Author Topic: Match Preview: UCL Final Real Madrid v Liverpool [26 May 2018, KO 19:45 GMT]  (Read 293568 times)

Offline Henry Gale

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Those have already been discussed in the thread.

And lets hope it's all true! fact is they are not worried at all and probably don't even know who Andy Robertson is but come Saturday night if we win or lose they will know then as he and the rest of the team will be all over them.

I honestly don't think I've ever wanted us to win a game of football so much in my life. Even more than the semi's against Chelsea and the final against Milan.

Winning this competition would be massive for this football club.

Offline sms1986

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And lets hope it's all true! fact is they are not worried at all and probably don't even know who Andy Robertson is but come Saturday night if we win or lose they will know then as he and the rest of the team will be all over them.

I honestly don't think I've ever wanted us to win a game of football so much in my life. Even more than the semi's against Chelsea and the final against Milan.

Winning this competition would be massive for this football club.

Think even just being in the final is big, we make a return after years and we're at least runners up in our first season back where we belong.

Offline BabuYagu

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Thirteen Reasons we are totally beating Real Madrid
#11: Loris Karius

I think in this world there are two types of truths. There are the acceptable truths - the ones you believe to be true and don't or no longer question them. You have gathered enough evidence either consciously or subconsciously that allows your brain to believe you have an informed opinion on the matter to the extent you know the truth.

If, for example, all you ever hear about keeper from pundits is he is great, and you youtube him and find plenty of compilations of him making extraordinary saves, and you read articles about how great he is including a quote thrown in from a former top keeper endorsing him and it includes a nice graphic that shows him as being at a higher point than lots of other supposedly good keepers at saves. That is a horde of evidence. It's enough really to state conclusively in your head that Rafael Marvelosa is world class.

So that opinion becomes locked in. It's yours. You know it to be true. You have proven it to be true. Anything stating otherwise is simply wrong. And for many, the statement that Karius has improved and is now good enough to be our #1 is such an example.

Likewise, for many, they cannot move past the "first impression". For many the first they saw of our beautiful German... WOW, where did that even come from?? ?? He does have a remarkably symmetrical face though doesn't he? He also hides his natural gingerness well. Wait, where was I?

Oh yes, first impressions are lasting impressions. So if your horde of evidence on Karius is from watching him look shaky his first 10 games, Raty Neville telling you he is shite, Dopey Neville backing him up, an ex-pro like Ray Clemence saying Butland is better, and when you pop "Karius fail" into google being met with videos of him kicking the ball out for a corner or almost getting tackled by Welbeck against Arsenal - that sort of evidence makes a very big mountain to get over. And therefore some will still be stuck on the opinion that he is not good enough. This is merely form. Even now he still does things like close his eyes when being hit on crosses (all keepers do), parries the ball into danger (again, they all do), doesn't dive for shots he cannot reach (not to get repetitive here but...) or punches the ball more than catching (we'll get back to this). So it can be hard to move from that opinion.

This is where we start moving into unacceptable truths. Things which we can't, or don't want, to be true. As mentioned above, for some they are still at this stage of denial with Karius - that he is even a good keeper now. However, the even more unacceptable truth for almost everyone is likely that he was always this good. That 10 game period is a mere aberration on an otherwise solid set of numbers year on year.

So for the rest of this article, I ask you to try and ignore whatever evidence horde you have accrued for Karius and, if you still don't rate him, to just continue with an open mind.

So first of all, let me introduce you to our very own produced goalkeeping radars. Many of you have probably seen such radars before from the likes of Ted Knutson, or long before him in American sports, but I don't think anybody has had a crack at producing them for keepers before. This became a project for JCB and I to produce radars to compare Liverpool & Madrid players for this game. If you want to read a bit about the process for doing these, you can do so here. But here I will just just straight in.

BAM!

Pretty, but what does it mean?

He is very aggressive off his line on crosses, is challenged for a very high ratio of those, rarely fails to win the ball he comes out for, and elects to punch rather than catch - which makes sense as it is often risky to try catching balls when someone is barging into you (remember Mignolet v Carroll?).
In terms of distribution, he aims to quickly release the ball with throws rather than kicking on counter attacks, does so with high accuracy (he is 1 missed throw from 100%), the quality/effectiveness of his distributions are at an elite level also and all distributions inside his own half are to a high accuracy. When he goes long though, he is rarely finding a red shirt. However, as PoP and I discussed in Karius' thread, the aim there is likely as much about creating pressing events on a retreating backline for second balls than trying to win flick ons with our midget attack. I go into why we looked at specifically these metrics in Karius thread if you are interested to read more.

