Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1461615 times)

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21960 on: April 24, 2019, 01:23:07 pm »
I don't really like the term but I'd struggle to think of a better example of an "echo chamber" in TV form than Frankie Boyle's show. It's always been 100% left-wing with not even one token right-winger to act as a fig leaf of balance. It's made by, and for the Guardian chinstroker demographic who write or read articles which blame the vote for Brexit on, amongst other non-immigration related things, other left-wingers/liberals, yet do not have the self-awareness to realise that they are the section of the left that Brexit voters find most insufferable.

I mean, for FFS, it's a half hour left-wing soapbox on the licence-fee funded, and strongly suspected by Brexit voters to be left-wing/liberal biased, BBC, which clearly makes a point of having female and BAME guests on. It's like metropolitan/London-elite cliche bingo. All they need is a section about avocados and they'll have a full house.

At least The Last Leg has had a few Tories/ex-Tories on (even if they are of the more liberal wing of the party) but it, along with Boyle's show, clearly treat Corbyn/Labour with kid gloves in rare moments of criticism of them.

You could say it adds balance to the BBC coverage with programmes like the Andrew Neill so called witty late night show with choo, choo, or the likes of Marr programmes slanted totally to the right.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21961 on: April 24, 2019, 01:26:48 pm »
You could say it adds balance to the BBC coverage with programmes like the Andrew Neill so called witty late night show with choo, choo, or the likes of Marr programmes slanted totally to the right.

Funny, when people say something in here you disagree with you complain about it being an echo chamber.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21962 on: April 24, 2019, 02:32:16 pm »
Funny, when people say something in here you disagree with you complain about it being an echo chamber.

Any chance you playing the ball for once instead of the man , ok
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21963 on: April 24, 2019, 03:03:02 pm »
From Peston's latest blog

Quote
1) There will be an emergency meeting of Labour’s National Executive Committee on Tuesday to decide whether the party’s manifesto for the European Elections will contain a commitment that any Brexit deal should be put to a “confirmatory” referendum. Those pushing for the referendum - much of the parliamentary party, the giant GMB and Unison trade unions, MEPs - think they have the numbers, but they are NOT confident. It will be a huge moment

Quote
4) Both ministers and Labour frontbenchers tell me they will not be able to reach a cross-party compromise on Brexit that could see MPs belatedly approve a version of May’s deal. There are plenty of irreconcilable positions on both sides, but the most important is that the government cannot move far enough towards Labour’s version of a customs union. But the charade that the talks are serious and practical will probably be sustained till the end of the week, after discussions of environmental issues are concluded. But the reality is that the most intense effort on both sides is in working out how to protect themselves from the obvious recriminations.

When May’s attempt to forge a Brexit deal with Corbyn implodes, that too will be huge. Yogi Berra’s “it’s déjà vu all over again” was conceived for Brexit.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-04-24/as-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-with-jeremy-corbyn-face-collapse-all-sides-face-massive-choices/

Hard to see how Labour realistically continues to avoid committing to another referendum after the cross-party talks break down and the only Brexit deal in town remains May's "Tory Brexit"

I suppose they could call for another no confidence vote hoping there's enough angry ERGers and/or the DUP willing to vote with them but if that fails, then a 2nd ref really is the only option left in line with party policy, no?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 03:04:46 pm by ShakaHislop »

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21964 on: April 24, 2019, 04:54:02 pm »
Hard to see how Labour realistically continues to avoid committing to another referendum after the cross-party talks break down and the only Brexit deal in town remains May's "Tory Brexit"

I suppose they could call for another no confidence vote hoping there's enough angry ERGers and/or the DUP willing to vote with them but if that fails, then a 2nd ref really is the only option left in line with party policy, no?

"A senior Labour spokesman said they'll continue to push for a general election".

I'm sure it's better than further annoying all the people that are going to vote for Frottage anyway.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21965 on: April 25, 2019, 10:01:06 am »
Peston seems to be under the impression the Govt could bring the WA Bill in with the backstop provisions stripped out, so that if it got through the commons it would send a real message to the EU.

