Topic: Incident at Manchester Arena

[killer-heels]

Great to see the Queen visiting the injured. At 91 too.

Can 91 year olds who have lived a life of privalege not walk?

[JHova2427]

Can 91 year olds who have lived a life of privalege not walk?

I would say it depends on the 91 year old.

[Cliff Bastin]

Can 91 year olds who have lived a life of privalege not walk?

It's probably not as easy as it looks.

[killer-heels]

It's probably not as easy as it looks.

She was swanning around the Chelsea Flower show quite readily so for her its probably quite easy.

[12C]

On the leaks, it's worth noting that the British media have all (?) now followed suit and published photos of bomb parts, etc - the investigation may have been undermined by US intelligence and the NYT, but it's the BBC and Sky News etc who have caused families distress in the UK by publishing.

Just said the same thing now watching the news. 
24 hrs news cycle. Crazy

Just feel so sorry for the victims and their families.

[Zeb]

From the MEN's live feed.

Suicide bomber Salman Abedi phoned his mother hours before his attack and said “forgive me”, according to a Libyan anti-terror official.

Police are still hunting the “network” behind his attack but said they had made “significant” arrests and seized “very important” items in raids linked to the investigation.

After chairing a meeting of the Cobra emergency committee, Theresa May said the terror threat level will remain at critical - meaning another attack is expected imminently.

In an indication of the level of counter-terrorism activity, a senior Whitehall source revealed that 18 plots had been foiled since 2013 in Britain, including five in just nine weeks since the Westminster attack in March this year.

It is understood the scale of the threat being dealt with by counter-terror agencies is “unprecedented” and intelligence officers faced “difficult professional judgments” about where to focus their investigations.

Would seem a bit rude to lay into the security services, as some of the press seem to be doing, without having any sort of context.

[ToneLa]

Andy Burnham confirms Manchester police are no longer sharing intel with US

Shouldn't have been in the first place. That country is a mess

---

I had a job interview recently with the police, for an IT position. I asked a vague question about if the role had changed recently due to restructuring (it was a bit different from any job I've done before and seemed to cover a lot of bases) and one of the interview panel came back with a little rant about budget cuts, how there's not enough bobbies, they're cut in every sector, and this role is 2 in 1 to save money.

I was taken aback at me, a civilian, being told such detail apropos of the smallest question, but just goes to show. Tory cuts are cutting essential services.

[Alan B'Stard]

It this a suburb of Manchaester?  Its just Warickshire is throwing me, Manchaester vis Lancahshire right?

No mate, it's 12miles from Coventry! Looks like this tragedy is spanning other parts of the UK.

[ToneLa]

ONE AND A HALF MILLION QUID RAISED AND STILL RISING! 

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/westandtogethermanchester

[vagabond]

How horrible. Rest in peace.

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

I do not know what type of entry device is being used but as quoted above this is one reason for controlled explosion entry with a small charge, it either blows a hole in the centre of the door or the whole door clean off as when they booby trap them it tends to be at the lock or hinges which will trigger as the door is opened so this ensures safe entry for the officers (IF there was a trap, no real way of checking at times I would imagine)

Door in Mosside they breached.

[Lfsea]

Door in Mosside they breached.

You can tell that the door is designed quite specifically not to be fucked with. It's a very robust industrial handle on the door which would be unusual to see on a front door and the frame has been reinforced around the lock/latch. I'm actually surprised no one thought that was suspicious before hand.

[Alan_X]

You can tell that the door is designed quite specifically not to be fucked with. It's a very robust industrial handle on the door which would be unusual to see on a front door and the frame has been reinforced around the lock/latch. I'm actually surprised no one thought that was suspicious before hand.

(Puts architect hat on) Plates to protect the lock are fairly common in high crime areas. It's not a high security lock like a Banhams, just a standard Eurocylinder. The handle looks like a 19mm d-line copy- probably cheap aluminium. (Takes architect hat off). There might have been secondary locks and bolts on the inside.

Edit - there is a secondary plate over the lock which does look a bit unusual but again, if it's a high crime area it wouldn't look out of place.

[The Gulleysucker]

..... if it's a high crime area it wouldn't look out of place.

It is Mosside...

Has some close friends who lived there back in the late 70's when it was largely studenty but then got out when it all went a bit wildwest in the 80's, gunshots starting to be heard a little bit too frequently for comfort in the evenings.

