Author Topic: End of season round table debate (*)  (Read 54005 times)

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #320 on: June 2, 2015, 10:02:24 PM »
I have no problem with Rodgers staying. My biggest concern is that after 3 years there is compelling evidence that Rodgers simply cannot coach a competent back-4. The balance is just never right. And yet it looks like after the largely successful back-3 experiment, Rodgers wants to go back to the back-4.

If I knew we were sticking with the back-3, and buying some legitimate goal scorers to boost our attack, then I'd be feeling much more confident about next season. But if we persist with a back-4 the way Rodgers has been coaching it then we'll be seeing much of the same. 

Offline Raaphael

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #321 on: June 2, 2015, 10:05:09 PM »
With no standout manager available, if we sack Rodgers at this point, we're back to 12/13 all over again. Last season was massively disappointing, but I'm not surprised FSG are placing their faith in what we saw in 13/14 and giving Rodgers a bit longer instead of just accepting we have to hit the reset button.

Yeah, I agree. I wouldn`t replace him with anyone just to replace him. Still, I don`t think he has what it takes. If you manage to concede 6 goals against Stoke you will get killed in Europe against better tactical teams. It might be fun if we can duplicate a season like last year by scoring a lot of goals, but to concede that many goals is just naive.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #322 on: June 2, 2015, 10:06:19 PM »
And just like that, this thread loses all its greatness for a while

Locked for tidy up. Will reopen. If your post has gone look at the ones that came prior and then think "shit, my one liner or paragraph of lack of substance is gone and won't be missed"  :)

Edit: Reopened. If you want to post shit then kindly think twice about it. Again, you can have a viewpoint that doesn't have to be all positive and roses but at the very least make an effort to articulate it well. There are cracking mediums that allow you to express yourself in a shorter passage. It's a starred thread which you all know by now means it is being strictly moderated as quality over kneejerk replies are the order of the day  :)
« Last Edit: June 2, 2015, 10:21:36 PM by Harinder »
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Offline Keith Lard

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #323 on: June 2, 2015, 10:30:38 PM »
Very very happy that Brendan Rodgers is staying. He is the right man for the job and good things come with patience and longevity.
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #324 on: June 2, 2015, 10:49:32 PM »
The club has made its choice and we therefore need to re-unite behind that choice, Brendan's teams are notoriously slow starters and it may be if that start is particularly poor this debate will be revived and those on sabattical re-considered. At the moment it looks like we may have a team lacking Sterling and some others who have reached the end and there seems little doubt that Ings and Milner will have joined, with Benteke in the sights. More may follow, especially if money arrives for Raheem and, all-in-all, there just appear to be three huge gaps

1. Morale, on the floor after the season end and the loss of significant talent
2. Leadership, losing Gerrard is massive for a club like LFC
3. A striker, a world class striker, or two

How those gaps are filled, all effectively down to Brendan, will determine how this forum will vent over the next 6-12 months.
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Offline slaphead

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #325 on: June 2, 2015, 10:58:45 PM »
I have to say, I was unsure about what steps needed to be taken as the season end, but I find myself very pleased that Rodgers is staying. Time will tell if it's a brilliant decision or a really bad one. I would however like to offer this advice to Brendan, albeit from a man who knows naff all about managing a football club never mind a bloody massive one. Learn from your mistakes, be ruthless when you have to be and always out the football club before any agendas.
As for the season passed, what irked me was the ability to play so fluently at times and so woeful at others. But I feel characters and a bit more physicality in the team where it's needed can help eradicate that big space between the 2.
I love the football we played at times, and I love nothing better that fast, attacking football. I do however think we really missed a front man in the Diego Costa mould, someone who gets stuck right in,  but takes a chance when it comes along and has real ability.  I think we will add that this summer I really do.

Offline muyuu

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #326 on: June 2, 2015, 11:07:13 PM »
Putting the name calling of those that have a different perspective but have the club's best interest at heart I'm astonished at the numbers here that suddenly think things will change for the better without serious personnel/organisational restructure. Insanity.

