Author Topic: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19  (Read 31480 times)

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #120 on: December 27, 2018, 11:40:53 AM »
For Premier League era only (so from 92/93 onwards), Liverpool has 3rd best points tally after 19 games.

1   Man City   17/18 - 55 points (GD +48)
2   Chelsea   05/06 - 52 points (GD +32)
3   Liverpool   18/19 - 51 points (GD +36)


In the same period, 44 points (or more) has been achieved 20 times within the first 19 games.  This season is the only time that 3 teams have achieved it (Liverpool, Spurs, Man City).

The only other times in which 2 teams have had at least 44 points at this stage are:

2003/04 - MUN 46 points and ARS 45 points
2011/12 - MCI and MUN both 45 points
2007/08 - MUN 45 points and ARS 44 points
1999/00 - MUN 45 points and LEE 44 points

So, for first 19 games, as well as having the 3rd best total for top of the league, it has the highest ever totals for second and third positions respectively.


The best ever 19 game start (in premier league era) by a team which did not go on to win the league was in 2003/04.  Man United had 46 points.  As noted above, they were 1 point ahead of eventual winners (Arsenal) who finished the season unbeaten, and with 90 points.  Put another way, Arsenal managed to get exactly 45 points in each half season, whereas Man United fell away dramatically to add just another 29 points from their remaining 19 games.


By way of comparison, Man City's last 3 half seasons have yielded an aggregate of 144 points, at an average of 48 points per half season (ie per 19 games).

So if MCI do no better than match their own average (and they might do better, of course) then they will end up on 92 points.  That would still be the fourth best ever tally after 38 games (following MCI's 100 points last year, CHE's 95 points in 04/05, and CHE's 93 points in 16/17).

There's gonna be a lot more twist and turns, of course, but it's been a great Xmas so far!!!

Offline drmick

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #121 on: December 27, 2018, 11:49:01 AM »
For Premier League era only (so from 92/93 onwards), Liverpool has 3rd best points tally after 19 games.

1Man City17/18 - 55 points (GD +48)
2Chelsea05/06 - 52 points (GD +32)
3Liverpool18/19 - 51 points (GD +36)


In the same period, 44 points (or more) has been achieved 20 times within the first 19 games.  This season is the only time that 3 teams have achieved it (Liverpool, Spurs, Man City).

The only other times in which 2 teams have had at least 44 points at this stage are:

2003/04 - MUN 46 points and ARS 45 points
2011/12 - MCI and MUN both 45 points
2007/08 - MUN 45 points and ARS 44 points
1999/00 - MUN 45 points and LEE 44 points

So, for first 19 games, as well as having the 3rd best total for top of the league, it has the highest ever totals for second and third positions respectively.


The best ever 19 game start (in premier league era) by a team which did not go on to win the league was in 2003/04.  Man United had 46 points.  As noted above, they were 1 point ahead of eventual winners (Arsenal) who finished the season unbeaten, and with 90 points.  Put another way, Arsenal managed to get exactly 45 points in each half season, whereas Man United fell away dramatically to add just another 29 points from their remaining 19 games.


By way of comparison, Man City's last 3 half seasons have yielded an aggregate of 144 points, at an average of 48 points per half season (ie per 19 games).

So if MCI do no better than match their own average (and they might do better, of course) then they will end up on 92 points.  That would still be the fourth best ever tally after 38 games (following MCI's 100 points last year, CHE's 95 points in 04/05, and CHE's 93 points in 16/17).

There's gonna be a lot more twist and turns, of course, but it's been a great Xmas so far!!!
Fair play to Mourinho, he has been responsible for some very decent Chelsea seasons.

Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #122 on: December 27, 2018, 12:25:00 PM »
For Premier League era only (so from 92/93 onwards), Liverpool has 3rd best points tally after 19 games.

1   Man City   17/18 - 55 points (GD +48)
2   Chelsea   05/06 - 52 points (GD +32)
3   Liverpool   18/19 - 51 points (GD +36)


In the same period, 44 points (or more) has been achieved 20 times within the first 19 games.  This season is the only time that 3 teams have achieved it (Liverpool, Spurs, Man City).