[cloggypop]

You can tell that the door is designed quite specifically not to be fucked with. It's a very robust industrial handle on the door which would be unusual to see on a front door and the frame has been reinforced around the lock/latch. I'm actually surprised no one thought that was suspicious before hand.

It's in Moss Side. I used to live in Toxteth and we had a door that you couldn't just kick through. Fairly normal I'd say.

[redbyrdz]

Could also be repairs to a door that had previously been forced open. Again not that unusual in Moss Side.

[Clint Eastwood]

Still can't stop thinking about this, very close to home having lived in Manchester for since starting university there a while back. The buildings attacked and the areas where the raids have been I know quite well. You see things like this happen in other places, and it's always tragic, but when you see such familiar sights all over international news in this context it's a completely different feeling, and everyone is so on edge.

Just so fucking gutted for those families who've been torn apart.

[Sarge]

No mate, it's 12miles from Coventry! Looks like this tragedy is spanning other parts of the UK.

Cheers mate the demographics are throwing me, Coventry is midlands via Brum yers?

[TepidT2O]

Cheers mate the demographics are throwing me, Coventry is midlands via Brum yers?

I believe you may have maps in Ireland these days?

[Sarge]

I believe you may have maps in Ireland these days?

Stop being silly now, not in here but yes we do. Looks nationwide to be honest this investigation. Hopefully the Met/MI5/Army can break these cells.

Major problem with cells is that they are inbedded within society and can be call upon at anytime. I believe that not just Muslims but society in general must stay alert and report every little thing not matter how trivial.

[Zeb]

More raids over night, mainly south of the city and Moss Side in particular. People arrested and then released so still leaving 8 men in custody here, plus two in Libya.

MEN has an article on where things are at right now. Plenty more in there than the bit I'm quoting under fair usage.

Intelligence chiefs now believe the terror cell behind Monday night’s deadly Manchester Arena attack was a Libyan Islamist network extending across Greater Manchester and beyond.

Three days after 22 people lost their lives in the blast, officials feel they have now ‘got the measure’ of the network that plotted it.

The M.E.N. understands that Thursday’s meeting of Cobra, the government’s crisis response committee, was considerably more positive than over the previous 48 hours.

Emerging intelligence indicates the cell behind Monday’s atrocity was not entirely contained to a small area of south Manchester, but rather that its common thread was radical Islamists with a Libyan background.

“The sense is that they’ve found the extent of this network,” said one source.

“There was a very different feel today compared to Tuesday or Wednesday.

“There was a sense that they had got the measure of it. It’s a network, not just in south Manchester but with links to Wigan and other areas – it’s less geography and more Libyan.”

However that did not mean everyone connected with the attack was now in police custody, they said, indicating some are still on the loose.

A second senior source said that while an extensive Libyan cell was ‘clearly’ at work, it was not necessarily part of a wider global network.

“There appears to be a view that it’s clearly a network, but that the network is contained and that it’s not connected to other networks,” they added.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/libyan-terror-network-extending-across-13094703

[Lfsea]

(Puts architect hat on) Plates to protect the lock are fairly common in high crime areas. It's not a high security lock like a Banhams, just a standard Eurocylinder. The handle looks like a 19mm d-line copy- probably cheap aluminium. (Takes architect hat off). There might have been secondary locks and bolts on the inside.

Edit - there is a secondary plate over the lock which does look a bit unusual but again, if it's a high crime area it wouldn't look out of place.

I grew up in a relatively rough part of north Wales - and as you know have lived in some moody parts of London - and don't ever recall seeing a construction like that on a door. Obviously got lucky.

It reminds me of the setup we had to access the safe deposit room in my old restaurant, which is what made me think twice.

[PhilV]

That video of Tony Bellew doing the rounds on FB and the like now about this attack... in it he says "why didn't we deport him"


The guy was born in England FFS, loads of people agreeing with him and blaming the authorities and our soft government.... what is the world coming too, hindsight is a lovely thing but people are seriously uneducated.... you can't just lock up anyone and everyone who you might suspect! Sometimes suspicions are wrong!?


FFS

[Peabee]

I grew up in a relatively rough part of north Wales - and as you know have lived in some moody parts of London - and don't ever recall seeing a construction like that on a door. Obviously got lucky.

It reminds me of the setup we had to access the safe deposit room in my old restaurant, which is what made me think twice.

