Topic: FT: Newcastle 1 v Liverpool 1

[JSteve]

Too soon??

[Fairytale of 2005]

If we play like this start of next season the owners will be removing Klopp by Xmas - they have invested a lot and will want to see a return.

Invested a lot?

[killer-heels]

It really wouldn't.

It would be. If we come 5th or 6th then Klopp will rightly get caned. There is enough talent in this side to be doing better.

[Fordy]

5th or 6th would be a disaster. We should be pushing on, we have a good squad. Somethings not going right there. Either Klopp isnt getting his message to be implemented or the players have just dropped their heads.

Do we really have a good squad?

A bang average goal keeper.
A bang average LB
Average midfielders
No DM
No top forward
No leader or leaders

Think 4th is the best we can hope for. We messed up the transfer window.

[clinical]

Thats not good enough im afraid. This season isnt supposed to be a 4th place battle at this early stage. We have enough good players to be challenging.

Ok, maybe the defence and goalkeeper are a bunch of clowns but in front of them?

Sorry Killer but we don't have anywhere near good enough team. Our rivals all strengthened we added one first team player.

[TravisBickle]

It really wouldn't.

 Yes it would. Finally getting back into the top four and then finishing 5th or 6th would be an utter fucking disaster. And it's gonna happen at this rate.

[jillcwhomever]

We've been garbage since the start of January - nothing has changed in those 10 months despite the two transfer windows and nothing will change next season either. The last time I had genuine hope was under Rafa as despite not being able to compete in the top end of the transfer market you knew he was a tactical guru who could at least spring a surprise.

 I like Klopp as a personality but I will never think he is a tactical genius - for him to be a success, with his style of play, he needs the same quality of players as Man City have today and we all know how much that has cost...so what can we do but persevere and hope that maybe another couple of transfer windows make a difference.

If we play like this start of next season the owners will be removing Klopp by Xmas - they have invested a lot and will want to see a return.

I guess the reason we haven't won the title in this many years is driven by the fact that we don't win in the transfer market...but if we accept that to be the case we need a manager whose style can work within those resource constraints.

Could we get this season over with first, before worrying about next season. There is still time for us to improve this season.

[Johnnyboy1973]

5th or 6th would be a disaster. We should be pushing on, we have a good squad. Somethings not going tight there.

You over rate it and ignore the additions the Manc sides have made.

And that's before getting onto Spurs, who were better than us last season and still are.

Somethings not right? Yeah, exactly the same problems as last season are still our problems this season. We are a poor defensive side against anyone and we struggle to break down sides that dig in.

Should we be surprised that those same problems persist when we add one first team player.

[Rob Dylan]

The frustrating thing is that we could see this coming after we failed to address our main issues in the transfer window. We needed a CB (maybe two), a DM, a reliable goalscorer, a LB, probably a keeper. Yes we got more pace out wide with Salah who's been great, we got a LB but he hardly ever plays. We had plenty of money to spend as well. The fact that we're having to play an injured Lovren (who's not even that good when he's fit) is an indictment of our transfer policy this summer.

It feels like we just drifted into this season just hoping it would be alright, again. We've stood still while others have improved. Yes we'll start playing better at some point but it feels like the absolute best we can hope for is to be competing for 4th, it' a real missed opportunity.

When he came in I really thought Klopp would be ruthless and replace those players who lacked either the quality or the mentality that we needed (or he'd be able to instill the right mentality in those who lacked it), but he still has far too much faith in players who just aren't good enough. We're still seeing the same mental weakness, lack of concentration and lack of intensity that we had when he arrived.

[sms1986]

Too soon??

Who is even saying that?

[NorthamptonKopite]

We ain't winning shit. 10 years of nothing. We've been here so many time and nothing changes other than the man at the helm.

[clinical]

You over rate it and ignore the additions the Manc sides have made.

And that's before getting onto Spurs, who were better than us last season and still are.

Somethings not right? Yeah, exactly the same problems as last season are still our problems this season. We are a poor defensive side against anyone and we struggle to break down sides that dig in.

Should we be surprised that those same problems persist when we add one first team player.

This. One first team player with games in mid week. Also losing underrated Lucas and Lallana injured.

How on earth were we meant to improve?

[nayia2002]

  very fucking frustrating again 

we are really "blunt" in attack, poor finishing by all strikers all season considering the chances created/missed

[Oddball]

Again, you're looking at this in absolutes. In your view people either think Klopp is infallible or or they think Klopp should be sacked. I suspect the vast majority don't think either of these things however. It's perfectly possible to think Klopp will get it right eventually and should have time to do so but that at the moment things are not going well and mistakes are being made they need rectifying.

