Topic: Brazilian Porn Review Topic (Warning: may contain Wijnaldum)

[xbugawugax]

there were a few moments when vvd was just basically passing into space knowing gini will pick the ball up. Not sure its a dutch coaching thing or those two on the same wavelength.

Love the way he was rolling into space. but i pointed out in the half time thread, he does look good i think because everton sat off him and gave him room to operate and was basically sitting deep and giving us the possesion.

I do think klopp was shoehorning him into the role for the next fixture. Hendo was playing further up and so was milner.

he has really become a swiss army knife player of sorts. From filling in the no 10 role, to the no 6 and even the no 8. Plays all role to the minimal of fuss.

[Legoland]

there were a few moments when vvd was just basically passing into space knowing gini will pick the ball up. Not sure its a dutch coaching thing or those two on the same wavelength.

Love the way he was rolling into space. but i pointed out in the half time thread, he does look good i think because everton sat off him and gave him room to operate and was basically sitting deep and giving us the possesion.

I do think klopp was shoehorning him into the role for the next fixture. Hendo was playing further up and so was milner.

he has really become a swiss army knife player of sorts. From filling in the no 10 role, to the no 6 and even the no 8. Plays all role to the minimal of fuss.

He was quite good in receiving the ball in tight spaces as well. Made a few nifty, nimble turns to break free.

[Asam]

---Gini---
Keith---Ox

Next season? Only drawback is there's no height there

It's worth taking a look at for sure, we will definitely sign a #6 regardless

[nico 8]

He was good today but not certain that is his best position. He did well as he is both a technical and an intelligent footballer. Hence his ability to play several positions. Not sure his ceiling is high enough as a no. 6. The ball does tend to get stuck under his feet which makes him vulnerable to being turned over in a dangerous position leaving our back line exposed. Secondly, not sure he has the natural passing ability to spread wide diagonally in the air. Cf- Alonso and even VVD. Everton gave him time.
Could he grow into that position- maybe. Worth a go against low block sides.

[Clint Eastwood]

Not so keen on him as a number 6 in the long term, but today he was very good. Probably one of his best performances this season. City will be a different test, however.

[hesbighesred]

Not so keen on him as a number 6 in the long term, but today he was very good. Probably one of his best performances this season. City will be a different test, however.

A harder one, for sure, but hopefully one that'll play to his strengths. What City won't do is have a Lukaku dropping off to beat him in the air and create second balls for them to win. What they likely will do is attempt to close him down and cut off his passing lanes, but shielding the ball and finding an out ball or breaking that press with a clever touch is something he excels at.

[Phil M]

---Gini---
Keith---Ox

Next season? Only drawback is there's no height there

[CHOPPER]

Good game today, but nothing better than a squad player.

[RedForeverTT]

A midfield of Tom Davis, Rooney and Schneiderlin wasn't a stern test for him as a 6.

The real test is when he face City on Tuesday but luckily for us, City's midfield looked exhausted having been made to chase the game last Wednesday night and again this afternoon. I only realised the damaged we have done to them when I saw none of City players save Fernandinho managed to sprint at all in the second half.

[El Lobo]

Yeah, actually getting really annoying.

It’s actually easier to type Keita. And it’s his name.

[PoetryInMotion]

Good game today, but nothing better than a squad player.

Despite evidence to the contrary so far in the last couple of years since he signed. Right.

[vivabobbygraham]

Good game today, but nothing better than a squad player.

[BabuYagu]

One thing I liked in the first half around 25min mark, he receives the ball and then looks to switch play from left to right to Clyne on his left foot quickly. He overhits it and it goes out for a throw but the fact he has that confidence in his left foot is crucial. If you have a very one footed player in midfield then you can read his intentions and press the side he will turn onto and have a lot of easy success. We have seen this happen numerous times this season with Henderson and Can.

[Filler.]

It's worth taking a look at for sure, we will definitely sign a #6 regardless

Or you say we're fine in the 6 now (with Keita, Henderson and Gini)... and then bring in a couple of 8's of quality.

Thought Gini was better than I hoped today.

[Chalky Boots]

Said before, technically,physically and tactically he could be the kind of midfielder Fernandinho is but I can't see us looking at it as a long term option unfortunately.

[BabuYagu]

Or you say we're fine in the 6 now (with Keita, Henderson and Gini)... and then bring in a couple of 8's of quality.

Thought Gini was better than I hoped today.

Keita won't play as #6

[Filler.]

Keita won't play as #6

He will. I wrote a letter.

