Author Topic: The 2019 Formula One Thread (Read 142254 times)

TepidT2O · « **Reply #920 on:** May 11, 2019, 10:38:42 pm »

Quote from: west_london_red on May 11, 2019, 10:29:05 pm

To be honest, I would disagree there. The narrative has been the Mercedes power unit is the best, I have never heard anyone say they had a weak aero package, just that it’s probably not as good as the Red Bulls.

Also, over the last 18 months or so the Ferrari’s have generally had the higher speeds in the speed traps and while that doesn’t conclusively prove anything it suggests to me that while the Mercedes was slower in a straight line it had to be faster around the turns because overall it has been faster then the Mercedes.

Struggling compared to red bull and Ferrari that is.

It’s intersting though. Everyone assumes that the high rake Newey approach is right. But Mercedes use a lower rake and have a great package.
I guess it’s difficult to change philosophy, but I’m surprised no one has tried.

west_london_red · « **Reply #921 on:** May 11, 2019, 11:04:07 pm »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on May 11, 2019, 10:38:42 pm

Struggling compared to red bull and Ferrari that is.

It’s intersting though. Everyone assumes that the high rake Newey approach is right. But Mercedes use a lower rake and have a great package.
I guess it’s difficult to change philosophy, but I’m surprised no one has tried.

The issue with imitating the Mercedes rake is that it’s very hard to know what else is going on under the car because it’s obviously very hard for other teams to see it and there might be something else there in the floor design that necessitates a high rake?

It’s also obviously harder to try things like a different rake when testing is so limited.

Darren G · « **Reply #922 on:** May 12, 2019, 05:46:15 am »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on May 11, 2019, 10:13:39 pm

Hmmm... although the narrative has always been that Mercedes were the ones to struggle with the aerodynamics.

I never though this could be true, but it was the meme for a few years.

Turned out the Mercedes were pretty good at everything. Not surprising really

Not really. The only aspect that Mercedes were considered flawed aerodynamically was that the car was bad in dirty air for a couple of years. Luckily for Mercedes they were very rarely in dirty air for that period as they were almost always miles out in front.

I think that for the past couple of years Red Bull have been considered by many to have the best chassis/aero package, but that was conjecture to an extent because we never got to see how they (Red Bull) matched up to Mercedes/Ferrari with equal engine power.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #923 on:** May 12, 2019, 07:21:46 am »

Quote from: Darren G on May 12, 2019, 05:46:15 am

Not really. The only aspect that Mercedes were considered flawed aerodynamically was that the car was bad in dirty air for a couple of years. Luckily for Mercedes they were very rarely in dirty air for that period as they were almost always miles out in front.

I think that for the past couple of years Red Bull have been considered by many to have the best chassis/aero package, but that was conjecture to an extent because we never got to see how they (Red Bull) matched up to Mercedes/Ferrari with equal engine power.

Which is exactly my point.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #924 on:** May 12, 2019, 08:15:45 am »

Traditionally though over the last few years Mercedes have been poorer round twisty circuits or at least certain sectors of those circuits. It would be unheard of for example for them to outperform Red Bull round corners 14 and 15 here. But they've done exactly that. Monaco up next is ominous.
Ferrari did okay in Baku but race pace was still shit. The corners there were hard braking 90 degree turns more or less aside from the castle section. I'd love to see a side by side of the Mercedes and Ferrari and see when they brake, how early they get on the power etc. I remember seeing something like that at Melbourne and the Ferrari was braking much earlier in comparison. The car looks so stable though.

clinical · « **Reply #925 on:** May 12, 2019, 11:12:30 am »

Isn't James Allison's speciality getting a great performance in slow corners? The new suspension is obviously working great for the mercs. Ferrari have even used an engine upgrade yet still behind. I know this track engine power isn't as crucial but the constructors could be over early this season.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #926 on:** May 12, 2019, 12:56:18 pm »

Blimey Hamilton has outscored vettel by over 100 points since spa last year.

