Author Topic: Chasing the Title  (Read 1093245 times)

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2018, 07:12:31 PM »
I was in the Main Stand at the weekend - probably my 7th visit in the past 12 months - and I noticed a more noticeable anxiety during the match compared to other games I’d been to. You don’t sense it when watching on tv but sat amongs fellow reds can be pretty excruciating at times.

It was strange given the flow of the game and Cardiff’s ineptitude across the 90 minutes. Any poor pass was greeted with moans, sighs and occasional intolerance. It grated on me as I felt it was all a bit too much. It was like sitting amongst neurotic headcases.

But I kind of get it. The sheer scale of the task to win the league is immense. Every single fan knows this. A 90+ point season is required and there’s such little room for manoeuvre. Perfection is being demanded and the team are delivering in a very impressive manner.

Keep with it people. Don’t lose your nerve.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #81 on: October 29, 2018, 07:13:40 PM »
You could do with putting this post in the other thread, I think this needs to be given a wider viewing.

I've split and merged posts from the Wrap thread. Some interesting debate.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 07:18:49 PM by Alan_X »
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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2018, 07:18:59 PM »
Good point - I'll move some of this across.

Thanks.

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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2018, 07:23:58 PM »
To be fair, there is next to no chance we can compete with City in terms of goal difference. Their underlying numbers both last season and this are significantly stronger than ours. In fact, if we got within 15 of them in terms of GD I'd be delighted.

Although they have had a relatively kind schedule so far, they're running at +2.5 xG difference per game! They take 22 shots per game compared to our 14. They have created 28 big chances compared to our 16.

Defensively they are pretty much impregnable, they only concede 6 shots per game compared to our 8 (which itself is incredible - we probably have the 2nd best defence in Europe).

Last season they finished with a 79 GD - 33 more than our total. Even if we concede about 10 goals fewer than last season and score the same number of goals, we'd still be 23 goals short of City's target from last season and their early numbers this season are even better than last season.

Basically they're a freakish outfit, probably the best team in Premier League history. If we win the league, it will take a large slice of luck and an absurd points total, but we won't go close to them on goal difference.

This is a cracking post and it kind of reinstates the huge challenge that lies before us if we are take the title. Taking the figures from last season above what is our best way of closing that gap, if we attack more, is that going to put at risk our new defensive structure?
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2018, 07:24:10 PM »

But I kind of get it. The sheer scale of the task to win the league is immense. Every single fan knows this. A 90+ point season is required and there’s such little room for manoeuvre. Perfection is being demanded and the team are delivering in a very impressive manner.

Keep with it people. Don’t lose your nerve.

Agree - we've had enough near misses and heartache in the past to know what it's going to take to get over the line in first. In fairness from my visits to Anfield so far the mood has been more of a calm air amongst supporters than in previous years when we've never been safe even with a 2/3 goal lead, but you can see why anxiety might creep in when a team pulls back to a one goal deficit. Put it down to scars from the past rather than lack of trust in this team.

At the moment the only important thing is continuing to collect points and making sure we are in the conversation still come March and April. Hopefully the rest will take care of itself.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2018, 07:25:24 PM »
When Spurs win tonight, our 4-1 win won't seem all that bad at all. ;) :D

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #86 on: October 29, 2018, 07:28:05 PM »
Thanks for starting the thread, interesting topic.

There is a lot of luck in winning the premier league title if you are not able to buy it. Chelsea and City have both spent enormous amounts of money in periods which saw them win the league with vastly more expensive squads than the competition and build longer term squads. Even so there have been seasons were not all the traditionally big teams have performed and its opened the door for other teams that make the best of what they have. Leicester would not have won the league, playing against last seasons city for example, so there was some luck in the timing.

So although I would love us to win the title this year, we are competing against a ridiculously expensive side with a good manager making the most of them. So its incredibly hard to compete. Klopp is doing a magnificent job and the longer we stay level or close to city the more exciting it will get.

As for the Cardiff game, I think too much is made of the fact that we didn't go for the jugular at 1-0. Cardiff may not be very good, but they have professional, fit players who basically sat back and touched the ball 30 odd times in the first half. That is so hard to breakdown. We had made a number of changes to the team in both defence and midfield, that along with the fact we had players that we could bring on and change the tempo is what should be celebrated.

