Topic: Naby Keita Watch

[DangerScouse]

It's pointless debating how Keita played last night. We played a makeshift team who hadn't played together and it showed. Our midfield was all over the place and at times only Keita appeared to be in midfield.

With better players around him who know what to do then we'll see how he slots in.

Couldn't agree more. Draw a line in the sand and move on. Hope to see him start at the weekend.

[Dench57]

I must say, watching him yesterday, I was all the more disappointed he hadn't started against City.

Wow. Opinions eh?

[Cheesehead]

For 50 odd million he been disappointing so far, but has shown glimpses of what he can do. It’s like he’s playing within himself.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Confidence thing, would have liked to see him demand the ball more

[[new username under construction]]

Confidence thing, would have liked to see him demand the ball more

Probably 98% confidence thing, big step up but also will help when he has full strength team to play with more

[hesbighesred]

Wow. Opinions eh?

I know, right? To be fair, I didn't watch most of the first half and wasn't that concentrated for the rest of it. Second half I was paying a lot more attention.

The reason I say what I say about City is that Milner - for all his excellence - has no press resistance. And we saw it again last night. Sure, not a great ball from Moreno, but in that situation, under pressure, Milner has few tools in his locker and ends up losing it. Keita's the exact opposite. There were a number of runs/situations and passes where he somehow found space where there was none. And up against a very good pressing team.

It's not that Milner did terribly - though I thought it was a game that really highlighted his weaknesses, especially in a midfield 2 (but then to the extent that's true it's on Klopp, not on Milner) - it's that what Keita can bring is one of the most powerful attributes a midfielder can have - the ability to turn the opponents pressure into our space.

It's exactly that which I thought we seriously missed against City. We only had Gini with ability to receive, move and play through tight spaces. But the difference between Gini and Keita is that Keita's got that wee kick of acceleration and pace to get away - to turn 4 people encroaching on him into 4 people behind him with our trident running at their back 4.

And I thought that situation - a transition through a pressed midfield, leading to our attack running at their defence with a man on the ball to feed it to them - is exactly what we didn't have enough of against City. The one time we did it was Salah escaping their press with a lovely turn, who then set Mane free for what we were really unlucky was not the opening goal.

But neither Hendo nor Milner can or ever will provide that. Keita did it 3 or 4 times in one half alone, and, I repeat, against a genuinely decent pressing side with a strong midfield. And he did it without the support of a 10, a 6 or, to an extent, even his midfield partner.

EDIT:
This is not to say I'm right and your wrong - my first comment was 100% genuine. I just wanted to explain where I'm coming from. I think I can see where others are too - he does seem to be in his shell a bit, he has misplaced more easy passes than you'd expect, he has seemed passive at times where you'd maybe have expected him to be dominant...

I'm just a lot more excited by the positives I've seen than the negatives. The latter strike me as a matter of confidence, where the former strike me as gold-dust in terms of top-level midfields.

[newterp]

I know, right? To be fair, I didn't watch most of the first half and wasn't that concentrated for the rest of it. Second half I was paying a lot more attention.

The reason I say what I say about City is that Milner - for all his excellence - has no press resistance. And we saw it again last night. Sure, not a great ball from Moreno, but in that situation, under pressure, Milner has few tools in his locker and ends up losing it. Keita's the exact opposite. There were a number of runs/situations and passes where he somehow found space where there was none. And up against a very good pressing team.

It's not that Milner did terribly - though I thought it was a game that really highlighted his weaknesses, especially in a midfield 2 (but then to the extent that's true it's on Klopp, not on Milner) - it's that what Keita can bring is one of the most powerful attributes a midfielder can have - the ability to turn the opponents pressure into our space.

It's exactly that which I thought we seriously missed against City. We only had Gini with ability to receive, move and play through tight spaces. But the difference between Gini and Keita is that Keita's got that wee kick of acceleration and pace to get away - to turn 4 people encroaching on him into 4 people behind him with our trident running at their back 4.

And I thought that situation - a transition through a pressed midfield, leading to our attack running at their defence with a man on the ball to feed it to them - is exactly what we didn't have enough of against City. The one time we did it was Salah escaping their press with a lovely turn, who then set Mane free for what we were really unlucky was not the opening goal.

But neither Hendo nor Milner can or ever will provide that. Keita did it 3 or 4 times in one half alone, and, I repeat, against a genuinely decent pressing side with a strong midfield. And he did it without the support of a 10, a 6 or, to an extent, even his midfield partner.

EDIT:
This is not to say I'm right and your wrong - my first comment was 100% genuine. I just wanted to explain where I'm coming from. I think I can see where others are too - he does seem to be in his shell a bit, he has misplaced more easy passes than you'd expect, he has seemed passive at times where you'd maybe have expected him to be dominant...