Newsflash, I think the EU know that the backstop is the issue, and are still unable to do anything about it.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21966 on: April 25, 2019, 10:16:47 am »
Peston seems to be under the impression the Govt could bring the WA Bill in with the backstop provisions stripped out, so that if it got through the commons it would send a real message to the EU.

Newsflash, I think the EU know that the backstop is the issue, and are still unable to do anything about it.


I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that Theresa May should be sectioned under the mental health act.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21967 on: April 25, 2019, 11:47:53 am »
"A senior Labour spokesman said they'll continue to push for a general election".

I'm sure it's better than further annoying all the people that are going to vote for Frottage anyway.

It is sad how much of the Remain vote Labour will end up hoovering up in the European election, which will no doubt later be portrayed as a vote to Leave just like in the 2017 GE

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21968 on: April 25, 2019, 01:48:44 pm »
US-UK trade deal 'more difficult' with a customs union

Quote
The US Ambassador to the UK says negotiating a trade deal post-Brexit would be "much more difficult" if the UK is in a customs union with the EU.

Woody Johnson also said it would be "more challenging" for the UK "to get control of [its] own trade policy".

But he said President Donald Trump is still hopeful doing a "robust, big, very generous trade deal" with the UK after Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48042524

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21969 on: April 25, 2019, 04:19:00 pm »
US-UK trade deal 'more difficult' with a customs union

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48042524
It will be more difficult but the Customs union doesn't cover agriculture or Services so I assume we can sign a deal with the USA.still not good enough to stop job losses and economy going to pot though.
Heres the Brexit parties latest candidate for the MEP elections, he should do well.
https://twitter.com/SurreyAmps/status/1121315736918659072
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 04:21:11 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21970 on: April 25, 2019, 05:42:16 pm »
But he said President Donald Trump is still hopeful doing a "robust, big, very generous trade deal" with the UK after Brexit.

Sounds just like Trump, can't wait to give things away at the expense of the US.

Especially soft power to China and Russia.
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Offline BobOnATank

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21971 on: April 25, 2019, 08:01:13 pm »
US-UK trade deal 'more difficult' with a customs union

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48042524

or not possible at all if the GFA is messed with:

Quote
The Speaker of the US House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi warned the UK not to even "think about" a future trade agreement with the US if it undermines the Good Friday Agreement.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0415/1042810-nancy-pelosi-dublin-visit/

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21972 on: April 25, 2019, 09:24:58 pm »
Fury As Corbyn European Elections Leaflet Suggests Labour Backs Brexit

Jeremy Corbyn is facing a fierce backlash from Labour members after a draft leaflet for the European elections said the party would press ahead with Brexit.

The leaflet, passed to HuffPost UK, makes no mention of the party’s policy to push for a second referendum on quitting the EU, was sent out to MEPs on Thursday.

One Labour insider said: “MEPs were not given these leaflets to review, they were just told: this is what the party is printing and this is what they would have to put out.”

The leaflet claims the party will seek a “better deal with Europe” which ensures the UK has “a say on trade deals”, while also underlining party policy on domestic issues.

It has left the party’s pro-EU membership furious and dismayed, with one activist telling HuffPost UK: “In what will be an utterly polarised election, standing in the middle will be a bad move.”

HuffPost UK also understands that staunch pro-European former minister Lord Adonis, who is standing for Labour in the South West region, was forced to sign a ‘loyalty’ statement or face being blocked as an MEP candidate.

Adonis surprised his supporters when he put out a statement apologising for his previous remark that Brexit voters should not vote for Labour.

In the statement, he also said “Labour has put forward a sensible alternative plan that would ensure a close economic partnership with the EU after Brexit.

“A vote for Labour is a vote for so much more than just Brexit.”

The wording closely reflects that on the draft leaflet which says that Labour would have a ‘better deal with Europe’ after Brexit.

A Labour MP told HuffPost UK that party members and MPs were likely to quit in large numbers if asked to campaign on the basis of the leaflet.

“There’s a small number of unelected people in the Labour party who are doing their utmost to subvert our policy of supporting a public vote on any Brexit deal and are trying to bounce the party into a position before the shadow cabinet and NEC (ruling body the National Executive Committee) had a chance to agree the manifesto on Tuesday,” the MP said.

