Author Topic: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?  (Read 483849 times)

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10880 on: February 23, 2021, 10:35:48 am »
Indeed on ref watch yesterday:

Trent incident was a penalty & red card.
Maguire elbow wasn't anything.
Fulham goalkeeper challenge wasn't a penalty or red.

According to Dermot Gallagher.
That's ridiculous.
There needs to be some kind of right of reply were clubs can get some explanations as to why one incident is given and another isn't.

The Mane example is a great one. so explain why if Trents was a pen (and a red), Mane's was neither.
The other one they love to bring out is normal contact. That Chelsea pen earlier in the season? Is that normal contact compared to the ones that have been denied to Salah and Mane?

I thought that refs used to visit clubs to explain rules and how they'll be reffed. Guessing that isn't happening at the moment because the refs don't have a clue.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10881 on: February 23, 2021, 11:04:45 am »
I had a wee trawl through the stats yesterday whilst RAWK was down, to see if there was anything beyond the sight test from actually watching the games. The one thing that stood out was the number of goals we’ve had disallowed by VAR:

6 is the answer. 6 out of 25 goals overturned in the entire 20 team league. Nearly 25% of goals overturned have been by 5% of league members. How is that even possible? Bad luck? Our deal with the devil finally run its course and now we’re in the payback phase?
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Offline MH41

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10882 on: February 23, 2021, 11:05:28 am »
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere, or I am out of order. I'm completely unaware of what has happened.
But was there any reason why this site has been down since Sunday night/Mon morning, and has returned with topics and pages missing?
Please remove this post if inappropriate. I just genuinely don't know. I'm slightly paranoid at the moment about all these strange VAR decisions, and the explanations provided by the authorities, and I'm putting 2+2 together, thinking that we're too close to the truth.....

Offline red_Mark1980

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10883 on: February 23, 2021, 11:07:48 am »
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere, or I am out of order. I'm completely unaware of what has happened.
But was there any reason why this site has been down since Sunday night/Mon morning, and has returned with topics and pages missing?
Please remove this post if inappropriate. I just genuinely don't know. I'm slightly paranoid at the moment about all these strange VAR decisions, and the explanations provided by the authorities, and I'm putting 2+2 together, thinking that we're too close to the truth.....


They've had server issues. I'd guess that they've gone to a backup version and that's why a few recent posts have been lost.

Offline free_at_last

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10884 on: February 23, 2021, 11:15:36 am »
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere, or I am out of order. I'm completely unaware of what has happened.
But was there any reason why this site has been down since Sunday night/Mon morning, and has returned with topics and pages missing?
Please remove this post if inappropriate. I just genuinely don't know. I'm slightly paranoid at the moment about all these strange VAR decisions, and the explanations provided by the authorities, and I'm putting 2+2 together, thinking that we're too close to the truth.....
I must be paranoid too because that was my first thought. In our case the old saying holds good though "Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that people(refs) aren't out to get you". :)
NB. Not a great backup/restore plan - you should be able to just roll the logs forward :)

Offline Phil M

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10885 on: February 23, 2021, 11:21:14 am »
Dermot Gallagher is the worst thing to come out of Dublin since Sarge.

;D
It's true to say that if Shankly had told us to invade Poland we'd be queuing up 10 deep all the way from Anfield to the Pier Head.

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10886 on: February 23, 2021, 11:39:51 am »
Indeed on ref watch yesterday:

Trent incident was a penalty & red card.
Fulham goalkeeper challenge wasn't a penalty or red.

According to Dermot Gallagher.

The fact that a former referee can look at these two incidents and say that one is a penalty and a red and the other is neither tells you everything you need to know about the modern game.

I guarantee that if you showed him incidents where other players were taken out after shooting in a far more deliberate way but no penalty given then he'd defend those decisions as well even though he is contradicting himself.  They all make it up as the go along and find ways to justify their ridiculous decisions.

He also said this about the Utd penalty:

Quote
I think this is what we call a 'modern-day penalty'. From what we've seen in the Premier League this season, they've decided if there's contact on the foot, they'll give a penalty. That's why, 25 rounds in, we've already had more penalties than any other season before. We talk about consistency - they have been consistent.

