Author Topic: Lawless Liverpool?  (Read 188920 times)

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #800 on: August 24, 2022, 09:46:35 pm »
Liverpool has the press because it's a 9 year old girl that died, bless her. But this isn't a one city thing. End of July London had a couple days of about 3 shootings ending in deaths. Just last week there was 4 stabbings in London in the space of 3 days. I've not done any looking, but I bet I can find loads of others from around other cities.

The media needs to start reporting these as failings of the country, because that is what they are, rather than focussing on local policing.
Yep. Came down to London the other day via the A40, driving by Greenford I see an old fella with face covered in blood and some lads surrounding him (trying to help), mobility scooter not far.

His stabbing (murder) made the BBC headlines later in the day.

Cuts to the police (as useless as they generally are) and perhaps the current economic climate, could all be why it's escalating everywhere.

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #801 on: August 24, 2022, 10:48:09 pm »
I know they do all of those things now (and more) that's why I said they would concentrate more on etc

You keep on mentioning the death in South - and I guess you also mean Central - America so you're saying a global legalisation of the drugs trade?

That ain't gonna happen kid - not just because of what I've said, but because of all the world cultures, faiths, religions, politics, dictatorships etc etc need I go on? And if just one of them says no then the whole idea fails.

There's definitely an argument to be had, but without the main protagonist sitting around the table - the criminal community - then we're not really going to go very far are we?

Illegal drugs are here to stay - I guess if we (the world/human beings) have to accept that they (they being Class A) will always be illegal.

There is no simplistic answer.

Thing is these countries don´t want drug prohibition.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/21/americas/colombia-marijuana-bill-war-on-drugs-intl-cmd/index.html

https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/why-mexico-s-new-president-wants-to-legalize-marijuana-and-end-the-war-on-drugs/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/19/otto-molina-war-drugs-guatemala

https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-study/marijuana-legalisation-in-uruguay


All those deaths that happen in countries like Colombia and Mexico are happening because of prohibition in Europe and America - which is where the markets are. Deaths in these countries in the many thousands due to the drugs trade started after the West declared its War on Drugs, not before. These countries effectively have to suffer the devastating knock on effects of Western societal puritinism

Drugs haven´t always been illegal as we know it. They were made illegal in the 1970s in the Western World, in part because Conservatives in the United States were scared of hippies (I´m not even exaggerating). Nixon declared The War on Drugs and the rest of the Western world followed suit. There is no simplistic answers no. Which is why we can start by reversing what clearly isn´t working, and has not been working for the 50 odd years. There are many other societal, policial, cultural and economic issues that need to be dealt with. But quite simply, we can start by depriving organised crime of what is its main profit margin by a long long distance
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 11:00:56 pm by Indomitable_Carp »

Offline John C

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #802 on: August 24, 2022, 11:09:21 pm »
How so? Anything that has the potential to be dangerously and destructively addictive should never be made legal. We've all seen the damage an alcohol addiction can cause..
You're correct mate, in addition to the points you make many people end up suffering from mental health issues or psychosis in some cases.

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #803 on: August 25, 2022, 12:21:38 am »
It´s not THE answer. It´s part of a wider long term solution though.


The trouble, as has been said, that when you make something illegal you do two things;


1. You glamourise it (which increases the demand, sometimes from a particular part of society which can be closer to illegality because breaking the law and societies norms is part of a lifestyle choice and the debt from drug use can drive you there afterwards)
2. You reduce, and specialise, the supply


So, price is high, profits are high, as well as the need to commit crime from those on lower income users is incentivised. Every time there is a major drugs bust, you reduce the supply and increase the price (and the profits of those suppliers who were not busted)


We've all seen, locally, people living lifestyles that can only be funded by the sort of tax free money that drug supply brings, this (and the way parts of the media portray that lifestyle and gangster culture, historic or otherwise) glamourises suppliers further.


We saw all this in the era of prohibition, the trouble is that once alcohol was legalised again, it was too late. You'd created a gangster culture and all that happened was that those who had made money from alcohol had to move into something else to maintain their lifestyle, the cat was out of the bag. Not surprising that protection rackets were part of this because the disease had created people who had become good at violence.


