Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[Lush is the best medicine...]

'I'm a Marxist...'

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lCcFjRhiaw

'straight talking, honest politics'

[Millie]

I'll keep telling those whose only narrative is what a twat JC is; he's ruined the Party; he's guilty of leftish cronyism; couldn't run a piss-up in you know where; and an absolute plethora of so many other negatives they are too many to recount here to fuck off. The reason why I do? Rome is burning and the Vandals are marching on proudly waving Union Jacks as they do so of course. Yet those who say they absolutely are enemies of these fucking Vandal-Tories (you know them, they're the ones who aided and abetted by MSM and the shady faces who fund them are grinding us into the ground) can only seem to muster your concentrated fire on the only hope of a political movement which can stop them.

To all of you who are disenchanted with JC - and you individually and collectively know well who you are - if you are seriously opposed and sincerely want the Vandal-Tories gone and you all clearly KNOW what's at stake for all of the nation if they are given another 5 years to finish their demolition of our welfare state - I say this.

Set aside your scorn and unite to ensure that your scorn is poured out on the real enemy. Remember the old saying The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
If you won't do that to rid this nation of this despicable scourge then you are no enemy of the Vandal-Tories and are well-deserving of being told to fuck off.

I have seen plenty of those in here that dislike Corbyn but will be voting Labour.

Please do not give me abuse and tell me to "fuck off" - you aren't going to win over anyone with that attitude.

[goalrushatgoodison]

It's just the words ill judged I disagree with and it's actually important. If we look whats happened during Corbyns reign then calling a vote of no confidence was completely justified.
History may say the vote of no confidence was doomed from the start but I don't think it will say it was ill judged,it will reflect badly on Corbyn for refusing to accept realty.

I've not much skin in this particular game so don't tend to post much in here but I do have a strong view on the vote of no confidence and expressed it here at the time.

The vote of no confidence was not so much ill judged as a strategic error of monumental proportion on the part of the parliamentary party. They thought Corbyn would just exit stage left. Instead, in an entrenched post Brexit vote atmosphere, it was seen by those who supported Corbyn ( and many others I expect) as opportunistic, motivated by individual's self interest and ultimately devisive.

A more patient approach would, in my strong opinion, have removed Corbyn. The focus should have been on his uncommitted performance during the Brexit campaign and nothing else. Instead it was on his overall leadership and the direction of the party in general. An internal review of his lukewarm effort in the Brexit campaign ( I think he hedged his bets, because he thought NO would win anyhow, and he would not upset his core support many of whom are euro sceptic) followed by a leadership challenge purely on that issue was a much more focussed and dare I say parliamentary way to go about it. Instead it's a classic case of act in haste, repent at leisure.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Burgon being an arse as ever on Sunday politics

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I've not much skin in this particular game so don't tend to post much in here but I do have a strong view on the vote of no confidence and expressed it here at the time.

I think you're right that it came too soon, and wasn't well thought out. All it has done, sadly, is give more ammunition to the Momentum lot and their 'chicken coup' line, the 'if the party was behind him' argument where the PLP are blamed for all the party's ills.

[zero zero]

I'll keep telling those whose only narrative is what a twat JC is; he's ruined the Party; he's guilty of leftish cronyism; couldn't run a piss-up in you know where; and an absolute plethora of so many other negatives they are too many to recount here to fuck off.

How much longer are we going to indulge this abusive Manc?

I'll be voting Labour in a safe Tory seat, just like you. It'll make no difference to the election, so get off your fucking high-horse.

[TepidT2O]

Burgon being an arse as ever on Sunday politics

He's just rubbish..

I wouldn't hire him if I interviewed him for a job at work, yet I'm expected to see him running the country?

People aren't stupid,  they may say and do stupid things,  but generally they realise when people are crap.

He's just crap.  Abort is crap, Corbyn is crap and McDonnell is a crap Marxist.

Please.

Can't we just have people who are mostly not utterly crap? Is it that much to ask?

[Red-Soldier]

'I'm a Marxist...'

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lCcFjRhiaw

There's nothing wrong with that, apart from he's the shadow chancellor of the main opposition in the UK, who's vying to be elected in government.   

I'm guessing that Marxism isn't very popular amoungst the electorate at the moment, even though many of his ideas are pretty sound.

I have many socialist and Marxist views, but I'm also liberal and pragmatic. 