Yet against Everton when Digne catches Salah in the box slightly that isn't a penalty.  Nor is the tangle of legs with Mane against Southampton, or the Newcastle keeper grabbing Mane's leg, or Mane being taken out after shooting against Burnley, or Salah against Villa, etc etc.  They are consistent at backing up each other's decisions and that is about as far as it goes.
 

Offline MH41

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10887 on: February 23, 2021, 11:55:09 am »
Apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere, or I am out of order. I'm completely unaware of what has happened.
But was there any reason why this site has been down since Sunday night/Mon morning, and has returned with topics and pages missing?
Please remove this post if inappropriate. I just genuinely don't know. I'm slightly paranoid at the moment about all these strange VAR decisions, and the explanations provided by the authorities, and I'm putting 2+2 together, thinking that we're too close to the truth.....
Many thanks for the replies folks.
I'm still going along with my theory that we're too close to unearthing the truth, and ruining it for whoever is involved.
All mentions of the Harry Maguire elbowing incident has been removed, along with another VAR thread! 🤐🤣
The more I heard from clattenberg, Gallagher yesterday further confirms it.. No one unbiased can view those incidents and state what they came out with.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10888 on: February 23, 2021, 12:00:04 pm »
I’d love to see refs be tested on decisions where the footage is altered to blank the strips of the teams involved. I fully expected Liverpool to be one of the beneficiaries of VAR, in this day & age where there are no fans in the ground especially, because big teams usually get the decisions & attacking teams should cause more incidents in the opposition’s half. Yet here we are languishing at the bottom of the LiVARpool table.
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Offline Dull Tools

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10889 on: February 23, 2021, 12:03:43 pm »
I’d love to see refs be tested on decisions where the footage is altered to blank the strips of the teams involved. I fully expected Liverpool to be one of the beneficiaries of VAR, in this day & age where there are no fans in the ground especially, because big teams usually get the decisions & attacking teams should cause more incidents in the opposition’s half. Yet here we are languishing at the bottom of the LiVARpool table.

I have been wanting to see this too. Or just give them to a referee in Italy, Spain or Germany who doesn't know the background of the incidents and see what he gives once seeing the clip.

Offline free_at_last

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10890 on: February 23, 2021, 12:16:39 pm »
Let's face it there's not a lot we can do about this - the refs have screwed us and they and the media are thumbing their noses at us.
I just hope they don't totally derail us by keeping us out of the top 4.
One thing though - fans will return to the stadiums. Anfield has been a model of sporting fairness in the past and even pre-VAR we didn't get a lot of decisions because of that.
I think we should remember these c*nts and how they screwed us and give them a suitable welcome.
I can just imagine some of the ditties that may be created with this as inspiration:
https://twitter.com/Road_End_Red/status/1346478251124822022?s=19

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10891 on: February 23, 2021, 12:32:57 pm »
Dermot Gallagher is the worst thing to come out of Dublin since Sarge.

Don’t be ridiculous. As if Sarge has ever left Dublin.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10892 on: February 23, 2021, 12:42:40 pm »
I don't watch enough European football now or MLS to compare but they can't be ruining the game as much as the PGMOL?

Offline KillieRed

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10893 on: February 23, 2021, 01:49:55 pm »
Some more stats:

Touches- 1st (21,229)
Dribbles- 4th (11.2)
Tackles- 4th (13.4)
Fouls- 17th (9.4)
Fouled- 19th (8.2)
Pen For- 3rd= (6)
Pen Against- 8th= (4)

VAR Decisions:

Total Disallowed Goals;
25 (6 for, 1 against)

Leading to Goals:
0 for, 3 against.

Penalties:
0 for, 3 against.

All totally normal. Is it within the ’margin of error’ ? Who knows.

And, of course, this doesn’t include things that are not called that we see every week; 2 footed lunges ignored, the grappling & running through the backs of Mane & Salah when they receive the ball. The soft fouls given against us, the inconsistencies like Barnes getting a penalty that Mane doesn’t . Like SoS I’ve given up watching the league games & can’t even bear the highlights. They’ve ruined the game.

