Author Topic: The Klopp Template  (Read 1060281 times)

Online wemmick

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11120 on: September 18, 2023, 02:20:46 am »
I liked the 4-4-2. I thought we spread the field well with it and killed off their press. Dom and Jones were a handful.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11121 on: September 18, 2023, 06:20:01 am »
Although Klopp likes all his midfielders to be adaptable, good pace, good passing and creativity, good ball carrying ability, able to resist the press, and goal scoring ability, I do believe he still wants a dedicated no 6 and no 8 and no 10 in his formation - players who are at their best in those roles.  Endo is clearly a stop gap at 30, with Bajcetic and another young no 6 who has better press resistance and ball distribution probably his ideal solution in the medium and long term. Bajcetic cannot be over relied upon in the short term with his stress fracture and yet to grow into his body issues. Which is why I remain convinced Andre Trindade is the candidate in January for the club.

As for the no 8 role, we already have Szoboslai and Jones along with Elliott. The no 10 properly sees Macallister there but I beleive Gravenberch was signed to be the ultimate solution there as Klopp likely sees his very similar skill set to Bellingham will allow him, to play in the same kind of role that Bellngham is doing so well at in Real Madrid. Of coiuse Bellonbgham is well ahead of Gravenberch in development, but Gravenberch is one of the players who has the highest chance potentially of being able to emulate Bellingham to some degree.

Offline RedG13

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11122 on: September 18, 2023, 06:47:55 am »
Although Klopp likes all his midfielders to be adaptable, good pace, good passing and creativity, good ball carrying ability, able to resist the press, and goal scoring ability, I do believe he still wants a dedicated no 6 and no 8 and no 10 in his formation - players who are at their best in those roles.  Endo is clearly a stop gap at 30, with Bajcetic and another young no 6 who has better press resistance and ball distribution probably his ideal solution in the medium and long term. Bajcetic cannot be over relied upon in the short term with his stress fracture and yet to grow into his body issues. Which is why I remain convinced Andre Trindade is the candidate in January for the club.

As for the no 8 role, we already have Szoboslai and Jones along with Elliott. The no 10 properly sees Macallister there but I beleive Gravenberch was signed to be the ultimate solution there as Klopp likely sees his very similar skill set to Bellingham will allow him, to play in the same kind of role that Bellngham is doing so well at in Real Madrid. Of coiuse Bellonbgham is well ahead of Gravenberch in development, but Gravenberch is one of the players who has the highest chance potentially of being able to emulate Bellingham to some degree.
Main role wise if going
6(Destroyer)-Bajcetic, Endo
8(Box to Box controller)-Mac Allister, Jones, Thiago(I think maybe he an 6 in this system we will see)
10(Playmaker) Szoboszlai and Elliott

Im not sure where Gravenberch fits, He probably best at 8 but he has all the size and ability to the 6 role if he learns. In the 2 seasons where he was starting every game at Ajax hiis expected  was .10 and .16 which around what Mac Allister and Jones are a worse league.

Szoboszlai and Elliott Creative numbers are the 2 best from midfield in the squad. Szoboszlai put up back to back .3 expected Assists season in the Bundesliga at 20 and 21. He had do other roles and done it well but he best btw the lines creating. Elliott put up .31 Expected assists at 17 in the championship with a .20 expected assist at 19 in the PL.
Gravenberch and Thiago not 100% sure how they fit in the system with Trent has the main playmaker.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11123 on: September 18, 2023, 07:57:00 am »
Only thing I’d say to that red is Klop wants a press resistant and ball progressing destroyer.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11124 on: September 18, 2023, 08:26:36 am »
Main role wise if going
6(Destroyer)-Bajcetic, Endo
8(Box to Box controller)-Mac Allister, Jones, Thiago(I think maybe he an 6 in this system we will see)
10(Playmaker) Szoboszlai and Elliott

Im not sure where Gravenberch fits, He probably best at 8 but he has all the size and ability to the 6 role if he learns. In the 2 seasons where he was starting every game at Ajax hiis expected  was .10 and .16 which around what Mac Allister and Jones are a worse league.