The only other times in which 2 teams have had at least 44 points at this stage are:

2003/04 - MUN 46 points and ARS 45 points
2011/12 - MCI and MUN both 45 points
2007/08 - MUN 45 points and ARS 44 points
1999/00 - MUN 45 points and LEE 44 points

So, for first 19 games, as well as having the 3rd best total for top of the league, it has the highest ever totals for second and third positions respectively.


The best ever 19 game start (in premier league era) by a team which did not go on to win the league was in 2003/04.  Man United had 46 points.  As noted above, they were 1 point ahead of eventual winners (Arsenal) who finished the season unbeaten, and with 90 points.  Put another way, Arsenal managed to get exactly 45 points in each half season, whereas Man United fell away dramatically to add just another 29 points from their remaining 19 games.


By way of comparison, Man City's last 3 half seasons have yielded an aggregate of 144 points, at an average of 48 points per half season (ie per 19 games).

So if MCI do no better than match their own average (and they might do better, of course) then they will end up on 92 points.  That would still be the fourth best ever tally after 38 games (following MCI's 100 points last year, CHE's 95 points in 04/05, and CHE's 93 points in 16/17).

There's gonna be a lot more twist and turns, of course, but it's been a great Xmas so far!!!
Our average over the same period is 42. So we'd get 93 if we match that for the second half of the season. Our respective form seem to go in opposite directions as well, with City starting last season with 55 (!), then 45 and now 44, while we have got 35,40 and 51. I think we'll get less points than 51 in the second half, but we're clearly capable of 40-45 (or more!) even if we go far in the Champions League.

Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #123 on: December 27, 2018, 12:43:38 PM »
So I take it this is Spurs best ever Premier League season too? So far
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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #124 on: December 27, 2018, 12:55:16 PM »
So I take it this is Spurs best ever Premier League season too? So far

It is and, just to highlight how mad this season is, they've recorded the same number of points as Arsenal's best ever Premier League 19 game start of 45 points. And that was the Invincible season! Technically, Spurs better them on goal difference...

Offline JP-65

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #125 on: December 27, 2018, 01:28:54 PM »
Man City only 3 points down on the equivalent measure? That's surprising given that the absolute maximum they can get now is 101 (meaning they only have 4 points dropped during the rest of the season)

City are +4 on Home matches & -7 on Away matches.

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #126 on: December 27, 2018, 01:32:29 PM »
It does look strange, because by time they’re 11 points lower than last season at the halfway point. I think it’s to do with the number of home and away games, and they took 10 points less in the second half of last season.

City lost 2 points in the first half of last season, then lost 12 in the second half.
They've lost 13 in the first half of this season.....maybe the first half last season was the outlier and we're seeing their true form?

Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #127 on: December 27, 2018, 01:39:22 PM »
City’s first half last season was insane, they only dropped 2 points in their first 20 games. I doubt any team will match that any time soon. 44-45 is still great, but more normal title winning form and most likely closer to their ’true’ quality.

I don’t think we’ll get 51 points over 19 games that often either, but we look very capable of getting around 45 with this team as long as our key players are fit.

Offline JP-65

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #128 on: December 27, 2018, 01:50:57 PM »
During the Premier League era there have been 8 champions with 90 or greater points:

93-94 United 92
99-00 United 91
03-04 Arsenal 90
04-05 Chelsea 95
05-06 Chelsea 91
08-09 United 90
16-17 Chelsea 93
17-18 City 100

Seems that teams find it hard to repeat the following season, the best follow on performance being 05-06 Chelsea when they dropped from what was the PL record of 95 to 91.

For the record, the best 2nd place finish was United in 11-12 when they finished with 89, same as Champions Man City (and reason for my using 90 as the target)

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #129 on: December 27, 2018, 02:00:31 PM »
During the Premier League era there have been 8 champions with 90 or greater points:

93-94 United 92
99-00 United 91
03-04 Arsenal 90
04-05 Chelsea 95
05-06 Chelsea 91
08-09 United 90
16-17 Chelsea 93
17-18 City 100

Seems that teams find it hard to repeat the following season, the best follow on performance being 05-06 Chelsea when they dropped from what was the PL record of 95 to 91.

