Author Topic: Chinese football and its impact  (Read 7198 times)

Offline red mongoose

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2016, 06:14:25 PM »
Seriously, though. "Chinese football and it is impact" is a shite thread header.

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Offline Iska

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2016, 06:32:03 PM »
Seriously, though. "Chinese football and it is impact" is a shite thread header.
Yeah, should've saved it for the Québécois football thread.

Offline Flinstone

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2016, 06:51:19 PM »
Seriously, though. "Chinese football and it is impact" is a shite thread header.

'appy?
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Online skipper757

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #83 on: December 30, 2016, 06:58:51 PM »
Chinese-American here.

The best thing to do when evaluating China is to be nuanced and think long-term.  China's growth may be unprecedented, but more importantly, its history and makeup of 1.3 billion people under an authoritarian regime doesn't exactly have many existing examples.  Many scholars, even those in China, would find it very difficult to predict what will happen.  I've read pieces from economic journals that predict the Yuan to be the major global currency by 2020 to pieces that don't think the Yuan will ever have that impact.  You can only develop a nuanced view.  For example, in CO2 emissions per capita, China isn't even in the Top 30.  However, that doesn't mean that things are rosy and that pollution in China is fine.  It's not.  While you can admire China's incredible investment efforts to combat pollution, you can also question the actual effectiveness of their initiatives.  Newterp's comments, for example, are not helpful to the debate as it comes across as a sporting rivalry type of comment ("can't wait until they get relegated.").  China's economy has a global impact, and a massive slowdown can cause issues for many people in many countries.  But you also can't stand idly and only praise China for its economic growth as there are still serious issues with consumption, wealth gap, waste, etc.  Look at things from both sides.  The Communist Party itself isn't monolithic, and the population certainly isn't either.

For the football, it's similarly complicated.  Football was always the sport of choice when I was growing up in China in the 90s.  There was interest in football domestically and abroad.  However, the national team never advanced (have since regressed) while other leagues are becoming more accessible and popular.  As for other sports, basketball has become massive.  Yao Ming helped push it forward, and the current NBA stars have kept the interest going.  Much like in football, a lot of the interest is in a foreign league.  Olympic sports helped serve up some country pride even when the country was dirt poor.  China's goal was to compete among the best, not just in individual events but even team events.  The women's teams in football, softball, and volleyball were world class.  Now that China's accomplished the goal of doing well in the Olympics, it's interesting that those women's teams are nowhere near as good and even the last Olympics showing was quite shit.  Maybe less of a fighting spirit?  Hell, in 2008, China had the most gold medals.  Hard to play up the underdog card after that.

So now, it turns to football.  The initiative is to improve the grassroots and domestic leagues.  Will it work?  Who knows?  The story will be very different from the United States because football was never that popular in the US.  Not only are the big four (baseball, basketball, american football, and hockey) more established, there is also a massive culture of collegiate sports.  NCAA basketball and american football are billion-dollar businesses.  American kids also like to play multiple sports at once (american football in the fall, basketball in the winter, and maybe baseball in the spring).  There are 2 and 3 sport athletes even at the collegiate level.  Some even decide which sport to turn professional in when they're around 20 years old.  It's a completely different way of thinking about sport than the football way with academies and professional contracts at 17.  China, on the other hand, does not have the sport structure of America.  Football can develop there the way it does in Europe and South America.  The thing is, it will take decades for that to happen.  There are a lot of factors at play, including things like the one-child policy.  Under that policy, parents could be reluctant to let their only child to push into sports, arts, etc.  Now that the policy is gone, parents may be more willing to let their kids explore creative careers rather than pushing them into math and science.  Will that lead to more interest in playing football as a career?  Maybe.  Will these massive foreign signings generate interest in the CSL and in turn inspire young kids to play?  Perhaps.  It's too early to tell.  Will a CSL team play in the UEFA Champions League?  Highly highly doubt it.  However, is it possible that China's push into football improves not only China's own league and talent but influences other surrounding populous countries (India:  1.3 billion; Indonesia:  255 million; Pakistan:  192 million; Bangladesh:  159 million; Japan:  127 million; Philippines:  101 million; Vietnam:  92 million)?  These are massive countries and outside of Japan, there's not a strong football structure.  Maybe the Asian leagues will improve in the decades going forward, and that the Asian Champions League will have much higher quality?  Could there be a Global Champions League by 2060?  Sounds crazy now, but the European Cup didn't exist until the 1950s.  Things change long-term.

China, like in many aspects, presents challenges and opportunities.  It could be long-term threat, but it's also an opportunity.  There's enough interest and population to have domestic leagues growing while still supporting foreign leagues with massive TV revenues.  Football isn't going to take off in a big way in the next 5 years and China isn't winning the World Cup by 2022.  But long-term?  Who knows?

