Author Topic: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.  (Read 38798 times)

Offline Zappa

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What is a Scouser?

Funny enough it is terrifically difficult to define.

(Incidentally, you never here the term Wacker instead of Scouser these days, it was once common.)

A similar question about cultural identity has been going the rounds in Scotland for a long time now without anybody drawing up a definitive answer. This site shows just one thread of that debate: -

http://www.scottishweb.net/culture/scotsornot/scotland_ancestors_family.htm

Back to what makes a Scouser: -

Is it being born and bred there? “Dicky Sams” only? Going to be an awfully empty ground in these days then!
(Does Bootle count? What about Kirkby, Seaforth, Skelm, The Wirral?)
Where is that line drawn? I defy anyone to answer the question fully. Could lose an awful lot of famous long time served true fans if we choose this option to define Scouse.

Is it being born and bred of Scouse parents? (Whatever that might mean) Where do mixed marriages (Bootle dad Liverpool mum) sit in the equation?

Is it living there for a certain length of time? Merseyside and in particular the dock areas of Liverpool (most of which are in Bootle!) have hundreds of years of history of people arriving and going. Naturally many of these people deliberately or through some quirk of fate stayed on and settled. How long before they became Scousers?

Equally, do you cease to become a Scouser because when things got bad you had enough “get up and go” to get up and go?
How long after you’ve left do you have to hand your “Scouser” card in?

Are the children of these migrants denied their Scouse heritage because of their parent’s sins in “emigrating” to Southport, London, Birmingham etc etc

Population Churn
Is a technical term to describe how the profile of a place changes. People come people go and some stay put all their lives. At no two given dates are the populations identical.

It is well documented on other posts on this forum that Liverpool truly is a huge melting pot. Whilst there are people from every country in the world represented, much of the stock evolves from celtic roots. Nearly every Scouse family established for three or more generations will have one or more forebears from Scottish, Irish, Welsh or Manx blood. Funny that there are so many fans from those areas, isn’t it

When I was a kid the population of Liverpool proper (ie don’t count Bootle etc) was over a million, in 2001 it had fallen to less than half that (439,00).
Now it doesn’t take a genius to see that there are more Scousers (and their offspring) outside of Liverpool than in it.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pyramids/pages/00by.asp

The Liverpool I grew up in

Had lots of unwashed uncultured Neanderthals BUT had an awfully lot more cultured intelligent, witty warm hearted people.

Returning to Scottish pride, they have a very famous bit about all the firsts and good inventions that came from Scotland:-

http://homepages.tesco.net/~William.Bryson/brag.html

It would be easy to match this with the things that Liverpool and its people gave to the world. It would be interesting to do so in another thread.

Although a hard place to live, it had a heart of gold, welcoming the newcomer (Because many of the residents were newcomers not that long ago)

There was an honour and pride in your neighbourhood. Scallys and Urchins would never have been tolerated because of the things they got up to. The only homes that they could boast in were the sort where you wiped your feet on the way out and held your breath if you had to go in the house. Would you let your daughter marry one?

The place was like a huge series of villages, you were known by most of the people for about 8 or 10 streets in every direction. When you went further there would always be someone who knew somebody else who knew you.
Although crime existed, very few people committed crimes against neighbours. Those who did were sorted and had to move away.

Scousers showed humour in the face of adversity;

Determination in the face of hardship

Never-say-die attitudes

Support for the under-dog.

When faced with a problem, they recognised the cause and dealt with it, not attacked the symptoms.

The people generated solutions instead of waiting for someone else to do so.

A proud and cheerful welcoming people

Has it all turned to paranoia and xenophobia ?

The Team that chose me

Nearly fifty years ago, I became aware of a team called Liverpool. It had always been there, I was just too young to have noticed it before.


Dur um der um de dumpty dum de diddly dumpty dum…… Sports Report, the smell of a roast dinner getting close to cooked…..  Strange names Gateshead, Accrington Stanley, Hamilton Academicals.

