Author Topic: Steven Gerrard  (Read 233504 times)

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,332
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1760 on: July 14, 2023, 10:41:59 am »
That logic is not used with a player like Carragher. Put Carragher in a Klopp team with Van Dijk, Matip, Gomez at his peak and Konate and he wouldn’t play half the games he played. He’s still talked up as a legend. Locals are blinded by local players.

If you've been in the Carragher thread on here lately, you would know that very few people on RAWK talk him up anymore. Most consider him a bitter turncoat licking Sky's bumhole.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Raaphael

  • A fucking embarrassment. Hot 4 Andrew Tate. Works out so beware wokies
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,516
  • Oh yeah? Well fuck you too Greta Gerwig
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1761 on: July 14, 2023, 10:56:38 am »
If you've been in the Carragher thread on here lately, you would know that very few people on RAWK talk him up anymore. Most consider him a bitter turncoat licking Sky's bumhole.

That’s because of him at Sky. As a player he is massively overrated in Liverpool history among many fans. He was a mediocre right back until he was about 26.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,728
  • The first five yards........
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1762 on: July 14, 2023, 11:06:48 am »
There’s already a video of him taking training going viral for the wrong reasons

The language barrier.

I think that's one of the main reasons he wants Henderson who is a fluent Arabic speaker.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,332
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1763 on: July 14, 2023, 11:12:22 am »
That’s because of him at Sky. As a player he is massively overrated in Liverpool history among many fans. He was a mediocre right back until he was about 26.

I think you'll find his overall career has been greatly reappraised now that we have had some genuinely elite defenders at the club for a number of year!

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,058
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1764 on: July 14, 2023, 11:45:29 am »
There’s already a video of him taking training going viral for the wrong reasons

It's not quite Tony Adams
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline markmywords

  • Was 2/10. Now 0.5/10. Must try much harder not to make people a little sick in their mouth.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,418
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1765 on: July 14, 2023, 11:45:48 am »
That logic is not used with a player like Carragher. Put Carragher in a Klopp team with Van Dijk, Matip, Gomez at his peak and Konate and he wouldn’t play half the games he played. He’s still talked up as a legend. Locals are blinded by local players.

You maybe blinded by your anti local bias, if you wanna blame Gerrard for not winning the title in 2009

Local lad Sammy Lee was a regular in a LFc team that won 4 titles and 2 european cups, but he isn't widely seen as a legend, in the feature 100 players that shook the kop, he came in at no.86, below glenn hysen.  There is no widespread local bias regarding legend status

Offline jillc

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,795
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1766 on: July 14, 2023, 11:50:04 am »
The language barrier.

I think that's one of the main reasons he wants Henderson who is a fluent Arabic speaker.

I smiled at that despite my cynical frame of mind. 😀
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline afc tukrish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends and undoing their nuts? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,805
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1767 on: July 14, 2023, 11:54:59 am »
'I reckon we'll win the League 24/25 and you can quote me on that.' -- El Tel...

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

  • Cut the music! Missed the 'Saka is shite!' memo.
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,849
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1768 on: July 14, 2023, 01:13:21 pm »
That’s because of him at Sky. As a player he is massively overrated in Liverpool history among many fans. He was a mediocre right back until he was about 26.

The majority of fans think that Carragher was a donkey as a player. Gerrard on the other hand was a Rolls-Royce. I don't know why you brought Carragher in this conversation.
Rick for the rikes, prick for the pricks

SLAVA
UKRAINI

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

  • Cut the music! Missed the 'Saka is shite!' memo.
  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,849
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1769 on: July 14, 2023, 01:14:37 pm »
The language barrier.

I think that's one of the main reasons he wants Henderson who is a fluent Arabic speaker.

I know they sound funny but that's a bit harsh on geordies.
Rick for the rikes, prick for the pricks

SLAVA
UKRAINI

Offline So… Howard Philips

  • Penile Toupé Extender. Notoriously work-shy, copper-bottomed pervert.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,229
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1770 on: July 14, 2023, 01:24:34 pm »
I know they sound funny but that's a bit harsh on geordies.

Did you just call Henderson a Geordie?

The ultimate insult to a Sunderland lad.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,728
  • The first five yards........
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1771 on: July 14, 2023, 01:27:47 pm »
Did you just call Henderson a Geordie?

The ultimate insult to a Sunderland lad.

Indeed, a Mackem.

From Mecca.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Raaphael

  • A fucking embarrassment. Hot 4 Andrew Tate. Works out so beware wokies
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,516
  • Oh yeah? Well fuck you too Greta Gerwig
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1772 on: July 14, 2023, 02:12:48 pm »
The majority of fans think that Carragher was a donkey as a player. Gerrard on the other hand was a Rolls-Royce. I don't know why you brought Carragher in this conversation.

