Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[Lord Roger Hunt]

Maybe I've missed something but can anyone explain why Tom Watson isn't being considered? 

He was a lion during the Murdoch press inquiry and he's had to tread a difficult path as Deputy. I've met him a couple of times and there's nothing 'fake' about him, he's an honest, straightforward sort of bloke, with a fast wit and great sense of humour - I'd love to see him take May on at the Dispatch box.

Sincere question - what's wrong with Tom being our next Leader or am I missing something obvious (probably am, admittedly)?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Maybe I've missed something but can anyone explain why Tom Watson isn't being considered? 

He was a lion during the Murdoch press inquiry and he's had to tread a difficult path as Deputy. I've met him a couple of times and there's nothing 'fake' about him, he's an honest, straightforward sort of bloke, with a fast wit and great sense of humour - I'd love to see him take May on at the Dispatch box.

Sincere question - what's wrong with Tom being our next Leader or am I missing something obvious (probably am, admittedly)?

He has all the charisma of a penile wart. He's allowed himself to be associated with the calamity of the current leadership by continuing as Deputy Leader. The leftists hate him as betrayer in chief.

In other words, he has precious little constituency within the party on either side, and is already a washout with the wider electorate.

[rafathegaffa83]

1983, 2015

The far left take over the party...  did anyone ever stop to look at the British public?

Did anyone ever stop to ask themesekces whether they wanted trotskyists marxists running the country?

Because they don't.  They never have done, and they never will do.  So why does the party persist with these liabilities?

The people just aren't ready for the revolution this time around. Or so they'll say. Like the Mensheviks in Revolutionary Russia, they'll be discussing their theoretical version of socialism, while being oblivious to a much greater danger. By calling the election when she did May and her advisors have managed to strengthen their position during a time of crisis: swallowing up the Kippers by absorbing their mandate and helping to splinter a bizarrely pro-Brexit Labour party who in the search for the UKIP and far-left vote will do anything distance itself from the methods and policies that got them elected years ago in the first place. Leaving the remaining pro-Remain elements of the Labour party to be portioned off by regional nationalist parties, the Lib Dems and electorally insignificant single issue parties like the Greens.                       

[Red Beret]

Labour aren't going to lose this election because of a few thousand disgruntled Labour supporters turning their back on the party because they don't like Jeremy Corbyn.  They're going to lose it because Corbyn's insipid and incompetent leadership has completely turned off the electorate at large; with hundreds of thousands of floating voters remaining unconvinced that Labour represent a realistic alternative, or that Jeremy is a PM in waiting.

If Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott resigned today, Labour would probably surge five points in the polls.  But they wont because they're too stubborn to admit that they might be the problem.  They prefer to blame it on stupid voters failing to see how wonderful they are, the way their supporters do.

[Robinred]

Labour aren't going to lose this election because of a few thousand disgruntled Labour supporters turning their back on the party because they don't like Jeremy Corbyn.  They're going to lose it because Corbyn's insipid and incompetent leadership has completely turned off the electorate at large; with hundreds of thousands of floating voters remaining unconvinced that Labour represent a realistic alternative, or that Jeremy is a PM in waiting.

If Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott resigned today, Labour would probably surge five points in the polls.  But they wont because they're too stubborn to admit that they might be the problem.  They prefer to blame it on stupid voters failing to see how wonderful they are, the way their supporters do.

Can't agree with that.

The surge would be far greater than 5 points.

[oldfordie]

It will get much worse. Tory Central Office has barely started.

In the two weeks before the vote we will see them unfurl one damning fact about Corbyn after another. He will be exposed (or, for those already in the know, re-exposed) as an IRA supporter, as a camp follower of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, as an enthusiastic advocate of Hugo Chavez's disastrous economic policies, as a man who has shared platforms with virulent anti-Semites and Holocaust Deniers and invited them for tea to the House of Commons, as a man who has shaken hands with Assad in Damascus and taken the shilling from the Islamic Republic of Iran, and as someone who has repeatedly defended the military aggression of Vladimir Putin and called for the abolition of NATO.