And again because it seems to be difficult to grasp - criticising the manager or his decisions doesn't mean you think you know better than Klopp. Nobody on this forum knows more about football than Klopp. Ultimately my opinion, your opinion and everybody else on here's opinion means absolutely fuck all. This club has been so starved of success though that you can't blame people for being frustrated with how things are going. That's not Klopp's fault but impatience is a natural symptom of waiting 5 years for any trophy and the best part of 3 decades for the trophy we all want above any other. The frustration is only compounded when so many saw the problems that needed to be fixed in the summer and they weren't. Of course there's fuck all we as fans can do about it but venting on an online forum is a pretty harmless way of expressing those frustrations in the grand scheme of things.

Great post. Agree 100%

[Charles Foster Kane]

Realistic? With the right strengthening in the right areas we should have been up there. How we've decided a defence that conceded 42 goals last season could cope without any additions is unbelievable.

To add to that we've further weakened our defence by losing Clyne and adding Moreno.

Pretty much this. How anyone thought it was miraculously gonna sort itself is beyond me.

[Sat1]

Let’s hope we can get 4th in order to bring some real quality in

[elsewhere]

I tend to not believe Klopp was the one who thought not buying a CB would be ok.

[vicar]

I don't know whether we are changing our style of play or if its just missing Lallana, but we are nowhere near as intense as the start of last year.

[lessthanmatt]

Did you notice he was running around like a playstaion player between Phil's goal and theirs...then stayed at home playing safe passes the rest of the match?

His passing is grossly overrated because of the sheer number he makes as a number 6. But how valuable are they when those passes are speculative lobs to isolated forwards/wingbacks out wide...or when they are back passes that defer creativity to centrebacks...or when they are needlessly rushed..or when they are telegraphed by too many touches or slow turns so he can rely on only the inside of his right foot...or when he never looks right to make any of those simple passes...

I have to agree that this is very Henderson. The speculative lobs forward are a pretty new thing for him in my opinion. He's always been partial to an unnecessarily-lobbed ball to the side or a fancy-looking crossfield switch... his favourite "not simple" pass is his signature first time cross from near the front corners of the penalty area... they're actually okay. More recently however I've noticed him lofting speculative balls forward with barely any angle on them. One time today, he hung up the ball for Salah, who was sandwiched between 3 defenders with no other attacker around him. Not good enough. In our last European match, he was hooking forward basically any ball that bounced near him, without even looking most of the time. If one of those balls came off, he would look very clever, but truthfully he's just rolling a die by playing it blind. The inside of the right foot thing you mentioned is spot on too.

I still think he offers a lot. He should just defer creativity to Coutinho or <the creative midfielder partnering him, who doesn't exist> (this is part of the problem) instead of trying it himself or rolling it to Matip/Lovren incessantly.

[NorthamptonKopite]

Let’s hope we can get 4th in order to bring some real quality in

Let's hope that's tongue in cheek

[sms1986]

We ain't winning shit. 10 years of nothing. We've been here so many time and nothing changes other than the man at the helm.

Ten years and we've had five different managers during that time, if we have to call Hodgson a manager. Also during that time we had owners who nearly destroyed the club because of their sheer incompetence.

Progress has been made, sure we're in a run of poor form right now, but we're getting there.

[RK7]

It would be. If we come 5th or 6th then Klopp will rightly get caned. There is enough talent in this side to be doing better.

Come off it, this is a tough league with teams better than us in it. Ask anyone who's a neutral  and most would have us finishing outside the top 4 with the squad of players we have. It would be a disgrace if Klopp went for finishing 5th.

[TepidT2O]

If we got 4th now it would be a miracle. We are worse than last year. By some distance.

A miracle... blimey... You’ve been watching Roy Hodgson too much mate..

[na fir dearg]

Nothing is going for us at the moment. Painful but we will just have to ride it out

[killer-heels]

That goal for Newcastle was offside but fucking hell Matip was absolutely awful. Our whole setup requires our centrebacks to be good at 1v1’s but at least be good at 2v1’s. He should be on the move as soon as Shelvey shapes up to pass but instead he stands square like a gormless fucking lampost.

[TepidT2O]

This thread is even more absurd than I’d imagined.

Genuinely bonkers, some have lost all touch with reality...

[killer-heels]

Come off it, this is a tough league with teams better than us in it. Ask anyone who's a neutral  and most would have us finishing outside the top 4 with the squad of players we have. It would be a disgrace if Klopp went for finishing 5th.

Who said anything about Klopp going? But I am sorry there wont be mitigation if we come below 4th. We have a good squad and if we didnt then we had the money and CL football and all that so then you question player quality judgement.

[Funky_Gibbons]

That goal for Newcastle was offside but fucking hell Matip was absolutely awful. Our whole setup requires our centrebacks to be good at 1v1’s but at least be good at 2v1’s. He should be on the move as soon as Shelvey shapes up to pass but instead he stands square like a gormless fucking lampost.

