Topic: The Men in Suits behind the scenes

[Samie]

What is with the Ward family and their perverse fancy to Portugal

Their ancestor is Vasco de Gama.

[koptommy93]

I think any manager worth their salt will want at least a little bit of input.

The way I like to think all this is gonna work is Arne giving our recruiters a profile of players he wants, they come back with a list and Arne eventually takes a hard look and picks who he wants. I think both sides would be happy with such arrangement. Arne doesn't strike me as a guy to walk in another club with a group of people he never worked with before and let them force any player(s) on him. It's his job on the line and I can't see this kind of scenario happening.

This arrangement will only work imo if they work together and are on the same page.

I think he means not letting them buy Christian Benteke because they've thrown a paddy, for example.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

I'm starting to get the feeling that FSG are planning to buy more than 1 additional club.

[Eeyore]

What is with the Ward family and their perverse fancy to Portugal

Half expecting Shayne Ward to be representing Portugal in the Eurovision tomorrow.

[Samie]

I'm starting to get the feeling that FSG are planning to buy more than 1 additional club.

There was a journo a few months back said that ideally FSG want to buy a European club, South American and MLS clubs with LFC at the top of it.

[Dench57]

@David_Ornstein
·
23m
Ugly scenes at LFC's AXA Training Centre as new appointments clash with coaching staff ahead of their return this summer. Jurgen Klopp reported to have offered Julian Ward out for a straightener and new Chief Executive of Football Michael Edwards seen operating a military drone from laptop. Police now have situation under control.
@TheAthleticFC

[Bobinhood]

idk the Jorge in Izba "wanna do some rails off a strippers ass?" method of transfer planning was working pretty good. i suppose if you just want to put hand picked high value highly experienced next level data driven masters of their craft in positions of authority and set out vertically integrate the whole structure four-fold to create both sporting and financial outperformance you could just go ahead and try it, but man why screw with a good system like titties and beer? titties and beer have been outperforming since before there was beer!

[Knight]

Some excellent posts in the last few pages chaps. Tepid in particular brought a giggle.

[Fromola]

Isn't that exactly what I said?

FSG may be setting up a multi-club model to compete with the petro-dollar clubs. There is also the possibility that they are doing it to make money from player trading.

So maybe we shouldn't make assumptions and keep an open mind.

There's probably different reasons they're doing it, but it's about practicalities. They don't want to be paying 80 million for Nunez or 100 million for Fernandez from a team like Benfica when they could have these kind of players at their own Portuguese club direct from South America and sell them on (to Liverpool or elsewhere).

They'll have looked at the way Brighton have done it (with Caicedo as well).

[Fromola]

I think any manager worth their salt will want at least a little bit of input.

The way I like to think all this is gonna work is Arne giving our recruiters a profile of players he wants, they come back with a list and Arne eventually takes a hard look and picks who he wants. I think both sides would be happy with such arrangement. Arne doesn't strike me as a guy to walk in another club with a group of people he never worked with before and let them force any player(s) on him. It's his job on the line and I can't see this kind of scenario happening.

This arrangement will only work imo if they work together and are on the same page.

It's about, or should be, operating by consensus. Slot needs to sign off on every signing and Edwards/Hughes sign off as well. The checks and balances approach that we had with Edwards/Klopp/Gordon that served us so well in building a title winning team.

As we learnt from the Rodgers era there's no use signing a player that the manager doesn't want because he won't play him. You may as well do something more useful with the money and donate it to charity. Also you need to guard against signing a player who is purely a suggestion of the manager, that makes no sense in terms of the stats and general style of play (Benteke obvious example). These tend to be players that played well against us once and therefore we want to sign them (Nunez/Minamino arguably the same). But that's where the checks and balances need to come in and the data needs to back it up.

[istvan kozma]

None of them were here bar Edwards who wasn't Sporting Director then. 

