Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[jillc]

Can someone explain to me the consequence of being de-selected and losing the whip?

It means they cannot represent the Tory party, but they can stand as Independents.

[redmark]

Can someone explain to me the consequence of being de-selected and losing the whip?

Cannot be the party candidate in a coming election. Hammond (for one) is going to challenge that.

[oldfordie]

Tory rebels given second chance to prove loyalty tomorrow before losing whip, says Leadsom

Andrea Leadsom, the business secretary, has signalled that the Tory rebels will not have the whip removed immediately. In an interview with BBC, she said that she hoped that the MPs who voted against the government would “reconsider overnight” and decide to vote with the government to defeat the bill tomorrow. Asked if they would lose the whip immediately, she said they wouldn’t. They would get a second chance, she said.

Johnson gives Tory rebels a extension.

[Snail]

Tory rebels given second chance to prove loyalty tomorrow before losing whip, says Leadsom

Andrea Leadsom, the business secretary, has signalled that the Tory rebels will not have the whip removed immediately. In an interview with BBC, she said that she hoped that the MPs who voted against the government would “reconsider overnight” and decide to vote with the government to defeat the bill tomorrow. Asked if they would lose the whip immediately, she said they wouldn’t. They would get a second chance, she said.

I hope that doesn’t affect anything tomorrow.

[Walshy nMe®]

I don’t want to sound thick, but could someone please explain like I’m 5, exactly what’s happened?

From my understanding as of tomorrow MP’s can propose a bill to take no deal off the table for good, and the government have no way of stopping it if this is voted in?

[TheShanklyGates]

Surely it's in Labour's best interests tactically to not back an election until an extension from the EU has been confirmed?

Passing the bill tomorrow is pointless if there's going to be an election before the 31st of October.

[Iska]

Johnson believes he'll win an outright majority by promising to leave the EU by 31st October, extrapolating from Peston. But do the polls support that?

Those polls are all academic now we’ve just seen the most incompetent government display in our lifetimes.  It’s the next poll that will be interesting.

If a GE is somehow forced Labour's absolute Ace card would be to switch leaders to Yvette Cooper. Suck on that huge, huge election defeat Boris 

Yup, that would change everything.  But sadly ...

[The North Bank]

Respect to those who put the country ahead of their careers. Not an easy decision to make.

Boris is turning out to be quite a little dictator, far more dangerous than the mumbling buffoon of the last few months.

[Red Beret]

They are fed up with being bullied by a same gang of thunderklunts. Might be the start of the tory's being able to cleanse their party of the far right loons.

That party is lost to the right. More likely it's the start of a formal split. I suspect Johnson's hoping to preempt that by packing cronies in their place.

[Statto Red]

It means they cannot represent the Tory party, but they can stand as Independents.

Means the Tories will have 294 MPs, means the opposition benches with all the other party's would have total of 297 MPs.

[TepidT2O]

Interesting line from Johnson tonight...

I will get a deal form Brussels even if it’s not on the 31st October... this seems to have been missed .... he’s just admitted he won’t get to leave then....


Hmmmm

[jillc]

I hope that doesn’t affect anything tomorrow.

I don't think they will. More and more stories are being shared at how angry the Government have made them. I have this vision of Cummings throwing Moggs across a room tonight.

[TepidT2O]

Means the Tories will have 294 MPs, means the opposition benches with all the other party's would have total of 297 MPs.

Don’t forget some labour MPs are very much Brexit loonies too

[bornandbRED]

Corbyn as PM will be a sight to behold.

[jillc]

Means the Tories will have 294 MPs, means the opposition benches with all the other party's would have total of 297 MPs.

Yep, no way he could push anything through with those numbers. Some really interesting days ahead now.

[RobinHood]

A Tory/BXP alliance has me worried, especially if they plan to not field candidates in the right seats as to not split their votes. Labour on the other hand have got the Lib Dem’s splitting their vote in half, and the LD increase largely being down to hoovering up dissatisfied Labour voters.

Right now Parliament has Boris by the balls, time to make the most of it.

[redmark]

I hope that doesn’t affect anything tomorrow.

Tory loyalist sat next to Clarke on Newsnight said the same, Clarke laughed at him.

[TepidT2O]

I don't think they will. More and more stories are being shared at how angry the Government have made them. I have this vision of Cummings throwing Moggs across a room tonight.

And Johnson got savaged by Corbyn... who would have ever seen that coming?

And Corbyn actually listened to labour voters.  Won’t do no deal and a public vote....

Weird times

[jillc]

Interesting line from Johnson tonight...