Szoboszlai and Elliott Creative numbers are the 2 best from midfield in the squad. Szoboszlai put up back to back .3 expected Assists season in the Bundesliga at 20 and 21. He had do other roles and done it well but he best btw the lines creating. Elliott put up .31 Expected assists at 17 in the championship with a .20 expected assist at 19 in the PL.
Gravenberch and Thiago not 100% sure how they fit in the system with Trent has the main playmaker.

I dont think Thiago is really needed anymore evne when heis fit,and he never seems to be fit when he may be needed unfortunately.

In order to be the no 8 in our system,the player has to have unearthly levels of physical athleticism and dynamism in addition to excellent ball retention, whch is why I think that Szoboslai especially fits the bill. I do believe that playmaking will be shared between all the midfielders but where the no 10 needs to really thrive is to break forward which is why I think gravenberch has the close ball control and speed and the size anbd physicality to be able to thrive there an to be a direct goal threat as well as make the final pass for the forwards.

Offline RedG13

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11125 on: September 18, 2023, 08:44:59 am »
I dont think Thiago is really needed anymore evne when heis fit,and he never seems to be fit when he may be needed unfortunately.

In order to be the no 8 in our system,the player has to have unearthly levels of physical athleticism and dynamism in addition to excellent ball retention, whch is why I think that Szoboslai especially fits the bill. I do believe that playmaking will be shared between all the midfielders but where the no 10 needs to really thrive is to break forward which is why I think gravenberch has the close ball control and speed and the size anbd physicality to be able to thrive there an to be a direct goal threat as well as make the final pass for the forwards.
Szoboszlai and Elliott are the best at making the final pass is the thing.  Mac Allister and Jones Ball Retention why their more of #8s then #10 they creative too but yea all the advanced midfield roles do a combo of both.
The last thing I see Gravenberch is as #10 type, could be wrong, his creative numbers from the dutch league dont show that at all. My Understanding is he an excellent ball progressor and a little creative, also very good in the air. Will be interesting how he used, He was put on the right wing in the setup last game because Klopp just wanted to give him minutes and was not doing it in the middle of park positions at that time and same from Bundesliga  with his number even with a terrible sample size.

https://fbref.com/en/players/b8e740fb/scout/11250/Ryan-Gravenberch-Scouting-Report

Thiago he still fits and his quality worth playing whenever he gets full fit, his minutes will be managed though is my guess

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11126 on: September 18, 2023, 09:10:35 am »
On Thiago, if Klopp is willing to play Mac at 6 then surely he’ll be willing to play Thiago there?

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11127 on: September 18, 2023, 09:13:28 am »
Anyone get the impression kloppo will extend. All this year 1 talk and staying around for the bobby Clarks

Yes.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11128 on: September 18, 2023, 11:31:26 pm »
I was reading how Guardiola likes defensive minded players because he believes it’s easier to teach them how to move forward rather than vice versa. Then I think of Klopp who tends to sign attacking minded players and teach them how to defend. I find it interesting.
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Offline JJ Red

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11129 on: September 18, 2023, 11:52:43 pm »
If Thiago could stay fit, our midfield could be absolutely awesome. Its such a shame that we can't rely on his availability.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11130 on: September 19, 2023, 12:27:38 am »
On Thiago, if Klopp is willing to play Mac at 6 then surely he’ll be willing to play Thiago there?

Jurgen will certainly use Thiago in the No.6 role, when available ...

Offline n00bert

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11131 on: September 19, 2023, 03:56:13 am »
No it doesn’t, because you aren’t in a 442 with the ball. You can position the players how you want in possession, but when you lose the ball you drop into a 442. Look at Man City last season when they lost the ball, they ended up in a 442 shape out of possession, but with the ball they were masters of keeping the ball and dominating possession with build up from the back.

