Author Topic: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP  (Read 41482 times)

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #560 on: April 16, 2019, 10:05:53 AM »
The club will argue that the person attending, should get the credit. And I don't see how anyone can argue that.
so if you canít make a CL game which you have the acs for and you canít make it you fall off the ladder, you think thatís fair?? Do you have kids etc where you can literally be in a situation where you could have gone before but not on short notice eg parents evenings and then like, so if you are unlucky and have to do your job as a parent you fall off??

So if you cannot make it last minute you are going to punished?
it depends how itís done, for the serial pisstakers (ie those who sign up for the CL acs but donít bother with the group games but want the loyalty for later games, more likely the domestic cups) they definitely should have some sort of process in there if a certain number/percentage are empty over a season (something like warning/notification then final warning then a ban for a certain period) id be fine with, getting into trouble for missing one game would be wrong and Iíd hope they wouldnít go down that road (couple of years ago I missed a game due to being in a car crash and if I got my membership suspended over that Iíd have been beyond livid for it being because someone drove into me on the motorway)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 10:15:38 AM by Lush is the best medicine... »

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #561 on: April 16, 2019, 10:21:35 AM »
So if you cannot make it last minute you are going to punished?

It's to stop credit hunting. If the club is going to deal with touting and credit hunting then occasionally innocent people will be under suspicion. It's difficult and the people trying to enforce it can't just take people's word.

How do they know whether you really couldn't make it last minute or had already decided in advance that you'd miss a few games just to make sure you had 19 credits next bulk sale? 
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Offline ChrisLFCKOP

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #562 on: April 16, 2019, 10:52:44 AM »
It's to stop credit hunting. If the club is going to deal with touting and credit hunting then occasionally innocent people will be under suspicion. It's difficult and the people trying to enforce it can't just take people's word.

How do they know whether you really couldn't make it last minute or had already decided in advance that you'd miss a few games just to make sure you had 19 credits next bulk sale?

I get where your coming from but I just don't get this mentality of missing a game if your fit and able too.  I have paid for something I am going to use it.

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #563 on: April 16, 2019, 11:31:01 AM »
So if you cannot make it last minute you are going to punished?
The red lines are being discussed at the moment. It will depend on the reason and proof I guess.

We currently have over 2k seats empty every game on average.
cyas

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #564 on: April 16, 2019, 11:32:08 AM »
If you contact the club to explain that there were mitigating reasons that you couldnít attend a game at late notice they wonít punish you.

If this happens 5 times a season in all the CL group games or for all the Cat C league games they might get a bit more suspicious.

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #565 on: April 16, 2019, 11:35:29 AM »
so if you canít make a CL game which you have the acs for and you canít make it you fall off the ladder, you think thatís fair?? Do you have kids etc where you can literally be in a situation where you could have gone before but not on short notice eg parents evenings and then like, so if you are unlucky and have to do your job as a parent you fall off??
You can't sell a credit twice.

We have to kill this whole credit hunting system. If the dates change and you can't go, then someone else who can will - and they deserve the credit.

IF you don't go, you don't get the credit. Yes I think it is fair.
it depends how itís done, for the serial pisstakers (ie those who sign up for the CL acs but donít bother with the group games but want the loyalty for later games, more likely the domestic cups) they definitely should have some sort of process in there if a certain number/percentage are empty over a season (something like warning/notification then final warning then a ban for a certain period) id be fine with, getting into trouble for missing one game would be wrong and Iíd hope they wouldnít go down that road (couple of years ago I missed a game due to being in a car crash and if I got my membership suspended over that Iíd have been beyond livid for it being because someone drove into me on the motorway)
We have argued the nuances referenced above, and I doubt that would see you be sanctioned. They aren't going to suspend your membership either, you will lose the credit.
cyas

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #566 on: April 16, 2019, 11:37:11 AM »
Except it’s not credit hunting and makes a total mockery of having an acs system, so does this mean you can only pass it on to someone who is a member, another flaw there, especially people who use a mates spare to get their kid to a game
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 11:39:05 AM by Lush is the best medicine... »

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #567 on: April 16, 2019, 11:43:08 AM »
Except itís not credit hunting and makes a total mockery of having an acs system, so does this mean you can only pass it on to someone who is a member, another flaw there, especially people who use a mates spare to get their kid to a game
Expecting to keep a credit for a game you didn't attend, so you can attend the next round is definetly credit hunting.

The club don't want you to transfer, they want you to sell it back to the club if you are not attending.
cyas

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #568 on: April 16, 2019, 11:45:49 AM »
Expecting to keep a credit for a game you didn't attend, so you can attend the next round is definetly credit hunting.

