Topic: Jamie Carragher

[markmywords]

I don't get it how people can go from idolising him like we did around 2005, where he was holding our defence together at the time.  To now suddenly hating him.

He was always gobby and reckless as we saw with Nani tackle and he always clearly had a temper, so the spitting incident was never a big surprise.

But I don't have an issue with his opinions on the team at the moment.  He got criticised the other day for agreeing that Pickford should have got sent off.   

Might not agree with everything he says, but that probably goes for the same with every other person in the world.  We give opinions it's just everything he says gets heavily scrutinised.

I was never a huge fan of him as I didn't really like his aggressive character.  But to question his love for LFC is a bit far fetched.  We saw this with Souness, Owen and others.  They love the club, we might just not agree with everything they say. 

No need to say they hate us if that's the case.

Wise words

Carra is a legend for what he has done for LFC and always will be and it is good to see him do well, despite some of the mistakes he has made. I understand people are upset because Carra's words carry more weight, than what they would like, due to his legendary status, but we are just gonna have to live with that I guess, as that ain't changing anytime soon.

You can't compare his role to people like Jason McActeer who are club employees, Carra calls it how he sees it, which is fair enough.

[So… Howard Philips]

Wise words

Carra is a legend for what he has done for LFC and always will be and it is good to see him do well, despite some of the mistakes he has made. I understand people are upset because Carra's words carry more weight, than what they would like, due to his legendary status, but we are just gonna have to live with that I guess, as that ain't changing anytime soon.

You can't compare his role to people like Jason McActeer who are club employees, Carra calls it how he sees it, which is fair enough.

Not quite. More calls it to gain controversy for Sky.

I wouldn't confuse him as a player and him as a pundit but like the majority of pundits he talks a fair deal of hyperbole.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Carra calls it how he sees it, which is fair enough.

The fuck he does.

[Onward Liverpudlian]

Who hates carra? Certainly not me, very good player and important figure in Istanbul and the non-title winning wilderness years.

He's just not in that pantheon of greats like Kenny, Souey, Clemence, R.Kennedy, Rush, St John, Hunt, Keegan, Yeats and Barney Rubble! And I don't think he'd claim to be at that level either.

[Fromola]

He just can't shut his gob!


"As for the idiots on social media targeting Pickford or Richarlison, they are no more representative of Liverpool’s fanbase as those Evertonians who abused Wales’ Neil Taylor when he broke Seamus Coleman’s leg during an international in 2017, or Heung-Min Son after Andre Gomes suffered a year ago".

Says the prick who was about to let his mates physically assault Lucas Neill because he broke his leg.

[El Lobo]

Who hates carra? Certainly not me, very good player and important figure in Istanbul and the non-title winning wilderness years.

He's just not in that pantheon of greats like Kenny, Souey, Clemence, R.Kennedy, Rush, St John, Hunt, Keegan, Yeats and Barney Rubble! And I don't think he'd claim to be at that level either.

I do 

[alonsoisared]

He's a twat. Blue who just happened to play for us.

Fuck him.

 

I love this forum but it can't half be weird sometimes. Gerrard and Carragher both often get spoken of in these kind of terms in these threads. Carragher lived and breathed this club his whole career, maybe he made mistakes and errors of judgement along the way but there's no doubt the club's wellbeing was always at heart. Don't think his whole playing career was an elaborate attempt at ensuring he'd have a good punditry career off the back of it on account of playing for Liverpool. It's always the ones who cared for the club most who get targeted with stuff like this. Bit part bang average players who never won trophies for us are spoken of like kings in comparison.

[RJH]

Says the prick who was about to let his mates physically assault Lucas Neill because he broke his leg.

And almost punched Arbeloa because he got pissed off.

And spat out of his car because he got pissed off.

And climbed into the stands to confront some fans because he got pissed off.

And threw coins into a crowd because he got pissed off.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I don't hate Carragher, I respect his career and what he's contributed, but I don't particularly like him either. Multiple things can be true at once.

For instance, I had much more adoration and love for Gerrard before the flirtation with Chelsea post Istanbul, and since then it's never been the same. I don't hate him, I still like him overall but it's not the same as it was before.

[Red Beret]

I don't get it how people can go from idolising him like we did around 2005, where he was holding our defence together at the time.  To now suddenly hating him.

Because he's behaving like a complete pr!ck?  You say he loves the club, but he's spent the best part of a decade picking over its bones for his own ends. 

