Topic: Grenfell Tower Fire

[Yorkykopite]

The weather is going to be very hot in London this weekend.

[redmark]

One local said: “The tower block is more strong and stable than that woman.”

Ouch.

[Ghostface]

If I'm the media I'd be VERY careful what you ask or say to them.

[Fiasco]

A specific number of a £5 million fund seems rather odd. Why not just give them every penny they need, why limit the figure? This is a national tragedy.

[redmark]

A specific number of a £5 million fund seems rather odd. Why not just give them every penny they need, why limit the figure? This is a national tragedy.

Dan Johnson on BBC just asked two women about it - not impressed. "We've raised nearly that much ourselves on GoFund pages".

[Fiasco]

Dan Johnson on BBC just asked two women about it - not impressed. "We've raised nearly that much ourselves on GoFund pages".

They spent 10 million to refurbish the building itself last summer. I just don't understand it.

[redmark]

They spent 10 million to refurbish the building itself last summer. I just don't understand it.

Yeah, they said that too. "They spent £10m on that cladding that burnt our people".

Some rather fluid facts and figures, but a lot of anger. Clearly a lot of it not just about the tower, either.

[Fiasco]

Yeah, they said that too. "They spent £10m on that cladding that burnt our people".

Some rather fluid facts and figures, but a lot of anger. Clearly a lot of it not just about the tower, either.

Just watching that now mate, that young lady is very angry and it's palpable. The news lately has been shocking, the terrorist attacks make you feel helpless and numb, and indeed angry. But I find myself absolutely raging watching and reading about this.

[redmark]

Just watching that now mate, that young lady is very angry and it's palpable. The news lately has been shocking, the terrorist attacks make you feel helpless and numb, and indeed angry. But I find myself absolutely raging watching and reading about this.

I agree, something about this - that it was very likely preventable, that the causes seem to be about money, the reactions - is 'worse'. Like Yorky said on the other thread, this feels like a pivotal event in society.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Just watching that now mate, that young lady is very angry and it's palpable. The news lately has been shocking, the terrorist attacks make you feel helpless and numb, and indeed angry. But I find myself absolutely raging watching and reading about this.

It's the disregard they were shown - they had the temerity to be poor and working-class, and were educated enough to realise what was going on. The establishment didn't heed their warnings, all in the name of profit.

I hope they refuse to leave the council building until all demands are met. They won't tell people how many occupiers were stated as being in the building.

[redmark]

Guardian:

Around 100 protestors held a minute’s silence for the victims of Grenfell outside government offices saying the victims of recent terror attacks were treated with more respect that those in the inferno.

“There has been no minute’s silence for the victims of Grenfell. We want to remind politicians that people killed by politicians are equally as valuable as those killed by terrrorists,” said one speaker before the crowd fell silent for one minute.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

The parallels with Hillsborough are obvious and well documented, but the seeming lack of concern for poor people and ghettoised ethnic minorities also has chilling parallels with the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. Theresa May seems set on taking the FEMA approach.

[Trada]

 The Telegraph‏Verified account @Telegraph 3m3 minutes ago

Theresa May chased from church as angry #GrenfellTower protesters brand Prime Minister a 'coward'

[pyroparty]

Theresa May chased from church as angry #GrenfellTower protesters brand Prime Minister a 'coward'

Good stuff. She's absolute scum.

[redmark]

The weather is going to be very hot in London this weekend.

Yes. The conditions are there.

What I've heard today (sitting here 'working' watching News 24) makes sense of the apparent obsession with the numbers, too. Local people are convinced that there are 'hundreds' dead. Reports of people seeing rows of body bags from the train, the consequences of earliest firefighters advising people to stay in their flats. The suspicion that although some 70 ish people are 'known' missing, were there entire families with no one left to report them missing?

The lack of co-ordinated response - particularly from the council - seems to have fanned that into a really volatile situation.

[TALBERT]

The whole thing stinks.

Councils, building contractors, Government, Theresa May and the MSM (BBC, SKY and that shitrag).

This is 2017 and this is happening

Fuck Brexit - I couldn't give a fuck

Making people safe if their own homes and on the streets is more important.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

By their attitude to the whole matter, this Government is seriously risking civil disorder.

[TALBERT]

The Telegraph‏Verified account @Telegraph 3m3 minutes ago

Theresa May chased from church as angry #GrenfellTower protesters brand Prime Minister a 'coward'

She SIMPLY HAS to go!

Our own Prime Minister can't face her public because she is a fucking coward!

[۩ Imperator ۩]

The weather is going to be very hot in London this weekend.

You are absolutely right to highlight this. The anger is so raw. Nobody advocates rioting, but when it occurs, it is a natural consequence of not being listened to.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

By their attitude to the whole matter, this Government is seriously risking civil disorder.