Wrong again, Julian Ward was our Portugal scout when we went and wasted £20m on Markovic

[Samie]

Arne Slot will move into Jurgen Klopp's £4million house when he takes Liverpool job.  The club bought the house from Brendan Rodgers.
[@MirrorFootball]

[Suareznumber7]

I'm starting to get the feeling that FSG are planning to buy more than 1 additional club.

Seems like multiple clubs may be what they are thinking doesn't it?

[duvva 💅]

I don’t know what’s real and what isn’t in here anymore

[TepidT2O]

I don’t know what’s real and what isn’t in here anymore

Samie is an AI sexbot, ignore.

The house bit seems true though.

[duvva 💅]

Samie is an AI sexbot, ignore.

The house bit seems true though.

I thought your first line was more likely real

[Mighty_Red]

Wrong again, Julian Ward was our Portugal scout when we went and wasted £20m on Markovic

I think we just have to accept that this was more a Rodgers failure than it was a committee error. Who knows how Bobby would've turned out had Rodgers stayed for another 6 months?

During 2012/13 Rodgers did a good job getting the younger players playing good football, but that ability declined after that. The names mentioned earlier all did better away from us so it shows we had the right idea just we overlooked some aspects including plans for integrating them into our way of playing.

Mistakes have been made in recruitment and we still make mistakes now, everyone does just we've improved quite a bit in that respect.

[Samie]

https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/1789009404437639189

[Eeyore]

There's probably different reasons they're doing it, but it's about practicalities. They don't want to be paying 80 million for Nunez or 100 million for Fernandez from a team like Benfica when they could have these kind of players at their own Portuguese club direct from South America and sell them on (to Liverpool or elsewhere).

They'll have looked at the way Brighton have done it (with Caicedo as well).

I don't think the way a multi club model works is up for debate. The end game could be to compete at the highest level.

The thing is when we were wheeling and dealing we were bringing in huge amounts of money from player trading and had a relatively low wage bill and pre covid were making huge profits. £125m in 17/18 and £40m in 18/19.

Last season the size of the wage bill resulted in a £9m loss and FSG having to sell off a. chunk of the club to rebuild. So what do we become a high risk club that challenges at the very highest level or a much safer proposition that brings players through the multi club model and then are sold off the way Torres, Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho were.

I think the proof will be in the pudding.

[Samie]

I see you  more as a lemon meringue pie mate.

[Mighty_Red]

I see you  more as a lemon meringue pie mate.

Nah, I'd say Boston Cream Pie

[CraigDS]

https://twitter.com/MirrorFootball/status/1789009404437639189

He’s also booked in to get his teeth and eyes done, and is off to Turkey for a Klopp wig transplant.

[Clint Eastwood]

I’m enjoying the measured and organised approach we have been taking. Makes me pretty excited about what the new era has in store.

[harleydanger]

We'll finally settle the argument, nature over nurture, data over coaching.

Was it Klopp that made Salah great, or did Salah come predestined to greatness?

[farawayred]

We'll finally settle the argument, nature over nurture, data over coaching.

Was it Klopp that made Salah great, or did Salah come predestined to greatness?

Or was it data that found Klopp, who could make Salah great... 4D chess that.

[newterp]

Or was it data that found Klopp, who could make Salah great... 4D chess that.

But who created the Big Bang? I mean at the beginning beginning. Was there some unknown entity that was bored?

[Motty]

Wrong again, Julian Ward was our Portugal scout when we went and wasted £20m on Markovic

This fucker has a real hard on for you it seems Samie lad 😂

[Fromola]

We'll finally settle the argument, nature over nurture, data over coaching.

Was it Klopp that made Salah great, or did Salah come predestined to greatness?

Salah and Mane is a case where the model works. The data suggests it, manager agrees and great coaching makes it work. Had we signed Gotze and Brandt instead then it doesn't work as well, so that's why it's got to be collaborative.

Firmino for example wasn't collaborative as Rodgers didn't want him, but the data and the nerds were really keen. But it needs to be both. Benteke the manager wanted but the data/tactical fit would never have backed that up.