For the record, the best 2nd place finish was United in 11-12 when they finished with 89, same as Champions Man City (and reason for my using 90 as the target)

Worth baring in mind that the 93-94 Manc team was in a 22 team league so had an extra 4 games to rack up a high total.

Has there ever been a campaign in this period with 3 teams heading for 90+ at the half way stage? Feels like this is unchartered territory.

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #130 on: December 27, 2018, 02:40:10 PM »
Has there ever been a campaign in this period with 3 teams heading for 90+ at the half way stage? Feels like this is unchartered territory.

While not exactly answering your question, this recent tweet from @lfcmbm illustrates how unusual this season is.

"Only 3x has leader after 18 games >48 pts (1961,2006,2018). Only once has 2nd >44 (2012). 3rd never had >42, 4th never >37 and 5th never >37 in 119 seasons. Spurs 42 would have led 100x, even CFC and AFC half of all seasons. Bottom 5 total of 61 is lowest ever after 18 games."

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #131 on: December 27, 2018, 03:07:21 PM »
City lost 2 points in the first half of last season, then lost 12 in the second half.
They've lost 13 in the first half of this season.....maybe the first half last season was the outlier and we're seeing their true form?

Yeah, I think it is an outlier. Until a couple of games ago, it seemed like the new norm. Now, not so much.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #132 on: December 27, 2018, 03:42:04 PM »
Only once has 2nd >44 (2012).

Also 03/04.  MU had 46 in first, and Arsenal had 45 in second.


Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #133 on: December 27, 2018, 03:54:57 PM »
So I take it this is Spurs best ever Premier League season too? So far

Yes

Best Starts for Each Club After 19 Games (Premier League Only)

Man City - 17/18 - 55 points

Chelsea - 05/06 - 52 points

Liverpool - 18/19 - 51 points

Man Utd - 93/94 - 49 points

Spurs - 18/19 - 45 points  (GD +24, GS 42)

Newcastle - 95/96 - 45 points (GD +24, GS 40)

Arsenal - 03/04 - 45 points (GD +23)

Leeds - 99/00 - 44 points

Blackburn - 94/95 - 43 points

Everton - 04/05 - 40 points


Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #134 on: December 27, 2018, 05:44:50 PM »
Also 03/04.  MU had 46 in first, and Arsenal had 45 in second.

Not after 18 as the tweet says though.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #135 on: December 27, 2018, 05:44:55 PM »
Our average over the same period is 42. So we'd get 93 if we match that for the second half of the season. Our respective form seem to go in opposite directions as well, with City starting last season with 55 (!), then 45 and now 44, while we have got 35,40 and 51. I think we'll get less points than 51 in the second half, but we're clearly capable of 40-45 (or more!) even if we go far in the Champions League.

Since 3 points for a win came in, these are the seasons in which we have got at least 39 points in the last 19 games.  That would take us to 90 this season, of course, but might not be enough to finish first (or second!!!).

Our final league position is in brackets.

48  -  1981/82 (1st)
48  -  1988/89 (2nd)
48  -  2013/14 (2nd)

44  -  1989/90 (1st)
44  -  2008/09 (2nd)

43  -  1985/86 (1st)
43  -  2001/02 (2nd)

42  -  1984/85 (2nd)

41  -  2005/06 (3rd)

40  -  2017/18 (4th)

39  -  2007/08 (4th)




« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 05:46:34 PM by Jack Slater »

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #136 on: December 27, 2018, 05:47:42 PM »
Not after 18 as the tweet says though.

Ah, thanks.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #137 on: December 30, 2018, 12:34:50 PM »
These are all the times in which we have had at least 40 points after 20 games.  (3 points for a win came in from 81/82 onwards).


1.  Current   -  54 points
2.  1987/88  -  50 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
3.  1990/91  -  48 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
4.  2008/09  -  45 points  [finished 2nd:  86 points from 38 games]
5.  1985/86  -  44 points  [finished 1st:  88 points from 42 games] 
5.  2005/06  -  44 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games] 
5.  2016/17  -  44 points  [finished 4th:  76 points from 38 games]
8.  1982/83  -  43 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games] 


For what it's worth, LFC's best full season total under 2 points for a win was 68 points in 78/79 (which is also the best by any team).