The club don't want you to transfer, they want you to sell it back to the club if you are not attending.

Don't agree Jack, if you can't attend in an emergency.  I've spent years building up my European credits.  Are you telling me I should lose out if I have a family emergency?
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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #569 on: April 16, 2019, 11:53:46 AM »
Comparisons made to music concerts etc. are not applicable. A music concert is a one off event.
Matches over multiple seasons that all contribute to each other are different entirely.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #570 on: April 16, 2019, 11:54:41 AM »
Expecting to keep a credit for a game you didn't attend, so you can attend the next round is definetly credit hunting.

The club don't want you to transfer, they want you to sell it back to the club if you are not attending.
buying tickets/signing up for acs for games you have no intention of going to (or in the case of acs only the later rounds) is credit hunting, buying tickets/signing up for acs for games you intend to go to and can’t make later on and passing them on to a mate isn’t credit hunting at all

Don't agree Jack, if you can't attend in an emergency.  I've spent years building up my European credits.  Are you telling me I should lose out if I have a family emergency?
i suspect he’s in a position (like me to be fair) where things like that don’t affect him (not a dig there) and don’t cross his mind (like with me if it’s an evening game I can take the day off work or do a half day if I choose, don’t have kids getting in the way, losing out on your European credits because you were stuck in work late because the person coming on the shift after you quit/was sick/couldn’t be arsed would be totally wrong or your partner can’t get home until late and you can’t leave the kids alone
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 11:56:14 AM by Lush is the best medicine... »

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #571 on: April 16, 2019, 12:08:32 PM »
Don't agree Jack, if you can't attend in an emergency.  I've spent years building up my European credits.  Are you telling me I should lose out if I have a family emergency?
I agree, and we've stressed this with the club. We will have to see where they draw their line in the sand, as the flip is this could actually increase the amount of passing on instead of selling back, not decrease.

I wouldn't have parents evening down as a family emergency though.
cyas

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #572 on: April 16, 2019, 12:16:05 PM »
buying tickets/signing up for acs for games you have no intention of going to (or in the case of acs only the later rounds) is credit hunting, buying tickets/signing up for acs for games you intend to go to and canít make later on and passing them on to a mate isnít credit hunting at all
Why should you get the credit, over your mate?

i suspect heís in a position (like me to be fair) where things like that donít affect him (not a dig there) and donít cross his mind (like with me if itís an evening game I can take the day off work or do a half day if I choose, donít have kids getting in the way, losing out on your European credits because you were stuck in work late because the person coming on the shift after you quit/was sick/couldnít be arsed would be totally wrong or your partner canít get home until late and you canít leave the kids alone
Probably, I attend every game every week - so the idea of picking and choosing doesn't correlate with me.

However, we currently have 2000 people every week who aren;t even going to the hassle of passing the ticket on to a friend. Those tickets are UNUSED. Every game.

All I want is the person who uses the ticket, to get the credit. If you have an unforseen event meaning you can't go, then I wouldn't argue for sanction. But the constant passing of tickets around and hoarding credits has to stop. It has too.

Edit ; This is all good information to take back to the club, so please keep raising any issues you have.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:35:46 PM by Giovanni »
cyas

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #573 on: April 16, 2019, 12:34:21 PM »
Why should you get the credit, over your mate?Probably, I attend every game every week - so the idea of picking and choosing doesn't correlate with me.

However, we currently have 2000 people every week who aren;t even going to the hassle of passing the ticket on to a friend. Those tickets are UNUSED. Every game.

All I want is the person who uses the ticket, to get the credit. If you have an unforseen event meaning you can't go, then I wouldn't argue for sanction. But the constant passing of tickets around and hoarding credits has to stop. It has too.
and if your mate isn’t a member??

Re the 2k empties, I agree although there are many reasons - some are credit hunters with no intention of going (and you can probably find this out by checking how often their card is activated) so focus on those people as you have others who can’t make it for things like work, family, travel disruption (eg flights or train cancels), now if it was easier for members to return those tickets as opposed to the two week deadline that will help but that’s the main problem, people helping out a mate one or twice a season because they can’t make it isn’t that big an issue and definitely is a far lower priority than touts and credit hunters who don’t have any intention of showing up. As for the person who uses it gets the credit, how is that feasible to monitor outside of things like thumbprint entry (which would never get done, as discussed earlier here)? Some big wins to go to, mates sorting out mates every now and again isn’t anywhere near as big a win as the other two

