Author Topic: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain  (Read 347109 times)

Offline wemmick

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #240 on: September 1, 2017, 02:24:05 PM »
Looking forward to seeing how Ox-Chambo develops under Klopp. Gives the midfield more pace, power, and guile on the ball.

Offline Curtisinho

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #241 on: September 1, 2017, 02:41:56 PM »
Ox is actually a perfect addition to the midfield. He's immediately the most effective dribbler on the team, and has a much more direct style than Coutinho/Firmino in his approach which suits our midfield 3 very well. He's got pace, and he actually creates a lot of scoring chances. On top of this he's got an engine and you can see that he gives his all to win (something sorely lacking from most of Arsenal's players, intensity). Ox really brings that different element to our midfield in that he's very forward thinking, and he will actually drive at the other team and with his pace and intensity he'll be perfect for our transition/counter game.

I for one was always happy about this rumour and wanted us to sign Ox in the winter window. Would love to see this:

Ox - Gini
Hendo

Then once Coutinho is re-integrated into the team we have a lot of depth in midfeld.

Coutinho/Ox - Gini/Lallana
Hendo/Can

Milner, Woodburn, Grujic
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Offline greg9r

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #242 on: September 1, 2017, 02:57:44 PM »

I for one was always happy about this rumour and wanted us to sign Ox in the winter window. Would love to see this:

Ox - Gini
Hendo

Then once Coutinho is re-integrated into the team we have a lot of depth in midfeld.

Coutinho/Ox - Gini/Lallana
Hendo/Can

Milner, Woodburn, Grujic

So, you prefer to play Hendo and Ox over Can in his current form ?

Offline Curtisinho

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #243 on: September 1, 2017, 03:01:31 PM »
So, you prefer to play Hendo and Ox over Can in his current form ?

Yes, he's played well but to be honest he still slows the game down too much for what this team wants to accomplish and makes some really bad decisions at times. He's slow of movement and thought and I think he's a big reason why we still break down a lot on attack and give up silly chances on the break.

Ox just fits our style better I think, and overall I believe he is more talented. I've always liked him as a player and he fits Klopp's system like a glove.

Not to mention Can reportedly wants to leave and while he's enjoying a purple patch now I've never been overly enamored with his abilities. He should be playing the 6 but Henderson is better and I'd rather integrate Ox in because I'm excited about what he can do.
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Offline Xabier Alonso Olano

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #244 on: September 1, 2017, 03:27:00 PM »
I have never considered that way of squad building. But it's certainly intriguing, the point you make.
Usually, as I have noticed, the elite coaches, keep the spine of the team and build around it every few years.

Your way seems like it could be the right way to build. A total of three players for each position, one in his prime, one up & coming and one youngster on the side.

One question I have though is of mentality and motivation. Let's say a team that plans it's future in this way and is picking up trophies. What motivates these young players after they have won a lot. We have seen how Barca seem to suffer a lack of motivation after a few years of dominance.
United lost that motivation also after a few years of dominance. But Fergusons way of planning was building a team around his few trusted players after every 3-5 years. He could keep on motivating the new players.

I would like to know your opinion on this. Few people give motivation any importance, but in my mind it's as important as tactics and technical & individual brilliance.

I agree with you on how elite coaches usually build the squad, and of course squads constantly evolve and change for a host of reasons, contract issues, lack of opportunities etc, personal problems etc. As such they will always need tweaking every few years, but with the age profile of the squad as it is, there is clear continuation in a couple of positions, especially in midfield as I said.

Motivation shouldn't be a problem under Klopp, or any elite coach for that matter, even after success, I'd say the examples you used all stayed very motivated, hence why they won so many trophies together. The problems arose after the retirements of key players who hadn't been replaced with the same quality. Even for us, it's taken a while for us to truly replace legends like Carra and Gerrard, but I do think that Oxlade-Chamberlain does serve as a perfect age fit between Lallana and Woodburn. And all three are of the right quality. Of course we have hit lucky with those three, Lallana was here before Klopp and Woodburn is a massive bonus as hes came up from the academy.