“No MEP or MP I’ve spoken to would be prepared to campaign on the basis of this leaflet. It hardly even mentions Europe and it sounds like it’s pro-Brexit. This will be the only piece of literature going to every single household across the country, via FreePost, so its content really matters.

“If this goes out as it is, it would be a gift to the smaller pro-referendum parties and to Nigel Frottage. Labour members won’t campaign on this basis.”

One senior Labour source said: “This is clearly a monumental and embarrassing f***-up. MPs and MEP candidates have roundly dismissed the leaflets. All eyes are on the manifesto now.

“If the leaders’ office and HQ conspire to fudge the line on Brexit, we will lose unity in the party, and MPs, activists and the MEP candidates themselves will just go rogue. We’ll have to.”

Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer, deputy leader Tom Watson and shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry were not consulted on the wording, even though they form part of the party’s Brexit sub-committee.

Crucially, the leader of the European Labour Party, MEP Richard Corbett, was not consulted about the leaflet’s content, sources said.

It comes as Nigel Frottage’s new Brexit Party looks set to capture the pro-Leave vote while Change UK targets Remainers with its clear promise to seek a second referendum.

“Staff were asking for this leaflet’s content and it was withheld until the very last minute, and then with no consultation,” one MP said.

“My members and my region have gone bananas about it. How can you have a leaflet without consulting the candidates in whose names this is going out?”

One Labour insider said: “The plan seems to be to make it all about domestic issues and to dodge the EU elephant inside the room.

“In what will be an utterly polarised election, standing in the middle will be a bad move.

“People will not be voting on domestic issues in this election and people who want Brexit are only going to one place. Labour has to decide whether to be crystal clear on a confirmatory vote on any deal or risk getting hammered from the Remainers, who are highly motivated to come out and vote.”

Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee (NEC) is set to decide next Tuesday the party’s manifesto pledges for the European elections to be held on May 23.

The party’s trade trade union group which advises the party is due on Friday to make its own recommendations for the European manifesto. All unions apart from Unite are expected to call for a second referendum on any Brexit deal to be part of the pledges to voters.

A Labour spokesman said: “This is a short pre-manifesto leaflet to introduce our candidates and set out our commitment to Leave and Remain voters to bring our country together.

“It highlights how the Tories’ chaotic handling of Brexit has left our country in crisis and how our MEPs will fight for proper investment in communities, housing, jobs and industries. Our full manifesto, which will address the issues of a Brexit deal and the circumstances of a referendum, will be published after the local elections.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fury-as-corbyn-euro-elections-leaflet-suggests-labour-backs-brexit_uk_5cc1e94be4b031dc07ef6b3a

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21973 on: April 25, 2019, 09:44:50 pm »
I can't wait to see what synonym for "on the table" emerges from the NEC meeting next week as the latest fudge.

We might be treated to new "6 tests"/"5 point plan" as well.
"Labour's 3-stage referendum lock"?

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21974 on: April 25, 2019, 10:11:45 pm »
Fury As Corbyn European Elections Leaflet Suggests Labour Backs Brexit

Jeremy Corbyn is facing a fierce backlash from Labour members after a draft leaflet for the European elections said the party would press ahead with Brexit.

The leaflet, passed to HuffPost UK, makes no mention of the party’s policy to push for a second referendum on quitting the EU, was sent out to MEPs on Thursday.

One Labour insider said: “MEPs were not given these leaflets to review, they were just told: this is what the party is printing and this is what they would have to put out.”

The leaflet claims the party will seek a “better deal with Europe” which ensures the UK has “a say on trade deals”, while also underlining party policy on domestic issues.

It has left the party’s pro-EU membership furious and dismayed, with one activist telling HuffPost UK: “In what will be an utterly polarised election, standing in the middle will be a bad move.”

HuffPost UK also understands that staunch pro-European former minister Lord Adonis, who is standing for Labour in the South West region, was forced to sign a ‘loyalty’ statement or face being blocked as an MEP candidate.