Highs and lows of emotion when the Everton and Liverpool scores came through.
Mostly lows for my Dad; we were having a terrible time. And I never then or in his long life after as I grew up heard him say anything disrespectful about LFC , its managers or its players. He only ever had constructive criticism.

Shortly after, either my Dad or various relatives coming home or calling in after whatever match they’d been to.

Disaster, Liverpool relegated.

In the face of the onslaught from the blues, my Dad was a rock of defiance; arguing superiority for LFC in the face of fact reason and common-sense. He was obsessed.

It was much easier to be a blue, but even then I was an obstinate bar steward. I didn’t realise it then, but I was hooked. I began to listen to the radio and although we weren’t mentioned much, when we were I listened. The old Scouse love of defending the under-dog had kicked in. The never-say-die determination had kicked in.
 I didn’t know that then; but what the hell I was only 5 .

It appeared then that kids didn’t generally get to go to the match (In the way of boozing, you couldn’t take women into many pubs in those days let alone kids)
So I listened and watched and waited, and waited, and waited.

Life is full of strange circles within circles. At the time all this was happening, my wife was going to football matches with her dad, who was chairman of a lovely little club and sometimes the manager would return home with them for an evening meal. Like all the kids of the time, every adult earned the honorary title of Uncle or Aunty. How I envy her when she recalls “Uncle Bill” manager of Workington Town.
What I would have given SHANKLY!.

That Everton was THE team was indisputable. They were in what we now know as the Premiership. They were always there or thereabouts in Championship or Cup shakeouts. Liverpool languished in the old Second division seemingly stuck forever doomed to come third and fail to reach the promise that they always flattered to deceive with.

Dad got very excited about this man who meant nothing to me then SHANKLY. I understood he’d been a very good player and although he had managed a few clubs, he had no real track record but the thing that people got excited about was his sheer positiveness and enthusiasm.

January 21st 1961 (Thank you God; thank you Mr Pead for the date) a long war of attrition won my dad takes me to my first match, age 10 ½ . Infield Road end, Paddock side, top corner.

            Slater
      Byrne            Moran

   Milne         White         Leishman

Lewis      Hunt      Hickson   Harrower   Morrisey

No subs, No diving, No poncing about with niggling digs and tugs. 90 minutes flat out football, no quarter given or taken. Bookings rare, sending-off almost unheard of!
Proper football, proper formation…. But I digress

Opponents Ipswich Town 33401 in attendance (I was that 1).

On the way to the match we stop in one of my Dads pubs. He sits down to a game of cards with his mates and I’m stood in the corner with a pint of shandy made with real ale! Big man! I looked around and saw a load of Bobbies enter the pub. Full uniform , truncheons handcuffs- the lot.

No escape for me! I could see the headlines “Under-aged drinker age 10”

The lead bobby was well on the way to being 7ft tall and a sergeant.
 Hi son, he said to me.

Move over Vic he said to my Dad and demanded to be dealt in. PHEW!

The match was a cracker, one of their players was injured and hobbled around a bit, then took off like a scalded cat in pursuit of the ball and bang 1-0 down. Then we laid siege and eventually my first football hero scored the equaliser. Kevin Lewis. He could run around with that ball glued to his foot for half an hour beat everyone and miss the open goal. He was so close to being a football legend!
The match ended 1-1

I went to a couple more matches that  season but the only thing I remember is that my Dad’s hero Billy Liddell played his last game earlier in the season, and although I’m told that I did see him in a reserve match, I don’t remember.

But Boy was I bitten by this LFC thing, with the Shankly revolution and the glory years to come

We failed again, 3rd in Div 2, but this was fun.

I used to look back on the glorious past and wonder what it must have been like in the good old days , cup finals championships. It couldn’t return could it? Could it? You bet it could.
We were so far behind Everton in the derby match tables that it was schoolboy fantasy that we could ever catch them up. We’d have to dominate derbies for years, almost forever. Couldn’t happen could it. Could it? You bet I enjoyed every single minute, but first we had to get back to the top division.