If anything, I think the only problem that arises when trying to build a continuous squad is getting the right amount of minutes on the pitch for the young player. It's a problem that all the big teams are encountering; Untd lost Pogba and Michael Keane for pittance because they couldn't get them on the pitch. City have just lost Sancho who is a big talent because he knew he wouldn't get a look in. Chelsea have loaned so many out year on year that it's now to their detriment, players are starting to say no ta, I'd rather go elsewhere (Liverpool!!) Where I might get a chance to play.

Motivation and man management is Klopp's thing. I'm trying to recall our biggest loss under him, and I'm struggling to recall a battering like what we dished out at the weekend. Europa League final vs Sevilla is probably as bad as it gets, on any given day less than 100% effort will be ruthlessly punished by Jurgen. It's why Sakho is now at Palace.




Offline Passmaster Molby

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #245 on: September 1, 2017, 03:27:34 PM »
He will play more in the wide attacking positons of the front 3 than in the midfield 3 in my opinion. Much more suited to those roles with his pace and ability to beat a man. If he adds end product to his game he could be one scary motherfucker in the Mane/Salah mould.

Offline Samie

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #246 on: September 1, 2017, 03:30:23 PM »

Offline amirani

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #247 on: September 1, 2017, 03:41:29 PM »

Offline BEAST

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #248 on: September 1, 2017, 03:43:10 PM »
He will play more in the wide attacking positons of the front 3 than in the midfield 3 in my opinion. Much more suited to those roles with his pace and ability to beat a man. If he adds end product to his game he could be one scary motherfucker in the Mane/Salah mould.

I'm curious about this.  He will probably get minutes in both roles.

I hope he makes it as an 8 because at his best I don't think he'll ever be the goal scorer that our current wide forwards are.  But at his best as a #8 he could become a more athletic version of Lallana which would be awesome.

Remember Lallana went from an ok wide player with ok scoring numbers to an awesome attacking midfielder after Klopp got a chance to work with him.

Offline Xabier Alonso Olano

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #249 on: September 1, 2017, 03:51:35 PM »
He will play more in the wide attacking positons of the front 3 than in the midfield 3 in my opinion. Much more suited to those roles with his pace and ability to beat a man. If he adds end product to his game he could be one scary motherfucker in the Mane/Salah mould.

He very well could and it will be interesting to see where he produces his absolute best. It's hard to compare to how he's played previously as our front 6 is so ridiculously fluid, at any given point any of them can pop up in any position depending on the transition. Mane took up positions early on vs Arsenal where he dropped deep and ran into space, driving at the Arsenal back line, if Oxlade-Chamberlain played from the left wing, I could see him dropping and performing similar movements through games very easily. His skill set does naturally lend to playing a few positions to a high standard, but I really do think he could be great as the third midfielder especially against low blocks as Babu stated. If he adds extra output maybe it will be the wide forward role that he takes, but I see less goals with him there than having Mane, Salah, Coutinho, Firmino in those positions instead.

Offline fewmin' bedwetter

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #250 on: September 1, 2017, 04:21:03 PM »
Stop it, you lot, I'm starting to get quite excited about this signing!
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Offline thelinnen

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #251 on: September 1, 2017, 04:32:50 PM »
He will play more in the wide attacking positons of the front 3 than in the midfield 3 in my opinion. Much more suited to those roles with his pace and ability to beat a man. If he adds end product to his game he could be one scary motherfucker in the Mane/Salah mould.
I doubt it, he'll be competing with Lallana for that right centre midfield spot.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #252 on: September 1, 2017, 04:50:38 PM »
He'll be a great tactical fit. Let's say he's starting in a wide position in place of a rested Salah or Mane, and we find we need more penetrative power on the pitch. On comes the one of duo and AOC moves into midfield - only one of the few ways Klopp can use the personel he now has.