[MrRaptorTurtle]

Keita won't play as #6

Was watching him on Thursday against Marseille, in the first half he seemed to play quite deep, but in the second half he was pretty much a CF at times!
So basically, he plays where the fuck he wants

[BabuYagu]

Was watching him on Thursday against Marseille, in the first half he seemed to play quite deep, but in the second half he was pretty much a CF at times!
So basically, he plays where the fuck he wants

It's true. It's impossible to define his position watching him

Sometimes plays the 2nd #6 for them, but always has a pure DM beside him like Demme (who I think is hugely under rated btw). It works for them though as they are a counter attacking sides and so sides are pushed up onto him in the #6 position. Here he will mostly be facing a low block and we need him positioned inside it to receive, turn and play through the tight spaces. He cannot do that as the #6 here - and if he did it would be suicide as then your entire midfield is open. And having him playing the #6 outside the block would be a criminal waste of his talents.

I mentioned before but I think he is similar to Pogba in the sense that the more you give him positional freedom to just look for opportunities where he pleases to wreck sides, the more he will shine. This is where Pogba struggles at United in a very rigid tactical framework. Klopp gives the front 4/5 positions more freedom.

[MrRaptorTurtle]

It's true. It's impossible to define his position watching him

Sometimes plays the 2nd #6 for them, but always has a pure DM beside him like Demme (who I think is hugely under rated btw). It works for them though as they are a counter attacking sides and so sides are pushed up onto him in the #6 position. Here he will mostly be facing a low block and we need him positioned inside it to receive, turn and play through the tight spaces. He cannot do that as the #6 here - and if he did it would be suicide as then your entire midfield is open. And having him playing the #6 outside the block would be a criminal waste of his talents.

I mentioned before but I think he is similar to Pogba in the sense that the more you give him positional freedom to just look for opportunities where he pleases to wreck sides, the more he will shine. This is where Pogba struggles at United in a very rigid tactical framework. Klopp gives the front 4/5 positions more freedom.

Yup!
Don't Leipzig usually play a 4-2-2-2?
Would like to see them use him in a midfield 3 with him sort of doing a bit of everything since I'm guessing that's what Klopp is going to use him for!

[PoetryInMotion]

Yup!
Don't Leipzig usually play a 4-2-2-2?
Would like to see them use him in a midfield 3 with him sort of doing a bit of everything since I'm guessing that's what Klopp is going to use him for!

They used to, but they've recently switched to a more conventional 4-4-2. Hard to classify though.

[BabuYagu]

Yup!
Don't Leipzig usually play a 4-2-2-2?
Would like to see them use him in a midfield 3 with him sort of doing a bit of everything since I'm guessing that's what Klopp is going to use him for!

Assuming our system stays the same/similar, then I suspect it is him & Gini for the deeper #8 role and Ox/Lallana for the higher #8/10 hybrid role. Given Lallana's fitness issues this season though, I hope we get another body in that can perform there and on the wing - e.g. Lemar

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Important game for him today, we need Big Game Gini to come to the party Tuesday. Hope Milner stays more disciplined next to him but thought they dovetailed nicely today.

[jepovic]

Assuming our system stays the same/similar, then I suspect it is him & Gini for the deeper #8 role and Ox/Lallana for the higher #8/10 hybrid role. Given Lallana's fitness issues this season though, I hope we get another body in that can perform there and on the wing - e.g. Lemar

Yeah I guess it depends on how one defines a squad player, but I'd be very surprised if Gini is part of our first 11 next season. He's not even in it right now, and then Keita will take one of the possible slots. For me, that's a squad player. He seems like a guy who could be ok with a minor role in a big club, unlike Can.

[BabuYagu]

Yeah I guess it depends on how one defines a squad player, but I'd be very surprised if Gini is part of our first 11 next season. He's not even in it right now, and then Keita will take one of the possible slots. For me, that's a squad player. He seems like a guy who could be ok with a minor role in a big club, unlike Can.

He's pretty much started when fit this season up until February bar a handful of games which you could put down to rotation. February he had that illness and since then he has been building up his fitness again as I believe he lost a lot of weight (and therefore core strength). Fact is, only 5 players have played more minutes than him this season.

[Giono]

He's pretty much started when fit this season up until February bar a handful of games which you could put down to rotation. February he had that illness and since then he has been building up his fitness again as I believe he lost a lot of weight (and therefore core strength). Fact is, only 5 players have played more minutes than him this season.

That illness must have been severe. He looks like he has lost a lot of weight.

