Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
538 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 739

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 833910 times)

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24640 on: August 19, 2019, 06:01:48 PM »
Grim, if true.

Cancer Patient Tells LBC Hospital Fears Running Out Of Chemo Drugs After No-Deal Brexit

Quote
This woman being treated for breast cancer told LBC her hospital has told her to bring her passport in so they can prioritise who gets chemotherapy in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

Alison called from Upminster to reveal that what she read in the leaked government report on no-deal Brexit have a very personal aspect for her.

She revealed she is currently receiving chemotherapy, but has been told by Southend and Basildon Hospital that they will need to prioritise who gets the drugs if we leave the EU without an agreement.

Speaking to Maajid Nawaz, she said: "I've just had a call this morning to bring my passport in for prioritisation over the chemo drugs.

"They're being very honest and taking things into consideration.

"It's made me a little bit sad. The hospital said not to panic, but they're just saying they want to manage it.

"We sit there in our chemo chairs and have quite a nice pleasant time as much as it can be. We'll be sat there opposite each other today and tomorrow going who's going to get priority.

"Because I'm young and first time around, potentially they said I won't finish because my chemo is due to finish after Brexit day."

Maajid asked Alison how the leaked Operation Yellowhammer document made her feel when she read about shortages of medicines. She responded: "I did panic. My only hope is the chemo to stop it growing."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz/cancer-patient-hospital-fears-running-out-chemo/

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24641 on: August 19, 2019, 06:05:34 PM »
Grim, if true.

Cancer Patient Tells LBC Hospital Fears Running Out Of Chemo Drugs After No-Deal Brexit

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz/cancer-patient-hospital-fears-running-out-chemo/
It’s a huge issue.

We also belling to Euratom which supplies the radioisotopes used for radio therapy. 

Come the 31st Oct?  We don’t belong anymore.  The source of radio isotopes is then at great risk.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24642 on: August 19, 2019, 06:15:09 PM »
What about citizens who have never and have no intention of getting a passport ?
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline Riquende

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24643 on: August 19, 2019, 06:23:59 PM »
What about citizens who have never and have no intention of getting a passport ?

Oh it comes to Divock Origi... he's won the European Cup for Liverpool! The man who cut down Barcelona has taken Tottenham down in Madrid! And it's dreamland worrying times for Liverpool Football Club. Shame really.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24644 on: August 19, 2019, 06:25:35 PM »
Of course but can you argue that the election was not fair? The turnout may have been low but you can't argue with 68% voting for the president.  What you can argue against is someone declaring themselves president when they didn't even take part (Guaidó).

A proper liberal democracy does not just involve a majority or plurality of people installing a government. It also involves said government respecting the laws and constitution of the country. If a popularly elected government abolishes all further elections with popular support, is it still a democracy? In the ancient world, tyrannies start as popular movements, with the tyrant moving to suppress all opposition, often still with popular support.
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Offline Iska

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24645 on: August 19, 2019, 06:27:03 PM »
What about citizens who have never and have no intention of getting a passport ?
Those are the true brits who get top top priority.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24646 on: August 19, 2019, 06:33:44 PM »
Wouldn't the legal default need to be changed to 'revoke Article 50 on 31st October' for that to matter? Otherwise there's nothing there which isn't according to our constitutional arrangements as Parliament agreed to start the Article 50 process and everything which follows is a result of that. Whereas the assumption in all of that from Bogdanor and that Labour MP is that everything fails and doesn't matter because it can be quickly fixed after the fact.
But A50 has already been triggered, in 2017, following proper constitutional processes. Now it's just a countdown, absent any extensions.

We had this conversation some days ago, about whether constitutional processes have any effect on the A50 period elapsing and the treaties automatically ceasing to apply. I don't think we have much clarity on it. On the surface it seems like the government can force a crash-out by refusing to do anything further. I suspect the courts would have to rule on this for it to be any different
We do leave on Oct 31st unless our Parliament decides otherwise. am not certain if we could win any legal argument to rule any crash out by default as invalid but it's worth looking into it as we know Johnson tried to stop Parliament passing any legislation.
Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24647 on: August 19, 2019, 06:37:10 PM »
Makes perfect sense to try to reverse Brexit after leaving the EU if it can't be done before.