The rest is history. Loads of people will say that they used to go to Anfield. Well let me tell you the average attendance was 33,000 , a few thousand would be away supporters so say 28,000 was the true average. More than half of them will now be dead (we are talking 43 years ago here), so draw your own conclusions.

All Scouse crowd. You are taking the Piss.
There were Irish, Scots, Welsh and the London based supporters even that long ago (Hey haven’t we been here before?).
Not as many as now, but then there were more Scousers in Liverpool then.

Shortly after we got back up the attendances rose to an average 40,000 and someone wrote Shankly could put out a team of 11 pigs with Liverpool shirts on and 40,000 would turn out and cheer them on.

And in those days, every match was a delight of skilful attacking fluid football wasn’t it. The hell it was, I swear Shanks put the 11 pigs out a fair few times!

True Liverpool fans stuck through it good days and bad. They learnt their history. They saw history made.

They envied the blues, they stuck through the ridicule, they bought Shankly’s philosophy “do your talking on the pitch”, and they overtook everyone

We learnt to sing.

No we learnt a creed- a way of thinking- a way of life.

You’ll Never Walk Alone is not a song. It is the essence of a True Scouser (No matter where he’s / she’s born bred or billeted)

© Vic Ashcroft June 2004.





« Last Edit: October 8, 2004, 06:17:41 PM by Zappa »
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Offline Filler.

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, The team that chose me
« Reply #1 on: June 9, 2004, 09:39:15 PM »
fabulous read Zappa.  :)

Offline Mottman

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, The team that chose me
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2004, 12:00:43 AM »



The very highest support.

“My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in. Fire in your belly comes from pride and passion in wearing the red shirt. We don’t need to motivate players because each of them is responsible for the performance of the team as a whole. The status of Liverpool’s players keeps them motivated. For a player to be good enough to play for Liverpool, he must be prepared to run through a brick wall for me then come out fighting on the other side. The fans here are the greatest in the land. They know the game and they know what they want to see. The people on the Kop make you feel great – yet humble. I’m just one of the people who stands on the Kop. They think the same as I do, and I think the same as they do. It’s a kind of marriage of people who like each other. At a football club, there’s a holy trinity – the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques. Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple. I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her. A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are. In my time at Anfield we always said we had the best two teams on Merseyside, Liverpool and Liverpool reserves. Above all, I would like to be remembered as a man who was selfless, who strove and worried so that others could share the glory, and who built up a family of people who could hold their heads up high and say ‘We’re Liverpool’. If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.”
« Last Edit: June 10, 2004, 12:30:58 AM by Mottman »
A boy from the Mersey and a Son of Shankly.

Offline IrishRed

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, The team that chose me
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2004, 12:08:09 AM »
thank you
LFC SHOULD NEVER PLAY ON THE 15TH APRIL, NOT THIS YEAR, NEXT YEAR OR ANY OTHER YEAR

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Offline redannie

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2004, 08:52:01 AM »
Thank you for an excellent posting.I'm an exiled scouser who has been hooked on our team for about the same length of time but with a poorer memory of results - too many senior moments these days! However my daughters have had to put up with too many comments of the like of " You should support your local team" .They were given no choice, if they wanted to go to games then they came with mum to Anfield or not at all and like mum they love Liverpool FC and are fiercely protective of our "lads" in public. If the local team argument were followed then I would have turned coat at least five times as I followed work around the country but loyalty counts for a lot in our household. Anyway once you start supporting LFC how can you stop? the team gets under your skin. Can't say I'm impressed with some of the "fans" (definition - fickle followers of fashion? Where are they all in the early cup rounds when we play unfashionable teams?) who moan on the airways and boo at the games. Keep your disappointments within the family please. Follow the club with pride and remember that the past only takes on a rosy glow because we choose to forget the bad times - some of us are long enough in the tooth to remember dross as well as the glory.
   

