Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[paulrazor]

So she's bringing it back for a third time!  Will the speaker allow it?

The woman is out of control!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47564793

2029

10 years after resigning as PM Theresa May travels to Brussels to discuss a deal

Prime Minister Simon Cowell "Looks its just easier to let her go over, its gets her out of the country for a few days"

Cowell meanwhile extended article 50 meaning the UK's brexit date is now 1/1/2030

Irish Taoiseach Roy Keane has been manning areas where borders may be erected keeping watch with a sledgehammer

[stara]

- Knock, knock.
- Who is it?
- The Brits.
- What do you want?
- We don't know.

[24/7]

Imagine some frothy-mouthed harridan wrapped head-to-toe in Union Jack-themed attire, screeching into a loudhailer outside HoC........

"WHAT DO WE WANT!!!!"

"errrr.............."

"WHEN DO WE WANT IT!"

".............."

[Dr. Beaker]

Bercow is a brilliant brave speaker. the ERG are throwing insults and smears at him and he's batting them away with ease. 
Imagine Rees-Mogg as speaker right now, we would be f...

He does seem to stick up for the 'little guy' for some strange reason - mind you, that is his job. I find him a little bit tedious. Loves the sound of his own voice, and has a very high opinion of his own cliche based oratorical skills and wit - but that's of secondary importance to him actually doing his job properly.

[24/7]

He does seem to stick up for the 'little guy' for some strange reason

Empathy

[ShakaHislop]

Just listening to McDonnell on Radio 4. Pretty clear that the only way a referendum happens is if 'remainers' refuse to vote for anything which doesn't have it as an option - so they're going to have to tell Jez to fuck off with his plans to renegotiate the political declaration unless it's ratified by a referendum. Sure Corbynistas will be understanding of that position... Is the route to a 'remain' and 'soft' Brexit majority to do something, in theory at least, so swings and roundabouts.

There's an amendment today from MPs against any thought of a second referendum which is worth watching. 114 signed up already, so that may be a testy one as it's 'soft' Brexiters of various shades plus headbangers.Lee Rowley MP has posted the current signatories.

Labour should have saved its time and money and waved the white flag in that Stoke by-election, letting Nuttall win, as Snell is barely less Brexity.

The Bryant amendment passing would be amazing.

[Zeb]

1 is going to kill any chance of a second referendum when it gets voted down.

May kill Tom Watson's attempts to prevent more defections to TIG if Labour's failure to support it tonight would suggest that to MPs.

[cdav]

Wonderful. Brexiteers rubbish the idea of a 'people's vote' saying you can't keep asking the same question until you get the answer you want. Then the government pulls this shit

But I thought it was the EU who kept asking a question until they got the right answer according to all Brexiters (see Lisbon treaty in Ireland et al)

[oldfordie]

He does seem to stick up for the 'little guy' for some strange reason - mind you, that is his job. I find him a little bit tedious. Loves the sound of his own voice, and has a very high opinion of his own cliche based oratorical skills and wit - but that's of secondary importance to him actually doing his job properly.

He sticks up for the backbenches, he always makes this point, he makes sure the backbenches have a voice, we live in a democracy not a dictatorship.

[24/7]

He sticks up for the backbenches, he always makes this point, he makes sure the backbenches have a voice, we live in a democracy not a dictatorship.

I think yer man was being a bit ironic - the whole thing about Bercow being somewhat diminutive

[Zeb]

Labour should have saved its time and money and waved the white flag in that Stoke by-election, letting Nuttall win, as Snell is barely less Brexity.

The Bryant amendment passing would be amazing.

Heh. Can't be many MPs who've fucked off the wishes of two parties they belong to at the same time.

Labour are whipping to abstain on the referendum motion. Not last chance to push for one by any means but still tediously dull given that the motion allows for precisely the scenario in which Labour said they would support a referendum.

[BoRed]

May kill Tom Watson's attempts to prevent more defections to TIG if Labour's failure to support it tonight would suggest that to MPs.

I doubt it. Even the People's Vote campaign are not backing today's amendment. Looks like a TIG attempt to split the Labour vote, but it seems to be backfiring. Hopefully they pull it before the vote.

[Wabaloolah]

1 is going to kill any chance of a second referendum when it gets voted down.

It won't as it's an amendment to a government motion.

[Wabaloolah]

I doubt it. Even the People's Vote campaign are not backing today's amendment. Looks like a TIG attempt to split the Labour vote, but it seems to be backfiring. Hopefully they pull it before the vote.