[oldfordie]

I've not much skin in this particular game so don't tend to post much in here but I do have a strong view on the vote of no confidence and expressed it here at the time.

The vote of no confidence was not so much ill judged as a strategic error of monumental proportion on the part of the parliamentary party. They thought Corbyn would just exit stage left. Instead, in an entrenched post Brexit vote atmosphere, it was seen by those who supported Corbyn ( and many others I expect) as opportunistic, motivated by individual's self interest and ultimately devisive.

A more patient approach would, in my strong opinion, have removed Corbyn. The focus should have been on his uncommitted performance during the Brexit campaign and nothing else. Instead it was on his overall leadership and the direction of the party in general. An internal review of his lukewarm effort in the Brexit campaign ( I think he hedged his bets, because he thought NO would win anyhow, and he would not upset his core support many of whom are euro sceptic) followed by a leadership challenge purely on that issue was a much more focussed and dare I say parliamentary way to go about it. Instead it's a classic case of act in haste, repent at leisure.

I think you have to remember how high feelings were running at the time, he had shown nothing to give anyone any confidence in his ability to lead the party. he was a liability. I disagree over Corbyn only thinking of not upsetting the core support, Corbyn was in a very positive mood after the referendum result. he tried to persuade Labour supporters to to be more positive over leaving the EU. this is 2 days after the result,he was completely oblivious to the fact that millions of labour voters were distraught after the referendum result. I think the Labour MPs acted out of urgency more than anger, he has to go now or not only are we going to be totally wiped out in a GE, he actually helped to bring this Brexit about and he wants it to happen. we now know he whipped his MPs to make it happen.we now know labour are going to loose many seats, I dont think it matter's when the vote of confidence was taken, Corbyn would have stayed. that reflects more badly on Corbyn than the PLP.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

There's nothing wrong with that, apart from he's the shadow chancellor of the main opposition in the UK, who's vying to be elected in government.   

I'm guessing that Marxism isn't very popular amoungst the electorate at the moment, even though many of his ideas are pretty sound.

I have many socialist and Marxist views, but I'm also liberal and pragmatic. 

its him admitting it years ago but not admitting it when he is shadow chancellor, largely because he knows how badly it plays with the electorate

[goalrushatgoodison]

I think you have to remember how high feelings were running at the time, he had shown nothing to give anyone any confidence in his ability to lead the party. he was a liability. I disagree over Corbyn only thinking of not upsetting the core support, Corbyn was in a very positive mood after the referendum result. he tried to persuade Labour supporters to to be more positive over leaving the EU. this is 2 days after the result,he was completely oblivious to the fact that millions of labour voters were distraught after the referendum result. I think the Labour MPs acted out of urgency more than anger, he has to go now or not only are we going to be totally wiped out in a GE, he actually helped to bring this Brexit about and he wants it to happen. we now know he whipped his MPs to make it happen.we now know labour are going to loose many seats, I dont think it matter's when the vote of confidence was taken, Corbyn would have stayed. that reflects more badly on Corbyn than the PLP.

Giving my opinion on why he was so uncommitted in the referendum campaign was a little superfluous to the general point I was making! It doesn't matter why he didn't turn up, it just matters that he didn't.

An internal review would have brought this to the fore. There is no scenario in which Corbyn would come well out of that review. He simply wasn't seen in the places where the leader of a main political party should be seen during a referendum campaign - front and centre. In those circumstances, I'm not sure he could have stayed. Instead the leadership debate was essentially a re-run of his original victory.  I do acknowledge that actually getting an internal review may not have been plain sailing but I also know that the way they went about it was never going to remove him, I said that at the time.

[Bobsackamano]

Just listening to John Mcdonnell on BBC news now.

In many ways I agree with much of what he says but it's just so depressing. It's all about how bad the tories are and how everyone is being held back in one way or another by government. There was barely any mention of any policy it was just moaning.

Where's the inspiration? I liked his anecdote about going back to education but that was placed in a sea of misery so was lost.

I think he was about to move onto policy bur the editors of the news just moved on, they had already given him a good 10 minutes by then. Pretty useless.

[classycarra]

Now taxing people more who have a greater wage is not the Labour Way?

I'm genuinely done with this thread, you are all fucking mental. Those who earn more should pay more.

Trickle-down economics is a sham. It doesn't work.

Looks like you and Andy both misunderstood.

[redmark]

Just listening to John Mcdonnell on BBC news now.