I don’t think Carragher is viewed as a donkey. I didn’t say Gerrard wasn’t a Rolls Royce. If anything, I probably more questioned his abilities as a captain and I think his «loyalty» towards Liverpool is somewhat overrated.


Right now he is  trying to lure one of our players to another club. He has taken our analyst. Gerrard thinks about Gerrard, not Liverpool.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 02:14:48 pm by Raaphael »

Offline tubby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,716
  • Destroyed Cowboy
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1773 on: July 14, 2023, 02:15:40 pm »
Gerrard was a brilliant captain.  He dragged the team behind him on the pitch on multiple occasions and there have been a fair few stories about youngsters joining the club and being made to feel welcome by him.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,273
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1774 on: July 14, 2023, 02:18:12 pm »
I don’t think Carragher is viewed as a donkey. I didn’t say Gerrard wasn’t a Rolls Royce. If anything, I probably more questioned his abilities as a captain and I think his «loyalty» towards Liverpool is somewhat overrated.

Right now he is  trying to lure one of our players to another club. He has taken our analyst. Gerrard thinks about Gerrard, not Liverpool.
Strange position to take though, given you're promoting Hendo as a loyal captain legend despite angling for a big money move into semi-retirement yet negating Gerrard for talking to Chelsea in 2005.

I don't see how you can question Gerrard's loyalty as a captain but not Hendo's. Whose arsed about what Gerrard is up to now, he doesn't play for us and he's enjoying his retirement from serious work

Offline Raaphael

  • A fucking embarrassment. Hot 4 Andrew Tate. Works out so beware wokies
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,516
  • Oh yeah? Well fuck you too Greta Gerwig
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1775 on: July 14, 2023, 02:26:19 pm »
My claim was that Henderson is a bigger Liverpool legend than Gerrard. Has lifted every throphy for us. You don’t have to agree.

Some people claim Gerrard is Liverpool’s best player ever. I don’t. I think it’s Suarez.

Greatest? Probably overall Dalglish when it comes to aura, but Salah can come close.

Offline jillc

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,795
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1776 on: July 14, 2023, 04:10:58 pm »
I think you are all wrong, King Kenny was the best.  ;)
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline mikeb58

  • The Poet Laureate of the Hillsborough forum and indeed, now, the rest of the site! Allez, allez, allez......
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,085
  • kopite
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1777 on: July 14, 2023, 04:39:27 pm »


Whose arsed about what Gerrard is up to now, he doesn't play for us and he's enjoying his retirement from serious work

I love Stevie G, my all time Liverpool hero and always will be. I think a lot of people are missing your point here, he didn't leave us for his new role, he's still a legend in eyes, no doubt he'll return in legends games to a great reception from Klopp and the fans, and his tribute bench on 97 Ave is testament to his status within the club....the club don't dish them out lightly!


If others think different, fine, that's my personal take on Stevie.


Hillsborough...Our Greatest Victory (out now)

Offline oojason

  • The Official RAWK Audio Visual God. Founder Member of the Ricky Gervais' 'David Brad Fan Club'.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,422
  • The Awkward Squad
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1778 on: July 14, 2023, 05:21:19 pm »


Sad to see him choosing to be a poster boy a brutal despotic regime trying to sports wash their image.

Let olone this type of shit that Saudi / his club are pulling - in trying to associate that with us...



« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 10:34:25 pm by oojason »
.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline Bennett

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,969
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1779 on: July 14, 2023, 05:23:50 pm »
There’s already a video of him taking training going viral for the wrong reasons

Tony Adams vibes.

To be honest, he could mastermind his team to a 100% record without conceding a goal. It has zero relevance to any potential return he could make to European football. His managerial career is over.

Online reddebs

  • areddwarfis4lifenotjust4xmas
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,112
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1780 on: July 14, 2023, 06:14:07 pm »
I smiled at that despite my cynical frame of mind. 😀

Me too 😁

Offline liverbloke

  • Prototype RAWK Genius. Founder of stickysheets.com and prefers it solo. Gotta hand it to him, eh?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,388
  • i neither know nor care
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1781 on: July 15, 2023, 10:57:50 am »
anyone got a paintbrush they can lend me?




Quote from: Lee1-6Liv
Who would have thought liverblokes no draws idea would not be his worst idea of the weekend

Offline jillc

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,795
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1782 on: July 15, 2023, 11:03:02 am »
anyone got a paintbrush they can lend me?