It's funny how the world turns.  We vilified Torres and Owen for putting themselves first, but now they look back and probably remember their time spent with us most fondly.  Conversely, we idolised the loyalty of someone like Carragher, but in hindsight he was never going to be good enough for anyone else.  By today's standards he's barely a top six player.

[OOS]

Good post.

[Samie]

I said this the other day I think but evrey player who played a big part of our success over the past 3 years is  and will be a bigger legend than Carra at the club. 

This group of lads won us the league title after 30 years, our 6th European Cup, another Super Cup and for the first time World Club Champions as well.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Because he's behaving like a complete pr!ck?  You say he loves the club, but he's spent the best part of a decade picking over its bones for his own ends. 

It's funny how the world turns.  We vilified Torres and Owen for putting themselves first, but now they look back and probably remember their time spent with us most fondly.  Conversely, we idolised the loyalty of someone like Carragher, but in hindsight he was never going to be good enough for anyone else.  By today's standards he's barely a top six player.

Yeah, he was shit. Just the 500+ appearances for us and 38 England caps, retiring when he was still in contention for a place. The fact he makes an attempt at impartiality instead of being the Liverpool version of Micah Richards should be enough to make him persona non grata.

[Chakan]

Yeah, he was shit. Just the 500+ appearances for us and 38 England caps, retiring when he was still in contention for a place. The fact he makes an attempt at impartiality instead of being the Liverpool version of Micah Richards should be enough to make him persona non grata.

It's a fucking piss poor attempt at being impartial.

[Red Beret]

Yeah, he was shit. Just the 500+ appearances for us and 38 England caps, retiring when he was still in contention for a place. The fact he makes an attempt at impartiality instead of being the Liverpool version of Micah Richards should be enough to make him persona non grata.

Did I say he was shit?  No.  I said Liverpool was the best he could have played for.  I certainly don't remember any clubs sniffing around him in the same way Gerrard was courted.  If he were around now he'd be playing his trade with Leeds or Leicester.

I seem to recall Mat Le Tissier having well over 400 appearances for Southampton so I don't know what your point is there either.

And being impartial is about treating everyone equally, not piling on with needless criticism because you don't want to come across as biased.  Souness is more impartial.

[Sheer Magnetism]

I mean, they were regularly showing footage last year of Carra cheering us on behind the scenes during games. But he can't do that in front of the cameras, or spend all his time saying how great we are.

[Red Beret]

I mean, they were regularly showing footage last year of Carra cheering us on behind the scenes during games. But he can't do that in front of the cameras, or spend all his time saying how great we are.

You can if it's true though.  And last year we were imperious. Who gives a shit if rivals are sick of hearing it, it's not our fault it was the truth.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Did I say he was shit?  No.  I said Liverpool was the best he could have played for.  I certainly don't remember any clubs sniffing around him in the same way Gerrard was courted.  If he were around now he'd be playing his trade with Leeds or Leicester.

I seem to recall Mat Le Tissier having well over 400 appearances for Southampton so I don't know what your point is there either.

And being impartial is about treating everyone equally, not piling on with needless criticism because you don't want to come across as biased.  Souness is more impartial.

Well, "needless' is largely a subjective term. I doubt you'd be framing it as needless I'd it was directed against, for instance, the manc teams. By the way, remind me: how much did Southampton win when Le Tissier was there? How many champions leagues did they qualify for?

[Red Beret]

Well, "needless' is largely a subjective term. I doubt you'd be framing it as needless I'd it was directed against, for instance, the manc teams. By the way, remind me: how much did Southampton win when Le Tissier was there? How many champions leagues did they qualify for?

"Needless": something not necessary because avoidable.

I'd say your definition of needless as being subjective is, well, subjective.

And how many league titles did we win with Carragher, the 5th choice England defender, as the lynchpin of our defence?  As a senior player from, say, 2003 onwards, how does Carragher's trophy haul stack up?  Longevity doesn't make you good. 

[Sheer Magnetism]

"Needless": something not necessary because avoidable.

I'd say your definition of needless as being subjective is, well, subjective.

And how many league titles did we win with Carragher, the 5th choice England defender, as the lynchpin of our defence?  As a senior player from, say, 2003 onwards, how does Carragher's trophy haul stack up?  Longevity doesn't make you good.

The same number as we did with Gerrard as the lynchpin of our midfield, and Fowler as the lynchpin of our attack. Both he and Stevie won everything else of course, but don't let that stop you embarrassing yourself by pretending the teams that racked up 86 points and got to two Champions League finals were of a similar standard to the Southampton team that spent the 90s fending off relegation.

[Dim Glas]

I don't hate Carragher, I respect his career and what he's contributed, but I don't particularly like him either. Multiple things can be true at once.