Offline ecmdtan

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2004, 08:53:31 AM »
Another article that truly fills you with pride and humility, all at the same time.  Thank you.
On April 15th, 89.........What should have been a joyous time...........Ninety six friends, we all shall miss.........And all the Kopites want justice...................JUSTICE!!!

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2004, 09:10:45 AM »
I'm from Malaysia, does dat make me a scouse then? Anyhow there is a support in supporter and I am definately one

Offline Clayton Moore rides again ©

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2004, 12:18:23 PM »
Another article that truly fills you with pride and humility, all at the same time.  Thank you.

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Offline wellsie82

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2004, 12:45:52 PM »
a fantastic read, really enjoyed that  :)
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Offline RedBoywonder

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2004, 04:12:51 PM »
Great stuff.
Justice for the 96.

Offline Mike 88

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2004, 09:58:10 PM »
great read.
We are the champions
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Offline Maz

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2004, 10:00:50 PM »
great post Zappa :wave
Carragher's bit on the side.

Offline Aidan_B

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2004, 11:11:43 AM »
Superb piece.   Still doesn't make me scouse though  :'(
« Last Edit: July 27, 2004, 09:00:50 PM by Aidan_B »
See you on hear later then, Aidan. :wave
Too busy with trying to start   EnviroBuild to concentrate much on football.  :-(

Offline Vinny_

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2004, 05:45:51 PM »
Its something I have wondered for some time as I was born in Liverpool (mill rd maternity), my mother (ma) lived on anfield rd but since about 8 months old I have lived outside liverpool - but always on merseyside. I do not have a "scouse" accent, well not one that a "scouser" would call scouse, more merseyside.

I imagine most scousers at the match and those who do not know my background would assume I was a wool. Its quite funny when someone born and bred in say skem, lancashire but who has a scouse accent calls me a wool, particularly at anfield, excuse me mate but I think my "scouse" blood line is a bit purer than yours, its just that I sound like a wool ;D




Offline Maggie May

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2004, 09:39:36 PM »
Excellent post Zappa - wonderful shared memories.  And Vinny - forget the "wool" nonsense - a stupidity promoted by ignorant people - its what's in your heart that counts son.
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Offline cyn

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #15 on: July 8, 2004, 02:48:10 AM »
Superb post, Zappa.

Offline okcomputer

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2004, 12:29:10 AM »
a scouser is someone born and bred in liverpool i would say, (and you don't have to be a scouser to be a liverpool fan) M'sian Scouse

Quote from: mrsphilthefish on 20/10/07 at 04:28:32 PM
A red jumped up when we scored and some bluenose jumped up and said "fuck off out you. How did you get a ticket in here you fucking red gobshite?"
To which the red replied "coz YOU couldn't sell your tickets to your fucking own, they even went on fucking general sale for fucks sake. So I put s

Offline Maggie May

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2004, 07:10:39 PM »
a scouser is someone born and bred in liverpool i would say, (and you don't have to be a scouser to be a liverpool fan) M'sian Scouse

Damn right.
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline Bren1892

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2004, 08:32:06 PM »
That was really good Zappa, I enjoyed reading it. :wave
YNWA
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Offline kopend

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2004, 09:55:04 PM »
a scouser is somebody born and bred in merseyside, and that has lived there long enough from birth to understand were they are from

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2004, 02:30:48 PM »
So by that logic im Brazillian tonight  ;)

Offline liva4eva

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #21 on: August 9, 2004, 12:47:01 AM »
absolutely brilliant read
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Offline Chris.

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #22 on: August 9, 2004, 01:00:59 AM »
Good Stuff. 

Offline moptop46

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2004, 11:19:42 PM »
Couldnt be arsed reading it all!
I was born in Walton Breck Road!
I am a scouser!
Say no more!