Have you been paying any attention? You can’t just ‘reverse’ it. It’s staggering to imagine any politician could be thick enough to think you just legislate to uninvoke Article 50.

Leaving the EU is like stepping off a skyscraper. Once it’s done, it’s done. You can hope you survive the fall and maybe climb back up despite the self inflicted injuries but you don’t just decide to go back up as you’re plummetting towards the ground.

To rejoin the EU after weve left will require the other 27 nations agreeing to let us back in. They may decide not to and there’s fuck all we could do. If they did it might take decades to get back in and all of the sweet deals we have will be gone.

And besides, Corbyn, Milne and McCluskey have no interest in getting back.
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Offline Just Elmo?

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24648 on: August 19, 2019, 06:45:40 PM »
To rejoin the EU after weve left will require the other 27 nations agreeing to let us back in. They may decide not to and there’s fuck all we could do. If they did it might take decades to get back in and all of the sweet deals we have will be gone.

Have to admit I would find it pretty amusing if Spain vetoed us getting back in...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 06:50:02 PM by Just Elmo? »

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24649 on: August 19, 2019, 06:48:03 PM »
Faisal Islam
‏Verified account @faisalislam
21m21 minutes ago

NEW: we have seen internal local authority No Deal planning document from up and down the country, basically those councils responsible for delivering public services including meals, and asked to by Govt to plan and assess risks - concerns standards wont be met, prices rise etc:


Faisal Islam
‏Verified account @faisalislam
9m9 minutes ago

Then North Tyneside Council on changing school menus “around available produce”, and eg “special dietary requirements may be difficult to meet”... “increased use of tins and frozen goods” as a mitigation - but No Deal is in red as a risk for its food provision: /3




Faisal Islam
‏Verified account @faisalislam
17m17 minutes ago

Eg North Ayrshire Council: officials “might need to amend school nutrition standards” to take into account price impact, and availability issues on fresh food - NB Scotland has more detailed standards than England & Wales /2






Faisal Islam
‏Verified account @faisalislam
4m4 minutes ago

councils have checked in with foodbanks about what they might be able to provide in No Deal - fear is that rising food prices will both lead to increased need, but also reduced donations. Eg Slough council asked its foodbank earlier in year, it said we rely on donations: /4

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 06:50:04 PM by Trada »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24650 on: August 19, 2019, 06:50:22 PM »
However, it has been established in the European Court that the UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50. And since Withdrawal is a process (not just a single point in time), it would seem logical (to me, at least) that the withdrawal process be made (or is required to be) in accordance with the UK's constitution (such as it is). Or, has it been established that invoking Article 50 is the end of the constitutional requirements as far as Article 50 is concerned?

As for the second part: you long ago convinced me that rejoining will be technically very difficult. And, I think, politically impossible for a generation.

The withdrawal agreement allows for a managed process after we have left. We leave on the 31st October 2019 not two years later.

All a no-deal does is remove the two year managed process.
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Offline Iska

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24651 on: August 19, 2019, 06:58:47 PM »
The ‘immediate end to free movement’ news today is interesting.  There’s no need for it, it backtracks on a promise, would be immediately economically harmful, and there are Tory MPs for whom not doing it is a key issue.  The conclusion must be that it’s a deliberate provocation to make sure No Deal gets blocked, without the government getting the blame?

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24652 on: August 19, 2019, 07:00:57 PM »
The ‘immediate end to free movement’ news today is interesting.  It backtracks on a promise, would be immediately economically harmful, and there are Tory MPs for whom not doing it is a key issue.  The conclusion must be that it’s a deliberate provocation to make sure No Deal gets blocked, without the government getting the blame?

Why must that be the conclusion, and not the more simpler and very much believable one that they're anti-immigration nutters who genuinely believe it's a good idea?

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24653 on: August 19, 2019, 07:04:13 PM »
The ‘immediate end to free movement’ news today is interesting.  There’s no need for it, it backtracks on a promise, would be immediately economically harmful, and there are Tory MPs for whom not doing it is a key issue.  The conclusion must be that it’s a deliberate provocation to make sure No Deal gets blocked, without the government getting the blame?
This has been my hope .....