He does that very often. He's looking to make the interception, which he has good numbers for, but if the balls good enough he's a spectator after. We conceded two or three against Man City with this type of defending from him.

[Gnurglan]

5th or 6th would be a disaster. We should be pushing on, we have a good squad. Somethings not going right there. Either Klopp isnt getting his message to be implemented or the players have just dropped their heads.

I agree we should be pushing on. It's still possible. But now that we are in the CL, we should aim to stay there. That's got to be the minimum target this season. As always, it doesn't mean everything is terrible if we fail to get there, but it would be a disappointment. If we are to win the title, we need to get used to the battles and the pressure. The first thing here is to at the very least defend our position among the top four.

[TomDcs]

Our attackers are seemingly just out of form, Firmino and Sturridge quite badly, Mane looks like he's a bit rusty as others have said, and it's difficult to judge where Salah is at, because whilst his return rate is decent he's still pretty wasteful at times.

We are really missing Lallana too, hopefully this is our blip and things will click again soon.

[Rick Sanchez]

We need a world class striker, two center backs and a new goalkeeper until that happens will won't be competiting for the big trophies.

Look at the teams in the current top four they all have elite strikers who bury chances that our forwards miss.

Also why did Klopp take off Mane and Salah that was strange 

Your trying to win the game and you take off your top goalscores

[Oddball]

This thread is even more absurd than I’d imagined.

Genuinely bonkers, some have lost all touch with reality...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci40ae8BlcE

[RK7]

Yes it would. Finally getting back into the top four and then finishing 5th or 6th would be an utter fucking disaster. And it's gonna happen at this rate.

Finishing 4th once in blue moon doesn't entitle us to finish there the following season. We have a had a advantage last year with no European football and still nearly messed that up. This season was always going to be tougher without major investment in the right areas.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Fucking brilliant, you’ll hook some with that as well mate.

well, we are worse than last year, that much seems obvious. I'd take 4th now if it was handed to me, which is pretty depressing

[stuartheal]

There are some right fucking fannies in here. Everybody revising our targets for May already. We have played 7 league games, sling only once, we've been pretty average and are still only one point off Chelsea and Arsenal and 2 off Spurs ffs.

We scored bags of goals last season and have added the impressive Salah to the ranks. It will click at some point I guarantee. Next league game would be nice!

[Giono]

I have to agree that this is very Henderson. The speculative lobs forward are a pretty new thing for him in my opinion. He's always been partial to an unnecessarily-lobbed ball to the side or a fancy-looking crossfield switch... his favourite "not simple" pass is his signature first time cross from near the front corners of the penalty area... they're actually okay. More recently however I've noticed him lofting speculative balls forward with barely any angle on them. One time today, he hung up the ball for Salah, who was sandwiched between 3 defenders with no other attacker around him. Not good enough. In our last European match, he was hooking forward basically any ball that bounced near him, without even looking most of the time. If one of those balls came off, he would look very clever, but truthfully he's just rolling a die by playing it blind. The inside of the right foot thing you mentioned is spot on too.

I still think he offers a lot. He should just defer creativity to Coutinho or <the creative midfielder partnering him, who doesn't exist> (this is part of the problem) instead of trying it himself or rolling it to Matip/Lovren incessantly.

Last season Hendo - Gini-Lallana worked. Because Gini played to the left of midfield and so he received the ball from Henderson directly or via Hendo's 2 favourite targets on the left, Milner and Lovren. Then Gini would distribute to Phil in forint of him or Bobby in the middle or to Lallana on the right.

[sms1986]

well, we are worse than last year, that much seems obvious. I'd take 4th now if it was handed to me, which is pretty depressing

You're comparing ten or so games to an entire season?

[jillcwhomever]

It would be. If we come 5th or 6th then Klopp will rightly get caned. There is enough talent in this side to be doing better.

Doing better yes. Challenging for the title not yet. I think you are expecting way too much at this stage.

[John C]

I agree with Fordy

Migs, LOVREN and Henderson are the issue

Henderson seems to play the ball back more than he does forward

Gini was completely absent in midfield, Matip let his man go while he practised his new running backward thing and the front 3 couldn't string 3 passes together.

[adamski29]

Fucking joke, utterly pathetic against another dismal team.

No urgency, same players hiding, terrible late subs, Mignolet taking 20 seconds to take a free kick with a minute left, just utter shit. That transfer window is one of the biggest missed chances of my life time, what a mistake that we will regret for a long long time. On a weekend where Utd, Spurs and Arsenal beat shit teams to nil we are giving a shit team a calamity goal yet again and thats why it'll probably be 11 trophyless years in a row, utterly sickening.

We had something so, so good and decided to stand still which is the same as going backwards in football. It's absolutely mindblowing stupidity.

I couldn't agree with this post more if I'd wrote it myself.