We will see pictures of him at IRA funerals with masked gunmen firing their salutes to dead terrorists. We will see him consorting with Gerry Adams days after the IRA had reduced a wing of the Brighton hotel to rubble and tried to murder the Prime Minister (the position he now wants). We will be shown pictures of his byline in the Stalinist newspaper, the Morning Star. We will see him soft-soaping some Jew hater on Press TV. We will see him surrounded by the yellow flags of Hezbollah. We will see him with his arms around George Galloway after Galloway has just defeated the Labour candidate in Bradford.

All these things are yet to appear in the campaign. They will. The Tories will not have to make them up. They happened. And the tragedy is that all these things were known when the Labour party membership chose to elect him. They were already known. Corbyn was once proud of all these acts of 'solidarity'. He probably still is. He made no attempt to hide them. Hence when the Tories start to remind people of who Corbyn is those who voted for him will only have themselves to blame.

The damage this will do has been completely underestimated by his supporters, Labour can bounce back from his incompetence, they cant bounce back from an image like this. I honestly have no idea why people could think it's no big deal. it will reflect on the whole party, the public will be horrified, they wont even consider Labour as a choice. it will take a very long time to win the confidence of the public while they still have this image in their minds. am not sure it's possible inside 20yrs as people will still be defending Corbyn passionately long after he's gone.

[Cliff Bastin]

Paul Mason was a mess just now on Newsnight. They should have just got Diane Abbott and Owen Jones on to complete the freak show.

Watched it. All he had to explain the Tory vote is basically that Tory voters are all racist. Such a weak performance from himself. Why do Corbyn fans make excuses like that.

[Lord Roger Hunt]

He has all the charisma of a penile wart. He's allowed himself to be associated with the calamity of the current leadership by continuing as Deputy Leader. The leftists hate him as betrayer in chief.

In other words, he has precious little constituency within the party on either side, and is already a washout with the wider electorate.

Ah, OK, I see you're undecided too... 

Just illustrates how fragmented the movement is nowadays...it's going to take years to heal....

[Team Sleep]

Can't agree with that.

The surge would be far greater than 5 points.

 

Sadly all of the three major parties look weak when looking at who their next leader could be. Slim pickings indeed.

[Red Beret]

Can't agree with that.

The surge would be far greater than 5 points.

I was trying to be moderate.

It will get much worse. Tory Central Office has barely started.

In the two weeks before the vote we will see them unfurl one damning fact about Corbyn after another. He will be exposed (or, for those already in the know, re-exposed) as an IRA supporter, as a camp follower of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, as an enthusiastic advocate of Hugo Chavez's disastrous economic policies, as a man who has shared platforms with virulent anti-Semites and Holocaust Deniers and invited them for tea to the House of Commons, as a man who has shaken hands with Assad in Damascus and taken the shilling from the Islamic Republic of Iran, and as someone who has repeatedly defended the military aggression of Vladimir Putin and called for the abolition of NATO.

We will see pictures of him at IRA funerals with masked gunmen firing their salutes to dead terrorists. We will see him consorting with Gerry Adams days after the IRA had reduced a wing of the Brighton hotel to rubble and tried to murder the Prime Minister (the position he now wants). We will be shown pictures of his byline in the Stalinist newspaper, the Morning Star. We will see him soft-soaping some Jew hater on Press TV. We will see him surrounded by the yellow flags of Hezbollah. We will see him with his arms around George Galloway after Galloway has just defeated the Labour candidate in Bradford.

All these things are yet to appear in the campaign. They will. The Tories will not have to make them up. They happened. And the tragedy is that all these things were known when the Labour party membership chose to elect him. They were already known. Corbyn was once proud of all these acts of 'solidarity'. He probably still is. He made no attempt to hide them. Hence when the Tories start to remind people of who Corbyn is those who voted for him will only have themselves to blame.

Honestly tempted to share that to FB, but it would likely raise nuclear hell on my timeline. 