No approach is perfect as nobody is flawless in the market (Keita never became the star we expected, buying from abroad will always be hit and miss).

[Clint Eastwood]

We'll finally settle the argument, nature over nurture, data over coaching.

Was it Klopp that made Salah great, or did Salah come predestined to greatness?

It's going to be a little of both. When Klopp and Edwards worked at their very best together between 2017 and 2020 we were unstoppable and it's a shame it didn't continue for longer. After Edwards we've made some signings who Klopp has been unable to get the best out of and have seemed ill-fitting, but prior to Klopp we made some signings that failed under a different manager (namely Luis Alberto, Aspas, Borini, Sakho).

Bobby Firmino is probably the best example of their skillsets coming together to create a diamond of a player.

The early signs suggest that Slot will have significantly less say in recruitment than both Klopp and even Rodgers had.

[Eeyore]

I’m enjoying the measured and organised approach we have been taking. Makes me pretty excited about what the new era has in store.

I love the way we are doing a deep dive into the data and selecting the person with the best numbers. The fact that they are all mates is just a fortunate coincidence. The biggest upside though will be the ability to run the club via their WhatsApp group.

If Slot behaves they might even let him join one of the sub groups. 😉

[spider-neil]

Salah and Mane is a case where the model works. The data suggests it, manager agrees and great coaching makes it work. Had we signed Gotze and Brandt instead then it doesn't work as well, so that's why it's got to be collaborative.

Firmino for example wasn't collaborative as Rodgers didn't want him, but the data and the nerds were really keen. But it needs to be both. Benteke the manager wanted but the data/tactical fit would never have backed that up.

No approach is perfect as nobody is flawless in the market (Keita never became the star we expected, buying from abroad will always be hit and miss).

I think injury curtailed the Keita signing more than anything else. Same with Ox and Thiago. I think the difference with Keita is he didn't have an injury-riddled career before he joined so we couldn't anticipate what would occur. With Thiago and Ox we gambled with their fitness because of their past injury record and lost.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Basically have to be buying multiple clubs, right? I don’t think you put Edwards, Ward and Marques together at FSG if the plan is just Liverpool and another. Might start with just one, but I think before long you’ll probably see a South American club and maybe an MLS one.

I guess Hughes will have a lot taken off his plate with the structure above him?

[Eeyore]

Basically have to be buying multiple clubs, right? I don’t think you put Edwards, Ward and Marques together at FSG if the plan is just Liverpool and another. Might start with just one, but I think before long you’ll probably see a South American club and maybe an MLS one.

I guess Hughes will have a lot taken off his plate with the structure above him?

How is the acquisition and the running of those clubs going to be funded though. It makes sense for City because they are basically just using the multi club model to financially dope Man City.

How do you make the multi club model work from a pure business point of view. Red Bull use the multi club model and F1 to promote their core business. That isn't an option for FSG so how do you use the multi club model to make money?

[spider-neil]

How is the acquisition and the running of those clubs going to be funded though. It makes sense for City because they are basically just using the multi club model to financially dope Man City.

How do you make the multi club model work from a pure business point of view. Red Bull use the multi club model and F1 to promote their core business. That isn't an option for FSG so how do you use the multi club model to make money?

FSG will ensure that the clubs that are purchased are self sustaining just like Liverpool is.

[Mighty_Red]

Hughes is the only one working directly for LFC, the rest are under FSG so Hughes will be dedicated to us and in time will have control of our operation, reporting to Edwards.

Think it will be a strange first few months as we will have so many guys working in a very similar role, at least until that second club is bought.

Think the key from our perspective is that Slot is fully onboard with the way we want to work. Anyone who thinks he won't get a say is just trying to create trouble. Whether he gets the final say is a different matter (he probably won't).

The key is finding a coach who understands that any player the club brings in is a stylistic fit for the squad and our way of playing. Rodgers ego couldn't deal with this, Jurgen could and its likely Slot will deal with it as well.