For instance, I had much more adoration and love for Gerrard before the flirtation with Chelsea post Istanbul, and since then it's never been the same. I don't hate him, I still like him overall but it's not the same as it was before.

basically this.

I don’t hate him, no time for hate, exept for those who really are hateful (hi Donald Trump!).  But I went totally off him after all the Rafa stuff anyway, this is nothing new, there is just something rather xenophobic about him, and I have zero time for that.

Don’t get to hear his punditry much thankfully, but he is just really irritating in the media, see enough of that on twitter and here etc. Him and his bessie mate Neville get far too much air-time. Although he is now cropping up over here on Champions League coverage, which is a shame!

[Hazell]

Carragher's always been an odd one for me. A great servant and part of the best squad I'd seen for us until Klopp arrived and he gave us some memorable moments, not least in Istanbul but if pushed to name my all time LFC team, I can think of numerous defenders I'd have ahead of him. I'd say he definitely made the most of what he had when he was here.

But the off field stuff about him when he was a player certainly doesn't paint him in a good light.

As for him being in the media now, once you do that, you're kind of fair game I suppose and it's only natural people aren't going to like everything he says and are going to call him out for it.

[Fromola]

I don't get it how people can go from idolising him like we did around 2005, where he was holding our defence together at the time.  To now suddenly hating him.

Wasn't Owen idolised in 2001?

Yes he'll always be remembered fondly for that period around 2005 but he did overstay his welcome significantly as a player and is and will continue to be a complete arsehole as a pundit on Sky. That someone so limited (bar a couple of seasons) played over 500 league games goes someway to explain how we went 30 years without winning it in that time.

Lawrenson was the same, great defender and then acted a prick to the club as a pundit but Lawrenson wasn't setting the agenda on Sky. That comment about Alisson being like having Mignolet in goal at the start of the season was the kind of utter nonsense he comes out with to stir shit.

He didn't hold the defence together either, Hyypia did. Carra was lost without him when he went.

[Red Beret]

The same number as we did with Gerrard as the lynchpin of our midfield, and Fowler as the lynchpin of our attack. Both he and Stevie won everything else of course, but don't let that stop you embarrassing yourself by pretending the teams that racked up 86 points and got to two Champions League finals were of a similar standard to the Southampton team that spent the 90s fending off relegation.

Which only illustrates my point - longevity doesn't make you good.

Carra was decent, and I'm not trying to rewrite history about his contribution to LFC.  But unlike Gerrard, who could have had his pick of clubs but chose to stay with us, Carra stuck around because he was never going to do better.

Maybe we might have won more with a different defender back there?  I mean, it was pretty stark how we stepped up a level when we broke the bank on a world class keeper and defender.

In any case, I've said my piece.  He's happy to pull the jersey on and grin for the camera when we do well, but he's one of the first to act like an arse at the slightest mishap.  He's like a lot of ex-red pundits - not as smart as he thinks he is.

[red_Mark1980]

Carra retired in 2013. He's on record saying he knew he was done.

Who's to say if he'd still been around (not starting every game) the following season it would have gone as it did.

It's more than a little disingenuous to compare a player who retired in 2013 to a player we signed about five years later.

[Coolie High]

Did I say he was shit?  No.  I said Liverpool was the best he could have played for.  I certainly don't remember any clubs sniffing around him in the same way Gerrard was courted.  If he were around now he'd be playing his trade with Leeds or Leicester.

I seem to recall Mat Le Tissier having well over 400 appearances for Southampton so I don't know what your point is there either.

And being impartial is about treating everyone equally, not piling on with needless criticism because you don't want to come across as biased.  Souness is more impartial.

It’s laughable to say this about a player who not only won CL with us but if I recall was in the team of the tournament. Also a player that was with us during one title challenge, won a league cup Fa Cup UEFA Cup, yet we are the only top team he could have played for? Can’t be serious, Carra was a player with limitations but he was close to a top class cb, he could have played for a number of teams, especially in an era where many favoured low block defences.

[MacKon]

I can't believe some of the posts here. You guys hate a player who played 700+ games for us, won us numerous trophies, spent his entire career at LFC always gave his best. You hate him because he didn't say Pickford is a prick. Wow.

[Dim Glas]

I can't believe some of the posts here. You guys hate a player who played 700+ games for us, won us numerous trophies, spent his entire career at LFC always gave his best. You hate him because he didn't say Pickford is a prick. Wow.

No idea who said they ‘hated him’, but that seems to be the only thing you ran with, well done! 