Edit: dolphins?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 01:52:58 pm by KillieRed »
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10894 on: February 23, 2021, 02:03:42 pm »
Some more stats:

Touches- 1st (21,229)
Dribbles- 4th (11.2)
Tackles- 4th (13.4)
Fouls- 17th (9.4)
Fouled- 19th (8.2)
Pen For- 3rd= (6)
Pen Against- 8th= (4)

VAR Decisions:

Total Disallowed Goals;
25 (6 for, 1 against)

Leading to Goals:
0 for, 3 against.

Penalties:
0 for, 3 against.

All totally normal. Is it within the ’margin of error’ ? Who knows.

And, of course, this doesn’t include things that are not called that we see every week; 2 footed lunges ignored, the grappling & running through the backs of Mane & Salah when they receive the ball. The soft fouls given against us, the inconsistencies like Barnes getting a penalty that Mane doesn’t  didn’t. Like SoS I’ve given up watching the league games & can’t even bear the highlights. They’ve ruined the game.

Edit: dolphins?

There are a lot of categories here too.

Penalties given against (should have been overturned, or confirmed)
Penalties given for (reversed/overturned or confirmed)

Offsides calls leading to goals against (reversed or allowed to stand)
Offsides calls leading to goals for (reversed or allowed to stand)

Handball calls leading to penalties for (reversed or confirmed)
Handball calls leading to penalties against (reversed or confirmed)

Fouls in the run play against (not called or reviewed and allowed to stand)
Fouls in the run play for (not called or reviewed and allowed to stand)

Actual goal line or VAR reviews of referee decisions that require a look at the monitor (against)
Actual goal line or VAR reviews of referee decisions that require a look at the monitor (for)

Card (yellow or red) against (comparable offenses)
Card (yellow or red) for (comparable offenses

Time taken to get a call right by Referee or VAR (against)
Time taken to get a call right by Referee or VAR (for)

End result of referee decisions on LFC point total (against)
End result of referee decisions on LFC point total (for)


Would enjoy a forensic accounting of this --- not only LFC but the entire Premier League. 
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10895 on: February 23, 2021, 02:07:55 pm »
I’m not sure if opta keep tally of that kind of thing as I believe it’s pay to use?
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Offline BoRed

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10896 on: February 23, 2021, 02:11:56 pm »
Touches- 1st (21,229)
Fouled- 19th (8.2)

These two are the most striking for me. Never mind VAR, goals and penalties, they are sabotaging us all over the pitch for 90 minutes.

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10897 on: February 23, 2021, 02:22:34 pm »
I’d love to see refs be tested on decisions where the footage is altered to blank the strips of the teams involved. I fully expected Liverpool to be one of the beneficiaries of VAR, in this day & age where there are no fans in the ground especially, because big teams usually get the decisions & attacking teams should cause more incidents in the opposition’s half. Yet here we are languishing at the bottom of the LiVARpool table.

The thing is, a lot of these incidents even with that it’s easy to tell who was involved. If you watch a decent amount of football you can tell who was involved. I don’t even watch close to every game but I reckon I could pick the right teams involved for 10 randomly picked big incidents

As for Gallagher, pretty sure he said Trent purposely raised his head :lmao waiting for the next time someone gets their face grabbed so he can say ‘he shouldn’t have put his chin into his hand there’
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 02:24:54 pm by RyanBabel19 »

Offline rob1966

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10898 on: February 23, 2021, 03:01:29 pm »
These two are the most striking for me. Never mind VAR, goals and penalties, they are sabotaging us all over the pitch for 90 minutes.

I won't watch league games any more, but it has been pointed out to me on here that the referees have all turned into Fernandinho, tactical fouls all over the pitch, blowing up all the time to disrupt our play.

The one stat that got me was Utd had about 1400 touches in the oppo area, us and City had over 5,000 and they have been given more penalties than us and City combined.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10899 on: February 23, 2021, 03:07:51 pm »
That penalty was up there with the maddest of the many mad decisions this season. A penalty for falling over and having a player trip over you is just fantastic!