Would legalising drugs work, I'm not sure, look at the opium dens and wars in China in the 19th century, it brought down China as a leading world power in many ways (albeit helped by British aggression) and they are only now regaining what they lost. I'm not sure what the solution is but getting the cat back in the bag in terms of demand and supply has no easy solutions.


Smoking was never fully banned, I have a feeling that the lack of sexiness in vaping has done for this, no-one has managed to create a marketing for vaping like Marlborough Man but it took many, many years to create that type of image in the first place. You don't see many smokers about these days, ask yourself not why people cannot give it up, but why they start in the first place, that's where the long term solution lies, stopping that.


Drug use, unemployment, boredom, the pushing of drugs on the street to the vulnerable or easily influenced, the glamour of illegality......



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Offline ToneLa

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« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 08:04:32 am by ToneLa »

Offline liverbloke

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #805 on: August 25, 2022, 08:23:16 am »
Thing is these countries don´t want drug prohibition.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/21/americas/colombia-marijuana-bill-war-on-drugs-intl-cmd/index.html

https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/why-mexico-s-new-president-wants-to-legalize-marijuana-and-end-the-war-on-drugs/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/19/otto-molina-war-drugs-guatemala

https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-study/marijuana-legalisation-in-uruguay


All those deaths that happen in countries like Colombia and Mexico are happening because of prohibition in Europe and America - which is where the markets are. Deaths in these countries in the many thousands due to the drugs trade started after the West declared its War on Drugs, not before. These countries effectively have to suffer the devastating knock on effects of Western societal puritinism

Drugs haven´t always been illegal as we know it. They were made illegal in the 1970s in the Western World, in part because Conservatives in the United States were scared of hippies (I´m not even exaggerating). Nixon declared The War on Drugs and the rest of the Western world followed suit. There is no simplistic answers no. Which is why we can start by reversing what clearly isn´t working, and has not been working for the 50 odd years. There are many other societal, policial, cultural and economic issues that need to be dealt with. But quite simply, we can start by depriving organised crime of what is its main profit margin by a long long distance

We both agree that drug use, the illegal manufacture of drugs and are aware of the many implications surrounding that particular criminal activity that actively devastates lives, kills communities, murders people, enslaves, but most of all, funds the money machine that the criminals use to perpetuate it.

But I can't see an answer.

Within our everyday society everything has a criminal element attached to it. We freely legally produce food but there's a massive criminal trade in illegal foods, the movement of fowl, beef and fruit and vegetables. Clothing is freely legally manufactured and if you pop down to your local Paddy's Market then you can buy counterfeit goods with ease. Lots of law-abiding (not really as they are still funding the criminals) people buy a blag handbag or a pair of trainers.

In fact, it's arguable that counterfeit goods are more productive at making money for the criminals than drugs as more people are liable to buy goods than take drugs.

The only answer I can see - and one that would change the world - is for people to change.

If we all 'changed' for the better then the world would undoubtedly be a better place.

So if we all look at ourselves and the next time someone is driving too slowly (they're most probably driving safer than you (not you personally Carp but we as a people in general)) in front of you and you're getting frustrated and driving up their arse then STOP and take a minute to look at yourself.

If you are getting frustrated at someone taking their time at a till in the supermarket then STOP look at yourself.

You cannot watch the news and think 'look at all the badness in the world I wish it was a better place for me and my kids' and then yourself act badly.

Basically, simplistically, if we didn't buy from the criminals - and, as mentioned, that would include counterfeit goods, heroin, coke, weed, alcohol, cigarettes, clothing, electrical goods, games etc etc fucking etc - then we would beat them.