[Trev20]

If a leader was credible, black or otherwise, he would have as good a chance of being elected as anyone. Chuka Umunna wouldnt, because he is shit.

He is the individual to restore the relevance and credibility of the Labour party

[Banquo's Ghost]

Ah, OK, I see you're undecided too... 

Just illustrates how fragmented the movement is nowadays...it's going to take years to heal....

Sorry, I'm just seething with anger. Particularly at my wing of the party (third way centrist, if in doubt  ) more so than the Corbynites.

For all the immense faults of the left now in charge, it's our fault they got the chance again. We indulged ourselves - instead of a laser focus on getting back into power in 2010, we allowed ourselves to flirt with being a bit left, and allowed Ed Miliband to get elected by the unions. We settled for him, when we all knew he was the wrong brother. We let him change the rules on membership, conveniently forgetting all the lessons I thought were burned into our very souls from the fight against Militant in the 80s. We allowed the Tories to destroy our legacy and actively participated in the destruction, apologising for whatever they accused us of.

Once the membership change was brought in, this catastrophe was inevitable. We then indulged ourselves even more by pity-proposing Corbyn to 'widen the debate'. Widen the fucking debate. Funny phrase for political suicide. I fought against these Militant types for years to get the party back to electoral respectability. They are fucking relentless. We indulged ourselves and they pounced. Now the party is dead.

It's fucking shite.

[stewil007]

We indulged ourselves and they pounced. Now the party is dead.

so what you're saying is that  you are reaping the seeds you sowed?

[Banquo's Ghost]

so what you're saying is that  you are reaping the seeds you sowed?

Not really. To continue the gardening metaphor, we forgot that weeds are always present, thought we could be a bit more nature friendly and allow a couple of dandelions and now we've been taken over by Japanese knotweed.

[hide5seek]

Clive Lewis will be lucky to be an MP.

How so? 7000 majority from the Lib Dems.

[Rob Dylan]

It will get much worse. Tory Central Office has barely started.

In the two weeks before the vote we will see them unfurl one damning fact about Corbyn after another. He will be exposed (or, for those already in the know, re-exposed) as an IRA supporter, as a camp follower of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, as an enthusiastic advocate of Hugo Chavez's disastrous economic policies, as a man who has shared platforms with virulent anti-Semites and Holocaust Deniers and invited them for tea to the House of Commons, as a man who has shaken hands with Assad in Damascus and taken the shilling from the Islamic Republic of Iran, and as someone who has repeatedly defended the military aggression of Vladimir Putin and called for the abolition of NATO.

We will see pictures of him at IRA funerals with masked gunmen firing their salutes to dead terrorists. We will see him consorting with Gerry Adams days after the IRA had reduced a wing of the Brighton hotel to rubble and tried to murder the Prime Minister (the position he now wants). We will be shown pictures of his byline in the Stalinist newspaper, the Morning Star. We will see him soft-soaping some Jew hater on Press TV. We will see him surrounded by the yellow flags of Hezbollah. We will see him with his arms around George Galloway after Galloway has just defeated the Labour candidate in Bradford.

All these things are yet to appear in the campaign. They will. The Tories will not have to make them up. They happened. And the tragedy is that all these things were known when the Labour party membership chose to elect him. They were already known. Corbyn was once proud of all these acts of 'solidarity'. He probably still is. He made no attempt to hide them. Hence when the Tories start to remind people of who Corbyn is those who voted for him will only have themselves to blame.

Knew he'd done some dodgy things, but didn't know about all of those. Pretty damning really.  I do wonder how many of the people who voted for him - not the fanatics, but the ordinary members who just liked the idea of someone a bit more left wing - actually knew about all of this. Personally, I'd never actually heard of him before 2015.

[Team Sleep]

How so? 7000 majority from the Lib Dems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000864

Around 7.7k from the Conservatives who can reasonably expect, based on the local elections, to pick up most of the 4.5k from UKIP - that's potentially at least half the gap closed before Labour hemorrhages any votes to the Lib Dems and Greens who both hit large numbers finishing third and fourth. I'm genuinely not sure how many "safe" seats Labour have left.