I'm just a lot more excited by the positives I've seen than the negatives. The latter strike me as a matter of confidence, where the former strike me as gold-dust in terms of top-level midfields.

good post - captures both sides pretty well.

If if you can't see the attributes he will bring to the table once settled and adapted - then you are purposefully being ignorant. Put aside the cost - (Fred costs 56m - and doesn't play) and stop saying the trite phrase "I would have expected more for 50m" and look at the skills that he has shown to date.

[sattapaartridge]

There is obviously a world class attacking midfield player in there. But he cant play the LCM position at the moment. He plays it like a left winger. If you compare heatmaps between him and milner, you'll see a mad difference. Milner would relinquish his position and go for the ball. Naby sticks to his position and waits for someone to get the ball to him, or go for a tackle when the ball is in his area. Almost like zonal play.

There is definitely a confidence/fear issue with Naby Keita. I think he's one who would benefit in scoring or assisting a goal. Hopefully, we can see him get a goal and start demanding the ball and running the game more. But he has to come inside the middle area of the pitch more too. If there is no threat down the left, just go inside and interfere with play.

Another thing though, if you compare Keita with our greatest 8, Gerrard, you'll see straight away what is missing from Keita. Strength, determination, power, leadership, shots from distance, long pass, powerfully-rude tackle. Even with Milner, you get some of these traits, we're yet to see it from Keita. Some of these have to be in his box of tricks if he's going to make it. I'm sure its in him.

[Melbred]

We'll do well to remember Ox's start here.. and here was a player who was accustomed to the league already.

Not all signings hit the ground running -but there's too much talent in Keita for that not to translate at some point.

He has actually done well in the majority of games he's played this season.. so no need for alarm bells I think.

[killer-heels]

People need to realise that sometimes it could be that a player takes a full season and not just a half season to adapt. Or, shock horror, a signing might not just work out at all.

Our success in the market seems to have spoilt people. I fully believe Keita will be brilliant for us but if he isnt then guess what, it happens. We have an amazing side and an amazing manager. We will be fine either way and will just sign someone else.

[GucciMane]

I want him to succeed as much as anyone but he really wasn`t excellent

he was skimming midfielders left right and center first half. Neves and Moutonho couldn’t get near him. They should have used him more as a outlet. Just think his final ball was lacking probably due to lack of match fitness. He is on another level to all our midfielders. He was excellent in the first half last night.

[nico 8]

For 50 odd million he been disappointing so far, but has shown glimpses of what he can do. It’s like he’s playing within himself.

So which player have you been happy with? Serious question.

[nico 8]

People need to realise that sometimes it could be that a player takes a full season and not just a half season to adapt. Or, shock horror, a signing might not just work out at all.

Our success in the market seems to have spoilt people. I fully believe Keita will be brilliant for us but if he isnt then guess what, it happens. We have an amazing side and an amazing manager. We will be fine either way and will just sign someone else.

Agreed. In addition, players need a run of games to find their groove and match fitness. Very few players can switch it on in an instant. We are fortunate that we have other midfielders who can carry us for now. Keita will get there.

[BER]

Quietly impressive last night. Done as much as he could really, had some nice dribbles but as soon as he passed the ball to Curtis Jones the ball was lost five seconds later. Some nice balls too, but again Sturridge was the one "running" onto them.

Hopefully we start getting more Nab-Fab-Gini moving forward. 

[El Lobo]

Wow. Opinions eh?

Indeed

Thought he was our best player apart from Fabinho

[IanZG]

Indeed

Thought he was our best player apart from Fabinho

I'd probably agree with you, though that's saying more about the rest of the team's performances than Naby.

I've said it before, the expectations put ahead of Naby were all but impossible to fulfill. People were talking about him being the best playing in the league before he ever kicked the ball for us (no exaggeration), if we signed Suarez with the same expectations, we'd probably be disappointed by him after his first season at the club. The only two players since probably Torres that managed to make such an impact for us are Salah and Van Dijk, one of whom was voted one of the top 5 players in 2018, the other is arguably the best CB in the world.

[BrandoLFC]

Threads like this are a pretty good example of why there shouldn't be any player threads on this forum as they always devolve into the same shit.  We didn't win yesterday and people think Keita should have played better.  So let's all go talk shit about a player without any context at all about what was actually going on in the game?  Ok then...

The Bundesliga is no better than the Championship?  What's Ligue 1 then?  LOL

[newterp]

Threads like this are a pretty good example of why there shouldn't be any player threads on this forum as they always devolve into the same shit.  We didn't win yesterday and people think Keita should have played better.  So let's all go talk shit about a player without any context at all about what was actually going on in the game?  Ok then...

The Bundesliga is no better than the Championship?  What's Ligue 1 then?  LOL

If I'm not mistaken - the Championship is pretty awful......but it might get a player more used to the pace and physicality of England than another league. That said - talented players from other leagues will (likely) adapt.