Alistair Campbell said it's the wrong time and they have formally come out against it now, hopefully it gets pulled, unless it's an attempt to see how the land lies and with Labour whipping it's MPs to abstain it's highly unlikely to succeed.  It would I guess give us an idea of where the numbers are for such a vote

Wrong to press @peoplesvote_uk amendment today when the issue is extension. I think wrong time and I fear the wrong reasons. Any doubts about that confirmed by @CarolineFlintMP support. PV is possible solution to current crisis not option within it. More PV opportunities ahead

[Wabaloolah]

Labour should have saved its time and money and waved the white flag in that Stoke by-election, letting Nuttall win, as Snell is barely less Brexity.

The Bryant amendment passing would be amazing.

I don't think that one has a chance, not if the ERG and DUP will back the deal.  Not sure the numbers are there to vote it down.  Would require Remainers like Ken Clarke to vote for the Amendment and I think he has already backed the PM's deal twice

[oldfordie]

I think yer man was being a bit ironic - the whole thing about Bercow being somewhat diminutive

I don't know to be honest, I think he's taking a lot of underserved s,.. for being biased and people are questioning his motives. arrogance being one of the criticisms.
Am really impressed by him as the ERG etc throw all sorts of accusations at him, many MPs would struggle to defend themselves but he comes back with a killer reply instantly.

[TheShanklyGates]

It won't as it's an amendment to a government motion.

I meant politically rather than as a matter of fact.

If this amendment goes down we'll be constantly hearing how the house has rejected the option of a second referendum whenever it is raised.

I hope it gets pulled.

[ShakaHislop]

I don't think that one has a chance, not if the ERG and DUP will back the deal.  Not sure the numbers are there to vote it down.  Would require Remainers like Ken Clarke to vote for the Amendment and I think he has already backed the PM's deal twice

Doesn't it suit them both if May's deal is killed off for good by this amendment, as it makes no deal more likely?

Some of the Labour Brexiteers (i.e Hoey) I can see voting for it too.

[Zeb]

I doubt it. Even the People's Vote campaign are not backing today's amendment. Looks like a TIG attempt to split the Labour vote, but it seems to be backfiring. Hopefully they pull it before the vote.

Point was that it wasn't but the moment that it looks to be true is when more splits will happen. Think aims of TIG, Lib Dems, and Nats on this are pretty upfront to be honest.

[Wabaloolah]

I meant politically rather than as a matter of fact.

If this amendment goes down we'll be constantly hearing how the house has rejected the option of a second referendum whenever it is raised.

I hope it gets pulled.

yes possibly, but the House has also rejected May's deal twice and rejected a No Deal Brexit yet all we hear from the dozy bitch is We must respect the will of the people yaa yada yada!

[Wabaloolah]

Doesn't it suit them both if May's deal is killed off for good by this amendment, as it makes no deal more likely?

Some of the Labour Brexiteers (i.e Hoey) I can see voting for it too.

rumours that they are coming round to the idea of her Deal, Foster not exactly saying that but dropping hints

[Red Beret]

Am I the only one beginning to have some doubts as to whether the ERG mob actually WANT to Leave? They love sniping from the sidelines and blaming everything on the EU, and claiming things would be better if went back to the days of Empire etc etc.

But some of them aren't stupid; they know that if we do leave then they would have to actually make things work; that there'll be no hiding place for them when the shit hits the fan, as it surely will do if we leave.

Rather like Corbyn, maybe they are only really good for sitting on the sidelines and snarking and causing disruption, and that all that fun will be over once we leave.

I can't help but think back to the ashen faces of the likes of Boris and Gove the morning after the vote when they realised that the thing they never thought could actually happen, had happened.

Could the ERG types actually be killing Brexit for their own ends, so they can go back to their comfort zone and resume the Statler and Waldorf acts?

Small hours musings; probably bollocks as old Coxy would say

I said as much a few pages back. I think because they've realised they can't get the Brexit they want they'd rather forget the whole thing, at least for now. But they cant be too obvious about it because it would ruin the credibility of their position (ha!) So they're being increasingly intransigent in the hopes the deal gets pulled and somebody else can take the blame for Brexit failing.

Problem is RoboMay seems hell bent on driving it through regardless.

[BoRed]

Point was that it wasn't but the moment that it looks to be true is when more splits will happen. Think aims of TIG, Lib Dems, and Nats on this are pretty upfront to be honest.

What do they want more, though - a split in Labour or a second referendum? I can't see them getting a second referendum if Labour splits.

[Wabaloolah]

I'm still of the opinion that the most likely outcome of this mess is that we won't actually leave and we'll have to revoke Article 50 in order to buy some time as the EU won't agree to a temporary extension.

What happens then is anybody's guess but I see no viable alternative to a second referendum unless the quietly let it die off following the Revoke.

I wouldn't 100% rule it a General Election, however, a solution though would very much depend on the numbers for the make up of the new House

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I would gladly do a little time if I got a chance to kick the shit out of this prick.


https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1106107260856647680


I would seriously fuck him up.