The local elections have demonstrated that there's now only one party on the right, too many on the left sharing votes with no one in the middle. I don't think anyone saw the UKIP transfer to the Tories coming to the extent that it did, but the only hope for the left was a progressive alliance and agreeing to not run against eachother, and that was dismissed immediately by Labour and Lib Dems. The future of the country was not put first.

Edit: Just checked, the Greens and Lib Dems have put up candidates for Norwich South whereas UKIP have not, asking that their supporters instead vote Conservative.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-announce-they-will-not-have-norwich-general-election-candidates-and-urge-supporters-to-lend-votes-to-conservatives-1-5005922

[redmark]

How so? 7000 majority from the Lib Dems.

It's a three-way semi-marginal. 2015 majority is 7.7k over the Tories, but Lib Dems won it in 2010. If the Kippers vote Tory and Labour loses some of their pro-EU voters to the Lib Dems or Greens, could very easily go Tory. But then the Lib Dems won't have totally written it off either, despite finishing behind the Greens in 2015. If those two do a deal on this and other seats (polled over 20k between them in 2010 and 13.5k in a bad 2015), they could challenge. Labour could hold it, or finish 3rd.

[JohnnoWhite]

He is the individual to restore the relevance and credibility of the Labour party

No he isn't. He's any which way the wind blows. He's a dedicated follower of fashion/mood/whatever you want.

[Alan_X]

Sorry, I'm just seething with anger. Particularly at my wing of the party (third way centrist, if in doubt  ) more so than the Corbynites.

For all the immense faults of the left now in charge, it's our fault they got the chance again. We indulged ourselves - instead of a laser focus on getting back into power in 2010, we allowed ourselves to flirt with being a bit left, and allowed Ed Miliband to get elected by the unions. We settled for him, when we all knew he was the wrong brother. We let him change the rules on membership, conveniently forgetting all the lessons I thought were burned into our very souls from the fight against Militant in the 80s. We allowed the Tories to destroy our legacy and actively participated in the destruction, apologising for whatever they accused us of.

Once the membership change was brought in, this catastrophe was inevitable. We then indulged ourselves even more by pity-proposing Corbyn to 'widen the debate'. Widen the fucking debate. Funny phrase for political suicide. I fought against these Militant types for years to get the party back to electoral respectability. They are fucking relentless. We indulged ourselves and they pounced. Now the party is dead.

It's fucking shite.

It was the Unions that swung it for Ed last time. David Milliband was the choice of the PLP and the members.

[TravisBickle]

Knew he'd done some dodgy things, but didn't know about all of those. Pretty damning really.  I do wonder how many of the people who voted for him - not the fanatics, but the ordinary members who just liked the idea of someone a bit more left wing - actually knew about all of this. Personally, I'd never actually heard of him before 2015.

 Oh, they knew. They just didn't care. They either defended it, used shameless whataboutery (usually Tony Blair and his 'illegal' wars) or invented some alternate version of history where Corbyn was a serial peacemaker in various international conflicts rather than an obscure backbench MP with zero influence over anyone.

[TheShanklyGates]

Long stopped wasting my breath on this  thread lad, so called "labourites" clearly want may elected.

That's a load of absolute bollocks and you know it.

[classycarra]

That's a load of absolute bollocks and you know it.

Course it is, but not sure he does. He claims this thread is a waste of time, but is always reading it. Instead of bringing any kind of argument to the table, or taking part in a discussion, he's primed and ready to lash out a 'you're all tories' line as soon as the opportunity arises.

Pretty amusing he's clung to Jimmy Corkhill, assuming he is part of his own bubble. Oops:

Eh? I wanted Corbyn gone at the time of his re-election as leader.

[JohnnoWhite]

If you read a lot of posts on here, there are plenty that seem really happy that Labour have been stuffed (I'm guessing because these people have been 'proven right' in what they have been saying)

There clearly is no future for the Labour Party because the Labour Party no longer exists.