In terms of shot stopping - think of difficulty and save % as being linked. With an average difficulty an average keeper saves an average number of shots. Logically. So if difficulty increases (e.g. you face close range and fewer long range shots) then an average shot stopper will save less than average. Likewise if shot difficulty decreases (e.g. you face a higher ratio of long shots than close range) then an average shot stopper will save more. This is reflected in save performance, which is measured as the average difficulty of his saves vs how many he actually saves. Also, Dzeko aside, he rarely parries the ball back into dangerous areas in his goal mouth - which is fortunate as being a side that has relatively few defenders in the box when we face shots compared to the likes of Burnley, any shots parried out into danger has a very high chance of facing follow up shots.

The one part I would like to focus on is goals conceded and clean sheets per 90 minutes. I have a theory that a sweeper keeper reduces the amount of shots a team faces and thus can actually prevent more goals despite, statistically, not being a world class shot stopper. Unfortunately this is almost impossible to measure, however there are various examples to support this. The best one being Dubravka to Newcastle in January. They had problems defensively all season, they brought in Dubravka in January and their shot stopping performance went from league average to almost league worst. Ouch! Then Newcastle fans rejoiced, applauded the new keeper as being the main factor in their rapid ascent out of the relegation battle. That makes no sense right? Well, the main difference for Newcastle was that the number of shots on target that they faced almost halved in that time. And while it is hard to prove that is down to any one thing, there is a strong argument a sweeper keeper would have that impact if you think about it logically. A high starting position will turn breakaway chances behind the defence into ball recoveries and clearances. Aggression on crosses turns close range headers into punches out of the box. A higher defensive line turns an open team shape with spaces to play though into a compact one offering no easy passing lanes to the opposition.

We see a similar thing occurring with Karius. His goals conceded and clean sheets per 90 numbers are the best in the league and stack up well against anyone in europe. His style of goalkeeping has a tendency to turn decent scoring chances for a "line-keeper" into point blank blocks or clearances. His aggression on crosses has reduced the number of close range headers we would likely have faced and his command of the penalty area has seen the number of chances conceded in the 6yard box fall from 12 in 19 games with Mignolet to just 1 in 19 with Karius. Wow!

And so while it is easy to source data to see what percentage of shots are being saved by a keeper, it is almost impossible to source data to see how many shots they are preventing entirely. Which is a shame because an elite keeper will be saving 80% of the shots they face, while an elite sweeper keeper is saving 100% of the shots they prevent. For example:-


Karius uses his special forces training to appear in his camosuit out of nowhere to clear the ball.



No shot recorded by opta = no save.

Not to mention that in terms of how analysts value saves, a shot by a player who has set himself and has time to take aim at the goal from close range with no defenders applying pressure is a high value chance with opta - the proverbial "big chance". Whereas a shot where the keeper has charged the player down and is blocked at point blank range is not marked as such. Therefore a sweeper keeper is turning big chances into low scoring chances by being pro-active rather than staying on his line like:-


Auba can swivel and hit one of the corners from here with no pressure. But Karius turns it into just a 5,61% scoring chance according to opta.



Watch how early he reacts to Virgil's mistake here. He's on top of Rondon before he can even control the ball turning what would likely be a clear goalscoring chance into just a 5,02% scoring chance according to opta.



This was the moment I was sure he would make it here. Any other keeper gets back on his line one the ball passes the near post. Instead Karius is bearing down who whatever fucker even thinks about getting a shot off near his goal. Love that!

But how does he stack up against Navas?


In a word - pretty fucking amazingly well. Navas seems to be absolutely shite on crosses. He isn't particularly aggressive coming out, almost avoids entirely coming out if he would be challenged in doing so, and yet still drops and misses the ball on occasion. As mentioned before, that feeds into your shot stopping metrics because if you are staying on your line, you will face more shots. If you are dropping or missing the ball when coming out, you will face shots that you are not even set to save.
Likewise, when looking at distribution, the noticeable difference between the two is in throwing accuracy. A study of goalkeeper distributions in MLS showed that thrown distributions intercepted by the opponent had the highest ratio of resulting in shots on target than all other failed distribution types. Which makes sense because throws are usually short in range and while both teams are in the transition phase meaning whoever gets the ball has a high chance of being effective with it. So seeing that Navas' throwing accuracy is around average across the keepers in the top 4 european leagues indicates he is likely giving up goal scoring chances with his own distribution.

