Author Topic: A European Super League: The future of football?  (Read 6850 times)

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A European Super League: The future of football?
« on: February 12, 2019, 10:11:10 AM »
I thought there was a thread previously about this but I cant seem to find it..... Mods, feel free to move if necessary.

The BBC ran a video story about a potential European Superleague yesterday, although I'm not really sure where it came from as the chat about a European Superleague has died down again recently. Here's the link to the video:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/47177690

Personally, I think down the line I wouldn't mind if the Superleague became the format for the Champions League, but I would be dead against a closed off, European Superleague where you forego your own domestic season to take part.
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Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 06:24:19 PM »
So the teams that are in it and who will become richer for it should get to still beat up on teams domestically who don't get that financial windfall and are already at a massive financial disadvantage?

This is going to happen eventually and I think it would be net positive if done well.  The biggest thing for me is that there is still a pro/rel element to it.  If say At. Madrid or Spurs were to start out in it then they would need to actually perform or lose their spot, same as any other team in any other league.  Losing every game and becoming richer for doing so would make a mockery of the whole thing.

But ultimately I think this needs to happen so that the fans of almost every other team sans the top 20 richest teams in the world actually have something they can aspire to again.  Nowadays if you're a fan of Lyon or Valencia or Bayer Leverkusen what exactly is a successful season?  What can you realistically win?  Almost nothing.

I noted in the match day thread for this past weekend that Leicester have done an amazing job of turning over their squad and look like they are really building something.  They're making really smart moves with their money and have some real talent on hand.  What's their best case scenario?  They sell them all and start all over again?  What's even the point?  Their title win in 15/16 is the exception, not the rule.  And to think that everything will break their way again is from an odds perspective a pipe dream as Maddison, Barnes, Ndidi, etc will be long gone by the time they hit their peak.

From there it's all about sorting out the issues for the fans that have to travel much farther to away games.  These clubs are making so much money now that they could figure out a way to subsidize that if they wanted and that would be the hope.

Anyway, I'm sure it will be ruined by the owners greed but it could be a great thing for the sport and give renewal to a lot of teams that sorely need it.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2019, 06:27:30 PM »
Soon as it happens (which it is because thats where footballs been going since mid 90s) Im done
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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 06:29:27 PM »
Can't see PL teams wanting to do it. They make a huge amount from the PL + CL that I don't think a single European league would increase their revenues.

Plus fan anger would be that high that it would be a no go anyway.

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 06:32:59 PM »
Can't see PL teams wanting to do it. They make a huge amount from the PL + CL that I don't think a single European league would increase their revenues.

Plus fan anger would be that high that it would be a no go anyway.

They already know what they'll get paid and it's more than what they are now or they wouldn't want to do it.

Edit: Pretty sure the entirety of the top 6 signed the memorandum that was presented to UEFA about how things needed to change or they would leave.

Edit 2: It was 5 of the top 6.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 06:37:00 PM by BrandoLFC »

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 06:38:47 PM »
Said in the other thread, no fan of it at all.

However, for one minute, take your football supporter head off and try and imagine yourself as whoever runs the relevant sections in Sky or BT or an owner of a Top 6 club. Would you be happy to pay Huddersfield 200 million for what they have served up in 2 seasons? Same with Burnley and Newcastle. Fulham and Cardiff, over 100 million for this seasons performances? Look at the TV games on Saturday night and last night, Brighton V Burnley and Wolves v Newcastle? You'd want a shit load more than that for your combined 4.5bn wouldn't you? It's not good or right, but there are some ruthless people running these clubs.

Money will kill the top divisions. FIFA and UEFA have been taking the piss out of football for years, the power will evetually switch to the clubs if UEFA and FIFA don't sanction it.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 06:42:02 PM »
I can see the CL changing to something like the NFL. Still groups four, but play 16 (maybe not that many to start with) games mixing up various groups, then the top two from each group do quarters, semis and final. More guaranteed games, more guaranteed income. 

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 06:43:16 PM »
They already know what they'll get paid and it's more than what they are now or they wouldn't want to do it.