Yes, feels awkward now.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline alonsoisared

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,900
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1783 on: July 15, 2023, 11:32:00 am »
Henderson is a bigger legend than Stevie.
You may be a very nice, very intelligent chap but I'm sorry to say that this and all of your resulting posts in this thread are just unbelievably shite.

Henderson is a legend, whatever happens with this transfer. Gerrard is on another level. Swap Gerrard 2001-2010 for prime Henderson and I can promise you we wouldn't have the trophies that we won. We'd probably have been so mediocre that Rafa would never have come, and the likes of Alonso, Torres and Suarez wouldn't have bothered signing for us either.

Your conclusion that he is given preferential treatment because he's a local is way, way off IMO. I actually think in Gerrard's, and Carragher's, case that it goes the other way and he gets unwarranted criticism because he's a local. He is held to a higher standard than anyone else and things are expected of him that never are to others. Particularly in that Hicks and Gillett era where people seemed to expect him to single handedly take them down. Players and staff from abroad tend to easily get welcomed as honorary scousers, Pepe Reina who it turns out is a massive fascist being one, without any real knowledge of who they are as human beings. They come in, say it's a dream move and if they play well will get a lovely song. All of them who've ever had a sniff at moving for better money or a supposed bigger club have ended up doing so- Torres, Suarez, Alonso, Mascherano. Gerrard stayed, fought and practically single handedly kept us competing.

Henderson has been a great captain and very different from Gerrard. He's nowhere near as good a player and has never really been one of our best players, but his attitude is second to none and no doubt between him and Milner they've set the standards behind the scenes for the last 5 or 10 years. Gerrard was a quieter character who lead by example but he still had control over the dressing room along with Carragher in the exact same way. The players respected Gerrard massively and any big time Charlie's wouldn't have lasted long.

Henderson is fortunate that Klopp has come in when he has and built a world class team and squad, something Gerrard never had the opportunity to play in. Rafa built a very good team in 08/09 but it was paper thin, without Torres we had the likes of Ngog and Voronin coming in, even on the wings we had very good players like Benayoun, Riera and Kuyt but realistically none of them would've gotten close to a United side that boasted Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up top. Rodgers managed to get one more great season out of Gerrard when he was already a few years past his prime and we got close thanks to the fantastic attack that we put together but again you put it head to head with City and Chelsea and the squad was nowhere near.

Saying Gerrard should have won a title is just absolute bollocks, he did a lot on his own but he couldn't do everything, no player could. May 25th 2005 is about as close as anyone gets to winning a trophy single handedly. Cardiff the following year is a pretty good example too and theres still plenty of try hards who call it the Momo Sissoko final. How anyone can look back at that era and hold it against Gerrard that we didn't win a league rather than, I don't know, the cowboy owners, Roy Hodgson, the absolute mountains of shite we signed in that time, the top players we did sign who couldn't wait to fuck off when more money arrived. Maybe even, god forbid, Rafa Benitez who had 5 years to do it, didn't, and ended up working for both Everton and Chelsea as well as taking a job in China. Does he get a fraction of the criticism?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 11:36:25 am by alonsoisared »

Offline oojason

  • The Official RAWK Audio Visual God. Founder Member of the Ricky Gervais' 'David Brad Fan Club'.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,422
  • The Awkward Squad
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1784 on: July 15, 2023, 12:54:11 pm »
I actually think in Gerrard's, and Carragher's, case that it goes the other way and he gets unwarranted criticism because he's a local. He is held to a higher standard than anyone else and things are expected of him that never are to others. Particularly in that Hicks and Gillett era where people seemed to expect him to single handedly take them down. Players and staff from abroad tend to easily get welcomed as honorary scousers, Pepe Reina who it turns out is a massive fascist being one, without any real knowledge of who they are as human beings. They come in, say it's a dream move and if they play well will get a lovely song. All of them who've ever had a sniff at moving for better money or a supposed bigger club have ended up doing so- Torres, Suarez, Alonso, Mascherano. Gerrard stayed, fought and practically single handedly kept us competing.

Absolute hyperbole. Nobody expected Gerrard "to single handedly take them [G&H] down". We did expect him and Carragher to speak up.

Instead we got silence... followed by an unbelievably weak and nonsensical attempt at justifying why he didn't, after the fact.

That Reina, did speak up at the time, along with Agger, Sami, Masch speaks volumes... and really only serves to highlight Gerrard's mistake in choosing to stay silent...


Gerrard and Carragher on why they stayed quiet during Gillet & Hicks ownership: www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264872.msg8515016#msg8515016 :-

“I totally understand why some of the fans were frustrated we didn’t speak out,” says Gerrard. “When I’m down with England I hear stories about what big players have said at their clubs, but when me and Jamie speak we’re worried people might say, ‘Does he think he’s bigger than Liverpool?’ So it was a horrible situation as I wanted to come out and use my status to help but I was terrified of it backfiring.

