Topic: The Men in Suits behind the scenes

[Sinyoro]

Edwards at the top running all of FSG’s football operations - at the moment just Liverpool obviously but soon to be another club (and possibly more).

Ward essentially as his number two, the technical director. Per the Athletic: “His wide range of responsibilities will include oversight of Liverpool’s academy, FSG’s loan department, group
wide elite player development strategies and the establishment of FSG’s new football innovation department.” He’ll report to Edwards.

Marques is director of football development. Been brought in for his expertise in player development, career pathways, coaching methodologies and performance analysis. The Athletic says he will “also preside over the management of football operations at any club added to FSG’s stable as the American owners look to establish a multi-club model.” He’ll report to Ward, not Edwards.

So those are the FSG appointments. You then have Hughes as an employee of Liverpool, serving as sporting director where he will “oversee the coaching, recruitment, negotiations, medical and sports science operations, along with the administrative and facilities management at the Kirkby training complex.” He’ll report to Edwards and will also have an assistant sporting director in David Woodfine who is returning to the club.

All points to FSG looking to establish a football empire. As market speculators, I think it's a sign that they see football as a profitable business that can only get better.

Thanks for the explanation.

[[new username under construction]]

I assume Alex Inglethorpe will stay on under Ward?

[mickeydocs]

I think he means not letting them buy Christian Benteke because they've thrown a paddy, for example.

Could you please explain what "throwing a paddy" means?

[So… Howard Philips]

Could you please explain what "throwing a paddy" means?

Having a wobbler:

[TepidT2O]

Could you please explain what "throwing a paddy" means?

It’s like dwarf tossing only with Irish people,

[mickeydocs]

Having a wobbler:

With racist undertones, in fact full blown racial slur. Is this language acceptable on a forum with so many 'Paddys'?

[No666]

So Marques is trying to improve players at the satellite club(s) whereby they are
good enough to transfer to LFC
good enough to help their club win locally
good enough to be sold outside of the group for a profit

And Ward has overview of what he's doing and an overview of our academy including the best loans to develop that talent including, presumably, the possibility that the satellite club(s) use(s) our loanees on a regular basis.

I would guess that the selling for a profit is planned to be concentrated at that level. The reason we went from selling the likes of Suarez and Coutinho for profit to not selling was success. Why would any player with a reasonable chance of trophies, including the biggest, agitate to leave unless to go to a club more guaranteed to win those trophies, one of whom we will not deal with and the other of whom is well-stocked with talent.

[zamagiure]

With racist undertones, in fact full blown racial slur. Is this language acceptable on a forum with so many 'Paddys'?

Absolutely not.☘

[capt k]

With racist undertones, in fact full blown racial slur. Is this language acceptable on a forum with so many 'Paddys'?

Paddy Pimblet likes it

[Dim Glas]

shame this multi-club nonsense wasn’t nipped in the bud years ago.  But that horse has bolted, so I guess it’s a case of ‘may as well join them’ now with FSG. 
Just another side of football that is hugely off-putting for the sport at this level for me.

[Samie]

This fucker has a real hard on for you it seems Samie lad 😂

Ah Shady mate, I have my own fan club on here. Suprised they've not asked you to join.

[disgraced cake]

The 2nd club stuff (and possibly more in the future) is seriously shite. I can only hope they've bought the biggest no marks going. Are there any rules against them also owning Everton?

[Samie]

Unfortunatley yes mate. John Henry can't be seen owning two clubs in the same country.

[the_red_pill]

I assume Alex Inglethorpe will stay on under Ward?

Hope he does, to be honest. We've already lost Pep and Achterburg.
There's been a lot of change, so the more people stay, the better.

[the_red_pill]

I'm starting to get the feeling that FSG are planning to buy more than 1 additional club.

Not a feeling mate. There have been rumours going back a season already that they are interested in that.
We've been past the feeling part for a long time. The appointments and their job descriptions include that possibility.

[Wingman]

Will it though Samie.

There is the possibility that this is all being set up to allow us to compete with the Petro-funded clubs. There is also the possibility that it is being set up to turn us into a Redbull on steroids. A talent factory that goes back to selling its best players for huge profits.