But basically, simplistically, that ain't gonna happen fella

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Offline boots

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #806 on: August 25, 2022, 09:14:11 am »
Drugs themselves are not the main issue. People are the main issue. Most people can enjoy a pint without resort to getting shitfaced but some have to get absolutely plastered. Its the same with drugs, people have to get absolutely caned. Drugs taken responsibly and in moderation can be fun and enjoyable. But people always decide to get fucked. I smoke pot mildly, responsibly in my own home. Mainly to control my insomnia. I dont get wasted, I get mildly chilled and thats enough. I can sleep. I can read and function perfectly whilst chilled. I dont ride my motorbike, Im not an idiot. I source my pot responsibly too. From a hippy who grows enough for himself and not for profit. Nice guy, loves fungus and is very interesting. Mycelia is a very interesting topic.

People have issues, hang ups, frustrations. Are disenfranchised, redundant, beaten, abused and left to wither. Education is wasted or barely provided. People are bullied, inimidated and disadvantaged by a society that doesnt care for them. Mental health issues ensue and drugs can numb the pain. There is nothing the tories love more than a stupid society full of poorly educated and easily influenced people. So why tackle it?

Legalising drugs, will just mean the tories get another revenue stream, coz who do you think will profit?

We need to get back to being a caring and enclusive society, if indeed we ever had one. That values people. We need to invest heavily in education and not all of it academic. Not everyone loves physics and not everyone can plaster a wall. Invest in our children and look after our sick and elderly. Make a society that cares. Invest in health and NHS. Support your neighbours.

Drugs are a symptom of a failing society that works for a pitiful few rich parasites. They wont do anything to change that. Legalising just turns a criminal into a businessman. Its businessman and their selfish self interest that enables all of this.

We need to learn from the French, who had a solution as far back as 1789ish. It should be blindingly obvious when someone as anachronistic as Rees Mogg is in parliament that our polity has failed us and now looks after itself and itself alone.

Drugs arent the issue. The rich are the issue and its time to move them on. Tories will never care about you or do anything to change the status quo which keeps them where they are. Drug money is just another revenue stream, that i have no doubt filters through to the tories and the wealthy.

This is just an opinion. Yes, Ive seen 1st hand and up close the affects of hard drugs. I lived on the 10th floor of a 22 storey concrete tower block in a SE London estate. My flat was 1 of 4 on my floor. The other 3 were crack houses. It was living there that made me decide to get the education that poverty prohibited. A forward thinking Labour council that allowed me to do A levels whilst signing on. I got my degree and have been a taxpayer ever since. I even own my own flat. Mortgage free now.

If we help people to help themselves we will all benefit as a society. Thats what government should be for. The current one just wants them to benefit at our expense and lets our brothers and sisters drown in a quagmire of poverty and despair. Who in turn turn to drugs and so on goes the cycle.

The State is responsible for all our ills and it is time to get the pitchforks out.


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Offline -Willo-

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #807 on: August 25, 2022, 09:36:18 am »
We need to get back to being a caring and enclusive society, if indeed we ever had one.

Just can't see it ever going back because of the internet.

You used to have to interact and be apart of a community to get by, nowadays everyone is solo with a handful of friends at most.


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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #808 on: August 25, 2022, 09:52:15 am »
Facebook and its ilk is just another mode of social control. I do not do social media. But I see enough of it to know it is a tool to control the masses as effective as religion.

I am not as pessimistic about it. I have faith in people that eventually change will happen. I have to retain that hope otherwise I may as well blow my brains out. Another thing they want. Well, I am not going to give up my hope and faith in people. Because then 'they' win.

Get educated, get active and belligerant and angry. Get the guillotine. The young people are our future and our saviours. 'They' are fucking their young lives up and I remain enthusiastic that the young will change things. We failed them, we tried. But we're old and beaten down now. Its up to them now and those who follow. Change has to come. Onwards and upwards Rodders. Up The Youngsters!

You gotta remain optimistic. I'm a cynical optimist. I will still hope even though I know shit will happen.
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Offline gregor

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #809 on: August 25, 2022, 11:25:32 am »
Taking drug use out of the hands of criminals?

So the criminals concentrate on people trafficking - so do we then legalise that to take it out of the hands of the criminals?

Okay so we legalise people trafficking so the criminals concentrate on child pornography - so we legalise that to take it out of the hands of the criminals.