There is a lot of responses here, many giving very valid reasons for not been impressed with him, or explaining what it is that he says that isn’t really conducive to what a good pundit should be doing, and they did it without once using the word hate. 

And you know what - I get the feeling there is lot more to it than one comment about Pickford, but of course - you knew that.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I said this the other day I think but evrey player who played a big part of our success over the past 3 years is  and will be a bigger legend than Carra at the club. 

This group of lads won us the league title after 30 years, our 6th European Cup, another Super Cup and for the first time World Club Champions as well.

Divock Origi is already a bigger legend than him.

[Fordy]

Divock Origi is already a bigger legend than him.

So is Andy Lonergan

[Red Beret]

It’s laughable to say this about a player who not only won CL with us but if I recall was in the team of the tournament. Also a player that was with us during one title challenge, won a league cup Fa Cup UEFA Cup, yet we are the only top team he could have played for? Can’t be serious, Carra was a player with limitations but he was close to a top class cb, he could have played for a number of teams, especially in an era where many favoured low block defences.

How does any of this disagree with the post I made?  Maybe I don't remember the clubs who showed an interest in signing him when he was at his peak?

[Fromola]

It’s laughable to say this about a player who not only won CL with us but if I recall was in the team of the tournament. Also a player that was with us during one title challenge, won a league cup Fa Cup UEFA Cup, yet we are the only top team he could have played for? Can’t be serious, Carra was a player with limitations but he was close to a top class cb, he could have played for a number of teams, especially in an era where many favoured low block defences.

Not without taking a big step down.

He wasn't someone who Wenger would have ever signed. If we look at Mourinho's Chelsea they already had Terry, Carvalho and Gallas and United had Ferdinand and Vidic.  Mourinho wanted Gerrard. Given it was very much 'the big 4' when Carra was at his peak and putting in consistently high quality performances (Rafa's first few seasons) where was he going? Moyes's Everton? Allardyce's Bolton? Stuart Pearce's Man City?

Can't remember where he said it but there was an interview he gave (might have been in reference to Owen) where he said he never had his loyalty tested because a team like Real Madrid never came in for him which was a fair and honest appraisal.

[the 92A]

Years ago I heard Philly kicking off on Benitez on our coach, didn't sit well for me at the time, as I was a big Benitez fan but disagree with Carragher on his views on Benitez or Pickford but some of the posts on here are well over the top. Carragher never gave less than 100% every time he pulled on a shirt and ironically was very effective in Benitez's teams and rewriting things because you don't agree with him doesn't seem right. Every time people need someone to do something in North Liverpoool/Sefton Carragher helps out if he can, he's done it for years, been to loads of things where he's helped out for no publicity, when my then little lads judo club opens 20 odd years ago, Carragher is there having photos with all the kids giving his time helps out loads you don't hear about, he's always helped out if he could. Just recently we were raising money for cancer treatment for a friends daughter, who's the first we go to, and Jamie is on the phone to her Mum explaining he can't make event as he's working commentating on Champions league final but offering support of his foundation. I don't get too stary eyed about footballers, disagree with his views but don't rewrite history, great servant to Liverpool.

[MD1990]

He said he would love to see Mourinho win again .

What a strange opinion he has at times

[Pistolero]

Years ago I heard Philly kicking off on Benitez on our coach, didn't sit well for me at the time, as I was a big Benitez fan but disagree with Carragher on his views on Benitez or Pickford but some of the posts on here are well over the top. Carragher never gave less than 100% every time he pulled on a shirt and ironically was very effective in Benitez's teams and rewriting things because you don't agree with him doesn't seem right. Every time people need someone to do something in North Liverpoool/Sefton Carragher helps out if he can, he's done it for years, been to loads of things where he's helped out for no publicity, when my then little lads judo club opens 20 odd years ago, Carragher is there having photos with all the kids giving his time helps out loads you don't hear about, he's always helped out if he could. Just recently we were raising money for cancer treatment for a friends daughter, who's the first we go to, and Jamie is on the phone to her Mum explaining he can't make event as he's working commentating on Champions league final but offering support of his foundation. I don't get too stary eyed about footballers, disagree with his views but don't rewrite history, great servant to Liverpool.

Agreed....he's a wind up merchant and does my head in at times, but a boss lad at heart and a proud Scouser who has always walked the walk in North Liverpool with his support for The Brunny and other community / youth groups and organisations - he's opinionated and (clearly) rubs some people up the wrong way but you'd think you were on Red Cafe at times on here such is the level of character assassination and bile being thrown at him....