Klopp wanted to win trophies and create a project. There is a very real possibility that the suits are judged on another criterion. How much they generate from the transfer market and how profitable the club is.

FSG are unwilling to compete with their US franchises so why should Liverpool be any different? Why compete with the Petro-Dollar clubs when Brighton have shown you can generate hundreds of millions by setting up a multi-club model and selling off your players to the highest bidder.

Al do you think it’s possible that they could do both? You know, bring in some very good players to Liverpool whilst selling the ones who don’t quite make it for some big profits?

[So… Howard Philips]

Al do you think it’s possible that they could do both? You know, bring in some very good players to Liverpool whilst selling the ones who don’t quite make it for some big profits?

Like Solanke, Ibe, Brewster and Williams?

[Eeyore]

Al do you think it’s possible that they could do both? You know, bring in some very good players to Liverpool whilst selling the ones who don’t quite make it for some big profits?

Yes I think it is entirely possible that FSG's recruitment team could bring very good players to Liverpool. FSG could also also sell players for a good profit.

The issue is whether they can do that and compete for trophies at the same time.

[LiamG]

We needed to spend money last summer, we had a CL-sized hole in our budget and we certainly couldn't sell to buy.

But we still managed to spend €172mil (According to Transfermarket) Could you imagine if we'd not let Firmino, Keita, Ox run down their contracts? we would of had a bit more in the kitty

Hopefully with Edwards now back, we won't have that problem again and players will be sold when they are considered "past their peak" instead of being given long contracts (Henderson) There's also a lot of youth coming through now who might not be good enough for our team but good enough to be sold to smaller clubs e.g like Nico williams, Solanke etc

[Motty]

Ah Shady mate, I have my own fan club on here. Suprised they've not asked you to join.

Well there have been PM discussions but I didn't like to bring it up 👀👀👀

[Garlic Red]

If FSG were trying to turn us into a sort of Red Bull on steroids, they’ve done a pretty bad job of it over the last 10 years, consistently letting players walk on free transfers and allowing them to pass their peak, probably to appease the manager.

Trading players and making a profit is something every large club should aspire to do and has always done. Selling your best players shouldn’t be a part of that, unfortunately it’s inevitable when you underperform on the field and I’d say that’s the biggest reason we sold some of our best players over the years rather than any kind of top down strategy. Torres wanted out, Suarez wanted out, Sterling wanted out and Coutinho wanted out, all apart from Coutinho went to better sides at the time to compete at the top.

The need to compete is imperative for the club to continue to grow and ultimately maximise the value of the asset for FSG. The difference between competing and simply getting top 4 sometimes is luck, people always want to drag it down to ifs, buts and maybes in the transfer window, but the reality is luck is probably the biggest factor. The three seasons we passed 90+ points were the seasons we weren’t decimated by injuries, in two of those seasons we also reached CL finals. The covid season, last season and especially this season we were hammered by stupendous injuries at key periods. The top two sides this season have been the two who’ve been able to keep the majority of their squad fit for long parts of the season, whether that’s down to greater brain power or simply more luck, none of us know, but that’s been the difference between competing and simply finishing third in two of the three seasons we haven’t competed for the league since being good enough to do so.

There’s no comparisons to be made with US sports and European football, the parameters are completely different. The playing field is more level and you can’t quite control your destiny in the way you can with football over here. The draft and player trading process is completely unique and nothing like how the transfer market here operates.

For me FSG would gain very little by turning the club into a juiced up selling club that doesn’t compete. The growth in the club since being competitive has been astronomical, they simply wouldn’t get the same results by turning the club into a giant selling club. I think with some of the new spending rules with UEFA and European clubs seemingly becoming less and less able to spend big sums, there simply isn’t the same opportunity in consistently selling your best players when you’re a destination club.

[CraigDS]

5 big sensible paragraphs the ridiculous suggestion probably didn’t deserve.

[MBL?]

It’s like dwarf tossing only with Irish people,

I remember you calling me out for racism for saying isreal should know better from their experiences when it comes to Palestine. This came after i said the idf would kill 10 times the number of innocent Palestinians, I probably should have said 100. Yet here we are and you're throwing a jew?