Also the parents evening comment is in relation to acs which you sign up for in August not knowing what your plans will be a few months down the line

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #574 on: April 16, 2019, 12:41:59 PM »
and if your mate isnít a member??
If you want to transfer, they will need a membership I think.
Re the 2k empties, I agree although there are many reasons - some are credit hunters with no intention of going (and you can probably find this out by checking how often their card is activated) so focus on those people as you have others who canít make it for things like work, family, travel disruption (eg flights or train cancels), now if it was easier for members to return those tickets as opposed to the two week deadline that will help but thatís the main problem, people helping out a mate one or twice a season because they canít make it isnít that big an issue and definitely is a far lower priority than touts and credit hunters who donít have any intention of showing up.
The two week deadline and 25% admin fee is going.
As for the person who uses it gets the credit, how is that feasible to monitor outside of things like thumbprint entry (which would never get done, as discussed earlier here)? Some big wins to go to, mates sorting out mates every now and again isnít anywhere near as big a win as the other two
It will absolutely not be ID based. This is my biggest gripe with the current plans, as most will just continue passing on instead of selling back and losing the credit unless they get draconian on checks, and that is the last thing I want.
Also the parents evening comment is in relation to acs which you sign up for in August not knowing what your plans will be a few months down the line
It's no different to buying 10 games in June - easier actually as the dates are already set before you pay. If your plans change and you can't attend, you can't attend. So sell it back so someone who can attend, can attend.
cyas

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #575 on: April 16, 2019, 12:44:48 PM »
It's no different to buying 10 games in June - easier actually as the dates are already set before you pay. If your plans change and you can't attend, you can't attend. So sell it back so someone who can attend, can attend.

You can't sell an ACS seat back can you? Or if you can, you'd be off the ACS I assume?
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Offline ChrisLFCKOP

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #576 on: April 16, 2019, 12:49:10 PM »
You can't sell an ACS seat back can you? Or if you can, you'd be off the ACS I assume?

Which is where it will fall down, esp for European ACS.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #577 on: April 16, 2019, 12:50:50 PM »
I agree, and we've stressed this with the club. We will have to see where they draw their line in the sand, as the flip is this could actually increase the amount of passing on instead of selling back, not decrease.

I wouldn't have parents evening down as a family emergency though.

Well it will increase the passing on - because that is what I will do.   I didn't go to the Bayern game because our Sam had a baby, and well she had to take priority.  Ben used my ticket.
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Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #578 on: April 16, 2019, 12:59:15 PM »
Well it will increase the passing on - because that is what I will do.   I didn't go to the Bayern game because our Sam had a baby, and well she had to take priority.  Ben used my ticket.
I agree.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #579 on: April 16, 2019, 01:01:17 PM »
Seen a lot of comments about passing to a friend etc. What constitutes a friend, and what about if said friend sells the ticket on, you as the card holder will be responsible.  Ppl are giving too much credit to touts VPNís wonít matter if every ticket is bought using the same bank card etc.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #580 on: April 16, 2019, 01:10:19 PM »
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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #581 on: April 16, 2019, 01:12:39 PM »
Seen a lot of comments about passing to a friend etc. What constitutes a friend, and what about if said friend sells the ticket on, you as the card holder will be responsible.  Ppl are giving too much credit to touts VPNís wonít matter if every ticket is bought using the same bank card etc.
friend is someone you know personally (as in in person not online), and if they sell it on then you should be in the shit, which is why I only pass on to people I know well, eg one mate has an ST with his wife but his son sits with her sometimes and I sort him out if I can

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #582 on: April 16, 2019, 01:21:16 PM »
1 If you want to transfer, they will need a membership I think.

2 The two week deadline and 25% admin fee is going.It will absolutely not be ID based.

3 This is my biggest gripe with the current plans, as most will just continue passing on instead of selling back and losing the credit unless they get draconian on checks, and that is the last thing I want.

4 It's no different to buying 10 games in June - easier actually as the dates are already set before you pay. If your plans change and you can't attend, you can't attend. So sell it back so someone who can attend, can attend.
1 can be problematic

2 that’s good

3 and you are right there

4 so it’s fair for people who fall to the back of the queue after building up years and decades of loyalty for one event out of their control?? honestly you need to look outside your own experience here, yes there are pisstakers who need to get done (which I totally agree) but the majority aren’t, somehow I doubt the club will take season tickets off people who return over half their games back to the club, after all if they return their ticket they still have the ‘credit’ don’t they? The battle you are trying to fight there is a one not worth fighting as if they ever did try to impose it a lot of the loyal fan base will effectively be banned and the games will be ridiculously filled with tourists and the lesser games will be empty (esp if we start dropping off at some point which will happen), by that point the people who went to the likes of Northampton and Bolton under hodgson would have moved onto something else and it will kill the match going fan base to satisfy a minority who do/can prioritise going to the match, not all of us can revolve our lives around going to the match