Although the safe assumption is that the Chinese national team will be shit no matter what.  ;)
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #84 on: December 30, 2016, 07:22:05 PM »
Fuck the Daily Mail.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Chinese football and it's impact
« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2016, 07:34:23 PM »
Chinese-American here.

Although the safe assumption is that the Chinese national team will be shit no matter what.  ;)

Good post, thanks for this. What we're seeing now is a huge investment in footballing talent, seemingly on a different financial level to the rest of the world. The chance to unearth the first Chinese superstar in the game won't be overlooked in that process.

There are a billion people in China. There will be a kid somewhere with the potential to be a Suarez or a Gerrard, the problem is identifying and developing that kid to that level. That's the part that could take a generation or so. It happens here because every kid who shows an interest in the game has the opportunity to be seen by coaches and scouts. Does that network exist in China? Probably not, but if they can throw £50m at Oscar, it's only a matter of time before someone tries to systematically discover talent and invests in that.

Now whether that player will stay in China, or go on to become a major star in a European team is another question. Either way, that will be when the world takes notice of Chinese football. And in the meantime, just playing alongside the Brazilian stars who are moving over there will be great for Chinese players. Look how much the Premier League was improved technically and tactically by the influx of European players in the 90s.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #86 on: January 5, 2017, 09:25:46 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38524429

Chinese Super League clubs face caps on spending after 'burning money'

China's chief sports governing body has announced plans to cap the big spending of Chinese Super League clubs.

The league's current pre-season transfer window is set to break records in the wake of Oscar's £60m move to Shanghai SIPG from Chelsea and Shanghai Shenhua's £40m capture of Carlos Tevez.

The Argentina striker has reportedly signed a deal worth £310,000 a week.

A spokesperson for China's General Administration of Sport said clubs in the country were "burning money".

The spending was also described as "a grave phenomenon" in a question and answer session on the organisation's official website on Thursday.

The spokesperson added that the government body would "strengthen examination and supervision of clubs' financial affairs, progressively control clubs' expenditures on first-team players and ensure favourable financial conditions".

In December, Cristiano Ronaldo's agent Jorge Mendes claimed the player was offered an £85m annual salary after an unnamed Chinese club approached Real Madrid with a £250m bid.

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger and Chelsea counterpart Antonio Conte are among the leading figures to have expressed concern about players being lured to China because of the financial benefits.

The 2017 Chinese Super League campaign begins in March and finishes in November.
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Offline Le_Mot_Juste

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #87 on: January 5, 2017, 09:47:10 PM »
Slightly odd question, and revealing my own ignorance here - but isnt China in the Northern Hemisphere, and thus experience their summer during the height of their footballing season? Some parts of China are tropical/jungle conditions, so just curious as to why they'd not have a winter based footballing calendar, like the European leagues.
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #88 on: January 5, 2017, 11:21:04 PM »
Slightly odd question, and revealing my own ignorance here - but isnt China in the Northern Hemisphere, and thus experience their summer during the height of their footballing season? Some parts of China are tropical/jungle conditions, so just curious as to why they'd not have a winter based footballing calendar, like the European leagues.
possibly to match the other asian competitions, also i think having leagues running during european summer breaks might gain more interest when other football is off?

Offline Lolo

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #89 on: January 6, 2017, 05:30:31 AM »
Slightly odd question, and revealing my own ignorance here - but isnt China in the Northern Hemisphere, and thus experience their summer during the height of their footballing season? Some parts of China are tropical/jungle conditions, so just curious as to why they'd not have a winter based footballing calendar, like the European leagues.

...only a guess, but once you get north of Shanghai the winter months are BITTERLY cold and I think totally unsuitable for any form of outdoor sports (I spent 2 months during the winter in Tianjin which is roughly level with Beijing in the north and the temperature never got warmer than -6C with overnight lows of -15c  ::)) . However having said that, living and working as I do close to Guangzhou in the south-east region, trying to play in the 36C tropical heat and 95%+ humidity between April and November isn't for the feint hearted either.

Offline elsewhere

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #90 on: January 6, 2017, 05:47:49 AM »
Seriously, though. "Chinese football and it is impact" is a shite thread header.

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Offline Zeb

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #91 on: January 6, 2017, 05:50:55 AM »
Just to echo Nessy, but good post by skipper.
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2017, 11:20:59 AM »
Well they are shaking up the Jan transfer window a bit now as everyone just took notice yesterday of what possible strength they may have when they flex their financial muscle. Will be interesting to see what pans out at Chelsea and Costa but they wont be just knocking on Costa's door with a bag of money. Any player in their late 20s who's negotiating his last final contract may be tempted which is including any of our players and god forbid what if they tap up the boss in the next year or two? Hell you know they will try as they will try to bring the best managers there too. It will take some guts to go home n tell the missus you turned down a 20m plus for 3 years to head to China.
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Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2017, 11:27:15 AM »
Where is the money coming from?

