Author Topic: Elections in Europe  (Read 174829 times)

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #960 on: September 9, 2018, 09:27:22 pm »
What's most likely to happen? How strong are these coalitions? Is it going to be a giant 80% coalition, or will one of the parties (C?) join the other bloc?

It's all according to script. We'll get either a continued S+V+Mp, or an equally weak M+L+C+Kd. Or someone will break with the norm and side with Sd. Another possible scenario is S+M will rule with one or more from L, C and Kd.

Basically, no-one has a clue. :D

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #961 on: September 9, 2018, 09:33:02 pm »
In the same article it says that 20-30 people have travelled to ISIS, from that area. Believe me, it is known and the security services know about them too.

I believe the ”far right” is inaccurate to describe Sd. They were, but they have changed. Their voters come from S and M. 1/4 of the voters are union members.
Immigration is their thing, but they have also adopted other views. They are anti-EU, for example. Many hold those views in other countries, but over here it's Sd and V. So if you value anti-EU you vote for V (the communists) or Sd. By being anti, they get a lot of anti-votes. That's how they get bigger. And all other parties allow them to have this anti position. They all contribute to it.


These are some of the SD’s policies apparently: -

They say Sweden should only take asylum seekers who come from its neighbors -- Denmark, Norway and Finland -- and call for the introduction of tougher requirements for citizenship, including a language and culture test.

How nice. If you ran on that policy in the UK, you would be labelled the far right.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #962 on: September 9, 2018, 09:33:10 pm »
@rmilneNordic
 3/4 of results counted in Sweden:

Centre-left: 40.6%
Centre-right: 40.2%
Sweden Democrats 17.7% (3rd place)



@ChrChristensen
The left bloc hold a razor-thin lead over the center-right bloc: 40.6% vs. 40.2%. These last votes (and the overseas ballots) could prove to be important. But, the left bloc getting a government together will be very, very tough. #SwedenElection

« Last Edit: September 9, 2018, 09:35:48 pm by sms1986 »

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #963 on: September 9, 2018, 09:42:03 pm »
Being anti-EU and anti-immigration are inextricably linked.

Yes but here is something to remember - in this election we have a clear win for the EU friendly parties. Sd have grown, but they seem unlikely to become the second biggest party. So while we have seen the same kind of movement as in the rest of Europe, there shift has been quite small. Nothing unexpected.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #964 on: September 9, 2018, 09:50:31 pm »
Yes but here is something to remember - in this election we have a clear win for the EU friendly parties. Sd have grown, but they seem unlikely to become the second biggest party. So while we have seen the same kind of movement as in the rest of Europe, there shift has been quite small. Nothing unexpected.

You obviously know more about them than me but I don't think UKIP or the BNP moved any more to the left once they put a shirt and tie on.
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Offline sms1986

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #965 on: September 9, 2018, 09:51:43 pm »
From the Guardian -

Quote
Patrick Greenfield

Not long to go now. With just under 85% of votes counted, here’s how things stand:

Social Democrats - 28.2%

Moderates - 19.7%

Sweden Democrats - 17.7%

Centre Party - 8.6%

Left Party - 8.0%

Christian Democrats - 6.4%

Liberal Party - 5.5%

Green Party - 4.4%

Offline sms1986

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #966 on: September 9, 2018, 10:04:37 pm »
@ChrChristensen
90% of votes in, and it looks like YouGov, which had the Sweden Democrats leading at 25% in September were way off this time. All other polls had them between 17-20%, so accurate. And, SD not even close to 2nd place. #SwedenElection


Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #967 on: September 9, 2018, 10:10:21 pm »
You obviously know more about them than me but I don't think UKIP or the BNP moved any more to the left once they put a shirt and tie on.

I meant that we haven't seen a huge shift in a more anti-EU direction with this election. The anti immigration has already happened. All parties have made a shift in that direction since S+Mp decided to close the borders during the refugee crisis.

Sd have grown, but it is not remarkable. Their anti stance has actually been less successful than people feared. I predicted 20% for them, but some of my friends thought Sd would reach 25%. They have 17,7%.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #968 on: September 9, 2018, 10:13:12 pm »
BBC reporting on this is embarassing, even by their recent poor standards.