This government is finished over this. That Tory c*nt waffling on about money trees and that twat Johnson dismissing concern about fire staffing levels will be their undoing.

Play them on a loop in the run-up to the next election.

[Trada]

Its so hard to know how they can calm it all down a lot of the anger is driven by grief.

But something must be done.

[TALBERT]

By their attitude to the whole matter, this Government is seriously risking civil disorder.

It's the same attitude that just about got her elected. The arrogance of the woman. Police escort and plain clothed security. She is probably surrounded by more suits than the Queen.

Jezza's there day one no security.

Storm the council - storm Downing Street.

The fear and devastation is now turning into anger.

You can only kick people so much before they start kicking back harder! These people have been ignored by Westminster for decades.

[Fiasco]

The parallels with Hillsborough are obvious and well documented, but the seeming lack of concern for poor people and ghettoised ethnic minorities also has chilling parallels with the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. Theresa May seems set on taking the FEMA approach.

Yes, this could be a watershed event. The parallels with Hillsborough are obvious, and especially so to us connected with the club and city. The wider public is well aware now of course, but the shifting of the blame by some media outlets, diverting information, confusion, all of that is there.

You raise a very good point about Hurricane Katrina. A very good point. I've been thinking that it reminds me of something and that is exactly it. It is almost impossible to imagine this kind of event happening to anybody other than the poor, the unemployed, the underprivileged and those below a certain class.

Saddening, sickening, heart-wrenching and quite possibly, entirely preventable.

[Yorkykopite]

You are absolutely right to highlight this. The anger is so raw. Nobody advocates rioting, but when it occurs, it is a natural consequence of not being listened to.

I live in Brixton and have lived through at least three summer riots. It always gets a bit hairy, especially when the arsonists get going. I hope the cool heads win out this weekend, not the hot heads. And certainly, if we are going to get answers and accountability for this disaster the hot heads will need to be reined in.

[TALBERT]

When she announced that she is making £5 million available. I hope the victims questioned her to see if she had planted a 'magic money tree'.

In her news night interview tonight she comes across like a cold unsympathetic c*nt!

[redmark]

Yes, this could be a watershed event. The parallels with Hillsborough are obvious, and especially so to us connected with the club and city. The wider public is well aware now of course, but the shifting of the blame by some media outlets, diverting information, confusion, all of that is there.

You raise a very good point about Hurricane Katrina. A very good point. I've been thinking that it reminds me of something and that is exactly it. It is almost impossible to imagine this kind of event happening to anybody other than the poor, the unemployed, the underprivileged and those below a certain class.

Saddening, sickening, heart-wrenching and quite possibly, entirely preventable.

The complete absence of a coordinated relief effort is really reminiscent of Katrina. There's a lot of frustration from those engaged in the volunteer effort - nowhere to put stuff, no organisation to distribute it.

"Lack of leadership at local and national level".

[Something Else]

A specific number of a £5 million fund seems rather odd. Why not just give them every penny they need, why limit the figure? This is a national tragedy.

Can you "win" in this situation? Say money is there and we will do what we can and people will want a figure. Say a figure and people may say it's not enough. Say something unrealistic and then don't give that and you are screwed.

I'll be honest I've no idea what figure would seem "right and fair". What I'd hope is after this £5m is spent, if more is needed, it's found.

[CallumLFC]

Real bad feeling we could have a repeat of the riots in 2011. Work in Kensington and you can feel the anger here.

[Fiasco]

Can you "win" in this situation? Say money is there and we will do what we can and people will want a figure. Say a figure and people may say it's not enough. Say something unrealistic and then don't give that and you are screwed.

I'll be honest I've no idea what figure would seem "right and fair". What I'd hope is after this £5m is spent, if more is needed, it's found.

Well no, but not only does £5m seem rather low it seems rather arbitrary. Give them what they need. People might well want a direct figure but you literally cannot put a price on this kind of thing. It just seems odd to me.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

When she announced that she is making £5 million available. I hope the victims questioned her to see if she had planted a 'magic money tree'.

In her news night interview tonight she comes across like a cold unsympathetic c*nt!

She is a c*nt. JRM was given about £8m to do a mansion up. Within spitting distance of that tower there are houses where you wouldn't get change out of £5m.

It's an insult to those who are having to deal with this.

Austerity kills and trickle-down economics doesn't work. Who would have guessed it?

There is nationwide anger at this. This will finish this Government and it needs to be kept front and centre to ensure it never happens again.

[Trada]

She should have met the survivors etc yesterday and faced the heckles that was going to happen.

Going today it feels more about saving face than really caring.

It was a terrible misjudgement on the governments part.