Is it acceptable on here to behave like this? Just to be clear I don't think it's acceptable to say somebody is throwing a jew. It shouldn't be for any people, but sure it's a paddy who cares since they aren't a religion so are fair game like we've always been.

[MBL?]

Apologies for going off topic. All said we can be critical of the appointments but they got us klopp and some great players who klopp made better. Will be tough but maybe that's the big thing with them choosing Arne

[kvarmeismydad]

The concern for me is that there is a fine line between having a clever set up and executing a clever set up. The last thing a new manage following Klopp needs is a gang of fellas looking over your shoulder questioning your every move

Klopp didn't take to Carvalho for example. Was it an attitude issue? Does this mean it'll be harder for a manage with less influence and confidence to manage the squad with all of the expectations these fellas will bring. We've found you a diamond. He's arriving tomorrow. He needs your guidance and development. He turns up and he's suffering from the mental expectations that took him there or simply, he's a dick. Klopp would have gone against the grain, not used them, told them its thier fault, recommended a loan. FSG would have listened. A new manager in these conditions might not be so brave.

It feels like such a difficult job with the conditions being set up in all honesty. Slot will have to be really really collaborative and malleable. He'll have to lead a squad whilst being dictated to. I will be hugely impressed if we make top 4.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I remember you calling me out for racism for saying isreal should know better from their experiences when it comes to Palestine. This came after i said the idf would kill 10 times the number of innocent Palestinians, I probably should have said 100. Yet here we are and you're throwing a jew?

Is it acceptable on here to behave like this? Just to be clear I don't think it's acceptable to say somebody is throwing a jew. It shouldn't be for any people, but sure it's a paddy who cares since they aren't a religion so are fair game like we've always been.

(And keep your knickers on people, he's an actual Jew.)


Seriously though, we both said the same & then got called Nazis (at least I did) & racist. 

As for the topic, they'll get full backing from me, if they keep us challenging. I've not read or watched any interviews of the ditch fella, not even watched his side play, just excited to see how he has us playing & that's what I will judge him on.

[spider-neil]

If FSG were trying to turn us into a sort of Red Bull on steroids, they’ve done a pretty bad job of it over the last 10 years, consistently letting players walk on free transfers and allowing them to pass their peak, probably to appease the manager.

Trading players and making a profit is something every large club should aspire to do and has always done. Selling your best players shouldn’t be a part of that, unfortunately it’s inevitable when you underperform on the field and I’d say that’s the biggest reason we sold some of our best players over the years rather than any kind of top down strategy. Torres wanted out, Suarez wanted out, Sterling wanted out and Coutinho wanted out, all apart from Coutinho went to better sides at the time to compete at the top.

The need to compete is imperative for the club to continue to grow and ultimately maximise the value of the asset for FSG. The difference between competing and simply getting top 4 sometimes is luck, people always want to drag it down to ifs, buts and maybes in the transfer window, but the reality is luck is probably the biggest factor. The three seasons we passed 90+ points were the seasons we weren’t decimated by injuries, in two of those seasons we also reached CL finals. The covid season, last season and especially this season we were hammered by stupendous injuries at key periods. The top two sides this season have been the two who’ve been able to keep the majority of their squad fit for long parts of the season, whether that’s down to greater brain power or simply more luck, none of us know, but that’s been the difference between competing and simply finishing third in two of the three seasons we haven’t competed for the league since being good enough to do so.

There’s no comparisons to be made with US sports and European football, the parameters are completely different. The playing field is more level and you can’t quite control your destiny in the way you can with football over here. The draft and player trading process is completely unique and nothing like how the transfer market here operates.

For me FSG would gain very little by turning the club into a juiced up selling club that doesn’t compete. The growth in the club since being competitive has been astronomical, they simply wouldn’t get the same results by turning the club into a giant selling club. I think with some of the new spending rules with UEFA and European clubs seemingly becoming less and less able to spend big sums, there simply isn’t the same opportunity in consistently selling your best players when you’re a destination club.