“Should I say something? Would it make a difference? Who are we to criticise our bosses? They were the questions I kept asking myself and at times they were on the tip of my tongue. But if I’d wanted to speak to the owners I couldn’t, they were never there. It was a mess.”

Carragher agrees: “Maybe me and Stevie should have come out when we had the power and said something, but we’re from here. We love the club and never like saying anything negative about it."



Quote
May 25th 2005 is about as close as anyone gets to winning a trophy single handedly.

"Single handedly winning a trophy" - or 'as close as anyone gets to it'? In winning the European Cup in 2005... absolute revisionist bollocks...

It is the whole journey you need to look at... Gerrard didn't play in a number of Euopean matches that season, and the whole squad deserve the credit for winning that trophy - not just one player "single handedly winning" it. Pongolle, Mellor, Biscan, Garcia, Scott Carson vs Juve, Nunez nullifying the Chelsea flank. Pelligrino coming in for Sami for 12 or so league matches so Sami could be rested for Europe. Smicer! The whole squad and the tactics and preparation of Rafa and his staff too all contributed.

Injuries also ravaged us that year - Gerrard included. Others came in and stepped up - notably Biscan in midfield. Before the spouting of any more revisionist bollocks - go give this a read and look up who played what in the European matches: www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=293988.msg17181973#msg17181973

Gerrard played really well in the 2nd half of that Final, for sure. No arguments there - yet we wouldn't have been near the Final if it weren't for the others listed above; their exploits and contributions. Vladi, Dudek, Traore, Carragher, all did well in the 2nd half of the Final too - as did everyone else in red.



If local lads do get more stick / held to a higher standard it is likely because we expect more from them. If you portray yourself as one of us. then act like it. If you are from here, born and raised, lived here, or simply understand the city, culture, club, values then... then you know what is expected - and that bullshit excuses and actions don't fly.

That so many people who come to Liverpool do get 'it' - both players and managers is fantastic. Yet can they really be held to the same high standards and expectations of players actually from here, born and raised here, who portray themselves as one of us. Of course not - not only is it an unfair comparison, it is also a false equivalency.

My opinion is that so far, Gerrard has gotten off lightly in going to Saudi to be a posterboy for this Saudi sportswashing project, and also in this Henderson transfer fiasco so far.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 02:35:41 pm by oojason »
.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline Coolie High

  • bury Regular. My opinions are facts, FYI. (whisper it but doesn't understand midfielders)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,422
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1785 on: July 15, 2023, 12:59:21 pm »
I agree the local lads get more stick.

Offline jillc

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,795
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1786 on: July 15, 2023, 01:01:16 pm »
I agree the local lads get more stick.

Not true, I think Gerrard has got of lightly here.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline alonsoisared

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,900
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1787 on: July 15, 2023, 03:35:20 pm »
Absolute hyperbole. Nobody expected Gerrard "to single handedly take them [G&H] down". We did expect him and Carragher to speak up.

Instead we got silence... followed by an unbelievably weak and nonsensical attempt at justifying why he didn't, after the fact.

That Reina, did speak up at the time, along with Agger, Sami, Masch speaks volumes... and really only serves to highlight Gerrard's mistake in choosing to stay silent...


Gerrard and Carragher on why they stayed quiet during Gillet & Hicks ownership: www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=264872.msg8515016#msg8515016 :-

“I totally understand why some of the fans were frustrated we didn’t speak out,” says Gerrard. “When I’m down with England I hear stories about what big players have said at their clubs, but when me and Jamie speak we’re worried people might say, ‘Does he think he’s bigger than Liverpool?’ So it was a horrible situation as I wanted to come out and use my status to help but I was terrified of it backfiring.

“Should I say something? Would it make a difference? Who are we to criticise our bosses? They were the questions I kept asking myself and at times they were on the tip of my tongue. But if I’d wanted to speak to the owners I couldn’t, they were never there. It was a mess.”

Carragher agrees: “Maybe me and Stevie should have come out when we had the power and said something, but we’re from here. We love the club and never like saying anything negative about it."



"Single handedly winning a trophy" - or 'as close as anyone gets to it'? In winning the European Cup in 2005... absolute revisionist bollocks...

It is the whole journey you need to look at... Gerrard didn't play in a number of Euopean matches that season, and the whole squad deserve the credit for winning that trophy - not just one player "single handedly winning" it. Pongolle, Mellor, Biscan, Garcia, Scott Carson vs Juve, Nunez nullifying the Chelsea flank. Pelligrino coming in for Sami for 12 or so league matches so Sami could be rested for Europe. Smicer! The whole squad and the tactics and preparation of Rafa and his staff too all contributed.

