Topic: FT Man United 1 vs Liverpool 1 - (Milner p 27'; Ibrahimovic 84')

[Fiasco]

He regularly gives a masterclass in handling the media. He is engaging, funny and eloquent, but also honest, direct and not scared to say what we are all thinking. Other managers sound bitter or bad losers, but Klopp manages to get his point across whilst still seeming like a really good guy and very likeable - even friends of mine who support other clubs really like him.

Compare this to Mourinho or Guardiola (and often Wenger) who clearly can't handle the media pressure when pressed with questions, and we realise what an absolute gem of a manager we have - both off and on the field.

Too right. When Southampton beat us Klopp was humble to admit we should have lost 3-0. When Man United lose Mourinho does not even face the media, he send out Rui Faria to answer the questions. Or if he does speak he blames every one but himself as to why his team lost.

The difference between the two is clear.

[peterstone]

I may have missed it but I really don't think enough has been made in the media of Rooney dragging his studs all the way down Milner's shin.

I've not heard it mentioned.

It wasn't pleasant at all.

[Yevgeny]

Love Jurgen's toughness. Such a steely character, not intimidated by their bullshit yesterday at all. The kind of man you want leading your team into that rat's nest. Never felt we would lose that game, even with the players we had missing. Ref was appalling...at least one guaranteed red card (Rooney) that wasn't given, 3 dives by Martial (including one in the box) with nary a single yellow, and an uncalled offside for their goal, among other incidents. The standard of officiating in this league is poor but Utd always seem to benefit from it. Very annoying. Anyway, we have Jurgen and they don't.

[Crosby Nick]

I may have missed it but I really don't think enough has been made in the media of Rooney dragging his studs all the way down Milner's shin.

I've not heard it mentioned.

It wasn't pleasant at all.

Has anyone got a clip of it? Literally only seen one replay of it so have no idea if it was just late and clumsy or properly dirty.

[Realdidi]

I may have missed it but I really don't think enough has been made in the media of Rooney dragging his studs all the way down Milner's shin.

I've not heard it mentioned.

It wasn't pleasant at all.

It's amazing how biased towards United all the highlights are that things like that and the other possible red card offences were left out [emoji35]

[rob1966]

Has anyone got a clip of it? Literally only seen one replay of it so have no idea if it was just late and clumsy or properly dirty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEmTqVgkSyM

[GIPPO77]

How Pog was not sent off I do not know, I counted at least 4 occasions where he should have been booked.

[KiNki]

poor milner, imagine having 16 stone land on your ankle

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qEmTqVgkSyM&amp;showsearch=0&amp;rel=0&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/qEmTqVgkSyM&amp;showsearch=0&amp;rel=0&amp;fs=1</a>

[Crosby Nick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEmTqVgkSyM

I'm not convinced that's intentional, just slow and shit these days.

[S]

By the way, I can't remember a recent Liverpool manager getting involved in a fracas like Klopp did against Mourinho yesterday. I'm saying this as a positive point. It wasn't a meaningless gesture, he was standing up for our player. Rodgers, who I am a big fan of, used to frustrate me with his passiveness on the sidelines. Dalglish and Wenger had one brief exchange but I never felt like he had a "presence" during matches like Klopp does. Rafa did have such a presence but it wasn't of the confrontational type. I hate managers who start a scuffle at the slightest injustice, but having one who doesn't shy away from Mourinho and Old Trafford's reputation is refreshing.

[peterstone]

I'm not convinced that's intentional, just slow and shit these days.

You can still get sent off for a slow, shit tackle.

He didn't even get booked.

[John C]

I'm not convinced that's intentional, just slow and shit these days.

Ditto mate, but Jones took Firmino out by their goal once without anything given and we were penalised for a basic shoulder-charge.

[PaulF]

The referee enjoys a position of respect in rugby. In football they cower away from players, especially big names like Pogba. Think about how many times have you seen Rooney hurl expletives at the referee and think about how many times he's been booked for it...