The criminals concentrate on gun running - so we legalise gun running... you see where this argument and basically the whole world goes if we take this direction don't you?

Yes, down the shitter.

You have a point but in reality it's the same argument you used for prohibition that negates your own argument - the gangsters moved on to the next thing.



Have to say this is one of the more bizarre arguments I've seen against drug legalisation. The criminals will concentrate on child pornography and people trafficking? First of all, if you think there is as high a demand for child pornography as there is for drugs then you're on another planet. Secondly, a child is directly harmed by child pornography. Nobody is harmed by someone taking a pill on a night out, except for an extremely minute possibility of themselves.

Criminalising people for what they choose to put into their own body has always been not only morally wrong, but completely pointless. They'll do it anyway - as we know. Nobody is going to be running round Liverpool shooting people over child porn mate.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #810 on: August 25, 2022, 11:51:56 am »
Imagine murdering your own mum by mistake, the daft twat.

He obviously went out armed to damage someone else but ended up killing his own mum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-62667633

Offline liverbloke

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #811 on: August 25, 2022, 12:00:13 pm »
Have to say this is one of the more bizarre arguments I've seen against drug legalisation. The criminals will concentrate on child pornography and people trafficking? First of all, if you think there is as high a demand for child pornography as there is for drugs then you're on another planet. Secondly, a child is directly harmed by child pornography. Nobody is harmed by someone taking a pill on a night out, except for an extremely minute possibility of themselves.

Criminalising people for what they choose to put into their own body has always been not only morally wrong, but completely pointless. They'll do it anyway - as we know. Nobody is going to be running round Liverpool shooting people over child porn mate.

You totally missed my point but that's okay - try not to concentrate on child pornography, the point I was making was that they would concentrate their dealings on other 'ventures' I guess using child pornography was just making a sensationalist point

but reading a lot of the comments on here - methinks people are in denial about their own involvement with drug use and how they too are complicit in feeding the monster

again - if it's illegal then you are funding and perpetuating crime full stop


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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #812 on: August 25, 2022, 12:02:27 pm »
We both agree that drug use, the illegal manufacture of drugs and are aware of the many implications surrounding that particular criminal activity that actively devastates lives, kills communities, murders people, enslaves, but most of all, funds the money machine that the criminals use to perpetuate it.

But I can't see an answer.

Within our everyday society everything has a criminal element attached to it. We freely legally produce food but there's a massive criminal trade in illegal foods, the movement of fowl, beef and fruit and vegetables. Clothing is freely legally manufactured and if you pop down to your local Paddy's Market then you can buy counterfeit goods with ease. Lots of law-abiding (not really as they are still funding the criminals) people buy a blag handbag or a pair of trainers.

In fact, it's arguable that counterfeit goods are more productive at making money for the criminals than drugs as more people are liable to buy goods than take drugs.

The only answer I can see - and one that would change the world - is for people to change.

If we all 'changed' for the better then the world would undoubtedly be a better place.

So if we all look at ourselves and the next time someone is driving too slowly (they're most probably driving safer than you (not you personally Carp but we as a people in general)) in front of you and you're getting frustrated and driving up their arse then STOP and take a minute to look at yourself.

If you are getting frustrated at someone taking their time at a till in the supermarket then STOP look at yourself.

You cannot watch the news and think 'look at all the badness in the world I wish it was a better place for me and my kids' and then yourself act badly.

Basically, simplistically, if we didn't buy from the criminals - and, as mentioned, that would include counterfeit goods, heroin, coke, weed, alcohol, cigarettes, clothing, electrical goods, games etc etc fucking etc - then we would beat them.

But basically, simplistically, that ain't gonna happen fella


I do like your style, and your optimism. In essence I agree, personal morality is really important and if we expect governments to make the world a better place we will wait a long time. Every act of selfishness, greed, cruelty, violence, unpleasantness has an impact on others and probably repercussions over time. We are getting into the realms of spirituality in world where religious belief has almost evaporated but has left a vacuum (and I'm not disputing violence was probably worse when religious belief was at higher levels).