100% focus on a party that came third, with only 17% of the vote (and only 4% more than previously). Why not mention the 83% voting for left wing, centrist and centre-right parties? Why not mention the big increases for the left and centre parties?

They have a simple, long held narrative which they were going to push regardless of what actually happened.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #969 on: September 9, 2018, 10:16:48 pm »
(@ChrChristensen)
How tight is #SwedenElection? If numbers hold, seats in the Swedish Parliament:
Red/Green: 143
Center-Right: 143
Sweden Democrats: 63


@ChrChristensen
International Media on #SwedenElection
6 months ago: Earthquake as Far-Right Party Poised to Become Largest Party in Sweden!!!
1 month ago: Shock as Far-Right Party Poised to Become 2nd Largest Party in Sweden!!!
3 minutes ago: I wish we had paid attention to the other parties.

Christian Christensen Retweeted

@Sandvoss
Replying to @ChrChristensen
And a reminder not to shift the entire window of policy discussion to be dominated by the concerns of the roughly 20% of the population in most Western European countries who have always had a coherently far right worldview.

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #970 on: September 9, 2018, 10:21:53 pm »
I meant that we haven't seen a huge shift in a more anti-EU direction with this election. The anti immigration has already happened. All parties have made a shift in that direction since S+Mp decided to close the borders during the refugee crisis.

Yeah, that's a thing now unfortunately.

Sd have grown, but it is not remarkable. Their anti stance has actually been less successful than people feared. I predicted 20% for them, but some of my friends thought Sd would reach 25%. They have 17,7%.

Well that's good to hear.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #971 on: September 9, 2018, 10:21:56 pm »
BBC reporting on this is embarassing, even by their recent poor standards.

100% focus on a party that came third, with only 17% of the vote (and only 4% more than previously). Why not mention the 83% voting for left wing, centrist and centre-right parties? Why not mention the big increases for the left and centre parties?

They have a simple, long held narrative which they were going to push regardless of what actually happened.

Good point. The reason for the focus on Sd is simple. Currently it's 143-143 between left and right, with Sd at 63 places in the parliament. So it's a deadlock with Sd being the ones that can swing it one way or the other.

But I think what you highlighted is more interesting. Basically you have a 75% support for EU (excluding V and Sd) and Sd remain the 3rd biggest party. Their position is stronger, but so is V's. The shift here is voters moving away from the parties who have ruled, toward those (V and Sd) who haven't.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #972 on: September 9, 2018, 10:22:29 pm »
(@ChrChristensen)
How tight is #SwedenElection? If numbers hold, seats in the Swedish Parliament:
Red/Green: 143
Center-Right: 143
Sweden Democrats: 63


@ChrChristensen
International Media on #SwedenElection
6 months ago: Earthquake as Far-Right Party Poised to Become Largest Party in Sweden!!!
1 month ago: Shock as Far-Right Party Poised to Become 2nd Largest Party in Sweden!!!
3 minutes ago: I wish we had paid attention to the other parties.

Christian Christensen Retweeted

@Sandvoss
Replying to @ChrChristensen
And a reminder not to shift the entire window of policy discussion to be dominated by the concerns of the roughly 20% of the population in most Western European countries who have always had a coherently far right worldview.

I do agree with the final tweet to be fair. This is Europe, the far right is part of our nations’ make up.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #973 on: September 9, 2018, 10:34:35 pm »
@ChrChristensen
#SwedenElection coalition issues:
*Left-Green: Must include Left Party, so unlikely a right party would cross to join
*Center-Right: Liberal & Center parties say they won't join govt that relies on Sweden Democrat support
*Sweden Democrats: No party will form coalition with them

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #974 on: September 9, 2018, 10:37:56 pm »
This election is about three things.

1) How big will Sd become?
2) Will Mp get above 4%? (4% being the limit to make the parliament)
3) Will Kd get above 4%?