I am excited by this team, we saw what they were capable of last year, this squad is better. Roll on Arsenal.


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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2018, 07:29:37 PM »
We can only do what we can do. Its going to be incredibly difficult to win this league over this City team but there is no way we should be moaning over a 4-1 win.

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2018, 07:44:56 PM »
Agree - we've had enough near misses and heartache in the past to know what it's going to take to get over the line in first. In fairness from my visits to Anfield so far the mood has been more of a calm air amongst supporters than in previous years when we've never been safe even with a 2/3 goal lead, but you can see why anxiety might creep in when a team pulls back to a one goal deficit. Put it down to scars from the past rather than lack of trust in this team.

At the moment the only important thing is continuing to collect points and making sure we are in the conversation still come March and April. Hopefully the rest will take care of itself.
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Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2018, 07:56:12 PM »
Still too early to think about goal difference. We are only 10 games in and City drew to Wolves, while we drew to City and Chelsea.

City still have to play Chelsea twice and more crucially, they still have to play us. So a lot of football to be played and it is still not out of our hands.

I think we need to be believers and believe in ourselves, rather than worry about what City do. We can't control what they do and the results they get anyway, except when they play us.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 07:57:56 PM by Mr_Shane »

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #90 on: October 29, 2018, 07:58:39 PM »
We're up against a monstrous, pumped up juggernaut.  With barely a quarter of the season gone and already every game is "must win".  We could hit 90 points this season and STILL finish second.  The margin of error is wafer thin.

There's no real shame in finishing second against financially doped opposition, but that's cold comfort to fans who have waited almost 30 years for a title.  City simply have to start making some mistakes, starting tonight.
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #91 on: October 29, 2018, 08:07:06 PM »
We're up against a monstrous, pumped up juggernaut.  With barely a quarter of the season gone and already every game is "must win".  We could hit 90 points this season and STILL finish second.  The margin of error is wafer thin.

There's no real shame in finishing second against financially doped opposition, but that's cold comfort to fans who have waited almost 30 years for a title.  City simply have to start making some mistakes, starting tonight.

Or we might get 88 and finish first

Why don’t people just wait and see? Every game isn’t must win, we’re not going to get 110 points. I’ve seen people saying if we want to win the title we absolutely must beat Arsenal. If we lose we’re still going at a rate that’s get us 90 points. It’s a long old season, all this crap about needing to do this and that doesn’t really help anyone at this stage.
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Re: Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #92 on: October 29, 2018, 08:07:57 PM »
This is a cracking post and it kind of reinstates the huge challenge that lies before us if we are take the title. Taking the figures from last season above what is our best way of closing that gap, if we attack more, is that going to put at risk our new defensive structure?

Not only that, but we run the risk of running our players into the ground. It seems like Klopp knows this and is managing the squad to handle this. In past seasons, he seemed more willing to let the team run wild for 90 minutes no matter the opposition. So far this season, you can see a difference in the way we play once we go a goal or two up. It's a long season and unfortunately we (and basically no other team in the world) have the squad depth to match City's, so players have to be managed.
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #93 on: October 29, 2018, 08:11:20 PM »
I was in the Main Stand at the weekend - probably my 7th visit in the past 12 months - and I noticed a more noticeable anxiety during the match compared to other games I’d been to. You don’t sense it when watching on tv but sat amongs fellow reds can be pretty excruciating at times.

It was strange given the flow of the game and Cardiff’s ineptitude across the 90 minutes. Any poor pass was greeted with moans, sighs and occasional intolerance. It grated on me as I felt it was all a bit too much. It was like sitting amongst neurotic headcases.

But I kind of get it. The sheer scale of the task to win the league is immense. Every single fan knows this. A 90+ point season is required and there’s such little room for manoeuvre. Perfection is being demanded and the team are delivering in a very impressive manner.

Keep with it people. Don’t lose your nerve.