I will get a deal form Brussels even if it’s not on the 31st October... this seems to have been missed .... he’s just admitted he won’t get to leave then....


Hmmmm

This is Johnson's full statement.

 
Let there be no doubt about the consequences of this vote tonight.
It means that parliament is on the brink of wrecking any deal we might be able to strike in Brussels.
Because tomorrow’s bill would hand control of the negotiations to the EU.
And that would mean more dither, more delay, more confusion.
And it would mean that the EU themselves would be able decide how long to keep this country in the EU.
And since I refuse to go along with that plan we are going to have to make a choice. I don’t want an election. The public don’t want an election. But if the House votes for this bill tomorrow, the public will have to choose who goes to Brussels on October 17 to sort this out and take this country forward.
Everyone will know if the Rt Hon Gentleman is the prime minister, he will go to Brussels, he will beg for an extension, you will accept whatever Brussels demands and we’ll have years more arguments over Brexit.
And by contrast, everyone will know that if I am prime minister, I will go to Brussels, I will go for a deal and get a deal but if they won’t do a deal we will leave anyway on 31 October.
The people of this country will have to choose.
The leader of the Opposition has been begging for an election for two years.
I don’t want an election but if MPs vote tomorrow to stop the negotiations and to compel another pointless delay of Brexit, potentially for years, then that will be the only way to resolve this.
I can confirm that tonight we will are tabling a motion under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

[Zeb]

I don’t want to sound thick, but could someone please explain like I’m 5, exactly what’s happened?

From my understanding as of tomorrow MP’s can propose a bill to take no deal off the table for good, and the government have no way of stopping it if this is voted in?

Tomorrow MPs will try to begin the process to pass a law to force the prime minister to ask for and accept an extension to stay in the EU until 31st January. If EU offer a different date, Parliament gets 2 days to decide whether it wants to accept. If Prime Minister has passed a deal, no need for extension.

Government's best way of stopping it now is to waste time so it doesn't get through the Lords before Parliament shuts down. If it becomes law then Johnson would have to follow it or break the law. If he breaks the law then I think Parliament would first quickly legislate to remove his power to be involved in the decision so it happens without needing him. And then they'd remove him from office.

[Walshy nMe®]

Ah I get you thanks for explaining.

Seems progress has actually been made in this shit show.

[jillc]

Vicky Young at the BBC now saying the rebels will lose their whips tonight. I think the word is confusion......

[TepidT2O]

This is Johnson's full statement.

 
Let there be no doubt about the consequences of this vote tonight.
It means that parliament is on the brink of wrecking any deal we might be able to strike in Brussels.
Because tomorrow’s bill would hand control of the negotiations to the EU.
And that would mean more dither, more delay, more confusion.
And it would mean that the EU themselves would be able decide how long to keep this country in the EU.
And since I refuse to go along with that plan we are going to have to make a choice. I don’t want an election. The public don’t want an election. But if the House votes for this bill tomorrow, the public will have to choose who goes to Brussels on October 17 to sort this out and take this country forward.
Everyone will know if the Rt Hon Gentleman is the prime minister, he will go to Brussels, he will beg for an extension, you will accept whatever Brussels demands and we’ll have years more arguments over Brexit.
And by contrast, everyone will know that if I am prime minister, I will go to Brussels, I will go for a deal and get a deal but if they won’t do a deal we will leave anyway on 31 October.
The people of this country will have to choose.
The leader of the Opposition has been begging for an election for two years.
I don’t want an election but if MPs vote tomorrow to stop the negotiations and to compel another pointless delay of Brexit, potentially for years, then that will be the only way to resolve this.
I can confirm that tonight we will are tabling a motion under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

Ah missed because he didn’t say it then

What he does says is essentially that they will ignore any bill passed....

Which would be shocking.

[BobPaisley3]

A Tory/BXP alliance has me worried, especially if they plan to not field candidates in the right seats as to not split their votes. Labour on the other hand have got the Lib Dem’s splitting their vote in half, and the LD increase largely being down to hoovering up dissatisfied Labour voters.

Right now Parliament has Boris by the balls, time to make the most of it.

Yeah, Tories/Brexit would win if they followed that idea. You only need to look at the by election in Wales last month, Brexit took about 4K votes away from the Tories. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the Tories stand down in the north and hope Brexit can take Labour down. What happens next though? Back to Brussels for more talks?

[redmark]

I don’t want to sound thick, but could someone please explain like I’m 5, exactly what’s happened?