The outcome will be two blocks with ~40% and then Sd at 15-25%. And then it will be a nightmare to form an alliance to rule. Unless someone does what they have promised not to do, which is to work with Sd.

OK, so it's currently 40.6 vs 40.3 with the lefties leading. And then we have Sd at 17.7%. Both Kd (6.4) and Mp (4.4) are safe. No surprises. Everyone bar Mp (the greens) celebrates.

Will be entertaining to see how this works out in the end.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline sms1986

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #975 on: September 9, 2018, 11:03:24 pm »
@EuropeElects
Sweden, election results (5826/6004 election districts counted):

S-S&D: 28.3%
M-EPP: 19.8%
SD-ECR: 17.6%
C-ALDE: 8.6%
V-LEFT: 7.9%
KD-EPP: 6.4%
L-ALDE: 5.5%
MP-G/EFA: 4.4%

#valet2018 #val2018 #SwedenElection

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #976 on: September 9, 2018, 11:15:40 pm »
144-142 for the lefties. But this will require all votes to be counted before we know for sure what happens. Impossible to know who will rule after this. It looks as if Löven, the Prime Minister, may have to step down because the current government is too weak, so a new one needs to be formed. But people debate if that's true or not. Despite everyone celebrating, it's a real mess. Someone needs to look deep into the rules and try and make sense of it.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #977 on: September 9, 2018, 11:37:23 pm »
And Löven has just announced that he will remain as Prime Minister. He also declares the end of the block politics. Basically, he is trying to avoid ruling with V, while breaking up the block on the right. The game continues.


        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Moloskari

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #978 on: September 10, 2018, 12:00:21 am »
This is justvery frightening. Neonazis gaining influence and everyone else losing it. Politicians being what they are I’d bet that morals are sold as we speak and the sd are the real victors as far the real politics are cosidered, whoöich they aren’t. Well, at least there wasn’t a landslide for the right even though I’m not sur the ”moderate” right won’t strike a deal with the SD



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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #979 on: September 10, 2018, 01:54:11 am »
This is justvery frightening. Neonazis gaining influence and everyone else losing it. Politicians being what they are I’d bet that morals are sold as we speak and the sd are the real victors as far the real politics are cosidered, whoöich they aren’t. Well, at least there wasn’t a landslide for the right even though I’m not sur the ”moderate” right won’t strike a deal with the SD

Sorry but no. Just no. That statement is taking things way too far.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #980 on: September 10, 2018, 02:00:19 am »
These are some of the SD’s policies apparently: -

They say Sweden should only take asylum seekers who come from its neighbors -- Denmark, Norway and Finland -- and call for the introduction of tougher requirements for citizenship, including a language and culture test.

How nice. If you ran on that policy in the UK, you would be labelled the far right.

Incorrect regarding that position of theirs. That includes the entire Baltic Sea coastline and would therefore also render Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Germany at the very least. Iceland would also be eligible as a Nordic nation.

Also, knowing the Swedish language is bare minimum to even gain employment in this country unless when in rare cases you can do everything in English.

Having said that, general culture is way different here than in the UK so conditions aren't exactly comparable. It's much easier for a country that is home to the world language that most of its immigrants already speak to integrate people from abroad.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 02:11:01 am by Linudden »
Linudden.

Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #981 on: September 10, 2018, 06:41:45 am »
These are some of the SD’s policies apparently: -

They say Sweden should only take asylum seekers who come from its neighbors -- Denmark, Norway and Finland -- and call for the introduction of tougher requirements for citizenship, including a language and culture test.

How nice. If you ran on that policy in the UK, you would be labelled the far right.

If you run on ethno-nationalist style policies then expect to be labelled so. But this is a common theme though from the far right, deny they’re actually far right and mainstream their views, continually attempting to move the Overton window further right.

Offline Devon Red

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #982 on: September 10, 2018, 09:12:13 am »
I found this Newsnight documentary pretty enlightening on the background to the vote in Sweden; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCKxyDTlfHs

Stick with it, it's not the predictable narrative that it seems to be in the first few minutes.