[Djimi Smicer34]

If I'm not mistaken - the Championship is pretty awful......but it might get a player more used to the pace and physicality of England than another league. That said - talented players from other leagues will (likely) adapt.

It's not.  There are some talented players and managers in the Championship.

The Bundesliga is just better.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Threads like this are a pretty good example of why there shouldn't be any player threads on this forum as they always devolve into the same shit.  We didn't win yesterday and people think Keita should have played better.  So let's all go talk shit about a player without any context at all about what was actually going on in the game?  Ok then...

The Bundesliga is no better than the Championship?  What's Ligue 1 then?  LOL

Nobody ever said that.

I called it a glorified Championship half tongue-in-cheek, half because I think it's currently miles behind the PL. I recall Klavan discussing this and how he found the step-up tough in his first few months at the club.

If the likes of yourself and De Facto want to take everything uber seriously every second you spend on this forum - honestly, you must be super fun at parties - then that's your prerogative.

As for Ligue 1, it's probably a little behind Bundesliga in terms of quality, but I think it's more translatable to our league both tactically and physically.

[bornandbRED]

People need to realise that sometimes it could be that a player takes a full season and not just a half season to adapt. Or, shock horror, a signing might not just work out at all.

Our success in the market seems to have spoilt people. I fully believe Keita will be brilliant for us but if he isnt then guess what, it happens. We have an amazing side and an amazing manager. We will be fine either way and will just sign someone else.

Just have to look at Bernardo Silva for an example of this. Barely played last season.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Nobody ever said that.

I called it a glorified Championship half tongue-in-cheek, half because I think it's currently miles behind the PL. I recall Klavan discussing this and how he found the step-up tough in his first few months at the club.

If the likes of yourself and De Facto want to take everything uber seriously every second you spend on this forum - honestly, you must be super fun at parties - then that's your prerogative.

As for Ligue 1, it's probably a little behind Bundesliga in terms of quality, but I think it's more translatable to our league both tactically and physically.

Was I having a pop at you or making a comment about you personally because of said opinion? Save that childish nonsense for someone else. Don't call me out and have a pop at me because we have different opinions. If I had a go at you and insulted you, I'd hold my hands up.

But you know fuck all about me personally, the same way I know fuck all about you. Opinions on football matters have fuck all to do with what we are as actual people.

You can make your point without having a go. You got more sense than that. I backed up my side of the argument, we disagree, move on but leave the dumb shite elshewhere.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Was I having a pop at you or making a comment about you personally because of said opinion? Save that childish nonsense for someone else. Don't call me out and have a pop at me because we have different opinions.If I had a go at you and insulted you, I'd hold my hands up.

But you know fuck all about me personally, the same way I know fuck all about you. Opinions on football matters have fuck all to do with what we are as actual people.

You can make your point without having a go. You got more sense than that. I backed up my side of the argument, we disagree, move on but leave the dumb shite elshewhere.

Given that you've done precisely that in the past and didn't do so, I'll take that with a pinch of salt.

All the best, I'm bored of your anger now.

[BrandoLFC]

I've stayed out of the Bundesliga thread as I do agree the quality has gone down from what it was before.  Bayern aren't as good as they were, mainly due to age, and I think Favre is a warlock and BVB is playing out of their mind.

With that said only Wolves coming out of the championship have actually been a decent team for as long as I can remember.  The rest have all been terrible that depended on other teams being even more terrible for them to not go right back down.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Given that you've done precisely that in the past and didn't do so, I'll take that with a pinch of salt.

All the best, I'm bored of your anger now.

So I went out of my way and  specifically and insulted you without provocation from your end what so ever? I don't remember that, if I did I apologize.

But you continue with the nonsense of having a pop ''bored of your anger'' drivel.

Don't flatter yourself,  I've gone through more in life than to be angry at your comment or anyone else on here. That's the problem when you come to conclusions based on text.

[rob1966]

If I'm not mistaken - the Championship is pretty awful......but it might get a player more used to the pace and physicality of England than another league. That said - talented players from other leagues will (likely) adapt.

I've seen a few Championship games this season and the standard has been better than a lot of Premier League games. It is probably easier to play your game in the Championship, as you are striving to get the the PL, whereas in the PL is the fear of being relegated and losing the money.

[CHOPPER]

Bang average last night.

[BrandoLFC]

Nobody ever said that.

I called it a glorified Championship half tongue-in-cheek, half because I think it's currently miles behind the PL. I recall Klavan discussing this and how he found the step-up tough in his first few months at the club.

If the likes of yourself and De Facto want to take everything uber seriously every second you spend on this forum - honestly, you must be super fun at parties - then that's your prerogative.