From my understanding as of tomorrow MP’s can propose a bill to take no deal off the table for good, and the government have no way of stopping it if this is voted in?

Today - opposition have voted to seize control of timetable tomorrow, to discuss and vote on...
Tomorrow - a bill forcing Johnson to seek an extension if a deal is not secured at EU summit 17th October and MPs don't then say "ok, let's leave without a deal (not happening)…

But - Johnson will seek a general election; first under Fixed Term Parliaments Act requiring 2/3 majority - Labour to oppose, as he could shift the date to post-31/10. Second, he could try to do so with a ludicrously simple bypassing of the FTPA (which calls into question the point of it), with a simple majority - but that is open to amendments. Finally he could table a vote of no confidence in himself, which might result in an election, but might lead to a Government of National Unity instead. And, possibly, cancel prorogation...

And... stuff.

[jillc]

Daniel Hewitt
✔
@DanielHewittITV


Winston Churchill’s grandson Nicholas Soames says he’s been told by the Chief Whip that tomorrow he’ll have the Conservative whip removed.

He also confirms on @BBCNewsnight he won’t stand at the next General Election.

[TepidT2O]

Interesting that this only happened as a result of them proroguing Parliament.

Thems the breaks eh?

[Yorkykopite]

And well played Jeremy Corbyn. Dare I say he listened to the advice of Tony Blair?

Now he should take up John’s suggestion, resign and intimate to his followers that they should vote for Yvette Cooper (or Hilary Benn) as his successor. Johnson would then be well and truly up shit’s creek.

[Zeb]

Surely it's in Labour's best interests tactically to not back an election until an extension from the EU has been confirmed?

Passing the bill tomorrow is pointless if there's going to be an election before the 31st of October.

It won't clear the Lords until next week at best. Think Monday is the intended day for the Commons to try and deal with amendments. Once you're past 10th/11th then the election won't happen until after the European Council meeting (emergency one is possible, I suppose) on 17th October. And unless Parliament isn't shut down then there's no time to legislate to reduce the legally required time for a campaign.

[Statto Red]

Vicky Young at the BBC now saying the rebels will lose their whips tonight. I think the word is confusion......

Ironic isn't it considering Bozo's hero is Churchill & he's about to kick Churchill's grandson Nicholas Soames out of the party. .

[redmark]

Rory Stewart won't stand for re-election.

[Trada]

If thats true Labour shouldn't vote for an Election and make them suffer vote after vote.

Evolve Politics
‏ @evolvepolitics
4m4 minutes ago

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has officially removed the whip from all of tonight’s Tory rebels.

The Tories are now a minority administration by -23 MPs.

[TepidT2O]

Rory Stewart won't stand for re-election.

Quite surprised by that...

[jillc]

Adam Bienkov

@AdamBienkov
·
9m


Government source: "The Chief Whip is speaking to Tory MPs who did not vote with the Govt this evening. They will have the Tory whip removed."

So Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is going to expel 21 Tory MPs, including two former chancellors and Churchill's grandson.

[Gerry Attrick]

There are going to be a lot of new faces at the next election, on both sides of the house.

[redmark]

Quite surprised by that...

Back to MI5 .

Big Tory majority (and without looking it up, I'd guess strongly leave), probably no point.

[Zeb]

Ah I get you thanks for explaining.

Seems progress has actually been made in this shit show.

No worries. I find it really confusing, and a bit annoying, when people talk about 'taking things off the table' when the reality is they're kicking the can for a few months too. If this goes right, and there's no solution by end of January, it's 'no deal' time again. And that will go on until we either sign up to the Withdrawal Agreement (and then spend years deciding what sort of Brexit we want) or revoke Article 50 or actually crash out.

[redmark]

Even Burgon is sounding almost coherent.

[oldfordie]

Interesting line from Johnson tonight...

I will get a deal form Brussels even if it’s not on the 31st October... this seems to have been missed .... he’s just admitted he won’t get to leave then....


Hmmmm

That is interesting. he's admitting he's talking bol.. when he says he can get a deal before Oct 31st. he doesn't look at it as a deal himself, he's demanding the EU drop the WA and we go straight into a FTA negations as pals. no deal, fancy allowing us to bring any old s.. into the EU m8. yeah no problem Boris, don't bother with all that boring red tape every country in the world uses outside the EU m8.

[Snail]

There are going to be a lot of new faces at the next election, on both sides of the house.

I worry that if the Tories win they’ll have gained some people from UKIP/Brexit Party and then we really are looking at a government on the far right of the spectrum. Those “moderates” will be replaced somehow.