So when you look at the goals conceded and clean sheet numbers, it is no surprise he is struggling for Madrid. He is doing little to prevent shots for Madrid, in fact he may actually be part of the reason they face so many for a side of their dominance in terms of possession. And while he excels in making sure whatever saves he does make clear the danger areas, the majority of the shots he is facing are not that difficult and therefore while he is saving a higher ratio of shots on target than Karius, this is likely due to a comparatively much larger number from long range (Karius faces the lowest ratio of all keepers I looked at). Hence why his save performance is actually ranked lower than Karius' in the data.

What else you got to prove any of that is true though?





This is the goalkeeping equivalent of the shot maps you have likely all seen for forwards which, I believe, we are the first to produce and by we I mean JCB. As you can see, Karius rarely lets players get a shot off inside his own 6 yard box which is important. 30-40% of all shots in the 6 yard box result in a goal compared to 12-18% in the outer penalty box and ~3-4% from outside the penalty box. Which means if you can prevent teams touching the ball in there, you are going to reduce the number of goals you concede.

One of the ways we have improved here under Karius is at set pieces. Karius no longer wants any defenders near him. This gives him space to operate in. It makes any attacker grappling with him easier to be seen by officials and offside at the time any shot is taken making it likely he will be flagged for a foul / obstruction. Plus they are offside for any rebounds. Karius also pushes people off him well, as he showed recently against Palace when Benteke and one of their center backs were trying to sandwich him on corners.

This is likely a large part of the reason why people feel calmer on set pieces now. Karius is aggressive in dealing with them, takes no shit from opposition players, and has a setup which gives him the best possible chance of succeeding. In contrast to Navas, you see a large number of point blank shots resulting in goals which would lead me to ask to what extent his reluctance to deal with crosses feeds into that? I think I have another way to demonstrate this though.


There are a few things I want to point out here. First of all, those 4 goals that would worry me in the center of the goal are, from left to right:-
1. Giroud's header (the orange dot on the edge of the 6 yard box) which he was positioned near post for and he couldn't get across for.
2. Vardy tap in v Leicester. Through ball to Mahrez right of penalty box, Karius closes him down, squared to Vardy for empty goal. Video linked
3. Livermore's scramble in the box goal for West Brom 
4. Rashford's 2nd for United last month.

Those other two that are to the right but still a little central are Kane's penalty and Gundogan's tapin for City in the 4-3.

Aside from that, all the rest look pretty tight to the post which is good from a positioning point of view. He is covering almost all of his goal almost all of the time. Players are by and large needing to put the ball in the corners of the goal to get anything from him.

My other worry would be the amount of shots beating him on the right vs on his left. More worrying would be that is the hand he broke. This would be a question you would want answered with scouting. However, when you watch back his saves the last two season you can see he is not protecting that hand by letting hard shots past him. He has been diving at players feet with that hand and also making some big saves of hard shots with it (e.g. Diame v Newcastle). So it is just a coincidence in a small data sample.

Looking at the type of shots we are conceding off of, we have massively reduced the number from open play. "Other" would be penalties(2) and indirect free kicks (2).

Now to compare to a Navas.
That looks a bit scattergunny - which would worry me. I won't even bother analysing the shots away from the posts and why here. If he wants to appear to be so shite that almost all the goals he concedes are quite central in the goal, then he needs to pay someone to analyse and justify the reasons for that. It's too much work to do on the fly. :D

Seriously though, here you can start to see the cost of being weak on crosses. Look at how many of those are from indirect freekicks (3) and corners (6). He is conceding a goal from such situations every 2ľ games compared to 4ľ games for Karius. And that is just set pieces. How many goals from open play crosses result from the same weakness to deal with balls in the air?

Navas recently warned Liverpool that he plays behind the best defence in the world. I am sure he is a man of his word. However, if you are ranked 32/96 in terms of goals conceded per 90 behind the best defence in the world®, then there can only be one possible explanation for that.