Adonis surprised his supporters when he put out a statement apologising for his previous remark that Brexit voters should not vote for Labour.

In the statement, he also said “Labour has put forward a sensible alternative plan that would ensure a close economic partnership with the EU after Brexit.

“A vote for Labour is a vote for so much more than just Brexit.”

The wording closely reflects that on the draft leaflet which says that Labour would have a ‘better deal with Europe’ after Brexit.

A Labour MP told HuffPost UK that party members and MPs were likely to quit in large numbers if asked to campaign on the basis of the leaflet.

“There’s a small number of unelected people in the Labour party who are doing their utmost to subvert our policy of supporting a public vote on any Brexit deal and are trying to bounce the party into a position before the shadow cabinet and NEC (ruling body the National Executive Committee) had a chance to agree the manifesto on Tuesday,” the MP said.

“No MEP or MP I’ve spoken to would be prepared to campaign on the basis of this leaflet. It hardly even mentions Europe and it sounds like it’s pro-Brexit. This will be the only piece of literature going to every single household across the country, via FreePost, so its content really matters.

“If this goes out as it is, it would be a gift to the smaller pro-referendum parties and to Nigel Frottage. Labour members won’t campaign on this basis.”

One senior Labour source said: “This is clearly a monumental and embarrassing f***-up. MPs and MEP candidates have roundly dismissed the leaflets. All eyes are on the manifesto now.

“If the leaders’ office and HQ conspire to fudge the line on Brexit, we will lose unity in the party, and MPs, activists and the MEP candidates themselves will just go rogue. We’ll have to.”

Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer, deputy leader Tom Watson and shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry were not consulted on the wording, even though they form part of the party’s Brexit sub-committee.

Crucially, the leader of the European Labour Party, MEP Richard Corbett, was not consulted about the leaflet’s content, sources said.

It comes as Nigel Frottage’s new Brexit Party looks set to capture the pro-Leave vote while Change UK targets Remainers with its clear promise to seek a second referendum.

“Staff were asking for this leaflet’s content and it was withheld until the very last minute, and then with no consultation,” one MP said.

“My members and my region have gone bananas about it. How can you have a leaflet without consulting the candidates in whose names this is going out?”

One Labour insider said: “The plan seems to be to make it all about domestic issues and to dodge the EU elephant inside the room.

“In what will be an utterly polarised election, standing in the middle will be a bad move.

“People will not be voting on domestic issues in this election and people who want Brexit are only going to one place. Labour has to decide whether to be crystal clear on a confirmatory vote on any deal or risk getting hammered from the Remainers, who are highly motivated to come out and vote.”

Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee (NEC) is set to decide next Tuesday the party’s manifesto pledges for the European elections to be held on May 23.

The party’s trade trade union group which advises the party is due on Friday to make its own recommendations for the European manifesto. All unions apart from Unite are expected to call for a second referendum on any Brexit deal to be part of the pledges to voters.

A Labour spokesman said: “This is a short pre-manifesto leaflet to introduce our candidates and set out our commitment to Leave and Remain voters to bring our country together.

“It highlights how the Tories’ chaotic handling of Brexit has left our country in crisis and how our MEPs will fight for proper investment in communities, housing, jobs and industries. Our full manifesto, which will address the issues of a Brexit deal and the circumstances of a referendum, will be published after the local elections.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fury-as-corbyn-euro-elections-leaflet-suggests-labour-backs-brexit_uk_5cc1e94be4b031dc07ef6b3a
Pathetic, the Brexit party are going to clean up while Labour carrys on making fantasy promises to defend dear leader.
One question. How will Labour solve the NI backstop ?
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline cloggypop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21975 on: April 25, 2019, 10:28:55 pm »
Pathetic, the Brexit party are going to clean up while Labour carrys on making fantasy promises to defend dear leader.
One question. How will Labour solve the NI backstop ?
Customs union presumably

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21976 on: April 25, 2019, 10:43:48 pm »
ITV with a nice balanced report there.