In many ways I agree with much of what he says but it's just so depressing. It's all about how bad the tories are and how everyone is being held back in one way or another by government. There was barely any mention of any policy it was just moaning.

Where's the inspiration? I liked his anecdote about going back to education but that was placed in a sea of misery so was lost.

I think he was about to move onto policy bur the editors of the news just moved on, they had already given him a good 10 minutes by then. Pretty useless.

Fucking mainstream media, eh?

[classycarra]

He's just rubbish..

I wouldn't hire him if I interviewed him for a job at work, yet I'm expected to see him running the country?

People aren't stupid,  they may say and do stupid things,  but generally they realise when people are crap.

He's just crap.  Abort is crap, Corbyn is crap and McDonnell is a crap Marxist.

Please.

Can't we just have people who are mostly not utterly crap? Is it that much to ask?

He got hired because of his dad. And allegedly because he threatened to run for a different party. Another one of Corbyn's cronies.

Burgon is the man who compared Corbyn to Martin Luther King, the absolute bellwhiff

[classycarra]

How much longer are we going to indulge this abusive Manc?

I'll be voting Labour in a safe Tory seat, just like you. It'll make no difference to the election, so get off your fucking high-horse.

It's a good question, but as long as he's not abusing individuals I quite enjoy the perspective he offers.

He knows full well that most if not all of us have declared we'll be voting Labour despite our critiques of Corbyn's leadership, yet he still wants to shut down our discussions. He doesn't just want us to vote Labour, he wants us to be fanatics like him.

I won't use the c-word, but the similarities are very clear. No bad mouthing of the leadership. No bad mouthing of the movement. No leaving the movement (and if you do, you can't come back). Fear of outside views that may persuade some to leave. Suspicion of conspiring by outside forces like the media and other critics etc.

As someone who strives to be rational and evidence based in their work, I won't be relenting to Johnno's impassioned and hyperbolic rants. The point you stop thinking and critiquing, and just submit, is when bad things happen in politics

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Bet all the Tories who live in Middle England that post on the thread are freaking out about this Corbyn banner.

Unfortunately the city of Liverpool says different - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/echo-readers-back-jeremy-corbyn-12998187

Yep, we're all Tories from Middle England if we're not prepared to back Corbyn 100% - depsite the fact, as you'd know if you'd read the thread, about 99% of even the people questioning JC are still going to vote for his party anyway.

Pure Orwellian - no shades of grey, just black and white.

Oh, and the Echo doesn't really speak for Liverpool the city, its an online poll for a start, accessible by anyone in the world - the paper isn't even printed in the city, and it's part of the Mirror group - as you can see in other threads on this very site, it has a very low reputation for its almost unusable website alone. This post was brought to you by an obtrusive moving popup advertisement

[filopastry]

I'll be voting Labour as well in a safe Tory seat, don't get me wrong though if the LibDems were running in second place in the seat here though I would vote for them without hesitation.

[Robinred]

It's a good question, but as long as he's not abusing individuals I quite enjoy the perspective he offers.

He knows full well that most if not all of us have declared we'll be voting Labour despite our critiques of Corbyn's leadership, yet he still wants to shut down our discussions. He doesn't just want us to vote Labour, he wants us to be fanatics like him.

I won't use the c-word, but the similarities are very clear. No bad mouthing of the leadership. No bad mouthing of the movement.No leaving the movement (and if you do, you can't come back). Fear of outside views that may persuade some to leave. Suspicion of conspiring by outside forces like the media and other critics etc.

As someone who strives to be rational and evidence based in their work, I won't be relenting to Johnno's impassioned and hyperbolic rants. The point you stop thinking and critiquing, and just submit, is when bad things happen in politics

Jehovah's Witnesses

[TepidT2O]

"I'm going to be the first Socialist Chancellor in the tradition of the Labour party”

A shitty comment taking a cheap dig at every other labour chancellor for not being proper labour.

Exactly why he won't be chancellor.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

A shitty comment taking a cheap dig at every other labour chancellor for not being proper labour.

Exactly why he won't be chancellor.

i wouldn't say exactly why, more 'yet another reason why'

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Well done guys, hope those who did it enjoy the fans being a laughing stock. Should have no complaints if they get banned.

[classycarra]

Well done guys, hope those who did it enjoy the fans being a laughing stock. Should have no complaints if they get banned.