RedSince86 · « **Reply #927 on:** May 12, 2019, 02:14:13 pm »

Great start by Lewis.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #928 on:** May 12, 2019, 02:18:25 pm »

And that's that. Wouldn't of been able to watch the whole race anyway

voodoo ray · « **Reply #929 on:** May 12, 2019, 02:19:47 pm »

vettel had a brilliant start. then locked up badly, and could have taken out his teammate too. quite a lot going on there.

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #930 on:** May 12, 2019, 02:29:38 pm »

I don't know why Martin brundle is crying over them letting them race. They aren't even racing Mercedes at this point so let them race each other at least.

Okay well dont let them race for a few laps then let him.pass for fuck sake!

voodoo ray · « **Reply #931 on:** May 12, 2019, 02:33:14 pm »

Quote from: Upinsmoke on May 12, 2019, 02:29:38 pm

I don't know why Martin brundle is crying over them letting them race. They aren't even racing Mercedes at this point so let them race each other at least.

it was losing them both time

all teammates are pretty close together at the moment which is not a good thing. makes it look like it's very much car and not driver

TepidT2O · « **Reply #932 on:** May 12, 2019, 02:43:43 pm »

Hamilton is killing Bottas here... what happens to his pace??

Beav · « **Reply #933 on:** May 12, 2019, 06:19:48 pm »

Dull race up front, Mercedes astonishingly dominant in a year that was supposed to be Ferrari's comeback.

Lewis had a great start, had the pace to keep it, especially at the restart, and that was it.

Verstappen had a good solid race, Ferrari kept falling over themselves again, a pretty miserable afternoon for them.

Looks like itll be an all Merc title battle, which is bad for the sport but what can you do when a team is just this good?

TepidT2O · « **Reply #934 on:** May 12, 2019, 07:07:24 pm »

Bottas pace was odd.

He was about 0.3-0.4 seconds a lap down on Hamilton throughout the race.

Totally at odds with qualifying where he was a good bit ahead.

What happened?

Daniel Cabbaggio · « **Reply #935 on:** May 12, 2019, 07:44:30 pm »

Mate sent me that, pretty cool

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/7HA71tYl640" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/7HA71tYl640</a>

TepidT2O · « **Reply #936 on:** May 12, 2019, 08:42:17 pm »

Incredible footage.

The footage of spa at the end of the film is even better I reckon...

RedSince86 · « **Reply #937 on:** May 12, 2019, 08:44:35 pm »

That video is stunning.

Some amazing camera wizardry on it.

What about that banking at Monza.

clinical · « **Reply #938 on:** May 12, 2019, 09:28:33 pm »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on May 12, 2019, 07:07:24 pm

Bottas pace was odd.

He was about 0.3-0.4 seconds a lap down on Hamilton throughout the race.

Totally at odds with qualifying where he was a good bit ahead.

What happened?

Ever since the days of Rosberg Hamilton favours set up for race rather than outright speed in qualifying. He's said as much before. Probably believes he can make up difference usually in qualifying just by being better. Hamilton straight line speed usually a bit down on Bottas.

Darren G · « **Reply #939 on:** May 13, 2019, 08:34:26 am »

Quote from: clinical on May 12, 2019, 09:28:33 pm

Ever since the days of Rosberg Hamilton favours set up for race rather than outright speed in qualifying. He's said as much before. Probably believes he can make up difference usually in qualifying just by being better. Hamilton straight line speed usually a bit down on Bottas.

complete nonsense.

Quote from: Tepid Sweet Sweet Transfer Jizz on May 12, 2019, 07:07:24 pm

Bottas pace was odd.

He was about 0.3-0.4 seconds a lap down on Hamilton throughout the race.

Totally at odds with qualifying where he was a good bit ahead.

What happened?

Brundle touched briefly on some kind of battery issue for Lewis during qualifying, so maybe that. It's very difficult to see Bottas being 6/10ths quicker without some kind of variable. Whatever the reason, Lewis was a league apart on race day. Bottas looked utterly pissed about his clutch issue at the start though.

clinical · « **Reply #940 on:** May 13, 2019, 09:46:50 am »

Quote from: Darren G on May 13, 2019, 08:34:26 am

complete nonsense.

Brundle touched briefly on some kind of battery issue for Lewis during qualifying, so maybe that. It's very difficult to see Bottas being 6/10ths quicker without some kind of variable. Whatever the reason, Lewis was a league apart on race day. Bottas looked utterly pissed about his clutch issue at the start though.