Went to York showing a load of whining gammons complaining about the European Elections before (reluctantly) saying that in fact York voted Remain before rushing on to show a load of students - which they made out was the only reason they'd voted remain.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21977 on: April 25, 2019, 10:46:11 pm »
Customs union presumably
Not enough, we have to be in the SM +CU to solve the NI border problem. CU only covers certain tariffs, the EU customs union doesen't cover EU safety regulations or standards, it doesn't cover agriculture etc.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21978 on: April 25, 2019, 10:53:44 pm »
Fury As Corbyn European Elections Leaflet Suggests Labour Backs Brexit

Jeremy Corbyn is facing a fierce backlash from Labour members after a draft leaflet for the European elections said the party would press ahead with Brexit.

The leaflet, passed to HuffPost UK, makes no mention of the party’s policy to push for a second referendum on quitting the EU, was sent out to MEPs on Thursday.

One Labour insider said: “MEPs were not given these leaflets to review, they were just told: this is what the party is printing and this is what they would have to put out.”

The leaflet claims the party will seek a “better deal with Europe” which ensures the UK has “a say on trade deals”, while also underlining party policy on domestic issues.

It has left the party’s pro-EU membership furious and dismayed, with one activist telling HuffPost UK: “In what will be an utterly polarised election, standing in the middle will be a bad move.”

HuffPost UK also understands that staunch pro-European former minister Lord Adonis, who is standing for Labour in the South West region, was forced to sign a ‘loyalty’ statement or face being blocked as an MEP candidate.

Adonis surprised his supporters when he put out a statement apologising for his previous remark that Brexit voters should not vote for Labour.

In the statement, he also said “Labour has put forward a sensible alternative plan that would ensure a close economic partnership with the EU after Brexit.

“A vote for Labour is a vote for so much more than just Brexit.”

The wording closely reflects that on the draft leaflet which says that Labour would have a ‘better deal with Europe’ after Brexit.

A Labour MP told HuffPost UK that party members and MPs were likely to quit in large numbers if asked to campaign on the basis of the leaflet.

“There’s a small number of unelected people in the Labour party who are doing their utmost to subvert our policy of supporting a public vote on any Brexit deal and are trying to bounce the party into a position before the shadow cabinet and NEC (ruling body the National Executive Committee) had a chance to agree the manifesto on Tuesday,” the MP said.

“No MEP or MP I’ve spoken to would be prepared to campaign on the basis of this leaflet. It hardly even mentions Europe and it sounds like it’s pro-Brexit. This will be the only piece of literature going to every single household across the country, via FreePost, so its content really matters.

“If this goes out as it is, it would be a gift to the smaller pro-referendum parties and to Nigel Frottage. Labour members won’t campaign on this basis.”

One senior Labour source said: “This is clearly a monumental and embarrassing f***-up. MPs and MEP candidates have roundly dismissed the leaflets. All eyes are on the manifesto now.

“If the leaders’ office and HQ conspire to fudge the line on Brexit, we will lose unity in the party, and MPs, activists and the MEP candidates themselves will just go rogue. We’ll have to.”

Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer, deputy leader Tom Watson and shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry were not consulted on the wording, even though they form part of the party’s Brexit sub-committee.

Crucially, the leader of the European Labour Party, MEP Richard Corbett, was not consulted about the leaflet’s content, sources said.

It comes as Nigel Frottage’s new Brexit Party looks set to capture the pro-Leave vote while Change UK targets Remainers with its clear promise to seek a second referendum.

“Staff were asking for this leaflet’s content and it was withheld until the very last minute, and then with no consultation,” one MP said.

“My members and my region have gone bananas about it. How can you have a leaflet without consulting the candidates in whose names this is going out?”

One Labour insider said: “The plan seems to be to make it all about domestic issues and to dodge the EU elephant inside the room.

“In what will be an utterly polarised election, standing in the middle will be a bad move.

“People will not be voting on domestic issues in this election and people who want Brexit are only going to one place. Labour has to decide whether to be crystal clear on a confirmatory vote on any deal or risk getting hammered from the Remainers, who are highly motivated to come out and vote.”

Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee (NEC) is set to decide next Tuesday the party’s manifesto pledges for the European elections to be held on May 23.