As I’ve did before go after the likes of the touts which should free up a hell of a lot of tickets and things like people passing a spare to a mate won’t be an issue

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #583 on: April 16, 2019, 01:33:20 PM »
If you want to transfer, they will need a membership I think.The two week deadline and 25% admin fee is going.It will absolutely not be ID based. This is my biggest gripe with the current plans, as most will just continue passing on instead of selling back and losing the credit unless they get draconian on checks, and that is the last thing I want.It's no different to buying 10 games in June - easier actually as the dates are already set before you pay. If your plans change and you can't attend, you can't attend. So sell it back so someone who can attend, can attend.

Is the 25% admin fee decision confirmed?? I did hear them trying to do it so more ppl sell back to the club, didnít think it was confirmed

Offline nickyd186

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #584 on: April 16, 2019, 01:53:05 PM »
With the amount of people constantly checking online for returns. My suggestion would be everyone one can return a ticket online up till 4 hours before kick off and get a full refund (st holder get the percentage credited that match would be worth). Anyone then using someone else's card then loses it
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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #585 on: April 16, 2019, 01:56:02 PM »
Is the 25% admin fee decision confirmed?? I did hear them trying to do it so more ppl sell back to the club, didnít think it was confirmed
Not officially.
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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #586 on: April 16, 2019, 01:57:21 PM »
Is there not way to transfer your ticket to a mates card? This would make it easier to pass onto a mate incase of a emergency as they donít have to actually get your card.

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #587 on: April 16, 2019, 02:02:14 PM »


4 so itís fair for people who fall to the back of the queue after building up years and decades of loyalty for one event out of their control?? honestly you need to look outside your own experience here, yes there are pisstakers who need to get done (which I totally agree) but the majority arenít, somehow I doubt the club will take season tickets off people who return over half their games back to the club, after all if they return their ticket they still have the Ďcredití donít they? The battle you are trying to fight there is a one not worth fighting as if they ever did try to impose it a lot of the loyal fan base will effectively be banned and the games will be ridiculously filled with tourists and the lesser games will be empty (esp if we start dropping off at some point which will happen), by that point the people who went to the likes of Northampton and Bolton under hodgson would have moved onto something else and it will kill the match going fan base to satisfy a minority who do/can prioritise going to the match, not all of us can revolve our lives around going to the match

If you lose one credit for a champions league game its barely going to the back of the queue.
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Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #588 on: April 16, 2019, 02:06:06 PM »
If you lose one credit for a champions league game its barely going to the back of the queue.
Tbf it means you have no chance for the final and I think the ACS sold out on full credits this year so there's a big difference between 5/6 and 6/6

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #589 on: April 16, 2019, 02:21:22 PM »
Is there not way to transfer your ticket to a mates card? This would make it easier to pass onto a mate incase of a emergency as they donít have to actually get your card.
They are looking at avenues such as mobile apps for transfer but early stages.
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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #590 on: April 16, 2019, 02:21:47 PM »
Tbf it means you have no chance for the final and I think the ACS sold out on full credits this year so there's a big difference between 5/6 and 6/6
Fair enough.
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Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #591 on: April 16, 2019, 02:23:51 PM »
Fair enough.
The back of the queue is maybe a bit much, but especially for the CL the ACS is a big advantage

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HELP
« Reply #592 on: April 16, 2019, 02:37:17 PM »
4 so itís fair for people who fall to the back of the queue after building up years and decades of loyalty for one event out of their control??
Define out of their control. I've already said, if you have a legit unforseen event then I would not argue against you keeping your credit.

But if you decide you can no longer attend because you have other priorities, then I don't think you should keep the credit.
somehow I doubt the club will take season tickets off people who return over half their games back to the club, after all if they return their ticket they still have the Ďcredití donít they?
I assume will be sanctions for STs taking the piss.
The battle you are trying to fight there is a one not worth fighting as if they ever did try to impose it a lot of the loyal fan base will effectively be banned and the games will be ridiculously filled with tourists and the lesser games will be empty (esp if we start dropping off at some point which will happen), by that point the people who went to the likes of Northampton and Bolton under hodgson would have moved onto something else and it will kill the match going fan base to satisfy a minority who do/can prioritise going to the match, not all of us can revolve our lives around going to the match
Who is getting banned?