The groans, moans and anxiety I think come from having for so long a goalkeeper and defence you dare not trust that we never feel safe with a one goal lead - I know I don’t. Every corner we concede still causes palpitations, ever stray pass a potential opportunity missed to score a second or third and reduce our collective blood pressures. It will take a long time for some of us to get that out of our system.

Offline Wingman

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #94 on: October 29, 2018, 08:50:20 PM »
I don’t know about you, but I watch football for the enjoyment of it. Sure, it’s more enjoyable when we win stuff but it’s just a game at the end of the day, no matter what Shanks once said.

I swear some of you don’t even enjoy it!

Offline robgomm

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2018, 09:02:33 PM »
Would be exceptional to overhaul a City side with all the depth you could want and a tremendous coach. If anyone can though it's us, we have the kind of solidity and attacking quality to pile up wins this season.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2018, 09:56:23 PM »
Would be exceptional to overhaul a City side with all the depth you could want and a tremendous coach. If anyone can though it's us, we have the kind of solidity and attacking quality to pile up wins this season.

We just have to keep going. This season, next season, season after that etc. We cant just have one season where we are good.

Offline robgomm

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2018, 09:58:27 PM »
We just have to keep going. This season, next season, season after that etc. We cant just have one season where we are good.

Totally, you look back on years we could've won it and there's not that many so you're disappointed when we didn't. But if you make sustained challenges the chances are you'll win it one year. We could do with getting that one out of the way though.  ;D

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2018, 09:59:49 PM »
Totally, you look back on years we could've won it and there's not that many so you're disappointed when we didn't. But if you make sustained challenges the chances are you'll win it one year.

Yep. When people moan about us always having an amazing side to overhaul when we are good should look at why we have to wait several years to become good. We should be title contenders every season.

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2018, 10:12:58 PM »
Feels like we missed an opportunity a few weeks back when City came to Anfield.

We will only play them once more this season in the league - and we'll deal with that when it comes. All we can do is focus on winning the next game.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #100 on: October 29, 2018, 10:20:28 PM »
I know for certain one of the few times in my life I will supporting the Mancs on November 11th they will get spanked. We really need a Mourinho sh*tehouse masterclass that day.
Our best hope is to stay in touching distance of City and see how the latter stages of the Champions League pan out and what injuries crop up for them in the spring time. If they go far in the Champions League that may effect their league form. It's clutching at straws a little bit given how well they're playing and their defence looking better than last season.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #101 on: October 29, 2018, 10:25:34 PM »
I don’t know about you, but I watch football for the enjoyment of it. Sure, it’s more enjoyable when we win stuff but it’s just a game at the end of the day, no matter what Shanks once said.

I swear some of you don’t even enjoy it!

Well said

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #102 on: October 29, 2018, 10:26:09 PM »
Feels like we missed an opportunity a few weeks back when City came to Anfield.

We will only play them once more this season in the league - and we'll deal with that when it comes. All we can do is focus on winning the next game.

Hardy a missed opportunity considering the run of games we had, the turn around and the intensity we needed to play in.


Offline Andy-oh-six

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2018, 10:28:58 PM »
Hardy a missed opportunity considering the run of games we had, the turn around and the intensity we needed to play in.



Exactly. The game has to be seen within the context of when we played them.
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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2018, 10:29:25 PM »
Hardy a missed opportunity considering the run of games we had, the turn around and the intensity we needed to play in.

It was tough considering the circumstances and the run of fixtures we had - but playing them at Anfield was a chance to land a sizeable blow and one of the two opportunities that we'll have to directly knock them back. The next one at the Etihad will be much harder as we all know.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #105 on: October 29, 2018, 10:38:35 PM »
It was tough considering the circumstances and the run of fixtures we had - but playing them at Anfield was a chance to land a sizeable blow and one of the two opportunities that we'll have to directly knock them back. The next one at the Etihad will be much harder as we all know.

It will be harder for them as well for us. They altered their style when they played here because they were afraid to get done on the break. I don't imagine that will change at the Etihad. It's not like their supporters make a difference on the atmosphere and on how they play.

Our strengths' don't automatically disappear just because we play them at the Etihad. Injuries permitting, we still poses the same threats that made them alter how they usually play.