The party’s trade trade union group which advises the party is due on Friday to make its own recommendations for the European manifesto. All unions apart from Unite are expected to call for a second referendum on any Brexit deal to be part of the pledges to voters.

A Labour spokesman said: “This is a short pre-manifesto leaflet to introduce our candidates and set out our commitment to Leave and Remain voters to bring our country together.

“It highlights how the Tories’ chaotic handling of Brexit has left our country in crisis and how our MEPs will fight for proper investment in communities, housing, jobs and industries. Our full manifesto, which will address the issues of a Brexit deal and the circumstances of a referendum, will be published after the local elections.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fury-as-corbyn-euro-elections-leaflet-suggests-labour-backs-brexit_uk_5cc1e94be4b031dc07ef6b3a

It's hard to get angry at the utter c*ntishness of the Labour leadership. C*nts acting like c*nts.
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Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21979 on: April 25, 2019, 11:09:24 pm »
It's hard to get angry at the utter c*ntishness of the Labour leadership. C*nts acting like c*nts.

Quote
This matters. The International Commission of Labour’s National Policy Forum - which consists of MPs, trade unionists, MEPs, and constituency representatives - has just voted UNANIMOUSLY that Labour’s manifesto for EU elections should pledge to hold a confirmatory referendum...

on any Brexit deal. My sources say there were no dissenting voices. And yesterday all Labour MEPs voted in precisely the same unanimous way, for a referendum. Tomorrow Labour’s Trade Union Liaison Organisation is likely to inform the party’s ruling NEC that its big...

union supporters - including Unison, the GMB and USDAW, but obviously NOT Unite - also want a referendum. So it is increasingly hard to see how Labour’s ruling NEC can next Tuesday, at its emergency meeting ignore such widespread membership pressure and do anything but adopt...

a confirmatory referendum as the foundation of its manifesto. That said many senior Labour figures tell me they worry Seumas Milne and @jeremycorbyn will somehow find a way to prevent the party adopting an unambiguous pledge to campaign for a referendum. As one senior Labour...

said to me, “it is a test of whether Jeremy really believes in party democracy”.

Now if you want a sense of why the NEC referendum vote on Tuesday is anything but a done deal, see this text from a Labour media official: “Just a couple of things about your tweet re the International Commission. I have it from 4 people in the room that there was no vote and...

”no unanimity on confirmatory referendum”. Which I thought was odd, given what my own sources from the room told me. So I went back to them and they agreed there was no vote, because there was no need for one - in that everyone in the room was asked to speak to @Keir_Starmer’s...

proposal that any government Brexit deal should be subject to ratification in a referendum and no one dissented from that proposal, although one person expressed reservations while ultimately endorsing the plan. In that sense it was passed “nem con”. Though what matters of...

course is that the leaders’s office wish to downplay the significance of what the international commission of the party’s policy forum decided.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1121425028065763328

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21980 on: April 25, 2019, 11:14:36 pm »
They will ignore it because the party is Comrade Corbyn & he likes to pretend he is pro democracy when he is in fact a poor mans dictator or at least he would like to be.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21981 on: April 25, 2019, 11:21:38 pm »
Yup, he believes in party democracy when it agrees with him

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21982 on: April 25, 2019, 11:23:51 pm »
They will ignore it because the party is Comrade Corbyn & he likes to pretend he is pro democracy when he is in fact a poor mans dictator or at least he would like to be.

It'll be Conference all over again. A fudge will emerge that allows Starmer enough wriggle room (which it should if he's involved in the drafting of the resolution like he was at Conference) to sell it to those who still aren't willing to face up to the reality of the situation.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21983 on: April 25, 2019, 11:33:30 pm »
When will the Labour party grow some to get rid of this monster as leader. He is single-handedly destroying the party.
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Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21985 on: April 25, 2019, 11:52:41 pm »
When will the Labour party grow some to get rid of this monster as leader. He is single-handedly destroying the party.
to be honest I’d say he’s already destroyed it with the help of his merry men and women

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21986 on: April 26, 2019, 07:31:57 am »
I wonder if May is wait until after next weeks local elections to bring her deal back for a vote if the Tories do really bad it may scare some Tory MPS to vote for it.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline filopastry

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21987 on: April 26, 2019, 10:08:20 am »
I wonder if May is wait until after next weeks local elections to bring her deal back for a vote if the Tories do really bad it may scare some Tory MPS to vote for it.