Yes, it makes sense from a defensive standpoint that once you drop off you go more 442. I’ve seen us back off to a 451 when defending in a low block, 442 in the mid block and 433 when we’re pressing. At the moment it seems quite versatile and we have the players to execute it. Ultimately I think it depends on what’s happening in game - chasing a goal (ala 1-0 down against Wolves), 433. 0-0 approaching half-time and the opponents giving as good as they get - 442. Under pressure defending a 1-0, 451.

And yes, our possession shape can vary massively from shape in possession IMO but I do feel that your out of possession shape affects your ability to transition and / or retain possession.

I’d like to see a bit more of us in 451 but instead of the long one down the middle to break the press to start Darwin sort of in the half space and play it into the channels and get him to run down toward the corner flag to gain territory. Think the couple of times we used that last year Darwin was playing off the shoulder of a CB in the middle and it became much more difficult to transition out. But, it worked to great effect against wolves so …

Offline n00bert

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11132 on: September 19, 2023, 04:25:11 am »
I think Klopp going to keep going with inverting either Trent or Tsimikas and keep that system but is super willing to adjust small stuff or formation etc in the game or switch up for a game if needed. the goal to make Trent the main playmaker from deeper which he is excellent at.
With the all the players who expected to be advanced Midfielders everybody can do multiple roles within the build up. Both the Widers who are supposed to be wider at times can do roles in the Half spaces(Diaz and Salah). It very flexibility.
I expect to keep the 433 defensively most of the time to really makes it hard to go through the middle. If need can be adjusted.
Since the Newcastle goal per Opta no big chances have been given up(will note Cunha should had one but didnt count as a shot)..

I think with Trent, the idea is to play him in the way that will get the most out of his very unique skill set. Trent, like Salah is a bit of a unicorn.  Salah is a left footed, wide forward who plays on the right, who can get you 15 non pen goals, and 15 assists a season. Aren’t too many of those around.

Trent is equally as rare - deep lying playmaker who can sorta defend, not super mobile, but has vision for days and passing technique that makes my eyes water. He’s not athletic or goal-scorey enough to play the 8 in the De Bruyne sense , but he would be wasted at RB, isn’t big enough to play CB, not really a DM because while he can tackle his positional play isn’t phenomenal. But when he gets on it, anywhere in that deeper third in possession, he can fuckin kill ya with a pass.

So with Trent, I think he’ll just give him a bit of a free role in and around that first and second lines in possession, just to pick the ball up and spray a pass. And expect that the rest of the team to adapt around him.

It’s quite unique and I quite like it offensively and in possession but what it means for our shape in transition and in defence remains to be seen. Might be something we use against the likes of the bottom 2/3s of the league, and we go back to something more rigid against the ‘tougher’ teams.

Offline RedG13

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11133 on: September 19, 2023, 04:58:50 am »
I think with Trent, the idea is to play him in the way that will get the most out of his very unique skill set. Trent, like Salah is a bit of a unicorn.  Salah is a left footed, wide forward who plays on the right, who can get you 15 non pen goals, and 15 assists a season. Aren’t too many of those around.

Trent is equally as rare - deep lying playmaker who can sorta defend, not super mobile, but has vision for days and passing technique that makes my eyes water. He’s not athletic or goal-scorey enough to play the 8 in the De Bruyne sense , but he would be wasted at RB, isn’t big enough to play CB, not really a DM because while he can tackle his positional play isn’t phenomenal. But when he gets on it, anywhere in that deeper third in possession, he can fuckin kill ya with a pass.

So with Trent, I think he’ll just give him a bit of a free role in and around that first and second lines in possession, just to pick the ball up and spray a pass. And expect that the rest of the team to adapt around him.

It’s quite unique and I quite like it offensively and in possession but what it means for our shape in transition and in defence remains to be seen. Might be something we use against the likes of the bottom 2/3s of the league, and we go back to something more rigid against the ‘tougher’ teams.
The change in shape last season really improved the defense too is the thing.
So it kinda just fixed everything. Granted like I think it probably better for Trent to be the deeper playmaker and help protect the counter then just bomb and down the wing all the time and put crosses in(still do it but pick the moments).
Obv figuring everything out still but if Trent struggling in a game with that can just put him back in more overlapping Full back role he can do that also. The squad looking to be very versatile and should be able to solve problems which is super important.
Like if Szoboszlai and Elliott had to be a double pivot as a double 6 would feel it work again.
The Trent inverting worked vs the big team last year too also.