The reasons the Labour Party was set up and the idea of what they do has gone.

The Tories have done as badly since 2010 as any party in my living memory (That's a few years now) and yet you hear from members of the public that they are 'doing a good job' and that they 'trust them'.

Their one aim was to pay down the debt and get rid of it - I think they said 2018? - it would be gone?

When they took over - what was it? Around £700M - what is it now? £1.8 trillion.

And that's doing a good job. Schools, Hospitals, Nurses, Doctors, Police, Ambulances, Public Spaces, Libraries, Health care, social care, young people, old people, the jobless, the vunerable, those that need extra help or protection - all shat on by the Tories and yet they are 'doing a good job'.

There is no way that you can counter that.

There's a weird and sickeningly disturbing phenomenon out among our people today. It's totally shitlike and goes something like "We'll vote against Corbyn's Labour because we don't like him, there's nothing wrong with our NHS - went to hossie last week and had to wait a bit but eh it's still there, there's nothing wrong with sanctioning the useless lazy fuckers on benefits, ignore the rough-sleepers in our towns and cities (they are bums anyway so who gives a fuck) let's not worry too much about the penalising of the sick and the disabled as most of them won't last much longer anyroad and thank fuck it's them and not us.

The people have become inured to the pain that's out there for "all those others"  and frankly have lost their compassion to give a little bit of a shit. They now meekly acquiesce to any fucking Tory atrocity rather than being outraged to the point of revolting.

We had better face the fact that those who were once our people have been self-servativised and have chosen to discard their moral compass. They clearly are selfishly indifferent now so it's every fucker for themselves. Last person leaving this sinking ship SS UK switch off the lights eh? As a humanitarian socialist, I am appalled - and you lot - the mods - can stick this Anti-Labour Party thread up yer jacksies. Fuck off the lot of youse.

[classycarra]

There's a weird and sickeningly disturbing phenomenon out among our people today. It's totally shitlike and goes something like "We'll vote against Corbyn's Labour because we don't like him, there's nothing wrong with our NHS - went to hossie last week and had top wait a bit but eh it's still there, there's nothing wrong with sanctioning the useless lazy fuckers on benefits, ignore the rough-sleepers in our towns and cities (they are bums anyway so who gives a fuck) let's not worry too much about the penalising of the sick and the disabled as most of them won't last much longer anyroad and thank fuck it's them and not us.

The people are inured to the pain that's out there for "all those others"  and frankly have lost their compassion to give a little bit of a shit. They now meekly acquiesce to any fucking Tory atrocity rather than being outraged to the point of revolting. We better face the fact that those who were once our people have been self-servativised and have chosen to discard their moral compass. They clearly are selfishly indifferent now so it's every fucker for themselves. Last person leaving this sinking ship SS UK switch off the lights eh?

Evening Johnno. Can you let us know when you've heard people say any and all of those things? They sound rather hyperbolic, and a little bit designed to fit your pre-conceived view. Can't say I've encountered anyone out there in the real world, and certainly not on RAWK

[Alan_X]

There's a weird and sickeningly disturbing phenomenon out among our people today. It's totally shitlike and goes something like "We'll vote against Corbyn's Labour because we don't like him, there's nothing wrong with our NHS - went to hossie last week and had to wait a bit but eh it's still there, there's nothing wrong with sanctioning the useless lazy fuckers on benefits, ignore the rough-sleepers in our towns and cities (they are bums anyway so who gives a fuck) let's not worry too much about the penalising of the sick and the disabled as most of them won't last much longer anyroad and thank fuck it's them and not us.

The people have become inured to the pain that's out there for "all those others"  and frankly have lost their compassion to give a little bit of a shit. They now meekly acquiesce to any fucking Tory atrocity rather than being outraged to the point of revolting.

We had better face the fact that those who were once our people have been self-servativised and have chosen to discard their moral compass. They clearly are selfishly indifferent now so it's every fucker for themselves. Last person leaving this sinking ship SS UK switch off the lights eh? As a humanitarian socialist, I am appalled - and you lot - the mods - can stick this Anti-Labour Party thread up yer jacksies. Fuck off the lot of youse.