Offline amirani

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #253 on: September 1, 2017, 05:22:18 PM »
Jordan Henderson will captain England tonight with Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain to start in a wide role, by @_pauljoyce

Will get to see our new lad play today. Also nice to see Hendo getting the armband.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #254 on: September 1, 2017, 05:27:39 PM »
He will play more in the wide attacking positons of the front 3 than in the midfield 3 in my opinion. Much more suited to those roles with his pace and ability to beat a man. If he adds end product to his game he could be one scary motherfucker in the Mane/Salah mould.
No chance, He's signed as a CM, he's not got enough end product to play in a front three. His stats suggest he's got the ability to be a great CM, my concern is the stuff the stats don't show, off the ball.
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Offline L8Craig

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #255 on: September 1, 2017, 05:34:27 PM »
I doubt it, he'll be competing with Lallana for that right centre midfield spot.
Gives us the option for resting Salah or Mane too but I agree, can see him or Wijnaldum alongside Can and Henderson until Coutinho comes back in to the team.

Offline amirani

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #256 on: September 1, 2017, 05:38:58 PM »
No chance, He's signed as a CM, he's not got enough end product to play in a front three. His stats suggest he's got the ability to be a great CM, my concern is the stuff the stats don't show, off the ball.

I'm going with an open mind on how he will be used. Just seeing how Klopp made Milner a pretty good LB and Gini a good CM excites me what he can do with Alex.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #257 on: September 1, 2017, 05:45:24 PM »
Ox has minimal chance of dislodging Lallana from his berth.

Not only is Lallana absolutely vital in how quickly he moves the ball and connects the lines of our team, Klopp absolutely adores him plus there's no one else in our midfield that comes close to how vital Lallana is for our pressing. He leads the charge from midfield as his timing is impeccable and everybody else follows him.

I understand why people could be excited about Ox in midfield - his ability to turn and go past people could be very beneficiary to us however no.8 role in our team is so much more than that so for him to get ahead of Phil or Lallana in that midfield he'll have to do spectacularly well to achieve it.

And if he does it it's gonna be a win-win situation because it'll mean we've practically gained a world-class CM which is the level he'll need to achieve to get ahead of two such players.

Offline newterp

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #258 on: September 1, 2017, 05:47:20 PM »
Ox has minimal chance of dislodging Lallana from his berth.

Not only is Lallana absolutely vital in how quickly he moves the ball and connects the lines of our team, Klopp absolutely adores him plus there's no one else in our midfield that comes close to how vital Lallana is for our pressing. He leads the charge from midfield as his timing is impeccable and everybody else follows him.

I understand why people could be excited about him in midfield - his ability to turn and go past people could be very beneficiary to us however no.8 role in our team is so much more than that so for him to get ahead of Phil or Lallana in that midfield he'll have to do spectacularly well to achieve it.

And if he does it it's gonna be a win-win situation because it'll mean we've practically gained a world-class CM which is the level he'll need to achieve to get ahead of two such players.

good thing there are 50 games to play where a 29 yr old midfielder likely wont play all of them - and when fresh legs are called for in late game sub situations we can send a quality player to run at them. I don't think anyone is saying dislodge - they are excited by the fact that he's a quality addition.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #259 on: September 1, 2017, 05:48:54 PM »
I'm going with an open mind on how he will be used. Just seeing how Klopp made Milner a pretty good LB and Gini a good CM excites me what he can do with Alex.
If you compare him to our other wide forwards, they're very direct with great goal scoring records throughout their careers, AOC isn't direct and his end product is poor.

What strikes me is his really good dribbling and pretty good chance creation stats. I think Klopp sees that as a way to get through teams who pack the midfield, dribble through and breaking lines. As he apparently left Arsenal as he wanted to play central, it suggests that's where he's going to play (although he could move wide when we're seeing out games like Wijnaldum has).
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #260 on: September 1, 2017, 05:49:17 PM »
Ox has minimal chance of dislodging Lallana from his berth.

Not only is Lallana absolutely vital in how quickly he moves the ball and connects the lines of our team, Klopp absolutely adores him plus there's no one else in our midfield that comes close to how vital Lallana is for our pressing. He leads the charge from midfield as his timing is impeccable and everybody else follows him.