Edit: Pretty sure the entirety of the top 6 signed the memorandum that was presented to UEFA about how things needed to change or they would leave.

Edit 2: It was 5 of the top 6.

Yeah they want stuff to change with the CL make up, and are holding the threat of breaking away over UEFA's head, but that doesn't mean they want the super league.

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 06:51:02 PM »
Yeah they want stuff to change with the CL make up, and are holding the threat of breaking away over UEFA's head, but that doesn't mean they want the super league.

I think it would be naive to think they don't want more money and if it took a Super League to get it then that's ultimately what will happen.  The CL changes they want are almost the same thing as the proposed Super League.  Why is that?  Because it will get them more money.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 06:52:34 PM »
I think it would be naive to think they don't want more money and if it took a Super League to get it then that's ultimately what will happen.  The CL changes they want are almost the same thing as the proposed Super League.  Why is that?  Because it will get them more money.

I see little evidence just playing in a super league would bring in more money.

Bigger games, yes, but a lot less of them. The CL brings in less TV money than the PL currently does.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 07:02:52 PM »
I see little evidence just playing in a super league would bring in more money.

Bigger games, yes, but a lot less of them
. The CL brings in less TV money than the PL currently does.


How do you work that one out? ;D

A Super League of:

Liverpool
United
City (?)
Spurs
PSG
Bayern
Dortmund (?)
Moenchengladbach (?)
Juventus
Inter
Milan
Napoli
Madrid
Barca
Atletico
Spartak (?)

... is a big game every week!
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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 07:11:36 PM »

How do you work that one out? ;D

A Super League of:

Liverpool
United
City (?)
Spurs
PSG
Bayern
Dortmund (?)
Moenchengladbach (?)
Juventus
Inter
Milan
Napoli
Madrid
Barca
Atletico
Spartak (?)

... is a big game every week!
But "loses the magic" argument? Apart from the Super Cup, we haven't played Bayern since 1981. Not quite the same if we are playing them every year.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 07:26:08 PM »
Every time I see the words 'European super league' brought up in the media, be it a case in favour of introducing one, or how the top dogs at UEFA want to introduce it, I get an uneasy feeling that it isn't far off from happening.

It's probably not 100% accurate to say I'd be finished, but I know undoubtedly that I don't want to see it.
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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2019, 07:31:09 PM »
Uefa will expand the CL with 6 teams from the top 5 leagues and they will be a last 32 round thrown in and more cash.
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Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 07:33:24 PM »
I see little evidence just playing in a super league would bring in more money.

Bigger games, yes, but a lot less of them. The CL brings in less TV money than the PL currently does.

So they're doing this for nothing other than the principle that nobody wants to fucking see a Tony Pulis, Colin Wanker or Aitor Karanka led team on TV?

As I already noted I think they'll fuck it up regardless as they're looking at it from a money aspect and not a competitiveness aspect.  If they kept the pro/rel pyramid intact it could be pretty fucking cool and a win/win for all of the sport.

The domestic leagues are becoming more and more stratified with every passing year.  Unless you believe the value of broadcasting these games is in a bubble and will soon plummet this isn't changing anytime soon.  Otherwise without adapting to an American style of sports socialism then something does need to eventually change or all of the domestic leagues will eventually become a joke which is what people are saying needs to be avoided.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 07:34:34 PM »
But "loses the magic" argument? Apart from the Super Cup, we haven't played Bayern since 1981. Not quite the same if we are playing them every year.

It isn't us they are targeting though, nor the match going fans. Our Far East and USA supporters will have never seen us play Bayern and would love to see us play top teams every week. Skys next two Prem games are West Ham v Fulham and Burnley v Spurs. Now Imagine the interest if it was LFC v Barca, City v Bayern, etc etc. Imagine the money from flights, hotels, food and merch bringing in all the overseas visitors when the pesky match goers fuck off.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 07:39:44 PM »
It isn't us they are targeting though, nor the match going fans. Our Far East and USA supporters will have never seen us play Bayern and would love to see us play top teams every week. Skys next two Prem games are West Ham v Fulham and Burnley v Spurs. Now Imagine the interest if it was LFC v Barca, City v Bayern, etc etc.