But I’m not utterly convinced to the honest..
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24654 on: August 19, 2019, 07:14:18 PM »
The ‘immediate end to free movement’ news today is interesting.  There’s no need for it, it backtracks on a promise, would be immediately economically harmful, and there are Tory MPs for whom not doing it is a key issue.  The conclusion must be that it’s a deliberate provocation to make sure No Deal gets blocked, without the government getting the blame?

Electioneering too? Immigration is still a (relatively) big thing for voters Tories are pitching a lot of policies towards, whether they've moved Tory >Frottage or Labour >Frottage in recent years.

eg Surridge's breakdown using BMG data from March through May this year.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 07:18:16 PM by Zeb »
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Offline Iska

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24655 on: August 19, 2019, 07:49:41 PM »
Why must that be the conclusion, and not the more simpler and very much believable one that they're anti-immigration nutters who genuinely believe it's a good idea?
Because it harms their prospects of getting No Deal through.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24656 on: August 19, 2019, 07:54:17 PM »
Because it harms their prospects of getting No Deal through.

I don't see how it makes it any more difficult than it is already. I don't believe the number of Tory rebels will increase for example, as they'll cling onto vague promises of business visas and "Global Britain will maintain a flexible immigration system" type empty soundbites.

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24657 on: August 19, 2019, 07:58:26 PM »
Don't most voters think there is too much immigration? That also includes Remain voters as well.

Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24658 on: August 19, 2019, 08:00:30 PM »
That operation yellow hammer document...

Out of date of course...

The date on it?

Oh, 1st August.  That was like years ago...
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24659 on: August 19, 2019, 08:03:25 PM »
That operation yellow hammer document...

Out of date of course...

The date on it?

Oh, 1st August.  That was like years ago...

Faisal Islam wrote an interesting Twitter thread about the date of that document.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1162859157969670144

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24660 on: August 19, 2019, 08:04:56 PM »
What about citizens who have never and have no intention of getting a passport ?

I can’t help but think that if more people got passports earlier and used them we wouldn’t be in the situation we’re in now.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24661 on: August 19, 2019, 08:08:55 PM »
Why must that be the conclusion, and not the more simpler and very much believable one that they're anti-immigration nutters who genuinely believe it's a good idea?

Priti Patel is a fucking nincompoop. The idea that she can think two steps ahead is laughable. These are genuinely horrible people.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24662 on: August 19, 2019, 08:18:02 PM »
Don't most voters think there is too much immigration? That also includes Remain voters as well.

I don't know. What I do know is that most people have very little idea how much there actually is. A survey in 2016 showed that Leave voters thought about 20% of the population were non-UK EU Nationals. Remain voters guessed 10%. The actual figure was around 5%.

And areas with low immigration have the most negative view of immigration.

If you're asking 'are people hideously ill-informed and influenced by right-wing scare stories' my answer is yes.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24663 on: August 19, 2019, 08:18:19 PM »
We do leave on Oct 31st unless our Parliament decides otherwise. am not certain if we could win any legal argument to rule any crash out by default as invalid but it's worth looking into it as we know Johnson tried to stop Parliament passing any legislation.
But that's not what Ghost Town (and I) are arguing. We wonder if Brexit will be legal if the Government circumvents Parliament to achieve this goal (even if it just winding down the clock). If Parliament runs out of time because Remain MPs simply fail to get their act together, that's one thing. But what if, for example, the Government (transparently) prorogues Parliament to rob it of the ability to instruct the PM to revoke Article 50?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24664 on: August 19, 2019, 08:23:53 PM »
Because it harms their prospects of getting No Deal through.

Ending Freedom of Movement immediately and unilaterally effectively drives a coach and horses through the agreed Withdrawal Agreement.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24665 on: August 19, 2019, 08:37:44 PM »
But that's not what Ghost Town (and I) are arguing. We wonder if Brexit will be legal if the Government circumvents Parliament to achieve this goal (even if it just winding down the clock). If Parliament runs out of time because Remain MPs simply fail to get their act together, that's one thing. But what if, for example, the Government (transparently) prorogues Parliament to rob it of the ability to instruct the PM to revoke Article 50?

That would be an ecumenical matter...

I would guess that the UK's internal squabbles would be irrelevant to the EU. The question of whether a Johnson Government can stop the UK revoking Article 50 when it was legitimately voted through by Parliament is moot. The 27 EU states have had their fill of the UK fannying around while they commit economic suicide. We will be out, legally, as far as the EU is concerned.