[TALBERT]

Real bad feeling we could have a repeat of the riots in 2011. Work in Kensington and you can feel the anger here.

I feel May needs to resign to ease tension. She is now being seen as enemy number one. Surely the most hated woman in the UK right now. Pushing hundreds of people back from getting to her car.

The media need to back the FUCK OFF.

The council need to get involved

[redmark]

Can you "win" in this situation? Say money is there and we will do what we can and people will want a figure. Say a figure and people may say it's not enough. Say something unrealistic and then don't give that and you are screwed.

I'll be honest I've no idea what figure would seem "right and fair". What I'd hope is after this £5m is spent, if more is needed, it's found.

I think the figure becomes a lose-lose because of the failings of the previous two days. No answer on where people will be rehoused. No coordination of relief efforts. No local elected official showing up. The Prime Minister can't meet people because of 'security concerns'. The local council leader goes on Newsnight and says the residents "didn't want" a sprinkler system installed. The council puts out a statement saying that not everyone may be rehoused locally, then withdraws it.

Compare the reaction of the authorities - not the emergency services - to that after a terrorist incident. They've fucked this up, massively.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

She should have met the familes yesterday and faced the heckles that was going to happen.

Going today it feels more about saving face than really caring.

It was a terrible misjudgement on the governments part.

Whatever she does now, it's saving face. Symbolism is everything. People will remember Corbyn hugging that crying woman in the shadow of that crematorium. They'll remember her stage-managed appearance for the cameras and realise that she simply doesn't care. They'll remember her being ushered out under guard from a church in the days after.

Fuck austerity and fuck the Tories.

[redmark]

The media need to back the FUCK OFF.

The council need to get involved

Too late for the council. Don't really see what most of the media has done wrong, either. The BBC (and from what I understand but don't watch it, Sky) has put a huge number of local people in front of a camera and let them say whatever they want (as did C4 last night).

[TALBERT]

For the safety of our streets, police force and emergency services she needs to resign.

[SP]

I think the figure becomes a lose-lose because of the failings of the previous two days. No answer on where people will be rehoused. No coordination of relief efforts. No local elected official showing up. The Prime Minister can't meet people because of 'security concerns'. The local council leader goes on Newsnight and says the residents "didn't want" a sprinkler system installed. The council puts out a statement saying that not everyone may be rehoused locally, then withdraws it.

Compare the reaction of the authorities - not the emergency services - to that after a terrorist incident. They've fucked this up, massively.

After a terrorist attack, the police cordon everything off and tell everyone to bugger off. We have not had a terrorist attack that permanently displaced so many people. Sadiq Khan has taken much of the frontline role. But with council services slashed, they simply have no slack in the system to magic up staff. And they certainly don't have the leadership to manage them.

[Something Else]

I think the figure becomes a lose-lose because of the failings of the previous two days. No answer on where people will be rehoused. No coordination of relief efforts. No local elected official showing up. The Prime Minister can't meet people because of 'security concerns'. The local council leader goes on Newsnight and says the residents "didn't want" a sprinkler system installed. The council puts out a statement saying that not everyone may be rehoused locally, then withdraws it.

Compare the reaction of the authorities - not the emergency services - to that after a terrorist incident. They've fucked this up, massively.

Oh I agree. I think anything that has anything political involved is poisonous at the minute given such division and the actions have certainly not done anything to improve that situation. But I don't know what can be done in such a short space of time.

Clearly they have processes in place for terrorist incidents, what should be done, what should be said, how should they act etc, but I would imagine there is far less pre planning done for incidents like this. (Of course that does not defend any lack of human decency)

Some of the words seem appropriate, will support the families, will perform an inquest etc but that's all tomorrows plan it seems. People are angry of what has led to this event and what has seemingly not yet started.

I think I read somewhere it described as May's Hurricane Katrina moment.

[TALBERT]

Too late for the council. Don't really see what most of the media has done wrong, either. The BBC (and from what I understand but don't watch it, Sky) has put a huge number of local people in front of a camera and let them say whatever they want (as did C4 last night).

BBC have been good ITV have been better

ITV have shown pictures of May fleeing from church as hundreds of people are pushed back by police.

Criticism of the Royal family.

Woman breaking down while Queen was visiting (so hard to listen to, absolutely heartbreaking)

The gutter press however have been disgraceful

[redmark]

The gutter press however have been disgraceful

That's why they're called the gutter press.

The broadcast media appears to have handled this fairly well - if anything, a little too 'raw' at times, but they can't be accused of hushing anything up (which hasn't stopped that being said).

At the protest earlier, there was a bizarre bit from a very angry young woman: "Hear that helicopter? That's the BBC, but they've cut the sound, they don't want to hear us, but we have to be heard". I saw and heard it on the BBC.