We are closer to animals than most of us would believe, what separates us is self awareness and an understanding of morality. Take that away and we become one of the worst species on the planet. Just look at what humans have done to each other (and still do) and see how many examples you get out there where other species sink so low.
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #813 on: August 25, 2022, 12:10:00 pm »
You totally missed my point but that's okay - try not to concentrate on child pornography, the point I was making was that they would concentrate their dealings on other 'ventures' I guess using child pornography was just making a sensationalist point

but reading a lot of the comments on here - methinks people are in denial about their own involvement with drug use and how they too are complicit in feeding the monster
again - if it's illegal then you are funding and perpetuating crime full stop


Agreed, just look what the gangsters did after prohibition was ended, they moved into Las Vegas, gambling, protection, trade unions, construction and planning (a la Hatton), extortion, kidknapping, loan sharking. They'd developed a set of skills which had meant easy money for little actual work (and probably a job they enjoyed), they were not going to give and get a job in a factory or shop.


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Offline Qston

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #814 on: August 25, 2022, 12:30:40 pm »

I do like your style, and your optimism. In essence I agree, personal morality is really important and if we expect governments to make the world a better place we will wait a long time. Every act of selfishness, greed, cruelty, violence, unpleasantness has an impact on others and probably repercussions over time. We are getting into the realms of spirituality in world where religious belief has almost evaporated but has left a vacuum (and I'm not disputing violence was probably worse when religious belief was at higher levels).


We are closer to animals than most of us would believe, what separates us is self awareness and an understanding of morality. Take that away and we become one of the worst species on the planet. Just look at what humans have done to each other (and still do) and see how many examples you get out there where other species sink so low.

This is huge part of the problem. I appreciate that it isn`t just as simple as this, but so many young people are not being brought up to treat people with respect. The clear boundaries I had when I was growing up seem to have ebbed away over the years with young kids nowadays. I see it with my daughter's friends and people she goes to school with. You see it with kids speeding everywhere on electric bikes pulling wheelies in the middle of a main road, stealing things, destroying things and even simple things like dropping litter. Not so long ago that was something you saw relatively rarely but nowadays you see it everyday. As ever it is never black and white. There are a lack of services, funding and many other factors but some of this starts at home and the way kids are being brought up.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #815 on: August 25, 2022, 01:12:07 pm »
This is huge part of the problem. I appreciate that it isn`t just as simple as this, but so many young people are not being brought up to treat people with respect. The clear boundaries I had when I was growing up seem to have ebbed away over the years with young kids nowadays. I see it with my daughter's friends and people she goes to school with. You see it with kids speeding everywhere on electric bikes pulling wheelies in the middle of a main road, stealing things, destroying things and even simple things like dropping litter. Not so long ago that was something you saw relatively rarely but nowadays you see it everyday. As ever it is never black and white. There are a lack of services, funding and many other factors but some of this starts at home and the way kids are being brought up.
You need to take driving tests to drive a car etc but anyone can have kids, am not suggesting people should sit in judgement on who can have or not have kids am just making the point of people raising their kids badly.
A lot of kids have grown up with terrible guidance, the you have to take what you want in this world lad, nobody is going to give it you. parents who are more likely to get angry with the people who rebuke their kids for being nasty rather than telling their kids off for being nasty. defending their kids when they are totally out of order. not telling a kid off when he's done something wrong leads to children growing up without a conscience, they don't care about the misery they cause as long as they get what they want.
Thing what scares me the most is just how stupid many of these kids are today. we had bad lads when I was a kid but I don't think they were as stupid as some of the kids I see today.
We should be looking at the parents of young children to solve many of the problems we face these days.

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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #816 on: August 25, 2022, 01:15:20 pm »
This is huge part of the problem. I appreciate that it isn`t just as simple as this, but so many young people are not being brought up to treat people with respect. The clear boundaries I had when I was growing up seem to have ebbed away over the years with young kids nowadays. I see it with my daughter's friends and people she goes to school with. You see it with kids speeding everywhere on electric bikes pulling wheelies in the middle of a main road, stealing things, destroying things and even simple things like dropping litter. Not so long ago that was something you saw relatively rarely but nowadays you see it everyday. As ever it is never black and white. There are a lack of services, funding and many other factors but some of this starts at home and the way kids are being brought up.