Haha well I was a bit drunk yesterday

. I'm sure he's said it before though.

RacerX34 · « **Reply #941 on:** May 13, 2019, 11:02:32 am »

Quote from: Tepid Sweet Sweet Transfer Jizz on May 12, 2019, 07:07:24 pm

Bottas pace was odd.

He was about 0.3-0.4 seconds a lap down on Hamilton throughout the race.

Totally at odds with qualifying where he was a good bit ahead.

What happened?

Hamilton didn't charge up the batteries enough for his final run in quali according to Brundle.

Edit: Hamilton said afterwards that they couldn't charge the battery properly after Q2, which meant they didn't get full deployment in Q3.

Funky_Gibbons · « **Reply #942 on:** May 13, 2019, 11:33:10 am »

Hamilton's first attempt in Q3 was ugly, he was all over the place and it would have been a big gap to Bottas whether he had full battery delpoyment or not.

After that the track seemed to evolve again an no-one got close to improving their first lap efforts, even Bottas was +0.6s compared to his first lap.

Qston · « **Reply #943 on:** May 13, 2019, 12:02:47 pm »

Hamilton absolutely bossed it yesterday. It felt like one of those moments where he was demonstrating to Bottas, yeah you're quicker this season, but I have got your measure. The way he put in the fastest lap and was so far ahead of the others on basic pace was the demonstration of that.

This title is Hamilton's to lose. no question.

Darren G · « **Reply #944 on:** May 13, 2019, 12:15:13 pm »

Quote from: clinical on May 13, 2019, 09:46:50 am

Haha well I was a bit drunk yesterday . I'm sure he's said it before though.

I've said worse under the influence.

On a side note, did anybody else hear the bit about Ferrari and Leclerc's race engineers thinking that he was on a one stop strategy and Seb's thinking that he (Charles) was on a two-stopper? No communication whatsoever. That team is a complete shit-show. If they had switched sooner on the two occasions when the driver behind was clearly quicker they'd have had a 3rd and 4th today. Binotto seems out of his depth at present.

clinical · « **Reply #945 on:** May 13, 2019, 01:45:14 pm »

How much bigger are the cars now than they used to be?

Is there much difference?

I hope in 2021 they make thee cars a bit smaller can't help but feel the size doesn't help with close battling. New Aero regs are a must. These changes aren't good enough.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/current-f1-cars-too-wide-for-overtaking-ricciardo-1020781/1399293/

RacerX34 · « **Reply #946 on:** May 13, 2019, 02:06:59 pm »

Quote from: clinical on May 13, 2019, 01:45:14 pm

How much bigger are the cars now than they used to be?

Is there much difference?

I hope in 2021 they make thee cars a bit smaller can't help but feel the size doesn't help with close battling. New Aero regs are a must. These changes aren't good enough.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/current-f1-cars-too-wide-for-overtaking-ricciardo-1020781/1399293/

740kg with the driver. 660kg without.

1988: McLaren MP4/4 - Wheelbase   2,875 mm (113.2 in)
     - Width 1,824 mm (71.8 in)

2019: Mercedes W10 - Wheelbase   3,726 mm (146.7 in)
- Width 2,000 mm (79 in)

clinical · « **Reply #947 on:** May 13, 2019, 02:29:34 pm »

Quote from: RacerX34 on May 13, 2019, 02:06:59 pm

740kg with the driver. 660kg without.

1988: McLaren MP4/4 - Wheelbase   2,875 mm (113.2 in)
     - Width 1,824 mm (71.8 in)

2019: Mercedes W10 - Wheelbase   3,726 mm (146.7 in)
- Width 2,000 mm (79 in)

Surely smaller cars would help racing?

RacerX34 · « **Reply #948 on:** May 13, 2019, 03:11:56 pm »

Quote from: clinical on May 13, 2019, 02:29:34 pm

Surely smaller cars would help racing?

Smaller, lighter, less aero.
Instead they get bigger and heavier, with more complex aero.

west_london_red · « **Reply #949 on:** May 13, 2019, 05:04:56 pm »

Quote from: RacerX34 on May 13, 2019, 03:11:56 pm

Smaller, lighter, less aero.
Instead they get bigger and heavier, with more complex aero.