Injuries also ravaged us that year - Gerrard included. Others came in and stepped up - notably Biscan in midfield. Before the spouting of any more revisionist bollocks - go give this a read and look up who played what in the European matches: www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=293988.msg17181973#msg17181973

Gerrard played really well in the 2nd half of that Final, for sure. No arguments there - yet we wouldn't have been near the Final if it weren't for the others listed above; their exploits and contributions. Vladi, Dudek, Traore, Carragher, all did well in the 2nd half of the Final too - as did everyone else in red.



If local lads do get more stick / held to a higher standard it is likely because we expect more from them. If you portray yourself as one of us. then act like it. If you are from here, born and raised, lived here, or simply understand the city, culture, club, values then... then you know what is expected - and that bullshit excuses and actions don't fly.

That so many people who come to Liverpool do get 'it' - both players and managers is fantastic. Yet can they really be held to the same high standards and expectations of players actually from here, born and raised here, who portray themselves as one of us. Of course not - not only is it an unfair comparison, it is also a false equivalency.

My opinion is that so far, Gerrard has gotten off lightly in going to Saudi to be a posterboy for this Saudi sportswashing project, and also in this Henderson transfer fiasco so far.


That's an overall fair response. I was referring to the final itself- of course the whole squad, management team, even the fans can all be proud of the role they played in bringing that trophy home. But it rankles me to read someone casually throwing out that Gerrard should have delivered us a title in his playing career, as if it's all on him. I think we asked a huge amount of Gerrard as it was, he rescued us on countless occasions, and Istanbul was exhibit A. Without him maybe we stem the tide somewhat in the second half but I don't think there was any player in the world who could've done what he did in that game to win the trophy for Liverpool. I'm pretty sure the entire squad at the time would agree with that and feel somewhat indebted to Stevie. I know he came afterwards but you hear Peter Crouch as an example talking about this often- he has openly said that without Gerrard he wouldn't have an FA Cup to his name. He's said that the players always felt like if they were in trouble in a game they just had to give it to Gerrard and he'd sort it. That's obviously simplistic but how often was that true? He bailed us out time and time again. Most of the absolute best moments supporting Liverpool in that decade had him front and centre. Smicer, Biscan, Mellor, Pongolle, even Garcia who you named, yes absolutely deserve status as cult heroes for their part and we will always be grateful, but do any of them even get 20 appearances from the bench for any of our competitors at the time? What were their careers like before and after Liverpool?

Talking about players who come here and "get it" just proves my point I think. What do they get? I can't remember those players speaking up particularly. I just googled Hyypia for example and the only quotes I can find are him saying he hoped they could solve it behind the scenes and that would help the team have a successful season. With all due respect I don't think those comments coming out of Gerrard's or Carragher's mouths would have made the slightest bit of difference.

Perhaps they could have done more. It certainly felt at the time like the fans were battling on their own against the cowboys. But we expected so much from Gerrard, and seemingly still do, that he'll always be in the wrong in someone's eyes. He's a working class lad from a council estate who's lived his life from the age of about 14 in a complete footballing bubble, and we expect him to be absolutely clued up on football ownership issues, international politics, LGBTQ rights, and god knows what else. The lads who came here and "got it" don't have to pass any such tests. And in many cases it turns out have very differing political views to what Liverpool fans would hope.

Gerrard as a scouser "gets it" better than any player who has played for us in the last 20 years. He lived and breathed the club his whole life, he had the weight of the city on his shoulders, got a world of shit thrown at him after that League Cup final, decided to stay with us when guaranteed honours were at the table and we were on the way down. What qualifies those other players to "get it" more than him? What political party do they vote for in their home countries? What countries have they done punditry work in? Have they ever accepted a job purely for better money? For that matter, what about half of the rest of our club legends? How many of them vote Tory? How many have taken part in homophobic or sexist "banter" while employed by the club? (Souness has basically said this went on all the time, by the way). Does anyone actually give a fuck about any of that as long as they delivered on the pitch for our club?

We ask too much of football players in general but we definitely ask too much of Gerrard. His only responsibility to us was to give his heart and soul on the pitch and to give us his loyalty. He did that and then some. But it'll never be enough for some people. I've said it before but IMO it all goes back to the alleged split with Rafa and those who could never hear a bad word about him taking his side over Gerrard's.

Offline alonsoisared

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,900
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1788 on: July 15, 2023, 03:37:55 pm »
All that said, the point that Hendo is a bigger legend than Gerrard which I've seen on here and on social media remains the biggest crock of shite I've ever read.