Calamity Kaylor is fucking shite! :D

Oh, and if you have made it this far, and I am sure few will have because I went completely OTT on this one, then I have one last thing for you. The answer to the question "what might happen on penalties?"

That is pretty close guys. Nothing in it really. Penalties in 90 minutes are rarely saved, truth be told. Something like 81% are scored in the Premier League era. Of the 19% that are not, some will miss the target, some will hit the woodwork, very few are actually saved. Penalties is a different beast though as PoP & Trend will tell you. It's more a mind game than anything else. If you always dive left you will likely save one or two on average. But what if they see you always diving left and just keep sticking them right. If you stand tall if stops them going down the middle and forces them to pick corners to prevent you seeing late and saving any that are too central. But you likely won't get near penalties passed into the corners by the likes of Kroos, Modric, Isco et al. A keeper coach I one spoke to said when in doubt, dive to your left on left footers, right on right footers.

But Liverpool keepers find their own way to handle shoot outs. And Karius comes across as being confident and crazy enough to find his own way to unnerve the Madrid takers too. But this is all redundant because, as I keep mentioning, we are putting 6 past them and turning Kiev into the scene of our very own Red Wedding. An absolute blood bath that will shake people to their very core. But more on that in parts 10-1. For now, here is a some of all Karius best moments this season. You have earned it sticking with me this long. Allez! Allez! Allez!
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/yv6lGICXH7U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/yv6lGICXH7U</a>

Previous Preview Parts:- Intro, 13. Klopp, 12. Travelling Kop

A massive thanks, again, to JCB for all the help in producing all of the above. Without him this would all just be unsubtantiated words on a page.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 04:39:54 am by BabuYagu »
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Offline alonsoisared

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The Spanish remind me of Americans in how they approach sport and talking about their team. Its a very British thing when a yank asks you who your team is and you reply telling them how shite they are. Americans, and the Spanish, just immediately go on about how theyre the best in the world and nobody stands a chance against them. At least thats how it comes across in the press and in interviews.

Of course its not the way for everyone. A lad i know is a season ticket holder at Madrid and hes not watched any champions league final theyve played in due to nerves. Hes convinced theyre losing on Saturday.

Also, who remembers that front page of Marca back in 2009? "Esto es Anfield...y que?"

Fuck off

Offline BabuYagu

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FYI - the other previews will be absolutely nowhere near the length of that one. That was all written over the course of about a week and very much with a point to prove. There simply isn't the time to go into that much detail on the others, even if I wanted to. But on the plus side, the other previews are going to start coming thick and fast :)

Enjoy!  :wave
My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

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Bloody hell... that’s thorough
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Offline Yesitsanextender

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Offline Curtisinho

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Beautiful stuff Babu.

I hope there's a lengthy write-up on why Wijnaldum is going to cause absolute havoc against Real Madrid. I just have a feeling he's going to be the ignition for this team and play a very important role in our victory.
Walk on with hope in your heart and you'll never walk alone.

Offline DHKopper

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 :wellin Baba.  This was a fantastic read.

Offline Qston

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In my 50+ years of supporting this club, I'm looking forward to this final more than any before. This Liverpool team seem a group of lovely lads - likely lads that enjoy each other and the electric football they bring.

When we were winning everything, it was hard not to take it for granted. It is different now. This means more.

If we play the way we know we can, I'll be happy even if we don't win because it will have been one hell of a match and we will have lost to the best CL team of recent years. We will be back next year, and better, too.

If we play the way we know we can, we also have every chance of blowing Madrid away.

This, ladies and gentlemen, might be a game we tell our grandchildren about.

C'mon you Redmen.

Great post
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Offline Red Beret

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Wow... really appreciate the effort there!  :wellin

Let Madrid talk big.  Seem to remember them doing the same thing barely a decade ago and we handed their arse to them over two legs.  I think their players are smarter though - they know it's a big ask to win this competition again.  Fact is, whoever loses will go away with their heads held high. 

Fuck me though, I want this so bad.
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Offline Samie

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Just know if we don't win I'm blaming it all on Babu and his " 13 reasons".

Offline BabuYagu

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Just know if we don't win I'm blaming it all on Babu and his " 13 reasons".