When you have history-making injury lists in 3 of the last 5 seasons that ceases to bad luck and is instead poor planning, poor preparation, poor recovery.
The season all our center backs got injured we didn't have enough centre back cover considering Gomez and Matip are injury prone.
The covid season when the pre-season was shorter our training was as intense as a normal pre-season and in the season we dropped like flies.
This season, Salah, Trent, and Dom were brought back too early and subsequently, all three broke down and returned later in the season which resulted in them being undercooked in the run-in and their replacement being overplayed and knacked.

I'm really glad most of the fitness team is being moved on because they have shown in recent times they are not fit for purpose and it has cost us dearly and at crucial times. That has nothing to do with luck.

[Fromola]

If FSG were trying to turn us into a sort of Red Bull on steroids, they’ve done a pretty bad job of it over the last 10 years, consistently letting players walk on free transfers and allowing them to pass their peak, probably to appease the manager.

Is that ultimately were the friction/professional differences was with Klopp and Edwards? Edwards wanted to rebuild the team quicker, Klopp wanted to keep it together. And you do need a mix of both. If it was up to Klopp for example then Gini probably gets the deal he wants and if it's up to Edwards then Henderson doesn't. And signing a 30 year old in Thiago for 4 years, with a bad injury history, when you've already got an ageing midfield isn't good strategy. Keita/Ox were meant to be the midfielders in their prime in the squad but weren't good enough/durable enough and far too slow to be moved on and allowed to run their contracts down.

The players who have left it's usually been their choice. Either in running down their contracts or wanted to leave (Mane to Bayern and Henderson or Fabinho to Saudi). Mane could have just been another one to run his contract down. Virg, Trent and Salah can all do the same now in their last 12 months.

[MonsLibpool]

Is that ultimately were the friction/professional differences was with Klopp and Edwards? Edwards wanted to rebuild the team quicker, Klopp wanted to keep it together. And you do need a mix of both. If it was up to Klopp for example then Gini probably gets the deal he wants and if it's up to Edwards then Henderson doesn't. And signing a 30 year old in Thiago for 4 years, with a bad injury history, when you've already got an ageing midfield isn't good strategy. Keita/Ox were meant to be the midfielders in their prime in the squad but weren't good enough/durable enough and far too slow to be moved on and allowed to run their contracts down.

The players who have left it's usually been their choice. Either in running down their contracts or wanted to leave (Mane to Bayern and Henderson or Fabinho to Saudi). Mane could have just been another one to run his contract down. Virg, Trent and Salah can all do the same now in their last 12 months.

That's something has to fix. We can't have so many players leaving for nothing.  It's just not sustainable.

What you said about Keita and Ox is something that is usually glossed over when looking back on their time. They were expected to take over from Hendo and Milner and they should have been moved on when it became clear that they couldn't. Keita especially was signed to be a first 11 player and not a squad player.

[Zlen]

I'm really glad most of the fitness team is being moved on because they have shown in recent times they are not fit for purpose and it has cost us dearly and at crucial times. That has nothing to do with luck.

Pretty much our most important outgoing of the summer - already done. Whatever Kornmeier and his team were planning - it didn’t work. For vast majority of the time. Anything we won, we did by surmounting injury issues and dodgy form timing through grit. We need better.

Wasn’t fussed about any outgoings from the backroom team, but this team being replaced can hardly leave us in a worse position.

[MonsLibpool]

Yes I think it is entirely possible that FSG's recruitment team could bring very good players to Liverpool. FSG could also also sell players for a good profit.

The issue is whether they can do that and compete for trophies at the same time.

The players that'll be bought as part of the MCO model will be bought at cheaper prices so it won't really have an impact.

We're not a selling club. We'll simply buy players earlier and cheaper than we normally do and only the best will make it. That doesn't really affect our normal transfers, it just makes it less likely to miss out on hidden gems.

[So… Howard Philips]

I remember you calling me out for racism for saying isreal should know better from their experiences when it comes to Palestine. This came after i said the idf would kill 10 times the number of innocent Palestinians, I probably should have said 100. Yet here we are and you're throwing a jew?

Is it acceptable on here to behave like this? Just to be clear I don't think it's acceptable to say somebody is throwing a jew. It shouldn't be for any people, but sure it's a paddy who cares since they aren't a religion so are fair game like we've always been.