Offline Pistolero

  • BELIEVE. My bad. This. Lol. Bless. Meh. Wow just wow. Hate on. The Ev. Phil.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,377
  • A serpent's tooth...
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1789 on: July 15, 2023, 04:07:23 pm »
My claim was that Henderson is a bigger Liverpool legend than Gerrard.

 ;D ;D...



.. ;D
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline mikeb58

  • The Poet Laureate of the Hillsborough forum and indeed, now, the rest of the site! Allez, allez, allez......
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,085
  • kopite
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1790 on: July 15, 2023, 04:15:11 pm »
All that said, the point that Hendo is a bigger legend than Gerrard which I've seen on here and on social media remains the biggest crock of shite I've ever read.

Absolutely...not even close in my opinion. Stevie was a one-off, won't see the likes of him again.

Some fans like to vent their anger over because they think he let Rafa down in some way.

Yet, Rafa went to manage 2 vile LFC hating clubs (with supporters to match) in Everton and Chelsea, then worse still a role in China, but nothing much is made of those jobs.

I've said it before, Gerrard is head and shoulders above anyone I've seen play at the club, and he'll remain the biggest legend as well in eyes.
Hillsborough...Our Greatest Victory (out now)

Offline I've been a good boy

  • "There are two ways of spreading light; to be the candle or the mirror that receives it." Loves a good set of open flaps. And a bowl of Coco Poops! No chance of getting a coffee in his house.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,259
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1791 on: July 15, 2023, 04:21:21 pm »
Absolute cesspool of a thread, ridiculous to see people downplaying Gerrard's achievements and immense talent just because he's gone to Saudi.

Online Kalito

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,307
  • ***JFT97***
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1792 on: July 15, 2023, 04:40:27 pm »
Absolutely...not even close in my opinion. Stevie was a one-off, won't see the likes of him again.

Some fans like to vent their anger over because they think he let Rafa down in some way.

Yet, Rafa went to manage 2 vile LFC hating clubs (with supporters to match) in Everton and Chelsea, then worse still a role in China, but nothing much is made of those jobs.

I've said it before, Gerrard is head and shoulders above anyone I've seen play at the club, and he'll remain the biggest legend as well in eyes.
Greatest player I've ever seen and he made his breakthrough just when I was able to properly rememeber watching the games.

Ask Thierry Henry what he thinks of Gerrard.......he's said that (paraphrasing) he's never known a single player in history that had consistently bailed his team out all on his ones for such a long period of time.

Zidane, Ronaldinho, R9, Messi, Cristiano etc etc had played with top players throughout their careers and won stuff but none of them hold a candle to Stevie G, IMHO.

Most inspirational and special player.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 04:48:23 pm by Kalito »
"I want to build a team that's invincible, so that they have to send a team from bloody Mars to beat us." - Mr Bill Shankly

"be careful of media, they can make you hate the oppressed and love the oppressors." - Malcolm X

The notion that an Occupier is defending itself is as absurd as the notion that the rapist is defending itself from the victim.

Online disgraced cake

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,133
  • Seis Veces
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1793 on: July 15, 2023, 04:46:11 pm »
All that said, the point that Hendo is a bigger legend than Gerrard which I've seen on here and on social media remains the biggest crock of shite I've ever read.

Correct, always found the shout a bit laughable really, because I'd heard it quite a bit before all this Saudi Arabia stuff kicked off. Not a bigger legend, not a better captain, obviously not a better player but no shame in that. Don't really see why they need to be compared in the first place but that's just my take.

Regardless of what happens he'll leave as a legend, someone who's defined the team and era as he was nearly cast off after a year here, then going onto be the most successful captain of the post Paisley years.

Some might stick to their guns and want nothing to do with either again, but the dust will eventually settle and unsavoury as it all is it won't change the legendary status of either player.

Absolute cesspool of a thread, ridiculous to see people downplaying Gerrard's achievements and immense talent just because he's gone to Saudi.

It's normal that the entire scenario has left left a sour taste for people, it has for me too, but it's disappointing to see people (even just a few) spout absolute nonsense about his playing days. The same thing happens on the Carragher thread all the time. Granted, I think he's a bellend but there's people who have called him outright shite for all those years he was in the side just because he talks rubbish on Sky  ;D Fucking crazy people.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 04:49:46 pm by disgraced cake »
Proud follower of the city's junior, and far more successful footballing side

Rome 1977
London 1978
Paris 1981
Rome 1984
Istanbul 2005
Madrid 2019

19 League Titles, 6 European Cups, 3 UEFA Cups, 8 FA Cups, 10 League Cups, 4 European Super Cups, World Champions 2019. We live the dream.