I'll bribe a mod to delete all traces of it and deny it. Or change my name and come back as "Bab the Red". Works in the transfer forum ;) :D
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Offline Nessy76

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FYI - the other previews will be absolutely nowhere near the length of that one. That was all written over the course of about a week and very much with a point to prove. There simply isn't the time to go into that much detail on the others, even if I wanted to. But on the plus side, the other previews are going to start coming thick and fast :)

Enjoy!  :wave

Excellent work from you and JCB there. I've been vocal about my support for Karius since day one, but it's great to see that my gut feeling and impressions actually do tally up with the hard evidence. He is a very good keeper, and still improving. He will never be the one who makes dozens of great saves from the goal mouth, precisely because of the other work he does closing the game down and preventing shots coming in. He is so quick to release the ball and starts so many of our counters, too.
Right now, I wouldn't swap him for any keeper anywhere.
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Offline Geormajesty

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That Trent ball to Salah he did against City into the space for the 1st goal at Anfield.
*Milner. I think even Guardiola said after the game it was Trent, but it was Milner.

Offline scouseman

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Just blitz them from the first whistle. We will be all over them like a swam of bees and they will not have a clue what has hit them. The all have a plan until they get hit. We have the ability and skill to score two or three quick goals.  Invoke the memories of porto away mighty reds. They will not be able to cope with our speed. They will be so punch drunk they will not know what day it is. Keep believing lads and lasses we got this. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 07:41:21 pm by scousemas »

Offline Dr. Beaker

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FYI - the other previews will be absolutely nowhere near the length of that one. That was all written over the course of about a week and very much with a point to prove. There simply isn't the time to go into that much detail on the others, even if I wanted to. But on the plus side, the other previews are going to start coming thick and fast :)

Enjoy!  :wave
Fuckin' 'ell you've turned me into a geek ya bastid. Karius has risen Lucas-like from his own ashes.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 07:48:38 pm by Dr. Beaker »
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Offline Claude Cat

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Thirteen Reasons we are totally beating Real Madrid
#11: Loris Karius

Belter mate! Love reading these.

Offline Purple Red

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Just know if we don't win I'm blaming it all on Babu and his " 13 reasons".
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Offline MinnyRed

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FYI - the other previews will be absolutely nowhere near the length of that one. That was all written over the course of about a week and very much with a point to prove. There simply isn't the time to go into that much detail on the others, even if I wanted to. But on the plus side, the other previews are going to start coming thick and fast :)

Enjoy!  :wave

Feel free to make them long mate, cracking stuff.   :wave

Sorry if I missed it (I looked in your Karius thread explanation as well), how is shot diff. measured?  Love the reference to the unintended consequences of Opta's measurement of 'big chances' actually cut against aggressive keepers, perhaps explaining the conventional wisdom that Migs is a great shot stopper while Karius is poor (neither bit of wisdom supported by much facts but 'eye tests' are deceiving). 

I'm happy to have overcome my confirmation bias on Karius.  I didn't think he was great during his cameos and was fuming after he waved at that free kick in the group stage (Moscow I think).  A bit put off that he let Sane beat him near post as well.  But, there's so much he does do well (as you detail) that I've completely turned around on him.  One thing I've liked in his game, when compared to Migs at least, is he seems to have a much stronger leg so when he has to clear long, it fully relieves pressure.


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« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 08:18:28 pm by JerseyKloppite »

Offline Rush 82

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Thirteen Reasons we are totally beating Real Madrid
#11: Loris Karius

Wow! Hats off to you (and JCB) sir! Hat off!

:wellin

Offline Jay797

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Thirteen Reasons we are totally beating Real Madrid
#11: Loris Karius

snip]
Absolutely brilliant BabuYagu!!!!

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Brilliant stuff Babu


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Offline 24/7

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Wow! Hats off to you (and JCB) sir! Hat off!

:wellin
Outstanding work there by you both. But fess up - how long did all that take?!?! :o

Offline Gnurglan

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Only a few days left now. My advice to everyone going to Kiev is - enjoy it!

Make the most of it. Bring the camera, bring the flags, banners etc. Make it another great night. You will remember it, hell everyone will remember it for as long as we live. I’m old enough to remember 1981, let alone the Finals after that. From ’81 I recall what was discussed with my friend, his dad and my dad, I remember where I was, I remember the winnng goal. Make the most of it. And remember Istanbul - the crowd can make a difference. This club don't make it easy, but nor do we surrender, we find a way. Believe! Support! Make it happen! The club will find its way to new Finals, but it could be your only chance. So enjoy it. Make it a great night!