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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #817 on: August 25, 2022, 01:38:28 pm »
You need to take driving tests to drive a car etc but anyone can have kids, am not suggesting people should sit in judgement on who can have or not have kids am just making the point of people raising their kids badly.
A lot of kids have grown up with terrible guidance, the you have to take what you want in this world lad, nobody is going to give it you. parents who are more likely to get angry with the people who rebuke their kids for being nasty rather than telling their kids off for being nasty. defending their kids when they are totally out of order. not telling a kid off when he's done something wrong leads to children growing up without a conscience, they don't care about the misery they cause as long as they get what they want.
Thing what scares me the most is just how stupid many of these kids are today. we had bad lads when I was a kid but I don't think they were as stupid as some of the kids I see today.
We should be looking at the parents of young children to solve many of the problems we face these days.

Spot on. I saw it with my own eyes. My daughter was attacked at school and I use the word correctly. She was minding her own business and this girl launched at her head. I saw the CCTV footage and it was clearly assault. Daughter required hospital treatment. The school took action. They asked me what I wanted out of it and I said I don`t want to wreck this kids life but she needs to take responsibility as do the parents. Cue the dad being belligerent about it and actually being aggressive to the deputy head trying to deal with it. I wasn`t in that meeting but was told all about it. The girl was expelled (sorry - excluded) and it was everyone elses fault. Do we blame the kid who clearly sees aggression as the response to everything at home or the parents ?  Simple - the parents. Thing is, if she and him had been contrite I would have actually tried to help her not be expelled.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #818 on: August 25, 2022, 02:21:28 pm »
I dont get it,

How could the lad who was shot sit in the house with a dead child whilst waiting for his mates to pick him up to take him Hospital.

We need to get stricter rules in this country for people like this, stop people like this breeding, he will be out of jail in 10 years and start a family, then his kids will be useless to society too, why are we allowing little rats to breed.

Do you know about the history of eugenics?

Also people can and do come from difficult families to be decent people, i am and do work with people from this background. 
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #819 on: August 25, 2022, 02:34:09 pm »
Spot on. I saw it with my own eyes. My daughter was attacked at school and I use the word correctly. She was minding her own business and this girl launched at her head. I saw the CCTV footage and it was clearly assault. Daughter required hospital treatment. The school took action. They asked me what I wanted out of it and I said I don`t want to wreck this kids life but she needs to take responsibility as do the parents. Cue the dad being belligerent about it and actually being aggressive to the deputy head trying to deal with it. I wasn`t in that meeting but was told all about it. The girl was expelled (sorry - excluded) and it was everyone elses fault. Do we blame the kid who clearly sees aggression as the response to everything at home or the parents ?  Simple - the parents. Thing is, if she and him had been contrite I would have actually tried to help her not be expelled.
I know what you mean, went through a similar situation with my lad. good lad, never gone out looking for trouble but could defend himself. started in a college, some horrible bully thought he could look good bullying him infront of a few the kids. lad told him to piss off and walked past him. he waitied for my lad at the college door and blocked him from entering shouting insults and daring him to fight him. my lad lost it and just dropped him with a few punches, I was called to the school and the head admitted this lad was a bully who had been given at least 5 warnings for bullying and fighting but they had decided to expel this lad this time, she then said my lad will be expelled if it happens again. refused to accept the warning and told her she put my lad and others in danger by not expelling the lad and that was it. lad came back with bravado few days later but backed down when he stood up to him again.
Point is the school looked for the easy way out, I never met the lads parents but I imagine they were nasty as well and the school didn't fancy standing up to them, I was reasonable so they probably thought I wouldn't give them the same aggro.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 02:35:53 pm by oldfordie »
Chris Bryant

It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
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Offline B0151?

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #820 on: August 25, 2022, 02:52:40 pm »
Just can't see it ever going back because of the internet.