Offline oojason

  • The Official RAWK Audio Visual God. Founder Member of the Ricky Gervais' 'David Brad Fan Club'.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,422
  • The Awkward Squad
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1794 on: July 15, 2023, 05:25:01 pm »
That's an overall fair response. I was referring to the final itself- of course the whole squad, management team, even the fans can all be proud of the role they played in bringing that trophy home. But it rankles me to read someone casually throwing out that Gerrard should have delivered us a title in his playing career, as if it's all on him. I think we asked a huge amount of Gerrard as it was, he rescued us on countless occasions, and Istanbul was exhibit A. Without him maybe we stem the tide somewhat in the second half but I don't think there was any player in the world who could've done what he did in that game to win the trophy for Liverpool. I'm pretty sure the entire squad at the time would agree with that and feel somewhat indebted to Stevie. I know he came afterwards but you hear Peter Crouch as an example talking about this often- he has openly said that without Gerrard he wouldn't have an FA Cup to his name. He's said that the players always felt like if they were in trouble in a game they just had to give it to Gerrard and he'd sort it. That's obviously simplistic but how often was that true? He bailed us out time and time again. Most of the absolute best moments supporting Liverpool in that decade had him front and centre. Smicer, Biscan, Mellor, Pongolle, even Garcia who you named, yes absolutely deserve status as cult heroes for their part and we will always be grateful, but do any of them even get 20 appearances from the bench for any of our competitors at the time? What were their careers like before and after Liverpool?

Talking about players who come here and "get it" just proves my point I think. What do they get? I can't remember those players speaking up particularly. I just googled Hyypia for example and the only quotes I can find are him saying he hoped they could solve it behind the scenes and that would help the team have a successful season. With all due respect I don't think those comments coming out of Gerrard's or Carragher's mouths would have made the slightest bit of difference.

Perhaps they could have done more. It certainly felt at the time like the fans were battling on their own against the cowboys. But we expected so much from Gerrard, and seemingly still do, that he'll always be in the wrong in someone's eyes. He's a working class lad from a council estate who's lived his life from the age of about 14 in a complete footballing bubble, and we expect him to be absolutely clued up on football ownership issues, international politics, LGBTQ rights, and god knows what else. The lads who came here and "got it" don't have to pass any such tests. And in many cases it turns out have very differing political views to what Liverpool fans would hope.

Gerrard as a scouser "gets it" better than any player who has played for us in the last 20 years. He lived and breathed the club his whole life, he had the weight of the city on his shoulders, got a world of shit thrown at him after that League Cup final, decided to stay with us when guaranteed honours were at the table and we were on the way down. What qualifies those other players to "get it" more than him? What political party do they vote for in their home countries? What countries have they done punditry work in? Have they ever accepted a job purely for better money? For that matter, what about half of the rest of our club legends? How many of them vote Tory? How many have taken part in homophobic or sexist "banter" while employed by the club? (Souness has basically said this went on all the time, by the way). Does anyone actually give a fuck about any of that as long as they delivered on the pitch for our club?

We ask too much of football players in general but we definitely ask too much of Gerrard. His only responsibility to us was to give his heart and soul on the pitch and to give us his loyalty. He did that and then some. But it'll never be enough for some people. I've said it before but IMO it all goes back to the alleged split with Rafa and those who could never hear a bad word about him taking his side over Gerrard's.

Don't bother googling it - you'll be wasting your time (google in the way it constructs searches over the past 10 years) and also the club and other vested interests have done some scrubbing of articles from that time too. Read up on it on here or other forums from the time. You won't find much about Sami because what he said and did was at the early SOS meetings. And in press articles you're not likely to find on google. Same pretty much for Masch, Agger, and Reina.

Gerrard and Carragher are well aware of their failure to speak up vs the owners - as well as both aware that the excuses they came up with after is... lacking to the say the least.

Nobody is asking them to be clued up on everything - though you do them and fans a disservice inferring that they don't know right from wrong - or what they are rightly going to get stick for, and aren't.


We don't ask too much from our footballers - some may do, not all of us.

For instance some are not going to call anyone who thinks Momo had a great game in Cardiff in 2006 a "try hard" - as part of some sort of 'defence' of Gerrard.

Some are not going to state someone "single-handedly won us X trophy" - because X didn't; the last time I looked this was still a team/squad game - and not X+ 10 others. How derogatory is that.

Or claim "in that Hicks and Gillett era where people seemed to expect him to single handedly take them down" - which is utter revisionist bollocks and also a lousy swipe at fans who were protesting for the club at that time.