I understand why people could be excited about Ox in midfield - his ability to turn and go past people could be very beneficiary to us however no.8 role in our team is so much more than that so for him to get ahead of Phil or Lallana in that midfield he'll have to do spectacularly well to achieve it.

And if he does it it's gonna be a win-win situation because it'll mean we've practically gained a world-class CM which is the level he'll need to achieve to get ahead of two such players.

Oxchambo is more effective as a flat track bully.  His strength power and athleticism will help us against the alehouse teams..  something we need
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Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #261 on: September 1, 2017, 05:49:59 PM »
good thing there are 50 games to play where a 29 yr old midfielder likely wont play all of them - and when fresh legs are called for in late game sub situations we can send a quality player to run at them. I don't think anyone is saying dislodge - they are excited by the fact that he's a quality addition.
Exactly which is why we signed him - a quality player that can cover a number of positions. It allows us to have a slightly smaller but a happy squad where everyone's contributing. Every squad needs a number of these types of players.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #262 on: September 1, 2017, 05:54:04 PM »
Ox has minimal chance of dislodging Lallana from his berth.

Not only is Lallana absolutely vital in how quickly he moves the ball and connects the lines of our team, Klopp absolutely adores him plus there's no one else in our midfield that comes close to how vital Lallana is for our pressing. He leads the charge from midfield as his timing is impeccable and everybody else follows him.

I understand why people could be excited about Ox in midfield - his ability to turn and go past people could be very beneficiary to us however no.8 role in our team is so much more than that so for him to get ahead of Phil or Lallana in that midfield he'll have to do spectacularly well to achieve it.

And if he does it it's gonna be a win-win situation because it'll mean we've practically gained a world-class CM which is the level he'll need to achieve to get ahead of two such players.

Thing is though - there are no examples of link players in Klopp teams at Lallana's age. You are falling into the trap of believing things will not change. A fit, 28 year old Lallana at his physical peak was perfect for Klopp. But 27 is the point players start entering their physical decline. At which point every muscle injury can take away a little (or lot) from their game. So what about a 29 year old Lallana recovering from a torn thigh muscle? We don't know. You hope he is the same player. There is a risk that it takes away somethign from his game though. Maybe he is a second slower to press people. Isn't able to turn the same way on the ball.

When players over 27 get injured, it's always a concern. Grade 1 tears aren't a problem. Grade 2. Unlikely to be a problem. Grade 3 - won't know until we see him after the fact unfortunately.
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Offline thelinnen

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Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #263 on: September 1, 2017, 05:54:45 PM »
Should also be mentioned that if he was still at Arsenal he probably would've put in a few game changing performances to earn them a few more points. They didn't replace him so they'll miss that, don't see how anyone can be unhappy with this deal.
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Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #264 on: September 1, 2017, 05:56:20 PM »
If you compare him to our other wide forwards, they're very direct with great goal scoring records throughout their careers, AOC isn't direct and his end product is poor.

What strikes me is his really good dribbling and pretty good chance creation stats. I think Klopp sees that as a way to get through teams who pack the midfield, dribble through and breaking lines. As he apparently left Arsenal as he wanted to play central, it suggests that's where he's going to play (although he could move wide when we're seeing out games like Wijnaldum has).

To be very specific, his shooting is really really terrible and his chance creation (assists) is at elite level. I suppose a lot like Ozil in that sense.

I use end product to mean a sum of both, which is his case is tricky as he is both terrible and brilliant depending on which number you focus on. :D
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Offline alonsoisared

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #265 on: September 1, 2017, 05:58:05 PM »
I really like Chamberlain, and you can't fail to be impressed by his attitude when you consider the wages he turned down from both Arsenal and Chelsea to sign for us. Clearly he is here for the right reasons; to buckle down, work hard, learn from the best and turn into the best player he can be. And that in itself is a vital characteristic, if he is willing to learn then there is nobody better than Klopp to improve him.