None of that paragraph makes sense. Especially..

by that point the people who went to the likes of Northampton and Bolton under hodgson would have moved onto something else and it will kill the match going fan base to satisfy a minority who do/can prioritise going to the match, not all of us can revolve our lives around going to the match
All I've said, is the person who attends the game should get the ticket.
As Iíve did before go after the likes of the touts which should free up a hell of a lot of tickets and things like people passing a spare to a mate wonít be an issue
Go after the touts too.

But I still don't understand why you think you should have the credit for your friend going the match.

The attitude about 'my precious credits' is a self perpeatuting myth. If people stopped credit hunting games they didn't attend, people would have easier access to tickets - credits would be spread fairly and accurately and thus the credit line would drop.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:41:12 PM by Giovanni »
cyas

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #593 on: April 16, 2019, 02:48:39 PM »
Why should you get the credit, over your mate?

Because his mate couldn't qualify for the game as they didn't have the credits to be able to purchase it. the fact they are given the opportunity to attend based on a regulars history and loyalty, should be enough. The regular shouldn't be penalised because they cannot make it at last notice or cannot go because the TV companies move it to a date that they are unavailable.  :butt

There are even situations now where premier league games are being moved to different weeks/months because of FA cup commitments, again out of the control of the supporter, yet we are pushed down the route of signing into a ACS scheme in July to be guaranteed a ticket. It's just nonsense what you're talking about mate, it really is.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:56:11 PM by Always_A_Red »

Offline RSoares21

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #594 on: April 16, 2019, 02:57:41 PM »
Because his mate couldn't qualify for the game as they didn't have the credits to be able to purchase it. the fact they are given the opportunity to attend based on a regulars history and loyalty, should be enough. The regular shouldn't be penalised because they cannot make it at last notice or cannot go because the TV companies move it to a date that they are unavailable.  :butt

If thats the case then you should ONLY be able to transfer your tickets to a fellow member and for 4+ games only to fellow members that would usually qualify. And if you don't have anyone that you know that qualifies members should get the same offer as ST holders and be able to release there ticket back to the club.

There's 19 home games. In order to get the knocked off the 1st set of sales in july you would need to miss 8 games. Unless you are VERY unlucky and have 8 emergencies throughout the season, giving away a credit is not that big of a deal.
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #595 on: April 16, 2019, 03:04:09 PM »
If thats the case then you should ONLY be able to transfer your tickets to a fellow member and for 4+ games only to fellow members that would usually qualify. And if you don't have anyone that you know that qualifies members should get the same offer as ST holders and be able to release there ticket back to the club.

There's 19 home games. In order to get the knocked off the 1st set of sales in July you would need to miss 8 games. Unless you are VERY unlucky and have 8 emergencies throughout the season, giving away a credit is not that big of a deal.

Exactly right and I don't have a problem with that. But that system / process is not in place currently so they shouldn't be doing spot checks to catch people out now in my opinion.

As others have said, it's not a massive deal with the PL, but in Europe or cup competitions where each game matters to the point that you can miss a final because of one game, it seems really for Giovanni to suggest that it's tough luck. One missed game/credit can affect your ability to buy games for seasons to come and the one credit passed to your mate or another member who also doesn't qualify is no good to them either. It's actually a completely brainless suggestion where nobody benefits. 

Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #596 on: April 16, 2019, 03:19:58 PM »
No, what is nonsense is expecting to pick and choose what games you can attend but keeping the credits.
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Offline Giovanni

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #597 on: April 16, 2019, 03:23:23 PM »
One missed game/credit can affect your ability to buy games for seasons to come and the one credit passed to your mate or another member who also doesn't qualify is no good to them either. It's actually a completely brainless suggestion where nobody benefits.
Except the person who actually attends the game.

Porto H sold out on 1 credit. So someone who went on someone elses ticket for Bayern, would now have two credits.

The overall credit line would come down - how many people do you actually think attend EVERY european cup game in a season?
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #598 on: April 16, 2019, 03:24:25 PM »
No, what is nonsense is expecting to pick and choose what games you can attend but keeping the credits.

Yeah because that is exactly what I was suggesting that people wanted to do.... :butt

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Membership suspended. PLEASE HE
« Reply #599 on: April 16, 2019, 03:25:34 PM »
Except the person who actually attends the game.

Porto H sold out on 1 credit. So someone who went on someone elses ticket for Bayern, would now have two credits.

The overall credit line would come down - how many people do you actually think attend EVERY european cup game in a season?

But they wouldn't have been able to buy the Bayern game on 0 credits