[farawayred]

Diarrhea... I mean "the runs"... never mind, he's got the shits...  Yeah, it is the fastest way to lose weight.

[sminp]

Wonder if he will play deepest of the three on Tuesday after today's performance?

I’d be shocked if he didn’t, I reckon that’s why he played there yesterday despite Henderson starting. I’m expecting Gini as the 6 with Milner and Chambo ahead of him.

[jepovic]

He's pretty much started when fit this season up until February bar a handful of games which you could put down to rotation. February he had that illness and since then he has been building up his fitness again as I believe he lost a lot of weight (and therefore core strength). Fact is, only 5 players have played more minutes than him this season.

I was judging by who played City, which I assumed was the best Klopp could come up with. Can was not available either, and he has played most of the games he has been available.

[PoetryInMotion]

I was judging by who played City, which I assumed was the best Klopp could come up with. Can was not available either, and he has played most of the games he has been available.

You can't judge by 1 game, because single games are more of tactical battles at this level depending on opposition.

Against City, Henderson was shoe-in for No. 6 - with Can he might've at least had competition. And for the other positions, Klopp probably wanted some legs and running and it made sense for Milner. And someone to drive at the City defense and you get Ox. Not to mention Gini is just coming back of illness with a few games in his belt, before that he was pretty much regular. Doesn't mean Gini wouldn't be considered as a probable starter in different important games, which he has started so far in several over the last couple of years.

With Keita next season, things could become different, but I still think Klopp doesn't have a '11'. He rather has a 14-15 of close knit players whom he could depend upon and I would think even after Keita's arrival, he would be in that 15, if not in the 11 most times.

[BabuYagu]

I was judging by who played City, which I assumed was the best Klopp could come up with. Can was not available either, and he has played most of the games he has been available.

But this is supporters making assumptions with 1% of the information.

As mentioned before, Gini's illness saw him lose a lot of weight and therefore core strength. The medical team when comparing his fitness data between pre and post illness could be saying he is still at only 80% and probably not ready for a high intensity 90 minutes.

Again, the fact remains that since Gini signed, he has played when fit up until this illness. I wouldn't make assumptions based on events after the illness, it would just look like ignoring the more likely reason behind his reduced involvement for confirmation bias.

[Keita Success]

---Gini---
Keith---Ox

Next season? Only drawback is there's no height there

Look at City's midfield.

Did an article on Fernandinho and he wins something like 2.96 aerial duels per 90 minutes in the league, for a reference point, Matic wins 1.71. I don't think height is an issue per se. If you've got someone who knows what they're doing, that's all you need.

[BabuYagu]

Look at City's midfield.

Did an article on Fernandinho and he wins something like 2.96 aerial duels per 90 minutes in the league, for a reference point, Matic wins 1.71. I don't think height is an issue per se. If you've got someone who knows what they're doing, that's all you need.

You are ignoring the needs of different systems though. Literally every successful high pressing side in football since Happels & Michels has height in that #6 or plays with 3 center backs. Unlike Matic, Fernandinho drops in as a half back between the center backs and needs to be able to function as a center back in those instances and protect the center band of the pitch in terms of aerial duels.

Matic is a #6 in a low block. He can be fairly limited and it won't negatively impact on United's system. You put him in City's system in place of Fernandinho and he will drown in it.

[Vinay]

What illness was Gini afflicted with Babu? I am afraid I havent been keeping track.

[BabuYagu]

What illness was Gini afflicted with Babu? I am afraid I havent been keeping track.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2018/03/georginio-wijnaldum-reveals-fitness-setback-for-liverpool-after-recent-illness/

Speaking after that 5-0 win, Jurgen Klopp explained how “Gini was [tired] after 60 minutes,” with both he and Ben Woodburn struck with illness for a lengthy period.

And speaking to Dutch publication De Telegraaf while on international duty, Wijnaldum revealed how he was “hit by a violent infection, which caused me to lose weight.”

Wijnaldum detailed the club doctor’s evasive action in keeping him away from Melwood, in fear that he would “infect other players.”

“It lasted for two weeks,” he said, adding how prescribed antibiotics “made me sicker,” and after making his recovery he has been forced to play catch-up.

“I had to work on my fitness again. I have trained hard, but on Saturday I noticed that I need rhythm for the way I want to play,” he recalled.

“It’s going better, but I’m not as fit as before I got sick.”

His situation is similar to that of Ragnar Klavan, with the centre-back telling Estonian outlet Soccernet how he “lost six-and-a-half pounds” due to a virus in January, before suffering a hamstring injury.