After 20 games of that season we were 14W,  3D, 3L, so equivalent to 45 points when converted to 3 for a win.


Offline Nonex

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #138 on: December 30, 2018, 12:49:15 PM »
These are all the times in which we have had at least 40 points after 20 games.  (3 points for a win came in from 81/82 onwards).


1.  Current   -  54 points
2.  1987/88  -  50 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
3.  1990/91  -  48 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
4.  2008/09  -  45 points  [finished 2nd:  86 points from 38 games]
5.  1985/86  -  44 points  [finished 1st:  88 points from 42 games] 
5.  2005/06  -  44 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games] 
5.  2016/17  -  44 points  [finished 4th:  76 points from 38 games]
8.  1982/83  -  43 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games] 


For what it's worth, LFC's best full season total under 2 points for a win was 68 points in 78/79 (which is also the best by any team).

After 20 games of that season we were 14W,  3D, 3L, so equivalent to 45 points when converted to 3 for a win.



The 90/91 season stands out a bit. Forgive me as I was only born in 91, but what happened in the second part of the season? We must have really collapsed to only get 28 points.

Offline JP-65

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #139 on: December 30, 2018, 12:50:22 PM »
54 is 1 point behind Chelsea's 04-05 (95 point) season & 4 behind last season's City (100 point season).

8 goals against is best ever in PL after 20 matches.

Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #140 on: December 30, 2018, 01:04:27 PM »
The 90/91 season stands out a bit. Forgive me as I was only born in 91, but what happened in the second part of the season? We must have really collapsed to only get 28 points.

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #141 on: December 30, 2018, 01:06:59 PM »
In the league, we haven't let in more than 1 in a match.

City have let in more than 1 twice now, lost both.

Spurs have let in more than 1 six times now, lost 4 of them.

Chelsea have let in more than 1 four times now, lost 2 & drew 1 of them.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #142 on: December 30, 2018, 01:41:57 PM »
54 is 1 point behind Chelsea's 04-05 (95 point) season & 4 behind last season's City (100 point season).

Yeah, that's right.

AFAIK, those 3 (us this season, and the other two you mention) are the third best starts of all, even when converting other seasons to 3 points for a win.

Eg

Spurs 1960/61  (17, 2, 1) would have been  53 points
Preston 1888/89 (16, 4, 0) would have been 52 points

(I don't know if those two are definitely the best of the rest; they're just examples)



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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #143 on: December 30, 2018, 04:12:01 PM »
Thought I'd stick this in here if anyone was interested:

I was curious how well Wolves were doing against the top 6 so did a head to head on the top 7:



Tottenham are just ahead of Wolves based on Goals scored.

Here's the Top 6 if anyone is interested:





« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 06:41:12 PM by JCB »

Offline JP-65

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #144 on: December 30, 2018, 06:27:44 PM »
Match 20:

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #145 on: December 30, 2018, 06:30:05 PM »
Read that our current 20 matches to start a PL season without giving up more than 1 goal ties the PL record (United the other team to do it)

Offline vagabond

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #146 on: December 30, 2018, 06:38:01 PM »



Really surprising how few goals City have scored in these games. I guess they've been racking them up against the rest of the league.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #147 on: December 31, 2018, 11:15:02 AM »
Calendar Year 2018

1. MCI 88 points (37 games).   GD+68  (99:31)
2. LIV 88 points (37 games).   GD+68  (84:22)
3. TOT 85 points (38 games).  GD +41 (78:37)
4. MUN 72 points (37 games).  GD +22 (66:44)
5. CHE 68 points (37 games).  GD +21 (61:40)
6. ARS 63 points (37 games). GD +23 (78:55)


So LFC has joint most points; second most goals; fewest conceded (by far); second most wins (we and Spurs both have 27 wins; City have 1 more); fewest defeats (3 for us; 5 for City); second best goal difference.

LFC played 3 more league games in 2017 than in 2018 (40 rather than 37).  However, for 2018, we got:

14 more points than in 2017
4 more goals scored than in 2017
23 fewer goals conceded in 2017

For 2017, we were ranked 6th and 24 points off the best performer (City).  For 2018, we are (almost) joint top, and are 25 points ahead of the 6th ranked team.