I think they probably did in Flint. ;-)

I went for a run around Elephant Castle / Walworth, and there's doors with bars over them.  Same in Bow.  I've never looked close enough at the actual doors though.

[Lfsea]

I think they probably did in Flint. ;-)

I went for a run around Elephant Castle / Walworth, and there's doors with bars over them.  Same in Bow.  I've never looked close enough at the actual doors though.

Flint is where people from Connah's Quay went on holiday!

[Zeb]

Know there's a few on here who know people who were there at the Arena, so just flagging that Victim Support are geared to offer free support to anyone who may need it now, or later.

Victim Support number: 0808 168 9111

https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/victim-support

Ellen Miller, Victim Support’s Service Director for Northern England, said: “From our experience of supporting victims of terrorism we know witnesses and the wider public are affected by these traumatic incidents. It can be in the days, weeks or even months afterwards that people feel the emotional impact of witnessing a terrorist incident.

“Families bereaved by terrorism have automatic access to high quality care through the government funded Homicide Service – which is delivered by Victim Support – but witnesses and the wider public who survive an attack and suffer psychological or less serious physical injuries fall through gaps in the system.

“We want to make it clear that our support teams are ready to support all victims now, but will also be available in the months following this tragedy, to offer the practical and emotional support that victims and witnesses deserve.

“So far we have received calls from people as young as 16 seeking help following the attacks, as well as distressed parents asking for advice on how to support their children, who have been traumatised by what they witnessed on Monday night.”

Through funding provided by the Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham and police and crime commissioners across the country, Victim Support has a network of support systems available to people both now and in the long term.

[12C]

That video of Tony Bellew doing the rounds on FB and the like now about this attack... in it he says "why didn't we deport him"


The guy was born in England FFS, loads of people agreeing with him and blaming the authorities and our soft government.... what is the world coming too, hindsight is a lovely thing but people are seriously uneducated.... you can't just lock up anyone and everyone who you might suspect! Sometimes suspicions are wrong!?


FFS

Some daft columnist from a certain broadsheet was arguing for internment camps the other day, for anyone who the security service are investigating. People using this terrible tragedy on all sides for political gain. Terrible!

[zero zero]

[CornerFlag]

Happily, that cretin Hopkins was fired by LBC today.  For this (unofficially, there's no reason been released yet).

[zero zero]

Happily, that cretin Hopkins was fired by LBC today.  For this (unofficially, there's no reason been released yet).

Spelling Nazis?

[paulrazor]

good. she is a stupid fucking miserable cow anyway

[Sarge]

good. she is a stupid fucking miserable cow anyway

That she certainly is but I dont get the reason behind the Tweet?

[jambutty]

Behold the mighty warrior

[Alan_X]

That she certainly is but I dont get the reason behind the Tweet?

'Final Solution'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

[Sarge]

'Final Solution'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

Oh fuck me what a dozy c*nt of a woman, thanks Alan.

[FlashingBlade]

Something is starting to bother me. I appreciate we are still in a period of extreme sensitivity to what occured however Im concered that the medias focus on Manchesters response is ignoring a major issue.

I fully understand and support the sense of communal grief felt by Mancunians in the horror that occured in their city and a need to express it.  Their emergency services deserve the highest praise ( especially the NHS staff) as does the locals who offered up assistance...the vicitms and their familes are all in our hearts ahd thoughts ,however, the support and praise being given to a city region apears to leave out those actually directly afffected ..basically the 18,000 who attended the gig, who are most likely from many parts of Northern Britain ( as sadly the victims have shown)...Where is their comfort and support in the media?

I appreciate the stance is to show their city will not be cowed by terroism...but that is true of the whole of the UK.
Im concered in the post bomb trauma , Manchester will become the focus, whilst those who are directly affected are left to seek their own support.

I know, you know, those affected by Hillsborough where not just the vicitms it was everyone present. I just hope these pople dont feel marginilised by the medias and to be honest Manchester itself focusing on its' Spirit and Uniqueness'

[alonsoisared]

Something is starting to bother me. I appreciate we are still in a period of extreme sensitivity to what occured however Im concered that the medias focus on Manchesters response is ignoring a major issue.