Humiliating for the guy who made it and brought it. Hopefully doesn't tar the rest of us with his stupidity

Has anyone checked Hansard to see if Corbyn ever spoke about the Justice campaign in parliament? He's been an MP since the early 80s, and is ostensibly a football fan. I suspect he's never been concerned. Attaching him to a politically neutral campaign that actually achieved something, unlike him, is flagrantly shameful. Would have been more palatable if it had Burnham and Rotherham on it, instead of these two c*nts grids.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Can only find a fleeting reference from December 2012 in a speech

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2012-12-18b.713.0&s=Hillsborough+speaker%3A10133#g773.1

I hope that the House understands the depth of feeling among many eminent people outside the House who have spent their lives campaigning for justice—against all the odds—and sometimes achieved it. Those who campaigned on Hillsborough eventually achieved justice, as did those who campaigned for the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four. I do not want us to create yet another situation in which future miscarriages of justice can take place

Mcdonnell has a couple of times prior to 2015

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?q=Hillsborough&pid=10383

[brownie 09]

Should take your own owen smith banner laughter. Or have a day off

[Nobody cares what phone you have and that you are using the free version of Tapatalk]

[classycarra]

Should take your own owen smith banner laughter. Or have a day off

[Nobody cares what phone you have and that you are using the free version of Tapatalk]

Why would I do that? I'm against shit banners.

Oh, you have no argument so you're just resorting to us and them comments? Got it

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Should take your own owen smith banner laughter. Or have a day off

[Nobody cares what phone you have and that you are using the free version of Tapatalk]

maybe you should have a look at my previous posts on banners with politicians on, not just IRA sympathiser losers like those two

[JohnnoWhite]

How much longer are we going to indulge this abusive Manc?

I'll be voting Labour in a safe Tory seat, just like you. It'll make no difference to the election, so get off your fucking high-horse.

I know my vote won't make a flyshit piece of difference here. Neither will switching to the Lib Dem here.

So you think this abusive Manc is being indulged do you? Aw diddums. How about responding directly to the thrust of my "abusive" post for starters?

But FFS don't spit your dummy out and come with this kind of nonsense. If you can't take it don't give it!

[Skeeve]

How about you not tell people to fuck off just because they are capable of distinguishing between the party and the leader of the party, it is completely possible for people to support the former while disliking the latter without them being tories.

[redmark]

I know my vote won't make a flyshit piece of difference here. Neither will switching to the Lib Dem here.

So you think this abusive Manc is being indulged do you? Aw diddums. How about responding directly to the thrust of my "abusive" post for starters?

But FFS don't spit your dummy out and come with this kind of nonsense. If you can't take it don't give it!

How about you replying to posts that do address yours?

[classycarra]

I know my vote won't make a flyshit piece of difference here. Neither will switching to the Lib Dem here.

So you think this abusive Manc is being indulged do you? Aw diddums. How about responding directly to the thrust of my "abusive" post for starters?

But FFS don't spit your dummy out and come with this kind of nonsense. If you can't take it don't give it!

Oh the irony! It hurts!

From a constant subject changer and dummy spitter! People so frequently lash out accusations that bear a similarity to their behaviour

[JohnnoWhite]

Oh the irony! It hurts!

From a constant subject changer and dummy spitter! People so frequently lash out accusations that bear a similarity to their behaviour

Who the fuck are you talking about eh? I addressed my comments re who are the real enemy in this election. I asked a straight question as to whether our absolute KEY priority is to defeat the Tories and all I get back is some whingeing bollux about how much longer do we need to indulge this abusive Manc. Like appealing to the ref when you've dived! Now you say I'M spitting my dummy out!! So if you think YOU know the answer why don't you offer your answer to the same question which Zero zero ducked?

[JohnnoWhite]

How about you not tell people to fuck off just because they are capable of distinguishing between the party and the leader of the party, it is completely possible for people to support the former while disliking the latter without them being tories.

For what it's worth, I focussed on the real challenge to the nation on June 8th. I specifically said put to one side any reservations any of you might have re JC and consider who on this thread, for all our in-fighting, sees the Vandal-Tories as our primary enemy - well enemy doesn't quite capture it - in truth they are OUR public enemy No1.

I got nothing of any specific response back except a cringeing appeal to the refs in here. And you wonder why I'm fucked off? Tell you what's probably best thing for me to do and that's to leave you all to dissect and dismantle the only vehicle that will prevent the Vandal's riding back into Rome on June 9th. I tried the debating way and got slung a deaf 'un.