Offline n00bert

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11134 on: September 19, 2023, 06:49:01 am »
The change in shape last season really improved the defense too is the thing.
So it kinda just fixed everything. Granted like I think it probably better for Trent to be the deeper playmaker and help protect the counter then just bomb and down the wing all the time and put crosses in(still do it but pick the moments).
Obv figuring everything out still but if Trent struggling in a game with that can just put him back in more overlapping Full back role he can do that also. The squad looking to be very versatile and should be able to solve problems which is super important.
Like if Szoboszlai and Elliott had to be a double pivot as a double 6 would feel it work again.
The Trent inverting worked vs the big team last year too also.

If I remember, we still conceded a fair few decent chances when we changed shape, mostly because teams found to expose the vacated space on the right when Trent came inside. If Ibou wasn’t on it, there were issues. Mind you xGA fell dramatically compared to earlier in the year, but we were still at about a goal per game xGA. Which if I do remember correctly, isn’t great. It was an improvement but I think we’d want to limit xGA to under one a game.

I don’t think that we’ll be seeing Trent stuck out fixed out wide very often anymore, but will see it time to time within games if that’s where the space is. I think one of the perks to have him move about is that it makes him so difficult to pick up from an opponents defensive perspective - like, how and who do you press? Him moving about can single handedly distort any sort of pressing shape that an opponent has. And if they choose to go down the route of man marking him, him moving about can create loads of different corridors unless they go man for man across the board, which is fine if you can match the movement but I think this Liverpool team would make it very very difficult.

I remember there was a team that tried to go man for man against us last season and we tore them to shreds.


Offline RedG13

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11135 on: September 19, 2023, 02:45:56 pm »
If I remember, we still conceded a fair few decent chances when we changed shape, mostly because teams found to expose the vacated space on the right when Trent came inside. If Ibou wasn’t on it, there were issues. Mind you xGA fell dramatically compared to earlier in the year, but we were still at about a goal per game xGA. Which if I do remember correctly, isn’t great. It was an improvement but I think we’d want to limit xGA to under one a game.

I don’t think that we’ll be seeing Trent stuck out fixed out wide very often anymore, but will see it time to time within games if that’s where the space is. I think one of the perks to have him move about is that it makes him so difficult to pick up from an opponents defensive perspective - like, how and who do you press? Him moving about can single handedly distort any sort of pressing shape that an opponent has. And if they choose to go down the route of man marking him, him moving about can create loads of different corridors unless they go man for man across the board, which is fine if you can match the movement but I think this Liverpool team would make it very very difficult.

I remember there was a team that tried to go man for man against us last season and we tore them to shreds.
The XGA was basically a 1 after the  change. It was 1.75 before. if over the season ended up like .95 that title winning Caliber defense(Basically be under 1  fine if you score enough goals), stats wise vs Wolves and Villa it was both under .8(Granted the cunha huge chance was not a shot fyi)

I dont remember a man for man thing that was Leeds with Biesla irc but somebody tried to man mark Trent out of the game more and other just stepped up more with the space they got. Teams will try that again but having other players able to also progress the ball really helps that. Bournemouth did that a lot this season and Szoboszlai and Trent switchcing spots at the start of the buildup really worked for it

Online ScouserAtHeart

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11136 on: September 19, 2023, 05:26:46 pm »
https://www.phaseofplay.com/

Could this be the same person who started this thread
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11137 on: September 19, 2023, 06:32:29 pm »
I dont think we are looking at a system with specialized midfield roles anymore. We want 2 versatile midfielders who will can work their socks off and others who can play centrally or on the outside.