If sneaking a blood capsule onto the pitch to feign an injury is a mark of respect.......

But, the referees won't get respect if they don't uphold their own, highlighted rules about players surrounding.

[Johns_Barn]

By the way, I can't remember a recent Liverpool manager getting involved in a fracas like Klopp did against Mourinho yesterday. I'm saying this as a positive point. It wasn't a meaningless gesture, he was standing up for our player. Rodgers, who I am a big fan of, used to frustrate me with his passiveness on the sidelines. Dalglish and Wenger had one brief exchange but I never felt like he had a "presence" during matches like Klopp does. Rafa did have such a presence but it wasn't of the confrontational type. I hate managers who start a scuffle at the slightest injustice, but having one who doesn't shy away from Mourinho and Old Trafford's reputation is refreshing.

Can I just say how much I LOVED jurgen's long ball trolling in the post match comments. Again none in the media will recall Moanin_hoe calling West Ham's tactics "19th century". Fuckin bells. I find the collective amnesia  amazing that someone whom they all seemed to finally see through, can have the same idiots eating out of his hand because his £HALF a BILLION+ team scraped 5wins against the league's cannon fodder and he answered someone's phone in a press conference.

[liversaint]

I'm not really one to go on about referees but Michael Oliver's officiating yesterday was a disgrace. It's not a stretch to say it cost us the game. I don't think decisions 'even themselves' out of the course of a season, that's the stupidest cliché in football. I do think that bigger teams get more favourable decisions, but what was on display yesterday from Oliver was nothing short of terrible.

I'm not just talking about the big decisions. Rooney should have been sent off without doubt, and maybe Oliver can be absolved of blame for their offside goal (which, by the way, was United's SEVENTH offside goal this season). Pogba doing a UFC move on Henderson seemingly was OK too. But it was the niggly, 50-50 decisions. There was no consistency. Lovren was booked for a clean tackle where he won the ball. Wijnaldum was booked for what I believe to be obstructing the play and not letting United get a fast break started. Soft, but fair enough. Or it would be had Oliver stuck to the rules and booked several United players for dissent and kicking the ball away. I lost count the amount of times one of our players would ease a player off the ball or simply win it back by being stronger only for Oliver to blow for a foul. When United's players would do something similar he suddenly had the attitude of 'letting the game flow'. Funny, that.

It was one of the worst refereeing performances I've seen. And there have been many at Old Trafford down the years. I thought our lads played very well, United had some good chances and on the balance of play a draw was probably fair. But had Oliver and his assistant had balls then Rooney and possibly Pogba would have been sent off and they don't get the equalizer in the fashion they did.

Onwards and upwards now to Swansea. We could do with putting 5 past them just to build some confidence and get the good vibes going after a relatively inauspicious start to 2017.

I don't very often comment on refs, but agree with this word for word.

[Billy The Kid]

As far as the current crop of referees go, I've (generally speaking) found Oliver to be one of the better ones

But yesterday he was very poor. Jose has a lot to thank him for

[Johns_Barn]

Seriously needs anger management.
He struts around like the GBP86m that he is but plays like an 18 year old that lacks positional discipline and tactical acumen. He so needs to grow up. At 23 and having played at the big clubs he has, you have got to wonder whether he has the football intelligence to justify his price tag. Personally and without being flippant, I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team at any price. He may go on to prove me wrong but I have my reservations.

I thought it interesting that the Spanish giants walked on.

[JackWard33]

As far as the current crop of referees go, I've (generally speaking) found Oliver to be one of the better ones

But yesterday he was very poor. Jose has a lot to thank him for

I'm obviously on an island with this but I thought he was fine. He gave us our share of free kicks, gave us our penalty (which is obivously a no brainer but refs have choked on those at old trafford in the past). The marginal offside for the goal isn't something he can ever see, the Rooney stamp is a 50/50 ball and he's obscured from the impact ... dunno just seem like people are making a fuss because their lad was half a yard offside quite a long time before the goal; he's way above average for a Premier league referee

[Johns_Barn]

What's the idea behind advertising his twatter hash tag?

well...you see...shirt sales means he was in effect a freebie...