[Zeb]

What do they want more, though - a split in Labour or a second referendum? I can't see them getting a second referendum if Labour splits.

Labour's already split? Agree that Labour's vacillations to try and minimise the problem makes for the party being an easy pinata to beat on by the Nats etc. but then that's the consequence of not wanting to make a decision for so long. Tant pis.

[ShakaHislop]

rumours that they are coming round to the idea of her Deal, Foster not exactly saying that but dropping hints

Some of them might be of the view if there is no longer a withdrawal agreement on the table this close to exit day, then the EU will panic and finally cave in on the backstop.

[BoRed]

Labour's already split?

I meant if Labour remainers leave the party. Then there'd be no reason at all for the Labour leavers to back a second referendum.

[Wabaloolah]

I would gladly do a little time if I got a chance to kick the shit out of this prick.


https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1106107260856647680


I would seriously fuck him up.

Fucking hell, what a brown nosing prick

[Wabaloolah]

Some of them might be of the view if there is no longer a withdrawal agreement on the table this close to exit day, then the EU will panic and finally cave in on the backstop.

why would they panic? MPs have already said no to leaving without a Deal, May herself said she would not want a No Deal exit before yesterday evenings clusterfuck!

[Zeb]

I meant if Labour remainers leave the party. Then there'd be no reason at all for the Labour leavers to back a second referendum.

There is now? LabLeave will crack on regardless, there's another dozen who are happy to sign up to amendments to specifically rule it out, yet more will only agree to push for an extension if it's time limited to the end of June (and so ruling a referendum out by default). Can't even poke at Tory ministers abstaining on whipped votes because shadow ministers have been doing the same.

[Wabaloolah]

I meant if Labour remainers leave the party. Then there'd be no reason at all for the Labour leavers to back a second referendum.

if Labour remainers all left the party, Labour would no longer be the official Opposition, the'y'd be left with around 50 MPs, maybe a few more if Corbyn loyalists stayed with the party.

Labour is a mess, far worse than where they were at the time of the SDP split

[ShakaHislop]

why would they panic? MPs have already said no to leaving without a Deal, May herself said she would not want a No Deal exit before yesterday evenings clusterfuck!

But they've not yet agreed anything that would override us leaving automatically with or without a deal on the 29th of March.

I don't agree with them, but I do think there is still a belief among some Brexiteers that the EU may yet blink, which is why I don't think they're as close to giving up and voting for May's deal as others do.

[Sangria]

What do they want more, though - a split in Labour or a second referendum? I can't see them getting a second referendum if Labour splits.

Corbyn has been holding the Labour party together against a second referendum for two months. That's two months since the confidence vote failed that was supposed to trigger a campaign for a second referendum, as directed by the Labour conference (that the leadership boasts shapes party policy). It's now two weeks until Brexit day. Why would continuing to hold the party together help to push for a second referendum? Corbyn could have done so at any time in those two months, but he's still not doing so, thus ignoring the members. He is collaborating with May in wasting time and pushing default Brexit.

[filopastry]

I meant if Labour remainers leave the party. Then there'd be no reason at all for the Labour leavers to back a second referendum.

If Labour Remain voters leave the party, the party is fucked, completely and utterly, something they seem keen to ignore.

[BoRed]

Corbyn has been holding the Labour party together against a second referendum for two months. That's two months since the confidence vote failed that was supposed to trigger a campaign for a second referendum, as directed by the Labour conference (that the leadership boasts shapes party policy). It's now two weeks until Brexit day. Why would continuing to hold the party together help to push for a second referendum? Corbyn could have done so at any time in those two months, but he's still not doing so, thus ignoring the members. He is collaborating with May in wasting time and pushing default Brexit.

As has been said on this thread already, if there is to be a second referendum, the later the better.

[Djimothy]

The "peoples vote" campaign telling MP's not to vote for a second referendum today. 

[Kekule]

Every time I think I've got a handle on this I get lost again.  Brexiter MPs voting against Brexit, the government saying it doesn't want no deal and then voting for it and now people who want a 2nd referendum are saying they're not going to vote for 2nd referendum.

Is the house of commons now some sort of Turner Prize winning art installation?

[S.Red please]

Why is she pushing for a 3rd vote? Even with ERG and DUP on her side she would still need a hell of a lot more people to change their mind again. She will again be defeated. It’s a joke it’s even allowed while a 2nd referendum is made out to be some undemocratic bombshell that will tear the country apart. 

[Sangria]

As has been said on this thread already, if there is to be a second referendum, the later the better.

So when is he going to start the campaign to highlight the benefits of Remaining? He started the campaign for Leaving on the day of the result. Brexiters have been using his arguments ever since.

That is, of course, if you believe that he was campaigning for Remaining during the first referendum campaign. Which I doubt given his history before the campaign, given his actions during the campaign, and given his actions after the campaign.