Stop hiding behind the superfandom® cloak and admit your hubris is nothing more than dogma, blind faith or cultizm. The very real truth is that if Southampton accept our bid for Clyne I think we go to having THE MOST EXPENSIVE defense in Europe world football. Given it's more porous than an Aldi Earl Grey with no long term improvement after 3 years, I don't know whether it is laughable? a crying matter? I just dunno anymore.

Well, strap on your seatbelts and get ready for yet more superfluous voxpop hubris from Brendan just before defining games followed by more demoralising performances/defeats. I'm happy to support someone unconditionally if they show the signs of having the minerals (which I did for BR until the run of games after the 2015 United/Arsenal defeats). I still hate that we lost Rafa. This guy is no Rafa- maybe in future but not now. I don't think we have the time or the funds to just sit back and watch this experiment unfold. In fact most experiments have a hypothesis, a plan: what was ours again?


I'm hoping that since Rodgers stays, the workings of the TC/Ayre will change and possibly we will see a change in attributions. Honestly, after the Palace+Stoke games I thought it was unlikely that Rodgers kept his job and I thought that such a defeat meant he lost the players. We'll see what happens but I find it hard to be optimistic at this point. Our targets thus far are very underwhelming, the best of them being Milner.

Quite honestly, the club seems content outside of the top 4. We are not doing nearly enough to get back there and it seems we are a "par 5th to 7th" club now.
« Last Edit: June 3, 2015, 09:45:00 AM by muyuu »
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Offline greeny01

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #327 on: June 2, 2015, 11:20:44 PM »
Be interesting to see how this transfer window pans out now Rodgers is certain to stay...Milner and Ings will improve us, buts the links to Benteke worry me...have we not learned our lessons...he simply would not fit how we are/have been set up to play and that one big signing we make has to be spot on or we could really struggle again next year and I don't think Benteke is that player to lift us...Interesting times as now they have saved Rodgers they have to back him....we'll see

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #328 on: June 2, 2015, 11:20:56 PM »
I tell you one thing I hope they comprehensively improve: Stopping whoever keeps sending out these almost word-for-word leaks that the likes of Bascombe and Joyce have received

My guess is that Brendan has convinced them that purchase of a striker or two and we get back to the levels of 2013/14.

To be fair, as much as we need another forward, if BR can't sort out the defence next season, I think his time will be up come next June. He possesses 3 of the ten worst defensive seasons in Liverpool's history since Shankly's arrival. It's paramount that this area improves, as I think if the team becomes a cohesively stable defensive unit, then the team will be less panic-stricken and better equipped to follow the Paisley-era modus operandi of being able to score one and lock the door, if need be.



Great post.

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #329 on: June 3, 2015, 06:23:07 AM »
Just in looking at who they are targeting to sign, as far as we know, and the fact they are keeping Brendan makes me think FSG is setting this up to be either spectacularly successful or an unmitigated disaster within a couple of months in the new season.  None of the rumored signings are undervalued from a stats perspective so this would make you think this is all being pushed by Brendan whether that is true or not.  So we're going to spend around 50m pounds on 4 players that half the fan base already thinks are a bad idea and then if the team starts slow then what?  I hope I'm wrong but I think not only RAWK but the fan base in general will just get toxic after this past season we just had where everybody agrees the funds that were spent were grossly mismanaged.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #330 on: June 3, 2015, 12:21:42 PM »
I've just removed a lot of posts that don't contribute to the OP which is about Brendan and the last season. If the reports are true that the manager's position is safe, then I'll lock this excellent thread and start a new one about moving forward. What I don't want is "he's good he's shite" in here thanks.
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Offline hoganballs

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #331 on: June 3, 2015, 03:08:14 PM »
Not only was it an underwhelming season for ourselves, it was also an underwhelming season for the whole Premiership, with Chelsea winning the League at canter and the rest of the "chasing" pack barely mustering anything resembling a challenge. In truth, the English Premiership is only a B competition in terms of the rest of Europe, this was most clearly shown by the English sides abject failure in the Champions League. Chelsea for example, who were seen as completely untouchable and something approaching divinity in the domestic competition, were beaten by a very average PSG side who in turn where trounced by Barcelona. Where does that leave the rest of the English teams when the best they have to offer (Chelsea) can't beat a mediocre team like PSG?