You used to have to interact and be apart of a community to get by, nowadays everyone is solo with a handful of friends at most.

We don't want things to get worse and especially when something like this happens then it makes it all the more important that we do what we can to stop it. But the fact remains that crime and violent crime was worse in the early 00s and 90s than it is now. Last year was actually the least reported shootings we've had in 21st century on Merseyside
 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyside-gun-attacks-2021-shootings-22559380.amp

For me personally, the back in my childhood days saw the likes of Rhys Jones, Anthony Walker happen so the idea there's something wrong with society now compared with then just doesn't seem true.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #821 on: August 25, 2022, 02:56:08 pm »
We don't want things to get worse and especially when something like this happens then it makes it all the more important that we do what we can to stop it. But the fact remains that crime and violent crime was worse in the early 00s and 90s than it is now. Last year was actually the least reported shootings we've had in 21st century on Merseyside
 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyside-gun-attacks-2021-shootings-22559380.amp

For me personally, the back in my childhood days saw the likes of Rhys Jones, Anthony Walker happen so the idea there's something wrong with society now compared with then just doesn't seem true.

I think Fordie and myself are older than you so it is a different perspective more generally on kids nowadays compared to when we were growing up and the influences at home
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #822 on: August 25, 2022, 03:10:28 pm »
I think Fordie and myself are older than you so it is a different perspective more generally on kids nowadays compared to when we were growing up and the influences at home
Yeah. One thing that never seems to get mentioned these days is the effect of starting work in a factory etc . working with adults who soon matured you.
A lot of kids leave school today and only mix with other immature kids.
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It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
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Offline Qston

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #823 on: August 25, 2022, 03:19:05 pm »
Yeah. One thing that never seems to get mentioned these days is the effect of starting work in a factory etc . working with adults who soon matured you.
A lot of kids leave school today and only mix with other immature kids.

Yup. I started working in my summer holidays when I was about 14 and with adults. Soon helped me grow up pretty quickly. Had to have thick skin as well !
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #824 on: August 25, 2022, 03:26:32 pm »
Yup. I started working in my summer holidays when I was about 14 and with adults. Soon helped me grow up pretty quickly. Had to have thick skin as well !
Same with me, 15. soon had money in my pocket to enjoy a good night out. thinking about it, hanging around on the streets with m8s ended as soon as I got a job.
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It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
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Offline Qston

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #825 on: August 25, 2022, 04:09:53 pm »
Same with me, 15. soon had money in my pocket to enjoy a good night out. thinking about it, hanging around on the streets with m8s ended as soon as I got a job.

Get you with your young persons text speak  :D ;)
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #826 on: August 25, 2022, 04:45:47 pm »
Get you with your young persons text speak  :D ;)
:lmao
Reminds me of a brother a few years older than me when he first got a Laptop around 7rs ago. set it up for him and taught him the basics,  started sending him the odd email and some had LOL in. few years later LOL was brought up and he seemed to misunderstand what it meant so I asked him do you know what LOL means. think so he says. Lots of Love isn't it. I went into hysterics and said all these years ive sent you emails with LOL and you thought I was saying lots of love every now and then, he's laughing his head off telling me yeah, thought it was a bit strange but didn't want to say anything. ;D
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It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #827 on: August 25, 2022, 05:02:00 pm »
:lmao
Reminds me of a brother a few years older than me when he first got a Laptop around 7rs ago. set it up for him and taught him the basics,  started sending him the odd email and some had LOL in. few years later LOL was brought up and he seemed to misunderstand what it meant so I asked him do you know what LOL means. think so he says. Lots of Love isn't it. I went into hysterics and said all these years ive sent you emails with LOL and you thought I was saying lots of love every now and then, he's laughing his head off telling me yeah, thought it was a bit strange but didn't want to say anything. ;D

Didn’t David Cameron think LOL meant the same when he was texting that witch at the News of the World?