“The timing of the injury was a bit bad—I don’t get injured very often, but I got exactly when the world’s most expensive midfielder is brought in,” he said.

“I gave up my position on a plate. Unfortunately, you can not choose how and when you get injured. After that, I knew that it would be difficult to win my position back.”

Another article here were Gini talks a bit more about it.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-star-gini-wijnaldum-reveals-12224750

And there is a clip here of Klopp trying to talk about it and being amused and how people react to talking about diarrhoea.
http://www.empireofthekop.com/2018/03/03/klopps-attempt-to-explain-wijnaldum-and-woodburn-illness-is-hilarious/

[Keita Success]

You are ignoring the needs of different systems though. Literally every successful high pressing side in football since Happels & Michels has height in that #6 or plays with 3 center backs. Unlike Matic, Fernandinho drops in as a half back between the center backs and needs to be able to function as a center back in those instances and protect the center band of the pitch in terms of aerial duels.

Matic is a #6 in a low block. He can be fairly limited and it won't negatively impact on United's system. You put him in City's system in place of Fernandinho and he will drown in it.

I don't think it's as clear cut as that. If you compare Henderson and Fernandinho's heat maps, Fernandinho clearly plays a lot more advanced. And whilst I know that you're talking about defensive contributions, if he dropped into that centre back position a lot, his heat map would be a lot more saturated in an area similar to Henderson, due to when he wins the ball back/collects the ball off other players. I think Henderson is actually a much better example of what you're talking about than Fernandinho.

The theory of it is definitely right, but football rarely fits into boxes X and Y. If you look at the goals we scored against them, we either won the ball back high up, or countered, which gave Fernandinho no time to transition into the centre of the two centre backs.

To clarify, I'm not saying we don't need height, or it's not preferable. I just don't think it's the be-all and end-all, particularly against the 'lesser' teams, because we'll have so much more of the ball. Physical teams like Leicester, and United are another issue, however.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Yeah, actually getting really annoying.

It’s actually easier to type Keita. And it’s his name.

We're banned from calling him Keith then?, sound, sorry if calling him KEITH annoys you so much, I'll be sure not to call him KEITH in future.

[BabuYagu]

I don't think it's as clear cut as that. If you compare Henderson and Fernandinho's heat maps, Fernandinho clearly plays a lot more advanced. And whilst I know that you're talking about defensive contributions, if he dropped into that centre back position a lot, his heat map would be a lot more saturated in an area similar to Henderson, due to when he wins the ball back/collects the ball off other players. I think Henderson is actually a much better example of what you're talking about than Fernandinho.

The theory of it is definitely right, but football rarely fits into boxes X and Y. If you look at the goals we scored against them, we either won the ball back high up, or countered, which gave Fernandinho no time to transition into the centre of the two centre backs.

To clarify, I'm not saying we don't need height, or it's not preferable. I just don't think it's the be-all and end-all, particularly against the 'lesser' teams, because we'll have so much more of the ball. Physical teams like Leicester, and United are another issue, however.

It wouldn't because heat maps only measure touches of the ball. Fernandinho is dropping the the 3rd phase of the attacking phase to protect when the attack breaks down from counter passing. This is very much one of these instances where data will tell you nothing. You need to study Man City games to see their shape and Fernandinhos actions, positions and what his responsibility is in each phase of play. He will ordinarily take ~150 touches of the ball per game of which <15% will be in that half back position. That doesn't mean it isn't important - because every one of those prevents a counter attack and the opposition escaping pressure. It does mean it won't significantly register in a sea of all other data though.

Also in the game you are looking at, City very much used a 3 center back system similar to that of Napoli. When they transition to the attack, Kompany stays center, Laporte and Otamendi either side and Fernandinho was free to play as more a midfield destroyer than as a #6 / Half Back. Plus you are comparing the heatmap of a player who was defending ~70% of the time with one attacking ~70% of the time.

[BabuYagu]

We're banned from calling him Keith then?, sound, sorry if calling him KEITH annoys you so much, I'll be sure not to call him KEITH in future.

We aren't allowed to call Keith Keith? Does Keith know about this?

[Flaccido Dongingo]

We aren't allowed to call Keith Keith? Does Keith know about this?

"Listen, don't mention KEITH!, I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all RIGHT, so! It's all forgotten now, and let's hear no more about KEITH. So, that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn KEITH, A BABY KEITH  and four KEITH salads."