I think you’ve got the wrong end if the stick here. I grew up in an Irish Catholic family in the 1950s whenever I didn’t get my own way and had a but if a temper fit I’d be accused of ‘Getting eggy’ ‘Having a wobbler’ and, yes, ‘Throwing a paddy’.

It was just one of those expressions in common currency amongst Scouse families and no actual citizens if Eire were assaulted.

[Mighty_Red]

That's something has to fix. We can't have so many players leaving for nothing.  It's just not sustainable.

There isn't too much the club can do about it though, and in most cases the decision has been correct. Only Keita and Ox left whilst in their 'peak' years, all the others were into their 30s. Only Gini is the one that left too early but even then history has shown that he has never come close to that peak.

The main problem we have had is that we have not been a club who sells its big talents for the past 6 years. As we have tried to win things we have paid out big wages to compete with City. The positive is that players want to stay but the negative is that its tough to get rid of players you don't want.

We don't have useful idiots like Man U and Everton who buy other team's cast offs at a premium so who do we sell the likes of Keita or Ox to? Its not really a sensible sale if you take such a big haircut that you might as well keep the player for an extra year. Just remember that any headline fee exlcudes loyalty bonuses etc.

We've usually done this calculation with 2 years left and probably realised its cheaper to let someone like Gini stay on low wages and leave for free than give him an insane long contract. Utd have feel i to this trap which is why they have such a massive issue.

The club has got pelters for selling Sadio and letting Gini go but at the same time got pelters for keeping players too long so its always a delicate balancing act especially when the boss wants certain players and you can't just overule him on everything.

[MonsLibpool]

There isn't too much the club can do about it though, and in most cases the decision has been correct. Only Keita and Ox left whilst in their 'peak' years, all the others were into their 30s. Only Gini is the one that left too early but even then history has shown that he has never come close to that peak.

The main problem we have had is that we have not been a club who sells its big talents for the past 6 years. As we have tried to win things we have paid out big wages to compete with City. The positive is that players want to stay but the negative is that its tough to get rid of players you don't want.

We don't have useful idiots like Man U and Everton who buy other team's cast offs at a premium so who do we sell the likes of Keita or Ox to? Its not really a sensible sale if you take such a big haircut that you might as well keep the player for an extra year. Just remember that any headline fee exlcudes loyalty bonuses etc.

We've usually done this calculation with 2 years left and probably realised its cheaper to let someone like Gini stay on low wages and leave for free than give him an insane long contract. Utd have feel i to this trap which is why they have such a massive issue.

The club has got pelters for selling Sadio and letting Gini go but at the same time got pelters for keeping players too long so its always a delicate balancing act especially when the boss wants certain players and you can't just overule him on everything.

Some players that are bit players at best can be loaned out and part of their wages and the loan fee then be reinvested.

It was obvious that Thiago wasn't going to be a starter this year and that his wages were inflated for his squad role. In his own case, I would have granted him a free transfer if there were no offers and reinvested the saving (i.e £50m transfer in someone more durable).

A lot of money has been wasted by doing nothing and it's not about the owners being "mingebags". We could be smarter in the way we manage what we have and I hope Edwards' return will bring improvements.

[Redbonnie]

The Edwards structure looks a big and untested power play. Klopp came to us a proven winner, this new regime and model is a gamble. We do have to move forward though and trust that what works on paper works in reality. Data nerds don’t usually make great managers in my experience but at least there seems to be a clear plan in place. That is half the battle so I am happy to get behind the project and see where it takes us. I do wonder what the timescales are, do they need Liverpool to be successful on the pitch to draw the players at the bottom of the pyramid? I hope so because it will mean more investment in our players.

[Fromola]

Some players that are bit players at best can be loaned out and part of their wages and the loan fee then be reinvested.

It was obvious that Thiago wasn't going to be a starter this year and that his wages were inflated for his squad role. In his own case, I would have granted him a free transfer if there were no offers and reinvested the saving (i.e £50m transfer in someone more durable).

A lot of money has been wasted by doing nothing and it's not about the owners being "mingebags". We could be smarter in the way we manage what we have and I hope Edwards' return will bring improvements.

It's possible that Thiago was earmarked for an exit in the summer and Fabinho/Henderson going meant we weren't getting let all 3 go (on top of Milner, Keita, Ox).