I don’t think they need to be lighter as there is also a safety element in making sure the cars are not too fast that’s its dangerous and the easiest way to do that is making them heavier. They also need to carry a whole race worth of fuel. But definitely agree on the length, there’s almost a meter difference there which seems hard to explain. Also, the smaller a car is the less room to add all those aero devices which would be an added bonus.

west_london_red · « **Reply #950 on:** May 13, 2019, 05:11:09 pm »

Also there will be a Dutch GP from 2020, possibly replacing Spain or Mexico.

Beav · « **Reply #951 on:** May 13, 2019, 05:40:16 pm »

Quote from: clinical on May 12, 2019, 09:28:33 pm

Ever since the days of Rosberg Hamilton favours set up for race rather than outright speed in qualifying. He's said as much before. Probably believes he can make up difference usually in qualifying just by being better. Hamilton straight line speed usually a bit down on Bottas.

Actually I think you might be confusing this with something Rosberg said, where he put the focus into race set up over qualifying for the 2016 season and almost didnt worry about qualifying.

Funky_Gibbons · « **Reply #952 on:** May 13, 2019, 09:24:34 pm »

Just read the story about the terminally ill boy who contacted Hamilton on Instagram, Hamilton mentioned him after the race. .

Mercedes flew one of their cars to his home and they're going to present him with the trophy Hamilton won. Very sad story but well done to Mercedes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-48258777

Darren G · « **Reply #953 on:** May 14, 2019, 05:47:27 am »

Quote from: Beav on May 13, 2019, 05:40:16 pm

Actually I think you might be confusing this with something Rosberg said, where he put the focus into race set up over qualifying for the 2016 season and almost didnt worry about qualifying.

I don't believe that talking about set-up though, but saying that his qualifying had suffered a little as he was putting so much of his energy into the racing itself:

When asked to explain his woes in qualifying this term, Rosberg said: "Part of it is that I worked on my racing.

"I wanted to improve that and that's definitely been better so I'm pleased with that.

"Of course that has slightly compromised qualifying, some of it but not most of it is explainable for me.

"I don't understand why it's such a big difference to last year at the moment."

The German insists that while his qualifying form is frustrating, it is not getting him down, and his performances in races are most important.

"It's frustrating in the moment, but I'll be firing on all pistons again and ready to attack," he said.

"It's not something that holds me down in any way, it's the way it is.

"As long as my racing is good I can turn around."

Upinsmoke · « **Reply #954 on:** May 14, 2019, 07:03:59 am »

Quote from: Funky_Gibbons on May 13, 2019, 09:24:34 pm

Just read the story about the terminally ill boy who contacted Hamilton on Instagram, Hamilton mentioned him after the race. .

Mercedes flew one of their cars to his home and they're going to present him with the trophy Hamilton won. Very sad story but well done to Mercedes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-48258777

Yeah I saw that. Poor kid. Nice thing for Mercedes and Lewis to do

Darren G · « **Reply #955 on:** May 14, 2019, 09:04:59 am »

Quote from: Upinsmoke on May 14, 2019, 07:03:59 am

Yeah I saw that. Poor kid. Nice thing for Mercedes and Lewis to do

Yeah, really nice gesture.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #956 on:** May 14, 2019, 09:22:51 am »

I saw the kid described as "a lucky fan" yesterday which I thought was in very poor taste.

voodoo ray · « **Reply #957 on:** May 14, 2019, 10:46:17 am »

Brundle coming in off his long run on his sky column today. 2021 sounds like it could end up another wasted opportunity.

paulrazor · « **Reply #958 on:** May 14, 2019, 10:51:04 am »

missed another race as i was at the match but giving less and less of a fuck

hard to justify spending half of sunday watching this

was it any use? might just stick to highlights on sunday night in future

Mr Mingebag Squid · « **Reply #959 on:** May 15, 2019, 09:49:56 am »

Granted the match was on and overlapping the GP - but the fact there was what a page or two about the GP weekend shows how dull this season has already become. Shame.