In the current squad,
CM - Thiago, Endo, Bajcetic, Macallister (Endo and Bajcetic could probably play wide midfield but not sure if that's preferred)
CM/RM - Elliott, Szobo
CM/LM - Jones, Gravenberch
Then you have Gakpo who can essentially plug in where needed or as a striker and Diaz/Jota who could play wide midfield. Bobby Clark can maybe grab a few minutes too.

I dont think we need another midfielder at this point. Maybe 1 if Thiago leaving has been confirmed. I would like to see another rapid wide player. There's still a reliance on Diaz/Mo/Nunez to provide those lung bursting rapid runs on counters. Doak could be a 4th option but I'd like one more, perhaps on the younger side.

What's clear is that we expect our midfield to be more aggressive than we were previously, especially with the ball. Our 4-3-3 necessitated a workman like midfield, but the personnel and qualities in the squad feel very different now. We arent looking at specialist midfielders but complete midfielders. Macca/Szobo/Jones/Elliott/Gravenberch/Bajcetic and I'd argue even Endo and Thiago to some extent are all capable of playing deeper or higher up the pitch. Only Endo and Thiago are probably more inclined to a deeper role because of their styles and they are on the older side of the age spectrum here. It is far more likely that they are utilized as finishers who can come in during a tight game and control it to the finish. For starters,  you could have 2/3/4 of the other 6 starting and the system would be unaffected as they are more interchangable with forwards in the newer setup. Its essentially a case of selecting 6 players out of 8 midfielders + 5 forwards each game and a lot of them could play in multiple positions in the six.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11138 on: September 19, 2023, 07:01:36 pm »
I dont think we need another midfielder at this point.
I think we'll know a lot more after we go to City and Arsenal. If we go through that without looking like we needed a specialist ball winner in front of defence we'll be golden.

I'm convinced that Bajcetic is that guy for us but he'll need a good year of development to take over permanently.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11139 on: September 20, 2023, 09:54:33 am »
I dont think we are looking at a system with specialized midfield roles anymore. We want 2 versatile midfielders who will can work their socks off and others who can play centrally or on the outside.

In the current squad,
CM - Thiago, Endo, Bajcetic, Macallister (Endo and Bajcetic could probably play wide midfield but not sure if that's preferred)
CM/RM - Elliott, Szobo
CM/LM - Jones, Gravenberch
Then you have Gakpo who can essentially plug in where needed or as a striker and Diaz/Jota who could play wide midfield. Bobby Clark can maybe grab a few minutes too.

I dont think we need another midfielder at this point. Maybe 1 if Thiago leaving has been confirmed. I would like to see another rapid wide player. There's still a reliance on Diaz/Mo/Nunez to provide those lung bursting rapid runs on counters. Doak could be a 4th option but I'd like one more, perhaps on the younger side.

What's clear is that we expect our midfield to be more aggressive than we were previously, especially with the ball. Our 4-3-3 necessitated a workman like midfield, but the personnel and qualities in the squad feel very different now. We arent looking at specialist midfielders but complete midfielders. Macca/Szobo/Jones/Elliott/Gravenberch/Bajcetic and I'd argue even Endo and Thiago to some extent are all capable of playing deeper or higher up the pitch. Only Endo and Thiago are probably more inclined to a deeper role because of their styles and they are on the older side of the age spectrum here. It is far more likely that they are utilized as finishers who can come in during a tight game and control it to the finish. For starters,  you could have 2/3/4 of the other 6 starting and the system would be unaffected as they are more interchangable with forwards in the newer setup. Its essentially a case of selecting 6 players out of 8 midfielders + 5 forwards each game and a lot of them could play in multiple positions in the six.