Let's face it, the English Premiership is hyped up to be something it's not, and Sky are primarily the ones responsible for this.

Offline longtimered

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #332 on: June 3, 2015, 04:33:22 PM »
It was a poor season since 4th place was really there for the taking before United got their act together.
It would have made more sense to keep Rogers if changes were made to cover his weaknesses.The appointment of a Director of Football and Defensive Coach would have underpinned his abilities as an attacking coach with a poor track record in the transfer market.He has seen 6 transfer windows only one of which has been successful and a further repeat this summer can only result in a managerial vacancy by christmas.

Offline Filler.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #333 on: June 5, 2015, 11:34:52 PM »
I didn't see much last season tellywise, and managed to miss games that I would never have missed. Being a telly watcher puts me in a particular camp. Being a telly watcher who doesn't even manage to watch a number of games puts me in another.

I seem to be surrounded by Liverpool fans who seem to know the answer to all our ills. I don't come on here much anymore so I don't count you in, tho I'm sure its the same. Get a new manager is the the big cheer right now, which somehow unbelievably wasn't the call just some 12 months ago. Actually, to be fair, it was for long periods, but football fans, by and large, lets face it, are twats. Not just ignorant twats, but they just seem to think its ok to peddle things they hear on talksport or god knows where as if its there own thoughts.

There's no real logic or debate going on... nothing rational - just garbage emanating from mouths. Mouths that just seem to be surrounding me.

Get Klopp in ffs. It was the same when Rafa was here. Get Rafa out. Now get Rafa in. Fucking tedious. So fucking bored of it.

I just want to put some faith in our manager. Just for a bit longer than others would. Yes, just for the sake of it. That is my starting point. Forget the other season where we almost did the impossible and won the thing, forget that, that doesn't matter. It was all because of Suarez etc, you know the drill.

I just want, and need, to see faith in an idea given room to grow. I don't want a fucking new manager. I don't want to have to go thru this shit anymore with new managers. We've done that. What's a new manager going to bring anyway? A miracle?

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #334 on: June 6, 2015, 12:13:28 AM »
last season was in some ways payback for the luck we had till near the end of the season before we couldn't get a good decision going our way from the officials, none of this is an excuse though.

 On paper i feel most of the signings were sound at Southampton Lallana and Lambert dovetailed well all season. Didnt work out for us except i think one occasion although i still feel Lallana is a quality player and reminds me of Quasi.
Markovic one for the future then played out of position a big error for me, but i still think he will come good, Spanish Wbacks not settled yet and Glen muddied the water with those signings.
Can i think was the biggest error he needs to be in midfield and whether it was to accommodate others that he got shoved to a back three or WB it was a waste of his ability and at times a liability and it cost us, we screwed up on signing a decent striker that's for sure took gambles on Mario and Sturridges fitness which blew up in our face.
Lovren was the biggest shock we know fragile confidence comes into it, but he was well protected at the Saints and not here and he was undressed because of that.

We also had the management of Stevie to consider as well which was handled quite well by Brendan i feel.

in the end mistakes were made at all levels in this club and the fact that we made two semi finals and deserved to win one could be looked at a minor miracle, however i am very hopeful about all these young players being better and stronger for last seasons experience and this season we might see the real Markovic and Can making great contributions for us.

Finally that was last season now lets hope we can move on to the next one supporting the manager and the team 100% christ knows they might need it.

Shaqiri is an important member of the LFC Squad and a steal for the price we paid for him.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #335 on: June 6, 2015, 02:29:44 AM »
So if you asked me for my read of FSG's management style (and no one did), I'd say they want to keep their word to Rodgers 5 year contract (4 years work and a years severance) but have lost confidence in his current staff's ability to succeed in this environment (and someone's head has to roll).