I like his style, there's a lot of stats that people have brought out to show his limited productivity but you have to consider that he hasn't been used correctly at Arsenal and they really have been a bit of a car crash for a few years now. What the eye can see is very different to what his stats show, and that is that he has so many of the key ingredients that make a very good Jurgen Klopp player. He has pace, great dribbling ability, he is powerful but also possesses great technical skills. I think he will be key against park the bus teams. We've seen some difficulty when we've had a midfield three of Wijnaldum, Can and Henderson in terms of having someone to carry the ball into the final third, or play that little intricate through ball between the lines. I'm sure he'll be a little bit in and out of the team and I am sure he'll be aware of that, but we have a long season ahead and he will get a lot of games. I'm really happy we've got him.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #266 on: September 1, 2017, 06:00:13 PM »
What you're forgetting about Lallana is that he's a late bloomer, he had serious health issues early on in his career and didn't exert himself as much as we'd think. This is not a case of Rooney playing every single game imaginable since the age of 16 but all this is for Lallana's thread not Ox's.

Also Ox has everything to prove when it comes to pressing and understand the timing of it.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #267 on: September 1, 2017, 06:00:51 PM »
To be very specific, his shooting is really really terrible and his chance creation (assists) is at elite level. I suppose a lot like Ozil in that sense.

I use end product to mean a sum of both, which is his case is tricky as he is both terrible and brilliant depending on which number you focus on. :D
He's got 18 assists in the premier league at one every +350 minutes, hardly elite. What we don't know yet is whether that's Wenger's tactics or whether there's a talented player in there because his stats suggest there might be.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #268 on: September 1, 2017, 06:09:47 PM »
I got no stats to back me up, but I get the sense AOC is much more suited to our heavy metal football - much like Sterling really (but that ship has long sailed so).

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #269 on: September 1, 2017, 06:13:02 PM »
Should also be mentioned that if he was still at Arsenal he probably would've put in a few game changing performances to earn them a few more points. They didn't replace him so they'll miss that, don't see how anyone can be unhappy with this deal.
Interestingly, they lost Gibbs too. Which means their wing back options are now Bellarin, Kolasinac & Monreal. I can see problems there at LWB in terms of dealing with fast/agile players. Not that Gibbs is a solution either. Wonder if they try to turn Iwobi into a LWB?
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #270 on: September 1, 2017, 06:14:30 PM »
He's got 18 assists in the premier league at one every +350 minutes, hardly elite. What we don't know yet is whether that's Wenger's tactics or whether there's a talented player in there because his stats suggest there might be.

The problem is we are taking those numbers back to when he was what, 17/18? We don't go back that far when looking at Coutinho or anybody else.

Production usually kicks in for players around 22/23. Last season was his first of consistent football so I use that as his baseline.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #271 on: September 1, 2017, 06:16:38 PM »
Welcome Alex! Great to have another Liverpool fan in the team, and I back you to unlock the potential suppressed by Wenger's methods...!

Offline amirani

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #272 on: September 1, 2017, 06:19:25 PM »
Interestingly, they lost Gibbs too. Which means their wing back options are now Bellarin, Kolasinac & Monreal. I can see problems there at LWB in terms of dealing with fast/agile players. Not that Gibbs is a solution either. Wonder if they try to turn Iwobi into a LWB?

They couldn't get rid of Debuchy. Not sure if he can be turned into a wing back.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #273 on: September 1, 2017, 06:19:29 PM »
What you're forgetting about Lallana is that he's a late bloomer, he had serious health issues early on in his career and didn't exert himself as much as we'd think. This is not a case of Rooney playing every single game imaginable since the age of 16 but all this is for Lallana's thread not Ox's.

Also Ox has everything to prove when it comes to pressing and understand the timing of it.
Late bloomer on not, physically speaking players start their physical decline aged 27/28. How dependant their skillset is on their physical attributes depends on how much and how fast it will decline. For most players, other skills that improve with experience take over at this time which often sees a player shift from positions needing explosive actions to ones that do not (e.g. Dwight Yorke, Steven Gerrard).