In terms of the 2 8s (the LM/RM in your description) I think there’s lots to this. In terms of the 6/DM I think we may end up plugging in different players there who aren’t natural single pivot 6s and who aren’t as defensively talented because we don’t have much choice. Thiago will be injured lots, Bacjetic needs wrapping cotton wool and Endo is still an unknown quantity. But we know just how hard we tried to buy someone for that position in the summer before we were forced into spending £18 million on a relatively unproven 30 year old. So just because we often end up playing a natural 8 in the 6 role and position doesn’t mean we wouldnt rather a more natural 6 to play as a 6. 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 10:26:24 am by Knight »

Offline DiggerJohn

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11140 on: September 20, 2023, 10:24:04 am »
I think in the summer we were looking for the deeper holding type player, that's why we bid for Moises Caicedo and Lavia when that didn't happen Klopp asked for Endo as a stop gap.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11141 on: September 20, 2023, 11:45:01 am »
I think in the summer we were looking for the deeper holding type player, that's why we bid for Moises Caicedo and Lavia when that didn't happen Klopp asked for Endo as a stop gap.

Or January when  Andre Trindade will become available

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11142 on: September 20, 2023, 12:05:33 pm »
His quotes about the Germany job been posted on here? Couldn't be more passionately definite -- love the man.


“I have a loyalty to Liverpool. My heart is here in Liverpool.”

“You can’t just cut out the eight years,” he said. “I signed a contract here and, as far as I can remember, I wasn’t drugged or tied up and had to sign with my mouth!”


Offline Gainsbarre

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11143 on: September 20, 2023, 01:46:35 pm »
His quotes about the Germany job been posted on here? Couldn't be more passionately definite -- love the man.


“I have a loyalty to Liverpool. My heart is here in Liverpool.”

“You can’t just cut out the eight years,” he said. “I signed a contract here and, as far as I can remember, I wasn’t drugged or tied up and had to sign with my mouth!”



Sounds like he's ready for four more years!

Sign him till 2030, I say...
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Offline DiggerJohn

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11144 on: September 20, 2023, 01:51:24 pm »
Love the way on an emotional and intellectual level Klopp gets the club and the city. 4 more years 4 more years

Offline jepovic

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11145 on: September 22, 2023, 09:41:58 am »
Slow starters this season.
First halves:         6  2 1 3  5-5    7
Second halves      6  5 1 0  10-0  16

Basically, first half is almost relegation level territory, second half is a crushing it

This despite getting players sent off in two games, meaning that two of those second halves were played with 10 men

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11146 on: September 22, 2023, 09:45:00 am »
Think a lot of the first half stuff is that opposition teams put a LOT of effort into countering us with their pressing.  They always drop off in the second half.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11147 on: September 22, 2023, 09:54:05 am »
Quite like that purple hoodie he's sporting, is that in the shop?
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11148 on: September 22, 2023, 09:54:31 am »
Think a lot of the first half stuff is that opposition teams put a LOT of effort into countering us with their pressing.  They always drop off in the second half.
It's probably a good way to try and beat us though to be fair. Got to take some kind of risk and it's going to be a free hit for a lot of teams not expecting points. If teams just sit in we've got a lot of attacking quality for 90 minutes and seem better at trying to break that down then playing through an aggressive press at the moment.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11149 on: September 22, 2023, 09:57:04 am »
Think a lot of the first half stuff is that opposition teams put a LOT of effort into countering us with their pressing.  They always drop off in the second half.

Bar their goal which was a 1 in a 100 worldie I can't recall them really threatening us much first half, most half chances they got were due to a bit of sloppiness which was to be expected with the rustiness.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11150 on: September 22, 2023, 10:19:41 am »
It's probably a good way to try and beat us though to be fair. Got to take some kind of risk and it's going to be a free hit for a lot of teams not expecting points. If teams just sit in we've got a lot of attacking quality for 90 minutes and seem better at trying to break that down then playing through an aggressive press at the moment.

I would say there are two ways really. Modern coaches love to copy Klopp and Ped and play a highline and press us high up the pitch and look to go after our pivots.

There is also the drop into a low block and look to take advantage of our weakness at 6 on the transition. Basically doing an Ancelotti. I think the West Ham game may well be a case of the latter and it will be interesting to see how we cope with the likes of Antonio and Bowen during transitions.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11151 on: September 22, 2023, 10:20:42 am »
Bar their goal which was a 1 in a 100 worldie I can't recall them really threatening us much first half, most half chances they got were due to a bit of sloppiness which was to be expected with the rustiness.