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #983 on: September 10, 2018, 12:25:30 pm »
Lord Adonis summing up my thoughts on how the BBC has handled the Swedish election (and pretty much every EU member state election since the Brexit vote)

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1039030757338038272

The BBC News website is little better than a tabloid these days (and not just because of this issue). It's not befitting of the good reputation BBC News has.

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #984 on: September 10, 2018, 12:35:28 pm »
Lord Adonis summing up my thoughts on how the BBC has handled the Swedish election (and pretty much every EU member state election since the Brexit vote)

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1039030757338038272

The BBC News website is little better than a tabloid these days (and not just because of this issue). It's not befitting of the good reputation BBC News has.

I wonder how the BBC would describe the politics of a European country where the governing party had tacked so far to the right that it was now pursuing policies that belonged to a lunatic fringe only a few years ago, where the obsession with reducing immigration was leading it to sever all ties with its neighbours and where islamophobic and xenophobic rhetoric was commonplace amongst its MPs. And where the main opposition had veered to the left so much that it could no longer stick to the very moderate rules of the single market, and whose leadership was riven with anti-semitism. And that these two extremist parties now command 80% support of the electorate.

I imagine quite differently to how it is actually covering that hypothetical country.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #985 on: September 10, 2018, 04:14:32 pm »
I wonder how the BBC would describe the politics of a European country where the governing party had tacked so far to the right that it was now pursuing policies that belonged to a lunatic fringe only a few years ago, where the obsession with reducing immigration was leading it to sever all ties with its neighbours and where islamophobic and xenophobic rhetoric was commonplace amongst its MPs. And where the main opposition had veered to the left so much that it could no longer stick to the very moderate rules of the single market, and whose leadership was riven with anti-semitism. And that these two extremist parties now command 80% support of the electorate.

I imagine quite differently to how it is actually covering that hypothetical country.

I thought I knew which country you were thinking of until I saw the bold sentence. Now I don't have a clue.
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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #986 on: September 10, 2018, 10:35:10 pm »
Good thing Sweden didn't play Turkey a day before the election.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #987 on: September 11, 2018, 10:37:28 pm »
I found this Newsnight documentary pretty enlightening on the background to the vote in Sweden; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCKxyDTlfHs

Stick with it, it's not the predictable narrative that it seems to be in the first few minutes.

That's a good one. In particular from about 11 minutes in and to the end. You have the construction worker experiencing the competition from abroad, you have the second generation immigrant, you have the policeman who thinks he would be called a racist, maybe even a nazi, if he said the same things in a different place. Hardly the typical lunatics of the far right, but people who help explain the situation.

It's complex and it's a big mistake to say Sd voters are racists or far right. They have collected voters who disagree with the way things are going, people who see the bad sides of society, or the negative effects of globalism. They have become the party for people who are against immigration, the EU, those disappointed with crime (the shootings in Malmö, but also the lack of actual policemen, in particular in the countryside) etc.

The problem has built up over the past ~25 years and the best examples were the two referendums. The first one was a 52-47 win to join the EU. Most political parties were for, but almost half the voters against, so a clear mismatch between voters and politicians. Then the euro, which was a clear win 56-42 against, where the big parties were for joining. And they lost. Again a clear mismatch. People indicated that they disagreed with the way the big parties had chosen.

At this point people started to vote for someone else. It was the Pirate party and some smaller ones, but Sd became the big player. Reaction? You have every political party unite and say they don't want to talk to Sd, because you are a racist if you belong to Sd. I disagree with Sd, but I have a big problem with the mentality of the other parties. They are trying to head off in a direction people disagree with and if you are against, you are a racist or a nazi and your opinion shouldn't even be considered. 27 years ago, when a politician famously ignored a new party's success and left the tv studio as they entered, the reaction was that he, who left, was an idiot who didn't respect the voters. Do that to Sd today and that is almost like a badge of honor among the political elite. Unfortunately, that will cause more anger and result in an even stronger Sd and/or more extreme views. The shift was smaller than anticipated, but the communists and Sd grew in the election and the two largest parties lost voters. But we are likely to have a weak government and if we get the expected downturn in economy, this could soon become a lot worse. Politicians being out of touch with voters is never a good thing and they have really shot themselves in the foot here. And now they are reloading.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 10:42:06 pm by Gnurglan »

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #988 on: September 11, 2018, 10:44:50 pm »
That's a good one. In particular from about 11 minutes in and to the end. You have the construction worker experiencing the competition from abroad, you have the second generation immigrant, you have the policeman who thinks he would be called a racist, maybe even a nazi, if he said the same things in a different place. Hardly the typical lunatics of the far right.