Clearly JC is the enemy of the nation. Well it stands to reason doesn't it? After all he's responsible for the on-going theft of our NHS, the imposition of the bedroom tax, the theft of the benefit support to the disabled, ATOS declaring sick and dying people fit for work, firefighters being sacked as unproductive, nurses being robbed blind on 2 fronts via removal of their training bursary and 1% pay cap held firmly in place irrespective of erosion in real terms of over 10% since the Toryboys snatched complete control of the reins. 

No doubt you'll have a celebration party on Friday 9th June when Maggie May surfs her way back for another 5 miserable and oh so punitive years. I will remember how it was made possible even if you choose to forget.   

[Millie]

Johnno

Grow the fuck up

Thanks

No one in here will be celebrating if the Tories win - which you know full well.

Countless posters here have said they will be voting Labour (or in a few cases Lib dem if that will oust the Tory).

[TepidT2O]

For what it's worth, I focussed on the real challenge to the nation on June 8th. I specifically said put to one side any reservations any of you might have re JC and consider who on this thread, for all our in-fighting, sees the Vandal-Tories as our primary enemy - well enemy doesn't quite capture it - in truth they are OUR public enemy No1.

I got nothing of any specific response back except a cringeing appeal to the refs in here. And you wonder why I'm fucked off? Tell you what's probably best thing for me to do and that's to leave you all to dissect and dismantle the only vehicle that will prevent the Vandal's riding back into Rome on June 9th. I tried the debating way and got slung a deaf 'un.

Clearly JC is the enemy of the nation. Well it stands to reason doesn't it? After all he's responsible for the on-going theft of our NHS, the imposition of the bedroom tax, the theft of the benefit support to the disabled, ATOS declaring sick and dying people fit for work, firefighters being sacked as unproductive, nurses being robbed blind on 2 fronts via removal of their training bursary and 1% pay cap held firmly in place irrespective of erosion in real terms of over 10% since the Toryboys snatched complete control of the reins. 

No doubt you'll have a celebration party on Friday 9th June when Maggie May surfs her way back for another 5 miserable and oh so punitive years. I will remember how it was made possible even if you choose to forget.   

Given that all you mention about the tories is absolutely true, then why is Corbyn up to 19% behind in the polls.

It's not because of a few people on a football forum.  It's not because the public are stupid.  It's not because the public are vile tories....

It's Corbyn.  It's McDonnell.  It's Abort.

That's why people are angry.  That's why these issues won't get addressed.  That's why the tories will continue to cut, axe and reap the money for their mates.  That's why people in here are angry.  We think that HE is the reason for that.  You don't, and that's absolutely your prerogative, and I know you say that for the best of reasons.
But his gang of Marxists, incompetents and fools are the real issue here.

May will ride back for five years because of Corbyn

Because of the people who voted for him.

They were monumentally wrong, the Labour Party membership didn't once stop to think of the mandate they might seek from labour voters.

[TepidT2O]

And what is worse, it seems they no longer even care about wining the bloody election. 

Winning was never an ambition.  Only hanging on to the corpse of this once great party is.

[Millie]

And what is worse, it seems they no longer even care about wining the bloody election. 

Winning was never an ambition.  Only hanging on to the corpse of this once great party is.

Jesus Wept

[filopastry]

And what is worse, it seems they no longer even care about wining the bloody election. 

Winning was never an ambition.  Only hanging on to the corpse of this once great party is.

I'm quite proud of making this prediction regarding vote share a few days ago!

[TepidT2O]

Jesus Wept

Indeed.  They care not for the poor.  They care only about their own pathetic power grab.

It's failed.  Now piss off back to the Marxists of the SWP where you belong.

The real Labour Party cared about the poor, cared about winning power to address the issues affecting the country, cared about jobs, wealth and the economy.

This lot could give a fuck.  They've no plan, no ability, and no fucking idea what to do if they did win.

All they have done their whole careers is deride the success of their own party.  They've never once had to back their cheap and tawdry words up with actions that might make them come true.

But for two years, they've had the chance.  They've been fucking useless.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

And what is worse, it seems they no longer even care about wining the bloody election. 

Winning was never an ambition.  Only hanging on to the corpse of this once great party is.

shouldnt really shock this