 

[Rob Dylan]

Only just seen the highlights, you can tell how desperate Utd are with all their sly little fouls and their play acting. They're desperate to be as good as they were a few years ago, but they just never will be. Frustrated that we haven't been able to teach them a lesson this season,really hope we get the chance to do it in the League Cup, if we're at full strength.

[harryc]

I'm obviously on an island with this but I thought he was fine. He gave us our share of free kicks, gave us our penalty (which is obivously a no brainer but refs have choked on those at old trafford in the past). The marginal offside for the goal isn't something he can ever see, the Rooney stamp is a 50/50 ball and he's obscured from the impact ... dunno just seem like people are making a fuss because their lad was half a yard offside quite a long time before the goal; he's way above average for a Premier league referee

Yeah I thought the Henderson neck roll has been a bit overblown as well.     

[Johns_Barn]

I'm obviously on an island with this but I thought he was fine. He gave us our share of free kicks, gave us our penalty (which is obivously a no brainer but refs have choked on those at old trafford in the past). The marginal offside for the goal isn't something he can ever see, the Rooney stamp is a 50/50 ball and he's obscured from the impact ... dunno just seem like people are making a fuss because their lad was half a yard offside quite a long time before the goal; he's way above average for a Premier league referee

Yeah, Martial falling on his stomach three times for NOTHING without so much as a word in his ear...crackin ref....

[GIPPO77]

I'm obviously on an island with this but I thought he was fine. He gave us our share of free kicks, gave us our penalty (which is obivously a no brainer but refs have choked on those at old trafford in the past). The marginal offside for the goal isn't something he can ever see, the Rooney stamp is a 50/50 ball and he's obscured from the impact ... dunno just seem like people are making a fuss because their lad was half a yard offside quite a long time before the goal; he's way above average for a Premier league referee



You for real?

[peterstone]

I'm obviously on an island with this but I thought he was fine. He gave us our share of free kicks, gave us our penalty (which is obivously a no brainer but refs have choked on those at old trafford in the past). The marginal offside for the goal isn't something he can ever see, the Rooney stamp is a 50/50 ball and he's obscured from the impact ... dunno just seem like people are making a fuss because their lad was half a yard offside quite a long time before the goal; he's way above average for a Premier league referee

He was staring right at Pogba when he did his WWE move on Hendo and he chose to ignore it.

[scouse neapolitan]

Forgive me please if I repeat what I said yesterday....but I reckon that  it has to be said again..

I basically  feel that Manchester United. ( I give them the full name because  I reckon  calling the c**ts "Man. United". is a bit too familair like calling their centre-forward "Zlaton" or whatever his name is)... are awarded at least 10-12 undeserved points  a year.
For at least 25 years the tables have started with the Mancunian twats 15-17 points ahead of the rest  for a variety of reasons. These are the reasons.


1) Manc love-in.  For historical reasons there is great national sympathy towards them.

2) Referees are swayed by these people. The Manc men in ties sitting up in the stands  (we all know who they are) put an awful amount of "unseen" pressure on officials at matches at Old  Trafford.

3) Because of this pressure on the officials, they ( referee, linesmen etc.)  are unable to give important 2nd decisions! Note the word.  "2nd" decisions. They might give a penalty or an off-side against them but they'll NEVER give a second one. Referees might give a penalty or an off-side against Manchester United, but then they spend the rest of the match trying to make amends. and try to get the Mancs back in the game.  It's gone on for years. You get a blatent penalty against them and then the referee shits himself for what he's done, and frets for the rest of the game until he gets them back into the game.