[Sinyoro]

Could someone with a good knowledge of football structure and management please delineate the roles all these directors will play.

Its all much of a muchness to me

Thanks

[Eeyore]

FSG will ensure that the clubs that are purchased are self sustaining just like Liverpool is.

If Liverpool are self-sustaining, why did they have to sell a chunk of the club to Dynasty Equity to fund this season's transfers?

We were self-sustaining when we were making huge profits from player trading. If the multi-club model clubs below us are going to be self-sustaining then they are most likely to do that by selling players to us the way Salzburg sells players to Leipzig for tens of millions.

So is the model about each club being successful in its own right. About each club being the best they can be or is it just a case of creating a multi-club model to make money from player trading?

[Peabee]

If Liverpool are self-sustaining, why did they have to sell a chunk of the club to Dynasty Equity to fund this season's transfers?

We were self-sustaining when we were making huge profits from player trading. If the multi-club model clubs below us are going to be self-sustaining then they are most likely to do that by selling players to us the way Salzburg sells players to Leipzig for tens of millions.

So is the model about each club being successful in its own right. About each club being the best they can be or is it just a case of creating a multi-club model to make money from player trading?

Did any of that money get invested in the club, do we actually know? It'll be in the accounts published next year if so. I'd guess it's gone into FSG if it's not a sale of the owners' shares, and it will probably be used to invest in this new MCO model.

[Eeyore]

Did any of that money get invested in the club, do we actually know? It'll be in the accounts published next year if so. I'd guess it's gone into FSG if it's not a sale of the owners' shares, and it will probably be used to invest in this new MCO model.

We went from pulling out of the Bellingham deal to signing Macca, Szobo, Gravenberch, Endo and putting in a record bid for Caicedo. Klopp also made it clear that we needed investment to buy players.

“In the structure we had, we obviously were able to spend money, but it was always that we really have to look ‘what do we earn?’, that was always the situation. That’s clear,” he replied.



“In the end, we all know the two biggest transfers we did in the past, with Ali and Virg, how it happened – because we got money from Barcelona and spent it wisely!

“That’s the situation. For me, how we did it so far brought us where we are, so fine. But fresh money is no mistake, let me say it like this!

“Nothing gets cheaper, not only because of the inflation rate for all of us, but in football as well.

“Yes, sometimes you have to spend.

“We are really happy, really happy, to give all our young kids a chance. I’m so positive about the impact they will have in the future, whenever that starts.

“Like Harvey now, Stefan, Calvin is obviously pretty interesting, Ben Doak really interesting, Bobby Clark interesting. They all are.

“But around, from time to time, you have to throw in proven quality, and in an ideal world they are young as well – or not 35.

“And yes, for that, from time to time you have to take some risks and we’ll see.

“I have no idea what will happen, but I’m positive about it.


We needed to spend money last summer, we had a CL-sized hole in our budget and we certainly couldn't sell to buy.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Could someone with a good knowledge of football structure and management please delineate the roles all these directors will play.

Its all much of a muchness to me

Thanks

Edwards at the top running all of FSG’s football operations - at the moment just Liverpool obviously but soon to be another club (and possibly more).

Ward essentially as his number two, the technical director. Per the Athletic: “His wide range of responsibilities will include oversight of Liverpool’s academy, FSG’s loan department, group
wide elite player development strategies and the establishment of FSG’s new football innovation department.” He’ll report to Edwards.

Marques is director of football development. Been brought in for his expertise in player development, career pathways, coaching methodologies and performance analysis. The Athletic says he will “also preside over the management of football operations at any club added to FSG’s stable as the American owners look to establish a multi-club model.” He’ll report to Ward, not Edwards.

So those are the FSG appointments. You then have Hughes as an employee of Liverpool, serving as sporting director where he will “oversee the coaching, recruitment, negotiations, medical and sports science operations, along with the administrative and facilities management at the Kirkby training complex.” He’ll report to Edwards and will also have an assistant sporting director in David Woodfine who is returning to the club.