That's in the UK though. Abroad most, if not all, of our games are shown live.


Quote
Imagine the money from flights, hotels, food and merch bringing in all the overseas visitors when the pesky match goers fuck off.

We, and every other club who'd be in the league, already sell out every single game anyway. Club wouldn't make money from the flights and hotels so makes no difference if they are coming from Munich or L1.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 07:40:10 PM »
So they're doing this for nothing other than the principle that nobody wants to fucking see a Tony Pulis, Colin Wanker or Aitor Karanka led team on TV?

You're selling it to me now.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 07:42:44 PM »
Soon as it happens (which it is because thats where footballs been going since mid 90s) Im done
My take on it too. Football's been chipped away at enough, this would just be the final straw for me. I love the English game, don't want it killed by this crap.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2019, 07:51:07 PM »
That's in the UK though. Abroad most, if not all, of our games are shown live.


We, and every other club who'd be in the league, already sell out every single game anyway. Club wouldn't make money from the flights and hotels so makes no difference if they are coming from Munich or L1.

Yes, so if you lived abroad, who would you wanna watch us play, Barca or Burnley?

As for the match, we already have a partner deal with Malaysia airways, so do some preferred partner deals with airlines, guaranteed income, same with the hotels - get people in for a few days rather than just Saturday or Sunday night. Club shop, get that filled up and away they spend. The marketing people will certainly look into the feasability of it all.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2019, 08:01:49 PM »
You're selling it to me now.

LOL, right?

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2019, 11:00:53 PM »
This is going to happen eventually and I think it would be net positive if done well.

But ultimately I think this needs to happen so that the fans of almost every other team sans the top 20 richest teams in the world actually have something they can aspire to again.

From there it's all about sorting out the issues for the fans that have to travel much farther to away games.  These clubs are making so much money now that they could figure out a way to subsidize that if they wanted and that would be the hope.

it could be a great thing for the sport and give renewal to a lot of teams that sorely need it.

Get your dirty hands off my sport.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2019, 11:04:49 PM »
Im surprised at how low our non-EU overseas income is when I looked at the accounts for 2017 and prior. 11m in 2017. Surely, we have a bigger market than that? Maybe thats why the top clubs are looking at other avenues for income, to tap those markets.
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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 11:05:00 PM »
If it happens, I'm done. It smacks of bullshit to sell the game to USA and China, and it can fuck off. If they don't like our sport they can make their fucking own.

I'd rather get relegated than play in a super league bollocks.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2019, 11:07:33 PM »
Get your dirty hands off my sport.

Hah.  I guess selling out to the Russians and Oil states is working out well for you.  Though I suppose when the other choice is accepted hegemony like Bayern has in Germany then it's just one form of evil vs. another right?

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2019, 11:08:10 PM »
I'd rather get relegated than play in a super league bollocks.
100% with you.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2019, 11:11:38 PM »
I think my first memory of football that I can actually remember was talk of this in about 1995 when Blackburn were playing in the CL
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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2019, 11:12:18 PM »
If it happens, I'm done. It smacks of bullshit to sell the game to USA and China, and it can fuck off. If they don't like our sport they can make their fucking own.

I'd rather get relegated than play in a super league bollocks.
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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2019, 11:16:52 PM »
Hah.  I guess selling out to the Russians and Oil states is working out well for you.  Though I suppose when the other choice is accepted hegemony like Bayern has in Germany then it's just one form of evil vs. another right?

We haven't sold out to the russians and slavers mate, those plastic Chelsea have. We're fighting the good fight and we might even win it.

You want us to join them in a breakaway and take the game even further away from the working man (or woman) so every single competitor is financially doped?

I bet you felt bad for Lance Armstrong and thought they should just give the rest of the riders steds as well.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 11:24:53 PM »
Think it might end up be something similar to the Euroleague in basketball, which is played alongside domestics league. Three quarters of the teams are in by default as "founding members" while the others spots are filled in by the winner of the "secondary" European trophy, the winners of certain domestic leagues (if they're not already in) or by wild card invitations.