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline BabuYagu

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Feel free to make them long mate, cracking stuff.   :wave

Sorry if I missed it (I looked in your Karius thread explanation as well), how is shot diff. measured?  Love the reference to the unintended consequences of Opta's measurement of 'big chances' actually cut against aggressive keepers, perhaps explaining the conventional wisdom that Migs is a great shot stopper while Karius is poor (neither bit of wisdom supported by much facts but 'eye tests' are deceiving). 

I'm happy to have overcome my confirmation bias on Karius.  I didn't think he was great during his cameos and was fuming after he waved at that free kick in the group stage (Moscow I think).  A bit put off that he let Sane beat him near post as well.  But, there's so much he does do well (as you detail) that I've completely turned around on him.  One thing I've liked in his game, when compared to Migs at least, is he seems to have a much stronger leg so when he has to clear long, it fully relieves pressure.

I didn't include it, because I was weary over overdoing it with the data (I know, right?  ;D ) but there are measures for how far players can kick the ball in the data too. Karius is kicking the ball 91,9% (I think) of the pitch, which is 96,5 yards which almost the entire length of the pitch. Interestingly though, he seems to aim to drop the ball on their defensive line with most kicks which I suspect is to give us a counterpressing opportunity in their half on a retreating defence with their defensive headers.

Gomes of Watford can throw a ball longer than most keepers are kicking it - which is freakish. His average throw length is 10% more than any other keeper in the league. He gives it away a high proportion of the times which Trend think this is more a circus act talent than a useful skillset to deploy.

My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

Offline BabuYagu

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Outstanding work there by you both. But fess up - how long did all that take?!?! :o

Ages! Getting the data and sorting it all out is the mammoth (unseen) job that JCB does 100% of. Then you have to aggregate it all, put it into tables that I can actually make sense of, then we come up with metrics, JCB turns those into charts and viola. Then it took me about 4 days searching/making gifs, sourcing the other graphics elsewhere then writing it all up.

Hence why the others will not have as much detail. I wouldn't finish it by the time next season starts never mind the final :D
My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

Offline Lone Star Red

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Hard to express what this final means. Since becoming a Liverpool fan in the summer of 2010, I haven't tasted much of the glory that is so often written, sung and talked about. The end of the 13/14 season and the Europa League final still leave bitter tastes in my mouth, more so the Prem than the Europa. So with the chance to see Hendo lift Big Ears in about 98 hours (who's counting, eh?) staring me straight in the face, it's quite tantalizing. Hoping the dreams become reality.

I so badly am trying to just soak this entire journey in and enjoy it but my initial instinct and reaction to thinking about the enormity of this game gets my stomach in knots. But when I am able to calm down and think about it all, it really is amazing to see how far we've come. I just wanted us to get past Hoffenheim when this whole adventure started and now we're on the brink of glory that would be talked about forever.

Madrid are a worthy opponent and are quite rightly the favorites. But I look at our team and I can't help but be filled with the utmost optimism and pride. Bring on Saturday!
You cannot call overseas Liverpool supporters glory hunters. We’ve won one trophy this decade. If they’re glory hunters, they’re really bad ones. They’re actually journey hunters. It’s the journey and the story. Something about Liverpool has grabbed them." - Neil Atkinson (May, 2019)

"So don’t think about it – just play football.” - Jurgen Klopp

Offline Pradan

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Who would our 12 subs be? :lmao

Karius
Klavan
Clyne
Masterson
Moreno
Can
Lallana
Woodburn
Ings
Solanke
Williams
H Kane?

Love how you have Karius on the bench for next season, even after Babu's defence of him above :D

Offline JerseyKloppite

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Love how you have Karius on the bench for next season, even after Babu's defence of him above :D

;D I just read the Karius piece and he was in my head when I was listing! Amended now...