A huge turn round year on year.

Happy 2019, everyone!!!




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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #148 on: December 31, 2018, 12:29:07 PM »
The calendar-year figures are even more impressive when you think about some of the league games at the end of last season where we didn't even try, because of CL games.
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Offline drmick

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #149 on: December 31, 2018, 12:37:06 PM »
The calendar-year figures are even more impressive when you think about some of the league games at the end of last season where we didn't even try, because of CL games.

This.

Looking at United's stats, I do feel a bit of sympathy for Mourinho!

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #150 on: December 31, 2018, 01:49:48 PM »
This is a nice stat I read on the BBC. We are the first PL team to win all seven December fixtures.

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #151 on: December 31, 2018, 02:32:15 PM »
This is a nice stat I read on the BBC. We are the first PL team to win all seven December fixtures.

Apparently we're only the fourth top flight team ever to win seven in a month:

https://twitter.com/joedgallagher/status/1079452216921071616

"Only 4 teams have won 7 in a month in top flight history: Burnley in Mar 1958-59 & Sept 1961-62, Chelsea in Apr 1921-22, West Ham in Apr 1985-86."

Offline willss

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #152 on: January 3, 2019, 11:30:09 AM »
Whats the general feeling for what will win the title this season.  I'm looking at 95 but that's a sheer guess based on limited stats. 

Offline JP-65

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #153 on: January 3, 2019, 12:30:07 PM »
Whats the general feeling for what will win the title this season.  I'm looking at 95 but that's a sheer guess based on limited stats. 

I think Spurs will end up just short of 90.  City, I'm thinking 90-92, so 93-95 should do it.

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #154 on: January 3, 2019, 12:32:17 PM »
BassTunedToRed retweeted this City vs LFC comparison, worth a read IMO

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/sorry-city-the-premier-league-title-is-liverpools-to-lose/

Offline Macca201188

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #155 on: January 3, 2019, 01:00:39 PM »
Whats the general feeling for what will win the title this season.  I'm looking at 95 but that's a sheer guess based on limited stats. 

Tonight is far from a title decider, but I think after tonight the points total may become a fair bit clearer.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #156 on: January 3, 2019, 03:14:32 PM »
Calendar Year 2018

1. MCI 88 points (37 games).   GD+68  (99:31)
2. LIV 88 points (37 games).   GD+68  (84:22)
3. TOT 85 points (38 games).  GD +41 (78:37)
Spurs calendar year! Only 3 off ours! Mad. Unbelievable that with that sort of consistency they were nowhere near last season and won't be anywhere near this season, either.

Offline JP-65

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #157 on: January 3, 2019, 10:26:08 PM »
Week 21 update:


Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #158 on: January 5, 2019, 10:51:32 AM »

LFC's best starts for 21 games - 3 Point Era Only

1.  2018/19  -  54 points   
2.  1987/88  -  53 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
3.  1990/91  -  49 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
4.  2008/09  -  46 points  [finished 2nd:  86 points from 38 games]
5.  2016/17  -  45 points  [finished 4th:  76 points from 38 games]
6=  1982/83  -  44 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
6=  1983/84  -  44 points  [finished 1st:  80 points from 42 games]
6=  1985/86  -  44 points  [finished 1st:  88 points from 42 games]
6=  2005/06  -  44 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]



Best starts of any team for 21 games - Premier League Era Only

1.   59 points - MCI - 17/18
2.   58 points - CHE - 05/06 
3.   54 points - LIV  - 18/19
4=  53 points - MUN - 06/07 & 93/94; 
6=  52 points - CHE - 04/05 & 16/17;  MUN 12/13
9.   51 points - MCI - 11/12
10=  50 points - MCI - 18/19; ARS - 07/08; MUN - 03/04


In short, this is one of the best points totals that any team has ever had after 21 games, and the very best for LFC (indeed, it's the only time that we have reached 50 points from 21 games).





Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Results Comparison Thread 2018-19
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2019, 04:06:52 PM »
:D