4) If , on the other hand,  the Mancs' opponents happen to get a second (blatent) penalty, or a 2nd  50-50 decision , there's not a chance on this fucking planet that a referee  will give the decision against them. No chance, they're too worried about their careers and they know that the establishment and the MANC hierarchy up in the Prawn Sandwich seats will speak to their FIFA friends and make sure that they'll go no further in heir careers.

That is what we're up against.





3) Any referee, linesman, 4th offical is under so much pressure- not from their weak  crowd-, but from up in the stands . The Manc ties, their " establishment" who scour

[Black Bull Nova]

If sneaking a blood capsule onto the pitch to feign an injury is a mark of respect.......

But, the referees won't get respect if they don't uphold their own, highlighted rules about players surrounding.

Union

[JackWard33]

Yeah I thought the Henderson neck roll has been a bit overblown as well.     

Wasn't great was it but it's not a red.
The ref didn't change the result .... dunno people in here seem to be into it judging by the replies but blaming the ref for the result is the habit of losers to me

[Black Bull Nova]

I'm obviously on an island with this but I thought he was fine. He gave us our share of free kicks, gave us our penalty (which is obivously a no brainer but refs have choked on those at old trafford in the past). The marginal offside for the goal isn't something he can ever see, the Rooney stamp is a 50/50 ball and he's obscured from the impact ... dunno just seem like people are making a fuss because their lad was half a yard offside quite a long time before the goal; he's way above average for a Premier league referee

It was the manner in which he was eager to punish Liverpool players that was annoying, Lovren, Firmino, Wijnaldum.

You could have made a weak case for those bookings but that case would collapse if it was considered alongside what went unpunished for United. He fell for their play acting and the crowd reaction, that's weakness.

Don't think it changed the result but I did spend the rest of the game waiting for Lovren to get caught out and get red and I'm sure he did as well.

It just annoys me, especially given what Herrera has done this season and how much Mourinho goes on about unfairness......tosser.

[JackWard33]

Snip

They're 6th. They need to work on their corruption because they're obviously not very good at it

[JackWard33]

It was the manner in which he was eager to punish Liverpool players that was annoying, Lovren, Firmino, Wijnaldum.

You could have made a weak case for those bookings but that case would collapse if it was considered alongside what went unpunished for United. He fell for their play acting and the crowd reaction, that's weakness.

Don't think it changed the result but I did spend the rest of the game waiting for Lovren to get caught out and get red and I'm sure he did as well.

It just annoys me, especially given what Herrera has done this season and how much Mourinho goes on about unfairness......tosser.

Meh who cares really? It's all a bit small time isn't it ?? Keep them out for another 15 minutes or take our chances on the break and none of its relevant. People are making out were the victim of some huge conspiracy when it was our team that - sadly -  couldn't close out the match
 M

[peterstone]

Wasn't great was it but it's not a red.
The ref didn't change the result .... dunno people in here seem to be into it judging by the replies but blaming the ref for the result is the habit of losers to me

Didn't say it was a red but it was a foul. I'm not blaming the ref for the result but we'd have won if the linesman had called a blatant offside correctly.

Incidentally from the neck roll incident they got a fee kick in a dangerous position straight after that Mignolet did well to save. That poor piece of 'refereeing' led to it directly.

[JackWard33]

Didn't say it was a red but it was a foul. I'm not blaming the ref for the result but we'd have won if the linesman had called a blatant offside correctly.

Incidentally from the neck roll incident they got a fee kick in a dangerous position straight after that Mignolet did well to save. That poor piece of 'refereeing' led to it directly.

Shit happens - you have to deal with it.
We had a ton of opportunities to deal with the situation after the offside isn't given.