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #828 on: August 25, 2022, 05:06:35 pm »
Didn’t David Cameron think LOL meant the same when he was texting that witch at the News of the World?
Sod off,  David Cameron isn't my Brother.  :)
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It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
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Offline Zeppelin

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #829 on: August 26, 2022, 07:36:00 am »
Nobody is harmed by someone taking a pill on a night out, except for an extremely minute possibility of themselves.


maybe not directly, but where do you think the money you've paid for the pills goes? Why are these gangs so violent over their 'turf'? It's the money paid for pills and other drugs that fund them and their activities, including shooting 9 year old girls.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #830 on: August 26, 2022, 09:06:05 am »
Spot on. You cannot source charlie, E or speed etc responsibly. The profits goes directly to the type of person who had Olivia killed. Think about that. I'm no angel, Ive taken all sorts, mainly speed as Im a northern souler,  but not for past 30+yrs. When youre a yoof, you dont think of things like this. Its just a laugh with yer mates or a tool to keep dancing. But ultimately this is what can happen. Technically drugs payed for Olivias death. Horrible to think of it like this.

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Offline lfcred1976

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #831 on: August 26, 2022, 09:41:58 am »
36 year old arrested for the murder of Olivia

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #832 on: August 26, 2022, 09:49:36 am »
I know what you mean, went through a similar situation with my lad. good lad, never gone out looking for trouble but could defend himself. started in a college, some horrible bully thought he could look good bullying him infront of a few the kids. lad told him to piss off and walked past him. he waitied for my lad at the college door and blocked him from entering shouting insults and daring him to fight him. my lad lost it and just dropped him with a few punches, I was called to the school and the head admitted this lad was a bully who had been given at least 5 warnings for bullying and fighting but they had decided to expel this lad this time, she then said my lad will be expelled if it happens again. refused to accept the warning and told her she put my lad and others in danger by not expelling the lad and that was it. lad came back with bravado few days later but backed down when he stood up to him again.
Point is the school looked for the easy way out, I never met the lads parents but I imagine they were nasty as well and the school didn't fancy standing up to them, I was reasonable so they probably thought I wouldn't give them the same aggro.

Permanently excluding people is extremely difficult to do. Working in a school I’ve seen tons of incidents / patterns of behaviour that feel like the kid should be excluded, but it just isn’t how it works sadly

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #833 on: August 26, 2022, 09:49:43 am »
36 year old arrested for the murder of Olivia

Hopefully it's him.

Actually shocked it is someone that old.

I had in my mind it would be like the Rhys Jones case with a little scrote thinking he's hard.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #834 on: August 26, 2022, 10:03:14 am »
Hopefully it's him.

Actually shocked it is someone that old.

I had in my mind it would be like the Rhys Jones case with a little scrote thinking he's hard.



Exactly what I thought too. It’s horrific whatever the age but maybe easier to process it being a young lad somehow. 36?

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #835 on: August 26, 2022, 10:09:30 am »
If it’s him, I hope he rots in hell.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #836 on: August 26, 2022, 10:19:54 am »
36? As in thirty fucking six.

And he's still on the streets having gang wars, my god, how didn't he get too embarrassed to change his life around 10 years ago, never mind now.

Soft c*nt.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #837 on: August 26, 2022, 10:23:53 am »
Permanently excluding people is extremely difficult to do. Working in a school I’ve seen tons of incidents / patterns of behaviour that feel like the kid should be excluded, but it just isn’t how it works sadly

Unpopular view perhaps, but exclusion merely makes the problem worse. Sometimes school is the only stable thing in their lives, attempting to put help in place.  Kicking them out onto the streets means they have nothing in their lives.
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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #838 on: August 26, 2022, 10:43:32 am »
36? As in thirty fucking six.

And he's still on the streets having gang wars, my god, how didn't he get too embarrassed to change his life around 10 years ago, never mind now.

Soft c*nt.

Yeah as Nick also said above it shouldn't matter, but that's the same age as me which is wild.

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Re: Lawless Liverpool?
« Reply #839 on: August 26, 2022, 11:10:20 am »
If it’s him, I hope he rots in hell.

Hopefully he rots, slowly and painfully, before he even gets there.