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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #106 on: October 29, 2018, 10:47:37 PM »
It was tough considering the circumstances and the run of fixtures we had - but playing them at Anfield was a chance to land a sizeable blow and one of the two opportunities that we'll have to directly knock them back. The next one at the Etihad will be much harder as we all know.

We have had good victories away with worst teams in the past. There is no reason why we can't go there and win, Guardiola will actually have to play us toe to toe there, he won't get away with those tactics at home.
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #107 on: October 29, 2018, 11:01:38 PM »
Can't we concentrate one game at a time?!

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #108 on: October 29, 2018, 11:45:55 PM »
Feels like we missed an opportunity a few weeks back when City came to Anfield.

We will only play them once more this season in the league - and we'll deal with that when it comes. All we can do is focus on winning the next game.
We were a better spot kick away from losing that game so that point gained could be vital at the end of the season.

Hand on heart I don’t think we can overhaul them. They have an abundance of truly fantastic technical payers in the middle of the park and now Pep’s got his best defensive back 5 which someone mentioned earlier as being impregnable which is a spot on assessment.

All we can do is just keep winning and see where we are around Christmas time. Any team is capable of having a bad day but I think when inevitably injuries play their part, City will be able to cope with it a lot better than us and Chelsea.
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #109 on: October 29, 2018, 11:47:36 PM »
The thing with goal difference is that although it is possible that the title will go to goal difference (but pretty unlikely anyway), it is almost impossible for us to win the league on goal difference. Their style of play is built on destroying weaker teams while we have just found a way to not drop points against teams that play for a draw. I also find it unlikely that they'll get 100 points this season. The reason that they got so many points last year is because everyone else was shite but this year, there is better opposition from the rest of the top 6 (apart from united).
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #110 on: October 29, 2018, 11:49:37 PM »
It's funny, but I think the start we've had has ironically made us more nervous about our prospects this season, than a lesser excellent start would have.

The fact that we're performing so well gives us hope that this might finally be the season, and hope is a double-edged sword. Hope makes us fear plummeting to earth, even as it carries us aloft.

It doesn't make it easier when we have a team like Man City, which looks to have the early claim to be one of the all time greats in English football history, relentlessly plundering the points, even as we accumulate our highest ever 10 game total. It doesn't make it easier when teams like Chelsea and Arsenal, which are supposed to be in transition, are themselves having excellent starts.

At the end of the day, it's a competition contested by 20 teams. As well as we perform, other teams have the opportunity to outperform us. And there's nothing we can do about that.

I (and I think others) started the season with an ambitious but realistic target of 90 points for this season. That would be our best total in a PL-era season by 4 points, and would win the league in about 2/3 top flight English football since it went to a 38 game season.

I think that should still be our minimum target - anything extra would significantly increase our chances of winning the league, anything less will significantly reduce our chances of winning the league.

We're currently on target for about 98 points (rounded down). That's terrific. We should celebrate that and keep it going, game by game. That's really all we can do. The less we worry about our rivals' performance, the better.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #111 on: October 30, 2018, 12:07:53 AM »
I feel nostalgic for the good old days
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #112 on: October 30, 2018, 12:10:20 AM »
We still have a couple of gears to go up this season, what with our most talented signing not being fully up to speed yet.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #113 on: October 30, 2018, 12:47:03 AM »
Would be exceptional to overhaul a City side with all the depth you could want and a tremendous coach. If anyone can though it's us, we have the kind of solidity and attacking quality to pile up wins this season.

Crucially, we have a supporter base that has seen the perceived impossible done. Not so in the league but we know it's possible with enough momentum and belief. It's what drives Klopp because he's experienced it. He needs us to believe the same. That belief alone does not compute to 3pts every week but it gets the team through moments in games that can't be quantified.

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #114 on: October 30, 2018, 01:05:35 AM »
Klopp did it with Dortmund he will do it with us. They are beatable fuck them,we are not going to blink its them that lose their nerve after Christmas.
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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #115 on: October 30, 2018, 01:16:16 AM »
Klopp did it with Dortmund he will do it with us. They are beatable fuck them,we are not going to blink its them that lose their nerve after Christmas.