I fully understand and support the sense of communal grief felt by Mancunians in the horror that occured in their city and a need to express it.  Their emergency services deserve the highest praise ( especially the NHS staff) as does the locals who offered up assistance...the vicitms and their familes are all in our hearts ahd thoughts ,however, the support and praise being given to a city region apears to leave out those actually directly afffected ..basically the 18,000 who attended the gig, who are most likely from many parts of Northern Britain ( as sadly the victims have shown)...Where is their comfort and support in the media?

I appreciate the stance is to show their city will not be cowed by terroism...but that is true of the whole of the UK.
Im concered in the post bomb trauma , Manchester will become the focus, whilst those who are directly affected are left to seek their own support.

I know, you know, those affected by Hillsborough where not just the vicitms it was everyone present. I just hope these pople dont feel marginilised by the medias and to be honest Manchester itself focusing on its' Spirit and Uniqueness'

you mention hillsborough but of course many of the 96 werent from Liverpool and the fight for justice has always been seen as a Liverpool thing (you picked on the wrong city etc). I think its a natural thing to do.

My problem with the massive focus on manchester as a city is that any community would react the same. We hear it with everything; the spirit of new york after 9/11, london after 7/7 and paris. Any time somewhere is attacked the media and politicians go in on how together and special these places are, as if to say to us that everything will be okay because there is good in the world. But we arent stupid, we know there is good everywhere. Id rather we focus on solving the problem.

[slotmachine]

That video of Tony Bellew doing the rounds on FB and the like now about this attack... in it he says "why didn't we deport him"


The guy was born in England FFS, loads of people agreeing with him and blaming the authorities and our soft government.... what is the world coming too, hindsight is a lovely thing but people are seriously uneducated.... you can't just lock up anyone and everyone who you might suspect! Sometimes suspicions are wrong!?


FFS

is that the video were he mentions that beacon of peace putin. yeah its embarrasing dumb shite from bellew. the c*nt loves the sound of is own voice.

[paulrazor]

is that the video were he mentions that beacon of peace putin. yeah its embarrasing dumb shite from bellew. the c*nt loves the sound of is own voice.

dunno what he said but some came out talking shite, like morrissey

[Zeb]

Something is starting to bother me. I appreciate we are still in a period of extreme sensitivity to what occured however Im concered that the medias focus on Manchesters response is ignoring a major issue.

I fully understand and support the sense of communal grief felt by Mancunians in the horror that occured in their city and a need to express it.  Their emergency services deserve the highest praise ( especially the NHS staff) as does the locals who offered up assistance...the vicitms and their familes are all in our hearts ahd thoughts ,however, the support and praise being given to a city region apears to leave out those actually directly afffected ..basically the 18,000 who attended the gig, who are most likely from many parts of Northern Britain ( as sadly the victims have shown)...Where is their comfort and support in the media?

I appreciate the stance is to show their city will not be cowed by terroism...but that is true of the whole of the UK.
Im concered in the post bomb trauma , Manchester will become the focus, whilst those who are directly affected are left to seek their own support.

I know, you know, those affected by Hillsborough where not just the vicitms it was everyone present. I just hope these pople dont feel marginilised by the medias and to be honest Manchester itself focusing on its' Spirit and Uniqueness'

I think a lot of it is that the murderer was also a Mancunian.

Just on the bereaved families. The disaster plan was obviously to get those who'd lost someone to the Etihad and provide them with the best professional support possible as identification and the post mortems are done. Armed police on the entrances just in case the media didn't understand 'no entry'. Some of the families have mentioned their appreciation for what the support staff are doing there. But the whole thing provides them with privacy away from the media circus in the town centre. And, to my mind, that seems like doing right by them at this moment in time. There's a large fund been done for helping both bereaved families and those injured, and that'll be sorted by the Red Cross ultimately. Victim Support is actively reaching out to anyone who was there on the night. I posted a number earlier on this thread if anyone wants it. If anyone needs or wants support or help, it is there. And it'll be national at the very least.

I'm not fussed by the media coverage and the shite going on either. I think every community of normal decent human beings would react like this. I've just been out in mine. Everyone is trying to be that bit extra special nice to each other. Cheetham Hill is amazingly diverse in who lives here and I noticed just all those little things which cross cultural borders - like mums, a Nigerian one and a Muslim (not sure where from) one diving to help a young ultraorthodox Jewish mum who had a baby in one arm and a suitcase in another. Like Alonso said, it's how it should be isn't it?