[Nessy76]

Meh who cares really? It's all a bit small time isn't it ?? Keep them out for another 15 minutes or take our chances on the break and none of its relevant. People are making out were the victim of some huge conspiracy when it was our team that - sadly -  couldn't close out the match
 M

Yes. The ref got a lot wrong, no question about it, but when you play away at Old Trafford that's just how it is. I'm still amazed he gave us a penalty. He had a bad game, it happens. Nothing to be gained by bleating about it, and no question about who was the better side out there. Even with a dodgy ref they couldn't win at home. If they'd scored first half and we'd got the pen in the 2nd, I think most of us would be more than happy with that result. A difficult point won, now we move on.

[scouse neapolitan]

Conspiracy then Jack Ward? That  what you're saying? Or maybe I didn't understand your cryptic reply.

I and many others (not just Liverpudlians) happen to believe that we're not on an even playing field with Manchester United. ie. They cheat , and they have TIE MEN up in the stands that help them to cheat and put pressure on the officials to cheat.......and the officials are shit-scared and we know what they do....................they CHEAT!

[peterstone]

Shit happens - you have to deal with it.
We had a ton of opportunities to deal with the situation after the offside isn't given.

Its difficult when you have to spend all game 'dealing' with rubbish officialdom.

Sooner or later one will bite you on the arse. We did well to not succumb until 84 mins

[DonkeyWan]

The Unites tactic of getting Fellaini to head against the woodwork and stick the rebound way is certainly an effective one. We did look a smaller side than them across the pitch which makes it hard to deal with their fairly rudimentary tactics.

They said the same thing about Barca. "Skill gnomes" they said "won't like it up 'em up" they said "try doing it in Stoke of  wet Tuesday night" they said.

Then you watched every PL side get absolutely rinsed by Barca.

[mrantarctica]

The problem is that money and commercial interests have far too big an impact on the game. The big names and big players can routinely throw expletives at officials with no repercussions, and get away with blatant fouls, because they are the big earners who bring big money to the premier league and the games. There would be a financial impact of all the big names were suspended. We have some big names, but a lot of our players are fairly low key under the radar types who are top players but don't come with all the hype and hashtags, and as a result when they commit the same offences, they get harsher penalties. It has to change.

[Robinred]

They're 6th. They need to work on their corruption because they're obviously not very good at it

I admire your attempts at objectivity, which I'm certain is genuine. And I also get the point you imply about adopting a victim mentality - it's potentially unhelpful and at its worst, corrosive.

But on this occasion I really think you're wrong.

The yellow cards shown to Liverpool players were in some cases puzzling, those NOT awarded to United players equally so. The most glaring example - cited many times - is Pogba's assault on Hendo - replays showing clearly that the referee was perfectly positioned to see it. I don't know what was said in commentary because when that pair do these games I watch with the sound off; but it was extremely dodgy. You could cite the "England captains get leniency not afforded others" stuff about Rooney's challenge on Milner. Maybe that explains it. But even Gary Neville (as I later discovered) Keith Hackett and Howard fucking Webb thought it was yellow/borderline red.

I watched the whole game again, as dispassionately as I could. I literally lost count of the snide "left one on him" challenges that Utd. players were guilty of that went unpunished. And not by any means the usual suspects. I have absolutely no doubt that it was part of Mourinho's instructions - sorry, "game plan".

Michael Oliver? I give him the benefit of doubt regarding downright corruption; but he was certainly weak, inconsistent and culpable.

[Black Bull Nova]

Meh who cares really? It's all a bit small time isn't it ?? Keep them out for another 15 minutes or take our chances on the break and none of its relevant. People are making out were the victim of some huge conspiracy when it was our team that - sadly -  couldn't close out the match
 M

Cheating just gets on my fucking nerves though, regardless of anything else, especially when the manager is complicit. Wasn't too bothered about the Rooney one but when Herrara pulled his stunt, I'm ashamed when any of our players do it, I'm getting old.

[Johns_Barn]

I've heard it all now...ex ref Dermott O'leary say's Pogba's Boston Crab wouldn't have been a red card as he didn't think it was violent.


Football is dead