As for Ligue 1, it's probably a little behind Bundesliga in terms of quality, but I think it's more translatable to our league both tactically and physically.

If I'm going to single someone out I'll say so, I certainly have no problem doing it.  Just because I used something you said to highlight the ridiculousness of the entire thread doesn't mean it was meant just for you personally.  There was certainly a lot of shit posts to choose from to say the least.

As far as your posts if you want to claim now it was all a joke then whatever.  It's not about taking it uber serious as if it was funny I would be laughing as well.  Instead most of the posts in this thread yesterday was retarded gibberish slating a player without any understanding or context of what was going on.

[Redman78]

Bang average last night.

I thought so too. Still believe he'll come good though.

[Mutton Geoff]

Bang average last night.

I would say he looks like he is not sure what he is supposed to be doing is he a box to box player? because he seemed to be unsure when to go and when to stay last night, the quality is there just needs to start showing it,

 it does take some guys a while longer than others to adapt to the prem but i feel when he gets on track he will be a legend for us.

[Cu Chulainn]

With that said only Wolves coming out of the championship have actually been a decent team for as long as I can remember.  The rest have all been terrible that depended on other teams being even more terrible for them to not go right back down.

Southampton, West Ham, Swansea (2011-2018), Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford, and Burnley (and soon Wolves) have all come up since 2010 and stayed multiple seasons in the Premier League, mostly solidly mid-table, some of them sometimes qualifying for Europe and pushing the top 6. The managers of Swansea and Southampton got jobs at Liverpool and Spurs respectively because of the excellent jobs they did.

Then there is the best of the lot: Leicester City, promoted in 2014, Champions of England in 2016, CL quarter-finalists in 2017.

As someone who watches it regularly, I'm very happy to say the Championship is a good league, and hard to get out of. As good as the Bundesliga? No, obviously not. But not some terrible footballing backwater.

As for Keita, shown flashes of real ability this season, the quality is clearly there; just needs to bring it to the table more often. A goal would help his confidence I reckon.

[Lycan]

He's been disappointing so far, but it's clear injuries have stalled his progress. I'm still hopeful he'll come good though.

[Frank Becton]

He's been disappointing so far, but it's clear injuries have stalled his progress. I'm still hopeful he'll come good though.

We made a big investment in him, the hype over his arrival probably meant a lot of us expected an immediate return.

He has only shown glimpses so far for me, I hope the faith everyone has in him will be justified.
I am probably being a bit naïve and impatient, probably needs a run of games maybe, I agree niggling injuries and perhaps squad rotation haven't helped him, I really hope he starts to really show what he can do.
We can't wait forever though and keep saying he needs time.

[spider-neil]

Quietly impressive last night. Done as much as he could really, had some nice dribbles but as soon as he passed the ball to Curtis Jones the ball was lost five seconds later. Some nice balls too, but again Sturridge was the one "running" onto them.

Hopefully we start getting more Nab-Fab-Gini moving forward. 

So Keita's performance is Sturridge's fault?

[seal75]

He needs to learn english quick.
That may be a factor of great importance in the way he's performing right now.

[Rush 82]

Similar to the Ox - good flashes at the start, then underwhelmed until suddenly.....BOOM

The BOOM is gonna arrive any time now

[spider-neil]

Similar to the Ox - good flashes at the start, then underwhelmed until suddenly.....BOOM

The BOOM is gonna arrive any time now

anytime now...

Here it comes...

the BOOM...

Get ready...

anytime now...

[mrantarctica]

The problem is that we purchased him a year in advance and paid a lot, and then had a whole bunch of fans saying that he was one of the best CMs in Europe. We spent a whole year debating about whether he'd be a 6 or 8 or 10 etc. etc. In other words, he was completely overhyped.

It takes time to make your impact at a big club. He's only 23. At the same age, all of our other CMs weren't any better either. He's had a disrupted season due to injuries, team selection, tactical decisions etc. We need to be patient, but I don't think we will really see the best of him until next season. I've certainly seen some glimpses that he is a truly top class talent and will become a great player, but just struggling for consistency. Also one game where he hit the post once or twice - a goal flies in there really brings up his confidence and for a young player that can lift their game immensely. Its the little details that make the difference.

He's a top player, and we're lucky to have him. We need to be patient and not expect too much. Klopp needs to show confidence in him at the right times and give him minutes when he's fully fit. 

[spider-neil]

Personally, I don't think you see the best of Keita until next season. He'll be fully settled in and (you'd hope) he'll have a better grasp of the language. I read he doesn't know much English. Don't know if this is important but it certainly can't help. 

[harryc]

Personally, I don't think you see the best of Keita until next season. He'll be fully settled in and (you'd hope) he'll have a better grasp of the language. I read he doesn't know much English. Don't know if this is important but it certainly can't help.

Just curious but how much German did he know?