If I was one of the 27 I would suggest that the UK has had 3 years to sort this shit-show out and one more monumental cock-up after three years of monumental cock-ups is not their problem.
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Offline Machae

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24666 on: August 19, 2019, 08:42:46 PM »
Ending Freedom of Movement immediately and unilaterally effectively drives a coach and horses through the agreed Withdrawal Agreement.

They've got something better lined up. Its gonna be huge, huge I tell you.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24667 on: August 19, 2019, 08:48:45 PM »
The ‘immediate end to free movement’ news today is interesting.  There’s no need for it, it backtracks on a promise, would be immediately economically harmful, and there are Tory MPs for whom not doing it is a key issue.  The conclusion must be that it’s a deliberate provocation to make sure No Deal gets blocked, without the government getting the blame?

I think it's just bluster to give them a boost in the upcoming GE.

The rabid foreigner haters will love it!!

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24668 on: August 19, 2019, 09:12:15 PM »
I don't know. What I do know is that most people have very little idea how much there actually is. A survey in 2016 showed that Leave voters thought about 20% of the population were non-UK EU Nationals. Remain voters guessed 10%. The actual figure was around 5%.

And areas with low immigration have the most negative view of immigration.

If you're asking 'are people hideously ill-informed and influenced by right-wing scare stories' my answer is yes.

Well considering that the vast majority of the public are as thick as pig shit, or racist, or both, then that answer is not surprising.


Offline Tepid T₂O

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24669 on: August 19, 2019, 09:20:59 PM »
Well considering that the vast majority of the public are as thick as pig shit, or racist, or both, then that answer is not surprising.


What utter crap.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24670 on: August 19, 2019, 11:10:37 PM »
That would be an ecumenical matter...
I like the Father Ted reference there. :)
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I would guess that the UK's internal squabbles would be irrelevant to the EU. The question of whether a Johnson Government can stop the UK revoking Article 50 when it was legitimately voted through by Parliament is moot. The 27 EU states have had their fill of the UK fannying around while they commit economic suicide. We will be out, legally, as far as the EU is concerned.
But, the 'illegal' decision would occur while the UK is still a member of the EU, so would not EU law apply?
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If I was one of the 27 I would suggest that the UK has had 3 years to sort this shit-show out and one more monumental cock-up after three years of monumental cock-ups is not their problem.
And that would be understandable. But not really relevant to the point am I am (probably poorly) trying to make here.

Offline stevo7

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24671 on: August 19, 2019, 11:31:38 PM »
Never liked Mark Walters

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24672 on: August 19, 2019, 11:58:36 PM »
If it helps with the Article 50 constitutional requirements discussion, this is how the CJEU's Advocate General summed up where the constitutional requirements fit into Article 50. (From the House of Commons' Library Briefing paper, written by Sylvia de Mars, senior lecturer on EU law up at Newcastle).

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Finally, the A[dvocate] G[eneral] stressed that a different condition of Article 50 TEU here has significant effects: as Member States can withdraw from the EU as long as they do so in line with their domestic constitutional requirements, this implies that a violation of domestic constitutional requirements could result in a notification of withdrawal needing to be annulled (para 104). A reference here can clearly be made to the Miller judgment: had the UK Government given notice without putting a bill before Parliament, this would have been in violation of the conditions set out in Article 50(2), and the Supreme Court’s ruling in Miller should have resulted in the UK withdrawing its notice to withdraw. This, according to the AG, made it clear that unilateral revocation of withdrawal was at least in some contexts possible. The same would happen if the notice to withdraw was filed on a correct constitutional basis, but that basis was later overturned— by, for instance, a referendum or a ‘meaningful vote’ or an election— which would again require a Member State to withdraw its Article 50 TEU notice (para 105) or would, in the alternative, force a Member State out of the EU when it no longer wished to leave (para 111).

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[Paragraphs] 146 and 147 suggested that while a Member State cannot be asked to explain why it changed its mind, it is subject to a time limit: revocation of notification to withdraw must be issued within the two year negotiation period that was started by Article 50 TEU or before a withdrawal agreement was formally concluded, as by that point the notification ‘had already taken full effect’.