Coupled with Slabhead being allowed to elbow players in the box, yep, all in all another great advert for the shittest league in the world.
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Offline redgriffin73

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10900 on: February 23, 2021, 03:25:16 pm »
What do the media/pundits or fans in other countries make of our refs and VAR, is it seen as any worse or farcical than others?
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Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10901 on: February 23, 2021, 04:19:08 pm »
These two are the most striking for me. Never mind VAR, goals and penalties, they are sabotaging us all over the pitch for 90 minutes.
Really striking stat there.
I wonder where in the table for touches the team fouled the least had?

Offline Agent99

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10902 on: February 23, 2021, 04:23:56 pm »
Wasn't there also a stat that showed Grealish had 160 odd fouls against him and Mo had like 20?

Offline KillieRed

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10903 on: February 23, 2021, 04:26:02 pm »
Really striking stat there.
I wonder where in the table for touches the team fouled the least had?

16th- Sheff Utd 14150, 7.8 fouled per game.

Combination of Premier League official stats & whoscored.com because, of course, you can’t get them in the same place.
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10904 on: February 23, 2021, 04:32:35 pm »
Most fouled -15.4 per game; Aston Villa. I know they have a lot of ball carriers (7th in dribbles)
, but they are 17th in touches.

Liverpool are 4th in dribbles. It’s almost as if we are reffed to a different standard.
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Offline redgriffin73

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10905 on: February 23, 2021, 04:44:28 pm »
Wasn't there also a stat that showed Grealish had 160 odd fouls against him and Mo had like 20?

Can't remember Grealish's numbers but he was the highest in the league I think. Mo was apparently fouled 18 times in the whole of last season. :lmao
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10906 on: February 23, 2021, 05:10:40 pm »
I won't watch league games any more, but it has been pointed out to me on here that the referees have all turned into Fernandinho, tactical fouls all over the pitch, blowing up all the time to disrupt our play.

The one stat that got me was Utd had about 1400 touches in the oppo area, us and City had over 5,000 and they have been given more penalties than us and City combined.

Interestingly the first time this really happened (at least that I noticed) was the second half against West Brom. Every time we tried to quickly win the ball back they'd just flop and get a free kick. Every time. Klopp even got booked for complaining about it by whatever Manchester ref was doing that game. We lost all our rhythm and they stole a point at the end.

Every home game since has been the same, we can't even press anymore because if we do it's an automatic free kick.

That was the difference at Leipzig. We were actually able to win the ball back and pressure Leipzig into mistakes without playing a non-contact sport that is the PL (when our opponents have the ball).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 05:13:58 pm by Fromola »
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Offline oldman

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10907 on: February 23, 2021, 05:18:18 pm »
Wasn't there also a stat that showed Grealish had 160 odd fouls against him and Mo had like 20?

grealish , vardy  & the mancs have perfected the art of trailing a leg until they feel contact and then going over.-  this is not considered diving or cheating by the refs or media

salah doesnt do this he only goes down when he feels an arm on his shoulder,

this IS considered cheating by the refs and media

unfortunately our players have got to wise up if they want decisions going their way but  I feel Klopp wold not be happy playing football this way

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10908 on: February 23, 2021, 05:30:59 pm »
Indeed on ref watch yesterday:

Trent incident was a penalty & red card.
Maguire elbow wasn't anything.
Fulham goalkeeper challenge wasn't a penalty or red.

According to Dermot Gallagher.

The Dermot Gallagaher with a Manchester United tattoo on his arm?
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10909 on: February 23, 2021, 05:53:58 pm »
Next time we get a pen and VAR is reviewing it, i'd love for the taker to hand the ball back to the Ref and say, keep it, we know you'll find a reason to overturn the call.  :lmao
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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10910 on: February 23, 2021, 05:58:59 pm »
grealish , vardy  & the mancs have perfected the art of trailing a leg until they feel contact and then going over.-  this is not considered diving or cheating by the refs or media

salah doesnt do this he only goes down when he feels an arm on his shoulder,

this IS considered cheating by the refs and media

unfortunately our players have got to wise up if they want decisions going their way but  I feel Klopp wold not be happy playing football this way

Utd players don't dive


Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10911 on: February 23, 2021, 06:03:46 pm »
16th- Sheff Utd 14150, 7.8 fouled per game.