I think if anything bad results are likely to push more Tories to back no-deal as that is probably what a significant proportion of Tory voters want

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21988 on: April 26, 2019, 10:16:47 am »
P&O sues UK government over no-deal Brexit ferry case

Quote
Ferry firm P&O is taking legal action against the UK government, claiming a rival was unlawfully handed £33m of taxpayers' money.

Last month, the Department for Transport (DfT) was forced to settle with train operator Eurotunnel, which had challenged the procurement of no-deal Brexit shipping contracts.

As part of the deal, Eurotunnel agreed to make improvements to its terminal.

P&O argues that this put its business at a "competitive disadvantage".

Quote
The government was keen to stress that the money would be used by Eurotunnel to upgrade its facilities in Folkestone, including installing new scanners and changing traffic routing.

At the time, experts said that this provision could amount to illegal state aid.

Andrew Dean, from law firm Clifford Chance said it "could be construed as another piece of public procurement without open and transparent competition".

P&O, which did not bid for the original ferry contracts, is now challenging the Eurotunnel settlement.

"We have repeatedly made clear during decades of providing vital transport services between Britain and the Continent that we are happy to compete with other providers on a level playing field.

"We also fully accept that it was prudent of the government to make contingency plans to protect international supply chains in the event of a hard Brexit.

"However, we do not believe that the payment of £33m of public money to Eurotunnel to settle its legal challenge to these plans is fair or reasonable.

"It is explicitly designed to be invested in the tunnel's infrastructure and if left unchallenged would put our services at a competitive disadvantage."

A government spokeswoman said: "We are confident we acted appropriately in reaching the agreement with Eurotunnel."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48063672

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21989 on: April 26, 2019, 12:08:42 pm »
Little snippet from Dunt's weekly e-mail round-up as he takes a flamethrower to all the political parties. (No link - he usually posts something similar up to politics.co.uk at some point in the day though).

Quote
Nigel Frottage was asked about it this week, as he unveiled the latest in his despairing list of has-beens and lunatics, and said he didn't see the need. "As far as the manifesto is concerned, we are fighting the 23 of May on the issue of democracy. Are we a democratic country or not? We will talk about all those things after the 23 May."

A remarkable response. The tradition, of course, is for parties to publish their manifesto before the election is held, so that voters can base their decision on what it contains. Not so anymore. Actual policies are a hindrance to electoral success.

The party claim to be fighting a 'Remain parliament', but in reality it is fighting reality itself. They have shunned any glimmer of it and run from any mention of its name.

But reality does not go away just because you ignore it. Over the last three years, it has slowly dismantled them. They were incapable of managing it because they had not bothered to understand it.

They are the saboteurs of their own project. Far from it being a Remain parliament, the actual Brexiters in parliament were the people who prevented Brexit from taking place. Now they campaign outside parliament to make it do the thing they cannot accept it doing. It is a mental breakdown in political form.

So instead of coming up with a strategy, the Brexit party has retreated to the dreamy days of the referendum, when they could promise everyone their own personal rainbow and there was no such thing as backstops, or regulatory alignment, or customs borders, or harmonised regulation.

This is the anti-politics: the substitution of identity for ideas and feelings for reason. They're not champions of democracy. They are promoters of a fundamentally undemocratic approach to elections, which deprives the public of any rational basis upon which to make political decisions.

But even these monstrous imbeciles are doing better than the Remain parties, who have somehow managed to take a moment of surging momentum and turn it into a internecine bloodsport.