It would simply be a new format of the Champions League, can't see any way in which those clubs abandon the respective domestic leagues.
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Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2019, 11:25:08 PM »
We haven't sold out to the russians and slavers mate, those plastic Chelsea have. We're fighting the good fight and we might even win it.

You want us to join them in a breakaway and take the game even further away from the working man (or woman) so every single competitor is financially doped?

I bet you felt bad for Lance Armstrong and thought they should just give the rest of the riders steds as well.

We as in LFC right?  The good fight in that we're part of the patriarchy that now leverage it to where we have a distinct advantage over almost every other club in the country to an almost comical effect.  Yes we're better than Chelsea and ManC in that we earned it but those days are long gone and the FA nor UEFA is going to change it.  So we play the same game even though you seemingly don't believe it.

And Lance Armstrong can fuck himself for all I care though you Brits had a whole team seemingly on the dope anyway.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2019, 11:26:14 PM »
Load of rubbish. Been touting it for years and it still hasn't happened. Used as a threat by big clubs to improve their bargaining positions with UEFA and their domestic leagues. Shite for the game.

If you think this is a good idea, you have no understanding of Liverpool as a club, and can only perceive football to matter insofar as it's elite players playing "entertaining" football in a pit of money.

This is just one step towards franchising. The "Liverpool Reds" enter the Super League. Three years later they're bought by Moscow and the club moves.

Also smacks of horrific self-interest. I have no love for some clubs in England but the idea that we'd basically leave them all to their own devices in a dwindling market, at a time when there's already financial pressure on clubs outside of the top flight, is the worst kind of self-interested capitalism. The club is for the fans. "Sorry guys, no more Merseyside derbies, we're done with this lot."
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 11:30:21 PM by JerseyKloppite »

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2019, 11:33:23 PM »
We as in LFC right?  The good fight in that we're part of the patriarchy that now leverage it to where we have a distinct advantage over almost every other club in the country to an almost comical effect.  Yes we're better than Chelsea and ManC in that we earned it but those days are long gone and the FA nor UEFA is going to change it.  So we play the same game even though you seemingly don't believe it.

And Lance Armstrong can fuck himself for all I care though you Brits had a whole team seemingly on the dope anyway.

Yes we're part of the upper echelons because we've been successful for the best part of 110 years, as have many other clubs along the way. 24 teams have won the first division and another 8 have been runners up, Sunderland, Villa and Everton have won it more/as much as City and Chelsea.

If you find the way we've been ran comical, I suggest you go support someone else in a league that's more suited to your viewing pleasure and stop trying to bastardise something that isn't yours. Shall we change kick off times to suit you too?

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2019, 11:35:18 PM »
It isn't us they are targeting though, nor the match going fans. Our Far East and USA supporters will have never seen us play Bayern and would love to see us play top teams every week. Skys next two Prem games are West Ham v Fulham and Burnley v Spurs. Now Imagine the interest if it was LFC v Barca, City v Bayern, etc etc. Imagine the money from flights, hotels, food and merch bringing in all the overseas visitors when the pesky match goers fuck off.


Ater 5 years surely this becomes ZZZzzzzZZZzzz. The only way up from there will be a league playing Sirius and Alpha Centauri A...

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2019, 11:35:49 PM »
If it happened I could see COLFC, FCUM and that having to expand their grounds a little bit.
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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2019, 11:39:30 PM »
I'd much rather see expatriated clubs than that.

Celtic and Rangers in England.
Benfica, Porto and Sporting in Spain.
Basel, Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV in Germany....

than that nonsense  :butt

If it means actually detaching completely from a domestic league, we absolutely shouldn't be in it. I'd rather win the PL without the other big clubs every year and lift the big ears than have to play all foreign clubs twice a season and only have one competition to play in with a ridiculous SuperBowl at Wembley each May with no FFP rules even pretending to exist so that Man City can spend 1 billion on any starlet. Hell no.