Center backs, for example, use slow-twitch muscle fibres more for the than fast twitch, therefore effects are noticed later. Goalkeepers likely have shorter dive reach but much improved positioning etc.

For players in a Klopp system on which pressing is one of, it not the, most important aspect, that is all about fast-twitch muscles and it cannot be escaped. That's why it's nigh impossible to find players aged 29+ playing in a pressing system in a certain roles. In fact most move players on much sooner before there is any suggestion at all of physical decline to maintain maximum value (e.g Ralf Rangnick)
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #274 on: September 1, 2017, 06:19:59 PM »
Oxchambo is more effective as a flat track bully.  His strength power and athleticism will help us against the alehouse teams..  something we need
How I see it as well. As great as Lallana is our results against those teams are not great. Hopefully Oxlade can help us there.
« Last Edit: September 1, 2017, 06:25:54 PM by Charles Foster Kane »
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #275 on: September 1, 2017, 06:23:37 PM »
Obviously delighted with the signing, been 'bigging' him up all summer in the transfer threads. 

Think he will thrive under Klopp.

Brilliant stats Babu as always.

I wonder when we don't see Mane or Salah in the front three, who Klopp would choose to play wide out of Coutinho & Ox.  Obviously Firmino is an option too, but ideally I think he'd like to keep him central.

Given Ox look very creative, as Babu shows in those stats, I would have thought Coutinho would be better in the front three than Ox, given he is the better finisher and should get more goals.  Ox you'd think is better defensive than Coutinho as well in CM, which might help sway the decision.

Although pace is important for our wide players, and Ox would offer that more than Coutinho.  I feel Coutinho would get more goals, as well as being creative in that position, so he'd be the better option in most cases. 

Coutinho might be better deeper individually.  But when Salah or Mane don't play, he still is probably the best option to replace one of them.

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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #276 on: September 1, 2017, 06:23:38 PM »
Late bloomer on not, physically speaking players start their physical decline aged 27/28. How dependant their skillset is on their physical attributes depends on how much and how fast it will decline. For most players, other skills that improve with experience take over at this time which often sees a player shift from positions needing explosive actions to ones that do not (e.g. Dwight Yorke, Steven Gerrard).

Center backs, for example, use slow-twitch muscle fibres more for the than fast twitch, therefore effects are noticed later. Goalkeepers likely have shorter dive reach but much improved positioning etc.

For players in a Klopp system on which pressing is one of, it not the, most important aspect, that is all about fast-twitch muscles and it cannot be escaped. That's why it's nigh impossible to find players aged 29+ playing in a pressing system in a certain roles. In fact most move players on much sooner before there is any suggestion at all of physical decline to maintain maximum value (e.g Ralf Rangnick)
And if I'm not totally wrong Lallana was never the most physically impressive player to begin with and he will hardly start improving much in that regard. No critique intended.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #277 on: September 1, 2017, 06:25:03 PM »
The problem is we are taking those numbers back to when he was what, 17/18? We don't go back that far when looking at Coutinho or anybody else.

Production usually kicks in for players around 22/23. Last season was his first of consistent football so I use that as his baseline.
Sounds like cherry picking to me, compare him to Sterling at that age.
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #278 on: September 1, 2017, 06:29:00 PM »
Sounds like cherry picking to me, compare him to Sterling at that age.

Like 2010-11 when he was still at Southampton and scored 9 in 36 appearances, you mean?
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Re: Welcome to Liverpool Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
« Reply #279 on: September 1, 2017, 06:30:51 PM »
Sounds like cherry picking to me, compare him to Sterling at that age.

When have you ever seen any other player we have signed have their entire career added together since they were 17 until 24 and used an average as their likely output?

For almost every single player production is a bump that follows age. It starts towards peak at 22/23 and then starts coming down at 27/28.

Go look at Gerrard's output from 17-24, add it all up, take an average, then compare it to his numbers in each of the next 5 seasons. Is it close? Do the same with Lampard, Henry, any player you want really. You will see the same curve in their output more or less as production follows physical peak & experience.
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