They will bring in new coaching talent of their choice to augment training who will also be ready to step in and continue the season seamlessly should results fall below standards and they feel the need to wield the axe.

Hopefully the players will respond positively to the 'encouragement' of success.
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Offline sempi

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #336 on: June 6, 2015, 04:21:20 AM »
last season was in some ways payback for the luck we had till near the end of the season before we couldn't get a good decision going our way from the officials, none of this is an excuse though.

 On paper i feel most of the signings were sound at Southampton Lallana and Lambert dovetailed well all season. Didnt work out for us except i think one occasion although i still feel Lallana is a quality player and reminds me of Quasi.
Markovic one for the future then played out of position a big error for me, but i still think he will come good, Spanish Wbacks not settled yet and Glen muddied the water with those signings.
Can i think was the biggest error he needs to be in midfield and whether it was to accommodate others that he got shoved to a back three or WB it was a waste of his ability and at times a liability and it cost us, we screwed up on signing a decent striker that's for sure took gambles on Mario and Sturridges fitness which blew up in our face.
Lovren was the biggest shock we know fragile confidence comes into it, but he was well protected at the Saints and not here and he was undressed because of that.

We also had the management of Stevie to consider as well which was handled quite well by Brendan i feel.

in the end mistakes were made at all levels in this club and the fact that we made two semi finals and deserved to win one could be looked at a minor miracle, however i am very hopeful about all these young players being better and stronger for last seasons experience and this season we might see the real Markovic and Can making great contributions for us.

Finally that was last season now lets hope we can move on to the next one supporting the manager and the team 100% christ knows they might need it.


There was a line in last week's Echo (  End Of Season report on LFC ) Ballotelli missed a ridiculous amount of training sessions.  How the hell was Rodgers supposed to get the best out of such dross?

Offline poopscoop

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #337 on: June 8, 2015, 03:28:18 PM »
last season was in some ways payback for the luck we had till near the end of the season before we couldn't get a good decision going our way from the officials, none of this is an excuse though.

 On paper i feel most of the signings were sound at Southampton Lallana and Lambert dovetailed well all season. Didnt work out for us except i think one occasion although i still feel Lallana is a quality player and reminds me of Quasi.
Markovic one for the future then played out of position a big error for me, but i still think he will come good, Spanish Wbacks not settled yet and Glen muddied the water with those signings.
Can i think was the biggest error he needs to be in midfield and whether it was to accommodate others that he got shoved to a back three or WB it was a waste of his ability and at times a liability and it cost us, we screwed up on signing a decent striker that's for sure took gambles on Mario and Sturridges fitness which blew up in our face.
Lovren was the biggest shock we know fragile confidence comes into it, but he was well protected at the Saints and not here and he was undressed because of that.

We also had the management of Stevie to consider as well which was handled quite well by Brendan i feel.

in the end mistakes were made at all levels in this club and the fact that we made two semi finals and deserved to win one could be looked at a minor miracle, however i am very hopeful about all these young players being better and stronger for last seasons experience and this season we might see the real Markovic and Can making great contributions for us.

Finally that was last season now lets hope we can move on to the next one supporting the manager and the team 100% christ knows they might need it.



A fair synopsis of the season and signings. I agree with your assessment of Lallana he does have touches of Beardsley about him. Personally I think he's had a decent debut season, I know plenty on here disagree but I think he only gets hammered due to his price tag.
Can is the enigma here, he was a huge positive for the team when he slipped into the back three - but to then shove him out to right back was among the worst decisions made throughout the season. The man is a centre mid and a very competent one at that, I really didn't understand the logic when we have a number of fullbacks who could play that position. For my money, once the wheels had come off against Man U and Arsenal, Emre should have been moved into midfield in preparation for next season. In a midfield that contains at various times has included Joe Allen and Lazar Markovic, I find it difficult to comprehend that Rogers does not believe him to be a more positive influence in the centre of the park.
All in all, I think there were mind boggling tactical decisions made last season and some less than stellar physical conditioning, which I suspect resulted in the exits of Pascoe and Marsh. Maybe it was Brendan's choice to dispence with them, I'd like to think so, for if it was FSG who were behind the sackings, then I think that the team needs to hit its straps early next season or we'll have the unsettling tabloid merry go round of Brendan's being fired because of X, Y and Z.   