Lets win at the weekend and make sure we're in it ourselves by Christmas.


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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #116 on: October 30, 2018, 01:27:33 AM »
Last season felt like a party. This one feels like a deadly serious endeavour.
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

Offline jckliew

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #117 on: October 30, 2018, 01:39:09 AM »
The Arsenal game becomes very interesting.
My 12yr old son asked me: Is Blackburn a Racist name?

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #118 on: October 30, 2018, 03:24:18 AM »
I've spent the last 3 hours writing a multiple paragraph post about why this is not a black and white issue from almost every angle I can think of and I could probably write even more.  Since it would probably bore the majority of you I'll try to instead just sum this up in bullet points the best I can.

-ManC is the best team in not only the PL but also at the moment Europe.  From a statistic standpoint it's not even close.  The +2.x xG difference quoted earlier, there is no team in the world also above 2.0.  It's a big gap and it seems to be only growing.  ManC is better than last year and that's without De Bruyne for the majority of the season so far.  Here's a good stats bomb article by an Everton fan, so he's not a homer, going over some facets of their dominance - https://statsbomb.com/2018/10/guardiolas-manchester-city-is-breaking-the-premier-league/

-Does the above mean that what they've done through 10 games will hold true through game 38?  One the one hand no, obviously it's impossible to accurately predict the future.  On the other hand there is nothing indicative from 38 games last year through 10 games this year that there is any consistent negative blip upcoming.  Not to mention that outside of Aguero and Fernandinho it's a very young squad that should be together at least 2-3 years.

-Does that then mean that fans should be content with LFC being at best 2nd fiddle and just hope that ManC slips up but if they don't then there's nothing we can do?  There is nothing wrong with wanting your club to be the best while recognizing the challenges that lie in the way to get there.  In the end it may be impossible to overcome ManC in the next 2-3 years but we have to try and the club seems to agree with the spending on Keita and the attempted spending on Fekir which is where our biggest hole vis-a-vis ManC's squad lies.  Granted there is nothing we can probably do now for the 18/19 season but that doesn't mean we shouldn't always be keeping this in mind in order to keep in context how we are doing in relation to the ultimate goal.

-If you think like I do that we should do whatever we can to control our own destiny and not just hope that ManC underperforms because of how unlikely that is over 38 games then does that mean you'll look like an idiot at times saying performances or players aren't where they need to be?  Yes.  But that just goes to the previous point in wanting the club to win and again the club and Klopp are doing the same thing you are.  Noting where we are falling short and figuring out short and long term solutions.  Do I think Milner, Gini or Hendo are bad players?  Certainly not.  Would I take any of them over D. Silva, Bernardo Silva or De Bruyne?  No.  There's nothing wrong with admitting facts however tinted our glasses may be.

And even with all this said the gap between them and us is not that big as it is and while we are definite underdogs we are at least in the conversation unlike the pretenders in Chelsea or Arsenal who's underlying numbers in no way support them actually challenging us let alone ManC over a 38 game schedule.  WE CAN WIN THE TITLE THIS YEAR.  But if we don't then what?  Pointing out that not being complacent when up 2-0 at home in an eventual 4-1 win isn't being negative, it's talking about the gap between ManC and us because they sure as shit wouldn't be once Pep learned his lesson his first year about how muddying up games is a risky business.  It's talking about how spending 45 minutes against Southampton doing absolutely nothing could have cost us in another situation or how Napoli away better never happen again.  Those are the margins were talking about when going toe to toe with a ridiculous oil funded doping juggernaut.

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Chasing the Title, Chasing Manchester City
« Reply #119 on: October 30, 2018, 03:30:04 AM »
The Arsenal game becomes very interesting.

A team with defensive statistics in line with bottom half teams that only seems to play for 45 minutes at a time?  I'm serious, they aren't even the worst of the top 6.  They are worse than more than half the league at defending.  Anything can happen I guess over 90 minutes but unless something drastically changes it will eventually catch up to them and they'll need Spurs to drop out to make top 4.  They're not challenging us and if we play the way we can play come Saturday it should be a pretty solid win for us.