It's complex and it's a big mistake to say Sd voters are racists or far right. They have collected voters who disagree with the way things are going, people who see the bad sides of society, or the negative effects of globalism. They have become the party for people who are against immigration, the EU, those disappointed with crime (the shootings in Malmö, but also the lack of actual policemen, in particular in the countryside) etc.

The problem has built up over the past ~25 years and the best examples were the two referendums. The first one was a 52-47 win to join the EU. Most political parties were for, but almost half the voters against, so a clear mismatch between voters and politicians. Then the euro, which was a clear win 56-42 against, where the big parties were for joining. And they lost. Again a clear mismatch. People indicated that they disagreed with the way the big parties had chosen.

At this point people started to vote for someone else. It was the Pirate party and some smaller ones, but Sd became the big player. Reaction? You have every political party unite and say they don't want to talk to Sd, because you are a racist if you belong to Sd. I disagree with Sd, but I have a big problem with the mentality of the other parties. They are trying to head off in a direction people disagree with and if you are against, you are a racist or a nazi and your opinion shouldn't even be considered. 27 years ago, when a politician famously ignored a new party's success and left the tv studio as they entered, the reaction was that he, who left, was an idiot who didn't respect the voters. Do that to Sd today and that is almost like a badge of honor among the political elite. Unfortunately, that will cause more anger and result in an even stronger Sd and/or more extreme views. The shift was smaller than anticipated, but the communists and Sd grew in the election and the two largest parties lost voters. But we are likely to have a weak government and if we get the expected downturn in economy, this could soon become a lot worse. Politicians being out of touch with voters is never a good thing and they have really shot themselves in the foot here. And now they are reloading.

Politicians in Britain are awful. They are really, really bad. They have fucked this country through their own incompetence, from austerity to Brexit. They are the root cause for the chaos in this country.

To make my views and disatisfaction known, next time round I will vote for UKIP. Or the far right.

I am not a racist though but I need to make politicians understand how wrong they are.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #989 on: September 11, 2018, 10:58:58 pm »
Politicians in Britain are awful. They are really, really bad. They have fucked this country through their own incompetence, from austerity to Brexit. They are the root cause for the chaos in this country.

To make my views and disatisfaction known, next time round I will vote for UKIP. Or the far right.

I am not a racist though but I need to make politicians understand how wrong they are.

Isn't that what happened with Brexit?


        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #990 on: September 11, 2018, 11:05:13 pm »
Isn't that what happened with Brexit?

Maybe. Do voters get a pass on that? Nope.

Also, that wasnt actually a vote for a far right party. There is no situation which makes it acceptable to vote for the far right.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #991 on: September 11, 2018, 11:55:24 pm »
Maybe. Do voters get a pass on that? Nope.

Also, that wasnt actually a vote for a far right party. There is no situation which makes it acceptable to vote for the far right.

I don't like the development, but I believe the reactions are the same whether we look at Brexit, Trump, Le Pen or Sd. It is people who react against the ’elite’. The reaction is so strong that people can make an idiot and wannabe dictator like Trump President. They don't care, as long as they get something else. I believe it is people who suffer from globalism who vote this way.

20 years ago Sd were seen as untouchables. They had 1% or so. The racists. I don't think they have many more racists today. What they have now is many more ’normal’ voters and they are the core of the party. The few racists probably believe they have a racist party with lots of like minded. The others believe they have a few racists within a strong party with normal political views. I very much doubt they see themselves as far right. 1/4 of them are union workers, typical social democratic voters.