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2004, 09:02:29 PM »
Couldnt be arsed reading it all!
I was born in Walton Breck Road!
I am a scouser!
Say no more!

The "Couldn't be arsed" bit  speaks eloquently upon your behalf
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Offline Zappa

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2004, 11:40:55 PM »
I agree with the couldn't be arsed comment bit
There ain't no money in poetry
That's what sets the poet free
I've had all the freedom I can stand

Offline Red_in_Holland

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2004, 03:24:02 AM »
Superb, mate.  Top quality post.

Thanks,

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Offline Jimbo.

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2004, 01:40:19 PM »
Brilliant Vic.
Quote from: Dan_L
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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2004, 09:28:34 AM »
Hi,

Thanks you very much for such an great read.

"Opponents Ipswich Town 33401 in attendance (I was that 1)."

:)
We have to be like Rocky

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #29 on: September 5, 2004, 05:00:43 AM »

You’ll Never Walk Alone is not a song. It is the essence of a True Scouser (No matter where he’s/she’s born bred or billeted)


DAMN RIGHT!!!  we even accept applications from Mancs ;)  

great post mate, loved reading it!

Offline cynicaloldgit

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #30 on: September 8, 2004, 04:18:45 PM »

There were Irish, Scots, Welsh and the London based supporters even that long ago (Hey haven’t we been here before?).


Being a Londoner myself, I get really pissed off when some so-called fans, seemingly oblivious to the history of Liverpool Football Club, ask for a return to some mythical golden age when it was only those born within earshot of Anfield who populated the terraces. I am not a scouser and would never claim to be. But I fell in love with the city of Liverpool when I first visited it, twenty-five years ago, and my passion for the club is undying.

A great read, Zappa. Thank you.
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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2007, 12:31:00 PM »
bill shankly was not born here... but he was one of us...

you bet he was...!

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t.i.m...

Offline woof

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2007, 05:10:17 AM »
bill shankly was not born here... but he was one of us...

you bet he was...!

Lemmo...
Very good point. There are many who have come and built the club as to what it is today who are not born & bred Scousers but they contributed nonetheless.

Offline all_funkt_up

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2007, 10:21:09 AM »
Great read. Sat on hold in work reading that. Brilliant mate.
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Offline the invisible man

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2007, 03:04:51 AM »
 :waveLIving now in Brisbane Australia, making plans to come back home...

miss the dirty filthy old place and the the wonderful dirty filthy people...(kidding...)

it's the only other place in the world i'd like to be right now..

Lemmo...
t.i.m...

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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2007, 04:22:15 AM »
what a crackin read, can't believe i've never seen it before, ta!
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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2007, 10:02:30 AM »
Proper decent read that mate.

A scouser is someone who is born in Liverpool and has that way about them. You can just tell, when I'm on holiday you can see us from fucking miles away!

A lot of people who have contributed to our club haven't been from here. You don't have to be from here to be a true Liverpool fan.
"I'm a people man. Only the people matter".
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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #37 on: May 1, 2007, 12:17:34 AM »
Good stuff mate....great times with many more to come!
Some people on here talk about our history but know fuck all and 'couldn't be arsed' finding out.
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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2007, 04:20:31 AM »
Great Read, and I can say that I'm a supporter of a great team, I wasn't born in liverpool, neither England, but they choose me, and the love I feel for this team grows every day.
Thank you Liverpool FC!!!! ;)
You'll Never Walk Alone is not a song. It is the essence of a True Scouser (No matter where He/she's born, bred or billeted)
« Last Edit: January 7, 2018, 03:33:37 AM by Lady_brandybuck »
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Re: What is a Scouser? The place I grew up in, the team that chose me.
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2007, 12:42:19 PM »
you can't buy what we go..

you can't make it...

you can't see it...

only those who have got it know what it is...

and I got it... ;D

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I am a Liverpudlian...

and I come from the Spion Kop...

Lemmo...
t.i.m...