Offline markedasred

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #338 on: June 11, 2015, 02:41:11 PM »
So if you asked me for my read of FSG's management style (and no one did), I'd say they want to keep their word to Rodgers 5 year contract (4 years work and a years severance) but have lost confidence in his current staff's ability to succeed in this environment (and someone's head has to roll).

They will bring in new coaching talent of their choice to augment training who will also be ready to step in and continue the season seamlessly should results fall below standards and they feel the need to wield the axe.

Hopefully the players will respond positively to the 'encouragement' of success.
I will go along with your summary, and add the question, how much of that playing players out of position was enforced by injuries or how much by questionable decision making from the manager and his team?. If the decisions were questionable, will the new additions for the two vacant backroom posts contain someone who can question whacky/unsuitable positioning. This then is further complicated by not knowing how Brendan responds to a direct criticism of his choice of team layout. A bust up before a game between Brendan and either of the replacement two is a potential clusterfuck for the game. You see, FSG are unlikely to put someone in who overrules Brendan are they, so how do you appoint, and what power does each of the three then have?
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Offline jambutty

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #339 on: June 11, 2015, 02:54:49 PM »
I will go along with your summary, and add the question, how much of that playing players out of position was enforced by injuries or how much by questionable decision making from the manager and his team?. If the decisions were questionable, will the new additions for the two vacant backroom posts contain someone who can question whacky/unsuitable positioning. This then is further complicated by not knowing how Brendan responds to a direct criticism of his choice of team layout. A bust up before a game between Brendan and either of the replacement two is a potential clusterfuck for the game. You see, FSG are unlikely to put someone in who overrules Brendan are they, so how do you appoint, and what power does each of the three then have?
While I'd love to have an ear in FSG's office, my guess would be they want the new appointments to assist, advise and support Brendan, yet report directly to Gordon.

If true pros respond to pressure, that would be a good barometer.
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Offline MDougal

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #340 on: June 13, 2015, 07:26:57 PM »
Rightly or wrongly we have mostly been split into 3 camps, keep Rodgers, sack Rodgers, or keep him until one of the bigger name managers tells the world he wants to come and manage Liverpool Football Club.
To me it's not that important now as a group of fans where you or I lie in terms of that choice, the choice has been made by the owners and whether we like it or not they are i fact the owners and have that authority to make these decisions.

I think at this point probably the biggest decision to make is the structure of the club as I do genuinely believe with the finances we have got and have shown to be willing to spend irrespective of where it came from since these owners bought the club, we could compete at the top levels of English football with an outside chance of winning in Europe (which unless your name is Barcelona) is all you can really expect in such a demanding competition that the European cup is.

I don't profess that I know the workings of clubs around Europe but through observations simply with my own eyes you can see the plans the likes of  Porto, Sevilla, Lyon, have had to try to break into that top tier of European football but as these clubs are of smaller reputation than say Liverpool they have struggled to either make the impact at home in Sevilla case or Europe with Porto or Lyon, but the way they have set up their off field team to be in a position to sell then bring the next in line in to the club has allowed for success (certainly for Sevilla and Porto).

Now many people have talked of not becoming a selling club like these clubs obviously are and whilst I agree in principle there are 2 factors to take into consideration and they are the current position the club finds itself in where if you take the last 5-6 years positions in the league barring last year simply put us in the position of being liable to have our better players leave and secondly barring Real Madrid and Barcelona maybe Bayern everybody else are a selling club it just depends on supply and demand.

I really think if we can sort out the off field team (and this maybe something we never do under the current owners) we could look at the obvious example like Dortmund who have had success with that particular model of allowing the manager to get the best out of his players and a football man above him to coordinate the scouting etc to find the Lewandowski and Kagawa of this world, and with our undoubted name in world football with a level of success we would find it easier to keep the better players, but it is a case of having to start somewhere and if that means taking chances on players that have had success abroad and then repeating that success here it's my view we should look at that model and embrace it and not be scared of it, and accept from time to time while hopefully building the clubs name again we may lose the odd player along the way, we would be in a much better position to rebuild the block in the wall we had just lost.