The midfield rebuild going back to Gini was so cack-handed that it set us back a lot. Ox and/or Keita could have been loaned out least in 2022 to make room for a new signing.

[kaesarsosei]

I don't care what anyone says, to me it looks FSG are sparing no expense and giving us the absolute best chance possible to move forward after Klopp. I had just been accepting over the last few months that we will struggle for at least a season but in fairness, I don't think the club could be doing anything more to ensure we remain at the very top in the short-term. And in the long term all these appointments and strategies look very good - you could argue an improvement over how we were setup under Klopp.

Don't get me wrong, next season is a transition season and I would 100% take 3rd place and a domestic cup again in our first season post-Klopp, but a few months ago I would have been happy to shake hands on Europa qualification. I also feel we should have a bit of money to spend this summer.

[MonsLibpool]

I don't care what anyone says, to me it looks FSG are sparing no expense and giving us the absolute best chance possible to move forward after Klopp. I had just been accepting over the last few months that we will struggle for at least a season but in fairness, I don't think the club could be doing anything more to ensure we remain at the very top in the short-term. And in the long term all these appointments and strategies look very good - you could argue an improvement over how we were setup under Klopp.

Don't get me wrong, next season is a transition season and I would 100% take 3rd place and a domestic cup again in our first season post-Klopp, but a few months ago I would have been happy to shake hands on Europa qualification. I also feel we should have a bit of money to spend this summer.

I know people complain about them not pumping money in but instead of giving us a fish, they've taught us how to fish by boosting our income and we're now level with United now.

It's up to us to either manage the resources well or waste it on bloated wages while talking about the owners being mingebags.

Ironically,  every other club now has to comply with this "spend what you earn policy". With the spending cap coming in, clubs now have to bypass the middle man to make the best use of more limited funds and that's what they're trying to do. We now aim to get Sadio Mane from Austria instead of from Soton.

These deals will obviously be cheaper and the players will be on low wages as they're not yet proven so it doesn't really have an impact on the deals we make for players to come into the team now.

[Garlic Red]

Some players that are bit players at best can be loaned out and part of their wages and the loan fee then be reinvested.

It was obvious that Thiago wasn't going to be a starter this year and that his wages were inflated for his squad role. In his own case, I would have granted him a free transfer if there were no offers and reinvested the saving (i.e £50m transfer in someone more durable).

A lot of money has been wasted by doing nothing and it's not about the owners being "mingebags". We could be smarter in the way we manage what we have and I hope Edwards' return will bring improvements.

Good luck granting a player on £200k+ a week a free transfer on the back of hip surgery. He’d never have passed a medical anywhere as evidenced by how his season went, contractually we owe it to the player to pay him and provide his rehab.

I think selling players is a really difficult thing to get right and there’s no real magic solution. If you start wielding the axe every summer, it could disrupt dressing room harmony and result in players wanting to leave if they feel like they lack security in their future. At the same time, you then end up with a scenario where players who probably should have been sold end up getting new contracts and outstaying their welcome (Lovren, Origi, Ox, Henderson). The only large club that seem to do a pretty good job at managing this are City and I’m hard pushed to offer them any type of credit given the murkiness in which they operate. They’re the only club that seem able to sell any player they like every summer and always find a willing buyer.

For a manager like Jurgen it can be difficult to take the emotion out of it given he’s so big on emotional buy in. Maybe with the new structure in place we’ll see less decisions biting us in the arse at the tail end of their contracts. For me it always felt like Jurgen always had the 7 year thing in his mind and didn’t really want to be around for the full rebuild, which is completely fair, which is why I felt he was reluctant to let players leave and missed the boat. He’d always say 27-32 is the peak age for a footballer, he came here with the idea we’d be signing 21-25 year olds, 7 years with them was pretty much managing their peaks then leaving.

[DelTrotter]

It was obvious that Thiago wasn't going to be a starter this year and that his wages were inflated for his squad role. In his own case, I would have granted him a free transfer if there were no offers and reinvested the saving (i.e £50m transfer in someone more durable).

  Yeah it's really that simple. I'm sure he'd be buzzing to give up 10m to help us boot him out.