Offline Pradan

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Brilliant this. Nice to see Hansen there.
https://twitter.com/LFC/status/998976785646800896?s=20

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Kross' quotes give the lie to the Real Madrid talking heads - their players know theyre in for a fight

Offline Qston

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Thank you babu and jcb. Illuminating stuff for the uneducated like me. Keep posting stuff like that. Helps a lot of us understand the game so much better.
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Kross' quotes give the lie to the Real Madrid talking heads - their players know theyre in for a fight

I think so as well, and we are completely different to the last two sides they've played in the finals. I hope we play full throttle from the get go

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I think so as well, and we are completely different to the last two sides they've played in the finals. I hope we play full throttle from the get go

I don't think we will even though its getting posted a lot. Klopp rarely 'goes for it' from the off - I suspect the first 10/15 will be tactical and Madrid will drop off at first; they'll be wary of us getting in behind.
Not saying we'll go 90 minutes or even 45 like that but its very rare that we go full out from the start and I suspect Madrid will be briefed to slow us down in this one

Offline BabuYagu

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Sorry if I missed it (I looked in your Karius thread explanation as well), how is shot diff. measured?  Love the reference to the unintended consequences of Opta's measurement of 'big chances' actually cut against aggressive keepers, perhaps explaining the conventional wisdom that Migs is a great shot stopper while Karius is poor (neither bit of wisdom supported by much facts but 'eye tests' are deceiving).

Shot Diff is the xg sum of all shots on target faced divided by the total number of SoT faced.

Most analytics stuff I see is based on xg of all shots, that includes missed, blocked and woodwork shots though which has nothing to do with shot stopping. Liverpool has one of the highest ratios of Shots v SoT faced as well as ratio of saves outside the box to in. Both of which makes sense because against a low block you see lots of frustrated long range shots. Also there is more players between ball and goal with defenders packed into the box which sees more shots blocked or missed entirely due to pressure.

Which is why when looking at just xg against, Karius doesn't come out to well comparatively. But when you strip out all the shots keepers don't save and focus on just shots on target and goals, he actually comes out doing very well.

For example -
Atletico Madrid faced 303 shots this season that were blocked, missed or hit the woodwork.  United faced 291. Liverpool just 177. So crediting keepers for those shots is just going to see keepers in defensive systems or who face lots of shots get a nice bump.

51/105 shots saved by Oblak this season were from outside the box. 49%
46/114 shots saved by De Gea this season were from outside the box. 40%
10/31 shots saved by Karius in the league this season were from outside the box. 32%

So keepers who are in defensive system get to bump their stats with more long range shots that are easier to save.

Then there is the question of perception. If I ask you to think of the best saves Karius made this season, you likely have in your mind the one from Diame, Bolasie and the two from Arnautovic, all of which are from outside the box. Because they just look spectacular. So a keeper who is facing 51 or 46 shots from outside the box is likely going to make lots of spectacular saves during the season than one who is facing 10 shots. Which will slant how they are perceived.

I believe this is where Mignolet picked up his "good shot stopping" tag at Sunderland saving 76% of the shots he faced (40,44% of which were from outside the box). Now he is saving just 59% of the shots he faces at Liverpool. For me it is the cautionary tale of seeing a keeper in a defensive side facing huge volumes of shots and thinking "he could make all those saves here".
My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

Offline the_red_pill

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Next year - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-europa-12-substitutes-4-extra-time-uefa-kick-off-times-qualification-a8275611.html.
That's A LOT of substitutions available! I dunno... makes the game more "Mickey Mouse" for me- more like a friendly; not to mention what it will do with tactical pressure and how you really separate the genial from the average.
I mean why worry about tiredness and game management? Just throw on a brand new team! Where is the opportunity to take your opponent to school tactically?
Doesn't sit right with me, but we'll see I suppose.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 08:49:55 pm by the_red_pill »
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline plura

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Yeah I'm still not sold on Karius, sure he has improved but is he really a top keeper?
Lol, jk. Thanks Babu for that read. Impressive analysis. And I'm glad to see that we have a really good keeper with us to the final.

It's not far away but it's difficult to think about much else this week. How will we start the game? Rapid pressure? Or finding our way into the match a bit slower, to unleash full throttle and hell on them 20-30mins in? Whatever or however we do it, I know we will bring it and that we have all the chances in the world to win this one. As we'll heard see a bunch more well put reasons for it shortly.

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Caught me off guard Babu, thought this was going up tomorrow!

Excellent read, really interesting points about him being a sweeper keeper. It's understandably difficult to analyse keepers on stats but you do a very good job of it there. The Karius radar was worth the wait :D