Combination of Premier League official stats & whoscored.com because, of course, you can’t get them in the same place.
Thanks for that.
Certainly doesn't jump out like 1st for touches and 2nd lowest fouled.
Thing is, we all know it's ridiculous, so many contradictions.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10912 on: February 23, 2021, 06:05:32 pm »
Interestingly the first time this really happened (at least that I noticed) was the second half against West Brom. Every time we tried to quickly win the ball back they'd just flop and get a free kick. Every time. Klopp even got booked for complaining about it by whatever Manchester ref was doing that game. We lost all our rhythm and they stole a point at the end.

Every home game since has been the same, we can't even press anymore because if we do it's an automatic free kick.

That was the difference at Leipzig. We were actually able to win the ball back and pressure Leipzig into mistakes without playing a non-contact sport that is the PL (when our opponents have the ball).
But normal contact applies when we are being denied fee kick and pens

Offline rob1966

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10913 on: February 23, 2021, 06:07:30 pm »
But normal contact applies when we are being denied fee kick and pens

Pulling, holding and dragging back in the box are also OK with us, but a slight touch on an opponent is a penalty.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10914 on: February 23, 2021, 06:50:57 pm »
Can't remember Grealish's numbers but he was the highest in the league I think. Mo was apparently fouled 18 times in the whole of last season. :lmao

Just looked it up and now can’t find it but Grealish has been fouled 100 times this season! Next highest was Zaha on 56. Insane gap. Saudi was actually about third or fourth.

Salah isn’t in the top 100 but found another stat site that said he’s been fouled 12 times this season. :lmao

There was another stat that said Marriner had given Mo one free kick in the last ten games he’s reffed him.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10915 on: February 23, 2021, 06:53:04 pm »
Just looked it up and now can’t find it but Grealish has been fouled 100 times this season! Next highest was Zaha on 56. Insane gap. Saudi was actually about third or fourth.

Salah isn’t in the top 100 but found another stat site that said he’s been fouled 12 times this season
. :lmao

There was another stat that said Marriner had given Mo one free kick in the last ten games he’s reffed him.

:lmao

Mo gets fouled 12 times a game.

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10916 on: February 23, 2021, 06:56:21 pm »
And at the same time I looked that up I was sent some shite banter on a work group chat about Mo and diving. Would post all that if I’d think for a second the thick Brexit twats would take any note of it!

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10918 on: February 23, 2021, 07:00:11 pm »
And at the same time I looked that up I was sent some shite banter on a work group chat about Mo and diving. Would post all that if I’d think for a second the thick Brexit twats would take any note of it!
Saw headline on YouTube by ex Palace owner Simon Jordan who loathes Salah for his cheating ::)

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Re: VAR! Huh! What is it good for? Bit shit innit?
« Reply #10919 on: February 23, 2021, 07:02:34 pm »
The fact that a former referee can look at these two incidents and say that one is a penalty and a red and the other is neither tells you everything you need to know about the modern game.

I guarantee that if you showed him incidents where other players were taken out after shooting in a far more deliberate way but no penalty given then he'd defend those decisions as well even though he is contradicting himself.  They all make it up as the go along and find ways to justify their ridiculous decisions.

He also said this about the Utd penalty:

Yet against Everton when Digne catches Salah in the box slightly that isn't a penalty.  Nor is the tangle of legs with Mane against Southampton, or the Newcastle keeper grabbing Mane's leg, or Mane being taken out after shooting against Burnley, or Salah against Villa, etc etc.  They are consistent at backing up each other's decisions and that is about as far as it goes.
 
Yeah. A constant contradiction. They need a Souness on it if he is to stand by his words of the referee standard in this country. Warnock & Smith are too lenient towards Gallagher.