We conceded an almost carbon copy goal in preseason and maybe it is something we need to look at.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11152 on: September 22, 2023, 10:23:41 am »
I think it was just a well worked set piece and a brilliant hit.  They blocked off players to give the guy on the box space and he hit it as clean as can be.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11153 on: September 22, 2023, 10:40:12 am »
Not sure if people are aware but West Ham's set-pieces are gonna be a major problem on Sunday.

With Ward-Prowse's world-class set-piece delivery their grocks are a bigger threat than ever. Darwin starting is an absolute must as Virgil and Ibou will need all the help they can get.

Obviously if we take care of the ball their set-piece threat will be limited but even if we limit them to a couple of restarts in our half we'll have our hands full.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11154 on: September 22, 2023, 11:28:06 am »
I think it was just a well worked set piece and a brilliant hit.  They blocked off players to give the guy on the box space and he hit it as clean as can be.

It is an area we do tend to leave open though. We have 8 men in two banks on the edge of the six-yard box, one player stopping a short corner and one player stationed on the 18-yard line but ahead of the penalty spot. We tend to completely ignore the space behind the semi-circle on the edge of the box.

Both Karslruher and LASK scored after hitting driven set pieces into that area. With West Ham coming up maybe it is something we need to look at because they have the potential to crowd the area and Bowen to find Ward-Prowse on the edge of the area from a set-piece.   
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11155 on: September 22, 2023, 11:31:31 am »
Think a lot of the first half stuff is that opposition teams put a LOT of effort into countering us with their pressing.  They always drop off in the second half.

It makes sense that they press us as we're pretty terrible at playing the ball out of the back.  As the Villa game showed, when you give us time on the ball we'll rip teams apart. 

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11156 on: September 22, 2023, 11:38:42 am »
It is an area we do tend to leave open though. We have 8 men in two banks on the edge of the six-yard box, one player stopping a short corner and one player stationed on the 18-yard line but ahead of the penalty spot. We tend to completely ignore the space behind the semi-circle on the edge of the box.

Both Karslruher and LASK scored after hitting driven set pieces into that area. With West Ham coming up maybe it is something we need to look at because they have the potential to crowd the area and Bowen to find Ward-Prowse on the edge of the area from a set-piece.
Klopp said after the game that Gravenberch was the player closing down the LASK player before he shot but he shouldn't have been the closest player. There was someone out of position who would should have been closer and would have been able to block the shot.   
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11157 on: September 22, 2023, 12:07:10 pm »
Klopp said after the game that Gravenberch was the player closing down the LASK player before he shot but he shouldn't have been the closest player. There was someone out of position who would should have been closer and would have been able to block the shot.   

Thanks that's interesting.

Generally, we set up for corners and free kicks near the corner flag with two banks. Basically a line of six pretty much in a line from the front post to back post and then two blockers just outside the 6 yard box one near post and one central. If it isn't the 2nd blocker in this case Gravenberch's job to cover that area then for me it must be Doak who has been sucked too far forward and left the area open.

For the Karlsruher goal it was Bobby Clark on the 18-yard line. So maybe it is just inexperienced players ending up under the ball. 
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11158 on: September 22, 2023, 03:32:16 pm »
It makes sense that they press us as we're pretty terrible at playing the ball out of the back.  As the Villa game showed, when you give us time on the ball we'll rip teams apart.

I think we’ll fix this but we definitely need to. Robertson is a weak link in this area, struggles when put under pressure.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #11159 on: September 22, 2023, 03:34:39 pm »
It is an area we do tend to leave open though. We have 8 men in two banks on the edge of the six-yard box, one player stopping a short corner and one player stationed on the 18-yard line but ahead of the penalty spot. We tend to completely ignore the space behind the semi-circle on the edge of the box.

Both Karslruher and LASK scored after hitting driven set pieces into that area. With West Ham coming up maybe it is something we need to look at because they have the potential to crowd the area and Bowen to find Ward-Prowse on the edge of the area from a set-piece.

Are you accusing of Klopp making a tactical mistake?
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