Or use Rafa as a scapegoat or excuse... because other may not have the same glowing opinion of a player as you do in... "I've said it before but IMO it all goes back to the alleged split with Rafa and those who could never hear a bad word about him taking his side over Gerrard's."

You don't have to put others down or attempt to divide others to praise or 'defend' the people you like.


My opinion is that so far, Gerrard has gotten off lightly in going to Saudi to be a posterboy for this Saudi sportswashing project, and also in this Henderson transfer fiasco so far.

Does this detract from my view on him as a person? Yes, it does.

Does it detract from my appreciation of everything he did on the pitch when he was playing for us? No - though it is soiled somewhat... To what degree... I don't know; early days and all that.


I'll leave it there.

.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline markmywords

  • Was 2/10. Now 0.5/10. Must try much harder not to make people a little sick in their mouth.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,418
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1795 on: July 15, 2023, 07:11:10 pm »


Good point, someone like mascherano is being held up as someone who gets liverpool, in comparison to Gerrard.

The same mascherano who refused to play for us (whilst under contract) in order to force us to sell him in a cut price deal.

The hoops lads like carra and Gerrard have to jump thru, compared to foreign lads

Offline Fromola

  • For the love of god please shut the fuck up. Lomola... “The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the King!...” Places stock in the wrong opinions. Miserable F*cker! Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,444
  • Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1796 on: July 15, 2023, 08:23:07 pm »
It's also ridiculously revisionist that Gerrard 'single-handedly' did anything and insulting to some of the great players he played alongside.

Houllier: Marcus Babbel, Sami Hyypia, Hamann, Michael Owen - all top drawer players under Houllier (particularly in the treble season). The impact of players like Gary Mac, Carragher, Henchoz, Barmby, Murphy, Heskey and Fowler in the treble season.

Rafa: Pepe Reina, Hyypia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano, Fernando Torres, Dirk Kuyt

13/14 (the only season we did anything post-Rafa and pre-Klopp): Henderson, Sterling, Coutinho, Luis Suarez, Daniel Sturridge
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Raaphael

  • A fucking embarrassment. Hot 4 Andrew Tate. Works out so beware wokies
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,516
  • Oh yeah? Well fuck you too Greta Gerwig
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1797 on: July 15, 2023, 08:45:52 pm »
A lot of Gerrard apologists in this thread. Great player, but to say locals hold him and other local players to higher standards and give them more stick? Not my impression. Sometimes I’ve had the impression it’d Gerrard FC and not Liverpool FC.

Gerrard to me is just «another» Liverpool player. I don’t have any more love for him than I had for John Barnes, Kevin Keegan, Luis Suarez, Bobby Firmino. Locals do.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2023, 08:49:14 pm by Raaphael »

Offline Dim Glas

  • Die Nullfünfer.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,647
  • Michael Sheen is the actual Prince of 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1798 on: July 15, 2023, 08:46:17 pm »
It's also ridiculously revisionist that Gerrard 'single-handedly' did anything and insulting to some of the great players he played alongside.

Houllier: Marcus Babbel, Sami Hyypia, Hamann, Michael Owen - all top drawer players under Houllier (particularly in the treble season). The impact of players like Gary Mac, Carragher, Henchoz, Barmby, Murphy, Heskey and Fowler in the treble season.

Rafa: Pepe Reina, Hyypia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano, Fernando Torres, Dirk Kuyt

13/14 (the only season we did anything post-Rafa and pre-Klopp): Henderson, Sterling, Coutinho, Luis Suarez, Daniel Sturridge

So true,it was the whole discourse that it was a one man team, and he played up to that a bit (Stevie m e ) (back at you auto correct) ), that always wound me up during his best seasons, and I don’t mind admitting it’s part of the fact, despite admiring and appreciating him as a player, he was never one of my favourites (and certainly not personality wise, like ever) . Of course he was great, and one of the best this club ever saw, but I always hated that the teams he was on that did win stuff, where always in his shadow, despute having some excellent players, who contributed massively.  That whole media line was trotted out, and was hugely insulting to coaches like Rafa and Ged and other players on those teams.

Offline afc tukrish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends and undoing their nuts? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,805
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #1799 on: July 15, 2023, 08:48:12 pm »
It's also ridiculously revisionist that Gerrard 'single-handedly' did anything and insulting to some of the great players he played alongside.


Rafa: Pepe Reina, Hyypia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano, Fernando Torres, Dirk Kuyt



You left off the King of Winding Mourinho Up, wouldn't have won without that Juve goal...
'I reckon we'll win the League 24/25 and you can quote me on that.' -- El Tel...