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2017, 11:28:35 AM »
Fuck the Daily Mail.
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Offline ghost1359

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2017, 11:46:49 AM »
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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2017, 12:56:57 PM »
Teams to be restricted to playing 3 foreign players at a time apprently.

Chinese Super League clubs will only be allowed to play three non-Chinese players per game in their next season - which begins in March.

A rule change has reduced the number of foreigners allowed in a move which could slow down the wave of big-money signings from Europe.


http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38636082

Not quite sure how that is going to change things, being as it doesn't suggest you can't have more in the squad!

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2017, 02:07:42 PM »
16 teams in the CSL. That's nearly 50 players? In a way, they're just doing what the Premier League has done over the last 20 years, and Serie A before that.
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Offline Aceldama

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2017, 07:05:12 PM »
16 teams in the CSL. That's nearly 50 players? In a way, they're just doing what the Premier League has done over the last 20 years, and Serie A before that.

As I see it what they're doing is much more like MLS but taken to a whole new level. England and Italy both had established, successful leagues with a stable base of good domestic players to compliment the expensive foreign imports. The Chinese league is not established, nor does it have anything like a stable base of good players. Any big player who goes there is going to end up playing on a team that is so top heavy most of their teammates would struggle to get a professional contract in this country. Tianjin FC got beaten 11-0 in a friendly by KAA Gent last week.

Offline ggcc14

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Chinese Super League
« Reply #99 on: March 11, 2017, 09:24:19 AM »
Given its on sky and some of the players its attracting thought some may give it a watch.

Shanghai Shenhua face Tianjin Quanjian at 11:35am today, meaning Obafemina Martins, Freddy Guarin and Carlos Tevez face up against Alexandre Pato and Axel Witsel.. Shanghai managed by Gus Poyet and Tianjin by Fabio Cannavaro.

you can check out the league table here, 1 game into the new season;

http://www.livescore.com/soccer/china/
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Offline stevo7

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #100 on: July 1, 2017, 12:52:40 PM »
Oscar banned for 8 games for starting a melee & AVB + Hulk players suspended for 2 games for protest.
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/shanghai-sipg/story/3151009/andre-villas-boas-hulk-and-wu-lei-banned-and-fined-for-protests-against-oscar-ban

Don't think Costa would spend much time on the pitch over there.

Offline Iska

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #101 on: July 1, 2017, 08:38:08 PM »
That's an excellent brawl in fairness, 0-100 in 0.6 seconds.  If they were a serious league they'd be hyping it up instead.

Offline CrasherKid79

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #102 on: July 2, 2017, 12:26:59 AM »
Oscar banned for 8 games for starting a melee & AVB + Hulk players suspended for 2 games for protest.
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/shanghai-sipg/story/3151009/andre-villas-boas-hulk-and-wu-lei-banned-and-fined-for-protests-against-oscar-ban

Don't think Costa would spend much time on the pitch over there.

Eh? Whys Oscar banned there?

Offline DanA

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #103 on: July 2, 2017, 01:45:50 AM »
Eh? Whys Oscar banned there?

I think he kicked the ball to hard
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Offline pyroparty

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #104 on: July 2, 2017, 02:04:56 PM »
Good game this, Pato a laddd!

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Chinese Super League
« Reply #105 on: August 14, 2017, 09:39:29 PM »
Don't sky show this any more?

Offline ggcc14

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Re: Chinese Super League
« Reply #106 on: August 14, 2017, 09:39:58 PM »
Yes they do, why?
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Chinese Super League
« Reply #107 on: August 14, 2017, 09:43:28 PM »
Hadn't noticed it at the weekend on any channel that's all.

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Re: Chinese football and its impact
« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2017, 12:20:06 AM »

Tevez is facing criticism and has now lashed out verbally.

Wu Xiaohui:

"Our intention was to bring in an influential star player with high quality, and we all think Tevez could fit the bill."

"However, due to a lack of winter training and match fitness, he didn't meet our expectations."

Wu Jingui:

"He is overweight, along with [Fredy] Guarin. I have to take responsibility for the team and the players as well."

"If you are unable do your utmost to play, there's no point in picking you. I have coached lots of big stars, and my players are never picked on reputation."

Tevez:

"Chinese players are not as naturally skilled like South American or European players."

"Like players who learned football when they were kids. They’re not good. Even in 50 years, they still won’t be able to compete."