[aw1991]

Years ago I heard Philly kicking off on Benitez on our coach, didn't sit well for me at the time, as I was a big Benitez fan but disagree with Carragher on his views on Benitez or Pickford but some of the posts on here are well over the top. Carragher never gave less than 100% every time he pulled on a shirt and ironically was very effective in Benitez's teams and rewriting things because you don't agree with him doesn't seem right. Every time people need someone to do something in North Liverpoool/Sefton Carragher helps out if he can, he's done it for years, been to loads of things where he's helped out for no publicity, when my then little lads judo club opens 20 odd years ago, Carragher is there having photos with all the kids giving his time helps out loads you don't hear about, he's always helped out if he could. Just recently we were raising money for cancer treatment for a friends daughter, who's the first we go to, and Jamie is on the phone to her Mum explaining he can't make event as he's working commentating on Champions league final but offering support of his foundation. I don't get too stary eyed about footballers, disagree with his views but don't rewrite history, great servant to Liverpool.

Pretty much. In the dark times that were the 90's and 00's he was one of the guys that made up proud. Can't stand him as a commentator, but in general I don't think he "did enough" to warrant not being considered a legend.

Similar feelings about Suarez. Don't like the person, but can't deny his legendary status.

[Doc Red]

Not quite. More calls it to gain controversy for Sky.

I wouldn't confuse him as a player and him as a pundit but like the majority of pundits he talks a fair deal of hyperbole.

He mentioned it in an interview earlier this year (can't remember the name, but was by a former solider, I think. From Liverpool) that he sometimes purposely said things to get a rise from his colleagues and get some traction from the viewers.

Always been confrontational and direct, but now he's doing it for a different agenda rather than for the sake of winning, and I think that's what rubs Liverpool supporters the wrong way. Push comes to shove, he'll throw the club or players under the bus if it gets him more eyeballs and attention.

[Fromola]

He mentioned it in an interview earlier this year (can't remember the name, but was by a former solider, I think. From Liverpool) that he sometimes purposely said things to get a rise from his colleagues and get some traction from the viewers.

Always been confrontational and direct, but now he's doing it for a different agenda rather than for the sake of winning, and I think that's what rubs Liverpool supporters the wrong way. Push comes to shove, he'll throw the club or players under the bus if it gets him more eyeballs and attention.

And that's where he loses goodwill and respect from fans.

I don't expect him to be as one eyed as Thommo always was on Sky, but he's a pain to the club and Klopp seems to have run out of patience with the latest nonsense last week.

It says a lot when Gary Neville is fairer to us and Souness seems to care about the club a lot more. As I said it was similar with Lawrenson who went down a lot in Liverpool fans estimations with how he was as a pundit when he was more on telly and he was a far better defender for Liverpool than Carragher was. Hansen never did even though he wasn't afraid to call it as he saw it because he was always fair and actually spoke sense, whereas they've come over like they have an axe to grind with the club.

He wasn't always the perfect professional or character either as player for us by any means. He's always had that snide/dark side to him; even though we can still recognise the good he achieved as a player and the positive charity work he's always been well renowned for. he's a complicated character.

[MD1990]

Notice on sky when he cant get his word in sometimes he gets in a huff.
Horrible trait to have when he cant listen to others with a different opinion.

Comes across to me as a narrow minded individual

[Indomitable_Carp]

Years ago I heard Philly kicking off on Benitez on our coach, didn't sit well for me at the time, as I was a big Benitez fan but disagree with Carragher on his views on Benitez or Pickford but some of the posts on here are well over the top. Carragher never gave less than 100% every time he pulled on a shirt and ironically was very effective in Benitez's teams and rewriting things because you don't agree with him doesn't seem right. Every time people need someone to do something in North Liverpoool/Sefton Carragher helps out if he can, he's done it for years, been to loads of things where he's helped out for no publicity, when my then little lads judo club opens 20 odd years ago, Carragher is there having photos with all the kids giving his time helps out loads you don't hear about, he's always helped out if he could. Just recently we were raising money for cancer treatment for a friends daughter, who's the first we go to, and Jamie is on the phone to her Mum explaining he can't make event as he's working commentating on Champions league final but offering support of his foundation. I don't get too stary eyed about footballers, disagree with his views but don't rewrite history, great servant to Liverpool.

Agreed. People get far too emotional/precious with all the shite punditry they hear on Sky Sports or whatever. Still a legend for me and was one of my favourites growing up. Nothing footy-related that he says on Sky Sports is going to change that for me (probably helps that I don't really watch any of that punditry shite these days anyway)

He's still a proud scouser and that for me is enough