He makes some good points on Change after that too. Fundamentally, that they're struggling to communicate a message. Not that he's any less scathing of the Tories, Labour, Lib Dems, or Greens for that matter.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21990 on: April 26, 2019, 03:07:16 pm »
Fury As Corbyn European Elections Leaflet Suggests Labour Backs Brexit

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fury-as-corbyn-euro-elections-leaflet-suggests-labour-backs-brexit_uk_5cc1e94be4b031dc07ef6b3a

Quote
Our exclusive last night certainly had an impact. Sounds like leaflet being hastily rewritten. CLPs expecting to pick up printed version today "it's not available" and will be ready early next week.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1121770848304672772

Quote
I am told that Labour’s EU election leaflets are being rewritten - after the leadership noticed that someone had “forgotten” to include any reference to the possibility of a confirmatory Brexit referendum

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1121776639980048391

Offline Trada

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Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21992 on: April 26, 2019, 04:18:20 pm »
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1121770848304672772
I am told that Labour’s EU election leaflets are being rewritten - after the leadership noticed that someone had “forgotten” to include any reference to the possibility of a confirmatory Brexit referendum
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1121776639980048391
Makes you want to throw up. honest and sincere my arse.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21993 on: April 26, 2019, 04:21:44 pm »
Peston is more about repeating gossip than doing any journalism.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21994 on: April 26, 2019, 04:23:29 pm »
They are not being rewritten and Peston was spreading fake news about a vote no vote happenhed.

Quote
Now if you want a sense of why the NEC referendum vote on Tuesday is anything but a done deal, see this text from a Labour media official: “Just a couple of things about your tweet re the International Commission. I have it from 4 people in the room that there was no vote and...

”no unanimity on confirmatory referendum”. Which I thought was odd, given what my own sources from the room told me. So I went back to them and they agreed there was no vote, because there was no need for one - in that everyone in the room was asked to speak to @Keir_Starmer’s...

proposal that any government Brexit deal should be subject to ratification in a referendum and no one dissented from that proposal, although one person expressed reservations while ultimately endorsing the plan. In that sense it was passed “nem con”. Though what matters of...

Why are you having a go at Peston for not doing the thing you claim he has?

And where's your source to back up your assertion that the leaflets aren't being rewritten?

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21995 on: April 26, 2019, 05:15:22 pm »
Peston is more about repeating gossip than doing any journalism.






Your lot are all as deluded as Drumpfsters.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21996 on: April 26, 2019, 05:26:47 pm »





Your lot are all as deluded as Drumpfsters.

They are a bit different. The Trump followers who are men dont carry backpacks in the sorts of volume the Corbyn lot do. It begs the question why so many men carry backpacks and what is in them.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21997 on: April 26, 2019, 05:55:09 pm »
Quote
New letter from MPs and MEPs in the @LoveSocialism group, sent to NEC today ahead of Tues meeting on Euros manifesto. "My post has been amended by autocorrect. Please report me to the site admins for being ignorant".: they want confirmatory ballot on any Brexit deal.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1121791831144984576





Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21998 on: April 26, 2019, 06:57:55 pm »
Quote
Unite seems so confident of its influence over @jeremycorbyn and the leader’s office that it did not bother to turn up today to the meeting of the Trade Union and Labour Party Liaison Organisation that was held to discuss what should be in the party’s EU elections manifesto...

Those there said that as expected, Unison, the GMB and Usdaw all said they want a confirmatory Brexit referendum as the foundation of the manifesto. They expect the words to be in the manifesto. But they remain nervous that the emergency NEC meeting on Tuesday that will...

decide the manifesto may not go for on an unambiguous referendum pledge. It will all come down, I am told, to whether the NEC representatives of party members vote the way that most Labour and Momentum members want them to vote, namely for a referendum, or whether they side...

with the referendum sceptics of the Unite union and the leader’s office. As everyone at top of the party tells me, it is a huge moment for @jeremycorbyn and Labour.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1121833293614407680

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #21999 on: April 26, 2019, 07:01:32 pm »
So has anyone decided who they will be voting in the EU elections?

I've settled on Green, not just because they've been consistently pro-Peoples Vote, but because I feel this is a critical juncture for Green politics (With the limelight being on Greta Thornburg, Extinction Rebellion and David Attenborough)

Everyone else is a shambles (okay the Greens aren't exactly well put together either - but at least people know where they stand)