For me the example we should look at and its not a knee jerk from the European cup final is Juventus.
Take when they were relegated yes they kept some very good players and yes the dip Milan have had since from where they were and Inter collapse from the treble they won, Juventus set along a path of choosing a style of play, choosing the type of player they would need to fulfil that style and taking the odd risk along the way (Vidal was hardly the household name he is now, Pirlo who was told he was too old to play at the highest level anymore and maybe most profitable for them in the long run taking Pogba and promising him first team football) which has now led to 4 successive titles and a European cup final.

Now no one will convince me we are in a worse off position to Juventus be it financially (especially with the tv deal etc) or in terms of the name and stature of the club, and certainly the English league is more desirable these days than Italy, so we could easily in my view put the club in a position to succeed with making the right choices now, and with the current crop of young players we have at the club, if we just took the shackles off and allowed ourself the odd older statesman with experience like Juventus did with Pirlo and take the odd chance with someone who has lit up a smaller European league but may be a risk like a Vidal was etc we in my view can put ourself in with a chance of success again.

To me that is the biggest hope that we have of turning round what the last 5 years has become and I just hope the current owners or Rodgers (less likely to be fair) decide to plan something similar.

Offline mercurial

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #341 on: June 13, 2015, 09:37:17 PM »
I would put my trust in Brendan as he has shown evidence of his ability to get results over last 2 seasons. Where did we end up before he came, 7th. He has given us 2nd and 6th place finish. Even that 6th is probably closer to 4th that we don't give credit for. Just like we do not give credit to Brendan but to Suarez. In March we were looking close to 4th and could have done so if only we had a striker.

In the end it boils down to just that, we did not have good strikers and the ones we did buy did not perform. Is brendan to blame for that? well maybe but then this season will give us more answers. To sack a manager based on one bad season is stupid. 62 points haul without a striker in the premier league is mighty difficult for any team. So it a bad season but it is a great season as well as it shows we can get 62 without strikers. So given good strikers can we not get another 10 points? I would wait to see the answer to this question before raising fingers at Brendan. Sometimes we probably think we know to much about football when we do not and especially cause we base it on derived knowledge we get from the digital pundits. It is like a layman expounding on sacking a CEO of a company. We do not know what it takes for that job and the technicality of it. We can only comment when results go badly for a couple of years but even then management changes are made before you chop the head. I think we are going through that phase of management changes and things do turn around if correct changes are made. Except that in football everyone thinks they are technical experts at evaluating the role of the CEO of which they have no fucking idea.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #342 on: July 2, 2015, 10:54:33 AM »
Not much bitching about FSG now, is there?

They've put their money where their mouth is, refused to buckle to the Sterling pressure and added more young players to our mix by stumping up the cash and getting the deals done early.

Makes a nice change.

Be nice if some of their big critics on here would give 'em a well done.  And if not, at least stay off their backs at the first sign of disappointment.
« Last Edit: July 2, 2015, 10:58:16 AM by jambutty »
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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #343 on: July 2, 2015, 07:43:06 PM »


In essence the manager was ultimately compelled to field a team without a striker for virtually an entire season

Nonsense: IIRC  Balotelli, Borini and Lambert were fit for the majority of the season.
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Re: End of season proper debate :FOR IN HERE ONLY (for now anyway)
« Reply #344 on: October 20, 2018, 07:54:34 AM »
Great post mate and the bit in bold is the killer line for me as an old arse that witnessed continuity succeed which even included a young Kenny.

My opinion from when I joined RAWK in 2006 has changed, I use to think we deserved a place at the top of the table, now I believe we have to earn it. Mismanagement, miss-spent funds, distractions and deviations have turned us in to a swamp of misfits.

Completely agree with your opinion mate.