Ourselves, United and Arsenal could do with allowing Chelsea and City to leave for such crap though. Us three can run the Premier League ourselves and it'd work just fine as they (Chelsea and City) tried to get their already apathetic fans to fly to Rome or Milan every other weekend.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 11:44:14 PM by Linudden »

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2019, 11:39:39 PM »
Yes we're part of the upper echelons because we've been successful for the best part of 110 years, as have many other clubs along the way. 24 teams have won the first division and another 8 have been runners up, Sunderland, Villa and Everton have won it more/as much as City and Chelsea.

If you find the way we've been ran comical, I suggest you go support someone else in a league that's more suited to your viewing pleasure and stop trying to bastardise something that isn't yours. Shall we change kick off times to suit you too?

I think you're mistaken my friend.  Go read my first response.

As far as Everton, Sunderland and Villa surely you're either joking or have an intense hatred for Nottingham Forrest.

The club is moving along on it's own path towards what you view as a bastardization, you just have your eyes closed.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2019, 11:43:02 PM »
we have a distinct advantage over almost every other club in the country to an almost comical effect. 

The solution to horrendous inequality isn't to buy into a system that exacerbates and takes advantage of that inequality to screw everyone else over.

I'm not saying LFC are going to be some Robin Hood club, and we're always caught between trying to maintain the integrity of the club while competing against rivals owned by Oligarchs and Oil Tycoons but basically turning around to all the other clubs and saying "nah, we're too good for you now" is the worst example of arrogance. We've been back in the CL for two years and suddenly we're too good for the rest of the country.

The other reason this format won't work is that teams, clubs, players like winning. At the moment, players can win domestic titles in England, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands, Germany etc. Leagues, cups etc. A multitude of ways to earn plaudits, medals, to be remembered.

You bung all those clubs in one competition and suddenly you're in a place where every season, only one club out of Bayern, Real, Barce, Juve, City, us, Atletico, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Ajax, Porto, PSG, Lyon, Napoli etc etc can win a competition every year. You seriously think that all those clubs would take the risk of going years, maybe decades without meaningful silverware?

The system as it is is ideal in that regard. Big clubs all have a shot at two or three domestic competitions every year to keep the fans happy and engaged, whilst competing for one very prestigious competition in Europe as the pinnacle. The risk inherent in the change would be far too great.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2019, 11:44:25 PM »
I think you're mistaken my friend.  Go read my first response.

As far as Everton, Sunderland and Villa surely you're either joking or have an intense hatred for Nottingham Forrest.

The club is moving along on it's own path towards what you view as a bastardization, you just have your eyes closed.

I read your first comment. It said you think this is a good idea. Because it produces shinier games and we get to play other teams who have lots of money and shiny things in shiny cities? That's not what football is, what you're looking for is entertainment. Go to the movies.

Forest have won it once. Big ears twice though.

The club is doing it's best to grow and be global, because people from outside the UK want to be involved in the club and enjoy the football we play. My eyes are open. That's why we go play in stupid competitions in USA and China pre season at the possible detriment of our pre-season preparation. Money. But we do it because we need the money to compete in this league.

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Re: A European Super League: The future of football?
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2019, 11:45:10 PM »
Load of rubbish. Been touting it for years and it still hasn't happened. Used as a threat by big clubs to improve their bargaining positions with UEFA and their domestic leagues. Shite for the game.

If you think this is a good idea, you have no understanding of Liverpool as a club, and can only perceive football to matter insofar as it's elite players playing "entertaining" football in a pit of money.

This is just one step towards franchising. The "Liverpool Reds" enter the Super League. Three years later they're bought by Moscow and the club moves.

Also smacks of horrific self-interest. I have no love for some clubs in England but the idea that we'd basically leave them all to their own devices in a dwindling market, at a time when there's already financial pressure on clubs outside of the top flight, is the worst kind of self-interested capitalism. The club is for the fans. "Sorry guys, no more Merseyside derbies, we're done with this lot."

Yeah, I like the way the PL spreads the TV money in the current system. In a global capitalist world, individual TV deals would cause massive inequality, which would ruin the competitive nature of the league. Look at PSG in France. Surely, its a bit boring for even their fans with it being so easy for them. Man City have tried to do the same over here. If there was no FFP, you can guarantee theyd have spent far more than they have.
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