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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #992 on: September 12, 2018, 12:05:16 am »
I don't like the development, but I believe the reactions are the same whether we look at Brexit, Trump, Le Pen or Sd. It is people who react against the ’elite’. The reaction is so strong that people can make an idiot and wannabe dictator like Trump President. They don't care, as long as they get something else. I believe it is people who suffer from globalism who vote this way.

20 years ago Sd were seen as untouchables. They had 1% or so. The racists. I don't think they have many more racists today. What they have now is many more ’normal’ voters and they are the core of the party. The few racists probably believe they have a racist party with lots of like minded. The others believe they have a few racists within a strong party with normal political views. I very much doubt they see themselves as far right. 1/4 of them are union workers, typical social democratic voters.

Maybe they were racists who just happened to vote for the social democrats. There are racists who probably voted for Labour in the UK.

It doesnt reflect well on you as an individual if you vote for the far right. I am sure there were loads of Trump supporters who didnt think they were racist (not that he is quite far right).

I see why they do it. But I dont understand nor do I care for their personal circumstances. If you voted for Trump or voted for the far right, you are pretty much a deplorable. Its that simple.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #993 on: September 12, 2018, 02:11:46 am »
Maybe they were racists who just happened to vote for the social democrats. There are racists who probably voted for Labour in the UK.

It doesnt reflect well on you as an individual if you vote for the far right. I am sure there were loads of Trump supporters who didnt think they were racist (not that he is quite far right).

I see why they do it. But I dont understand nor do I care for their personal circumstances. If you voted for Trump or voted for the far right, you are pretty much a deplorable. Its that simple.

How very liberal of you, it's no wonder people vote for UKIP, Brexit, Trump and whatever else. Politicians don't care and neither to their fellow man.

People need to stop living in a bubble and engage more with others, I vote Labour and voted remain and would do so again and again but there are many on the left that are driving people to vote in this way. It's such a shitty time to be alive.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 02:15:04 am by Kashinoda »
:D

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #994 on: September 12, 2018, 07:08:33 pm »
How very liberal of you, it's no wonder people vote for UKIP, Brexit, Trump and whatever else. Politicians don't care and neither to their fellow man.

People need to stop living in a bubble and engage more with others, I vote Labour and voted remain and would do so again and again but there are many on the left that are driving people to vote in this way. It's such a shitty time to be alive.

I'm sorry but how is anyone driving someone to vote for a far right group?
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #995 on: September 12, 2018, 07:14:47 pm »
I'm sorry but how is anyone driving someone to vote for a far right group?
By not engaging with their concerns, branding them racist and stupid all while providing no solutions to their issues.

These are far right groups but they're attracting in a larger disillusioned demographic, which is plain to see.
:D

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #996 on: September 12, 2018, 08:11:53 pm »
By not engaging with their concerns, branding them racist and stupid all while providing no solutions to their issues.

These are far right groups but they're attracting in a larger disillusioned demographic, which is plain to see.

Doesn't work for me though, ultimately it is your own choice who to vote for. If you don't like the options do something about it? If that something is to go vote for a far right party then in my estimation you're a right wing fascist c*nt. Pretty simple really.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #997 on: September 12, 2018, 08:49:37 pm »
By not engaging with their concerns, branding them racist and stupid all while providing no solutions to their issues.

These are far right groups but they're attracting in a larger disillusioned demographic, which is plain to see.

When everything fails, appeal to the racist in me and you will get my vote.

There is no excuse voting for the far right. The proper far right, not things like Brexit which is not far right.

If you vote for the far right, you are a c*nt.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 08:51:22 pm by a treeless whopper »

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #998 on: September 12, 2018, 08:52:00 pm »
By not engaging with their concerns, branding them racist and stupid all while providing no solutions to their issues.



And if their issues are based on a load of nonsense put out by the right in order to gain their support?
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017/18
« Reply #999 on: September 12, 2018, 11:30:34 pm »
When everything fails, appeal to the racist in me and you will get my vote.

There is no excuse voting for the far right.

I know some academics that completed an ethnographic study of the EDL.

Rife with former labour.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 11:32:19 pm by Johnnyboy1973 »
Where's this Yakimoto fella?