It's the process which leads to the notification which is important and, having done that properly, out is out if we run out of time before revoking. 

edited: got Sylvia de Mars job title wrong.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 01:09:52 AM by Zeb »
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24673 on: August 20, 2019, 12:25:30 AM »
If it helps with the Article 50 constitutional requirements discussion, this is how the CJEU's Advocate General summed up where the constitutional requirements fit into Article 50. (From the House of Commons' Library Briefing paper, written by Sylvia de Mars, senior lecturer on EU law up at Newcastle).

It's the process which leads to the notification which is important and, having done that properly, out is out if we run out of time before revoking. 

edited: got Sylvia de Mars job title wrong.

according to the AG, made it clear that unilateral revocation of withdrawal was at least in some contexts possible. The same would happen if the notice to withdraw was filed on a correct constitutional basis, but that basis was later overturned— by, for instance, a referendum or a ‘meaningful vote’ or an election— which would again require a Member State to withdraw its Article 50 TEU notice (para 105) or would, in the alternative, force a Member State out of the EU when it no longer wished to leave (para 111).
Am confused, have I got this right, the AG is saying another referendum would over turn the triggering of ART 50? the referendum was advisory so has no legality in the UK parliamentary legal procedure.I would rather hear the opinion of the EU on this.
Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24674 on: August 20, 2019, 12:33:32 AM »
Am confused, have I got this right, the AG is saying another referendum would over turn the triggering of ART 50? the referendum was advisory so has no legality in the UK parliamentary legal procedure.I would rather hear the opinion of the EU on this.

It's just an example to show that countries can change their mind even after having made the notification. Our constitutional order is that Parliament authorises something to happen and the PM then does it. The 'meaningful vote' example is us really.

That's the person who advises the EU judges on how to rule on EU law saying that, although they don't have to take his advice they used it in big chunks to decide we could revoke without needing the EU's permission.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24675 on: August 20, 2019, 12:39:10 AM »
It's just an example to show that countries can change their mind even after having made the notification. Our constitutional order is that Parliament authorises something to happen and the PM then does it. The 'meaningful vote' example is us really.

That's the person who advises the EU judges on how to rule on EU law saying that, although they don't have to take his advice they used it in big chunks to decide we could revoke without needing the EU's permission.
Thanks, didn't know Cox advised the EU judges on EU law.would have thought it was the other way round.
So where does that leave us when it comes to the PM refusing to carry out the instructions of parliament by refusing to ask the EU for a extension.
Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24676 on: August 20, 2019, 12:52:09 AM »
Thanks, didn't know Cox advised the EU judges on EU law.would have thought it was the other way round.
So where does that leave us when it comes to the PM refusing to carry out the instructions of parliament by refusing to ask the EU for a extension.

Just clocked that the AG in the quoted text is ambiguous. It's not our Attorney General! Going to read it in his voice though now! The European Court has 11 neutral experts, called Advocates General, who look over cases and then give an opinion which the judges can take or leave as they please. In this case the judges took lots of it and used it in their judgement which is why it's relevant - at least in terms of a view from the EU.

Not sure there's an answer to Johnson refusing to seek an extension but to change the government? Assuming changing the law hasn't worked.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24677 on: August 20, 2019, 12:56:46 AM »
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.@SenSchumer - the most senior Democrat in the US Senate says he will oppose any US / UK trade deal that “undermines the Good Friday Agreement or facilitates the return of a hard border.”

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1163565078282670080




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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24678 on: August 20, 2019, 01:08:47 AM »
At least there are some grown ups left

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24679 on: August 20, 2019, 01:14:15 AM »
Just clocked that the AG in the quoted text is ambiguous. It's not our Attorney General! Going to read it in his voice though now! The European Court has 11 neutral experts, called Advocates General, who look over cases and then give an opinion which the judges can take or leave as they please. In this case the judges took lots of it and used it in their judgement which is why it's relevant - at least in terms of a view from the EU.

Not sure there's an answer to Johnson refusing to seek an extension but to change the government? Assuming changing the law hasn't worked.
Wondering what our AG was doing advising EU judges on EU law, :)
Am not sure how we stand if Johnson refuses to obey Parliament either but I think MPs have to prepare for any trick Johnson may pull while we have time, be silly to leave it till Sept.
Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.Ohh F.off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Ohh F. off Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.