Fuck me Johnno, I've seen some straw man arguments in my time. That's a straw army.

[redmark]

There's a weird and sickeningly disturbing phenomenon out among our people today. It's totally shitlike and goes something like "We'll vote against Corbyn's Labour because we don't like him, there's nothing wrong with our NHS - went to hossie last week and had to wait a bit but eh it's still there, there's nothing wrong with sanctioning the useless lazy fuckers on benefits, ignore the rough-sleepers in our towns and cities (they are bums anyway so who gives a fuck) let's not worry too much about the penalising of the sick and the disabled as most of them won't last much longer anyroad and thank fuck it's them and not us.

The people have become inured to the pain that's out there for "all those others"  and frankly have lost their compassion to give a little bit of a shit. They now meekly acquiesce to any fucking Tory atrocity rather than being outraged to the point of revolting.

We had better face the fact that those who were once our people have been self-servativised and have chosen to discard their moral compass. They clearly are selfishly indifferent now so it's every fucker for themselves. Last person leaving this sinking ship SS UK switch off the lights eh? As a humanitarian socialist, I am appalled - and you lot - the mods - can stick this Anti-Labour Party thread up yer jacksies. Fuck off the lot of youse.

I hope Corbyn/McDonnell go for it, now. There are little glimpses in the text of his speech in Leicester (if he can frame his "really angry" emotion in less robotic language) of a passion that might actually resonate with people. I was against Corbyn's election (twice) and am disappointed (not surprised) by the quality of his leadership. But right now, more than anything, I'm just underwhelmed. Where's the radical agenda for change? Have they not thought of anything in the last 30-odd years?

Be radical. Come up with some broad policy initiatives (not just more bank holidays and repealing Tory anti-union legislation). It's excruciating - but entirely unsurprising - that it's the Lib Dems who have had the balls to suggest raising Income Tax to bolster the NHS and Social Care.

My problem with Corbyn isn't that he's a socialist. It's that he's not very good. Right now, if we're going to test a socialist leader on the British electorate, at least do it with a socialist platform instead of this timid, incoherent, confused mess (Diane Abbott's presentation notwithstanding, when did 'extra bobbies on the beat' become a rallying cry for socialists?).

[John C]

Lets keep personal abuse of other Reds who are not public figures out of this thread please. There's plenty of ways of expressing concerns about a banner you disagree with.

[Libertine]

Where's the radical agenda for change? Have they not thought of anything in the last 30-odd years?

Clearly not.

The problem with ideologues such as Corbyn and McDonnell is that they never think of anything new or radical. Their politics comes fully formed several decades ago and never changes. I know the Hodgson comparison is frowned upon (and who would want to be compared with such a fraud) but it's so apt. Politicians on the extremes (of left and right) are so arrogant and convinced of their stances that they never stop to examine or innovate.

As you say - 30 years to prepare to get into this position. 2 years in power. And what have they come up with? Spend loads of money and have a few extra days off. Well, it works well for Corbyn so why not everyone else.

We can argue about whether they are too far to the left or not. But progressive? Radical? Don't make me laugh.

[Red Beret]

There's a weird and sickeningly disturbing phenomenon out among our people today. It's totally shitlike and goes something like "We'll vote against Corbyn's Labour because we don't like him, there's nothing wrong with our NHS - went to hossie last week and had to wait a bit but eh it's still there, there's nothing wrong with sanctioning the useless lazy fuckers on benefits, ignore the rough-sleepers in our towns and cities (they are bums anyway so who gives a fuck) let's not worry too much about the penalising of the sick and the disabled as most of them won't last much longer anyroad and thank fuck it's them and not us.

The people have become inured to the pain that's out there for "all those others"  and frankly have lost their compassion to give a little bit of a shit. They now meekly acquiesce to any fucking Tory atrocity rather than being outraged to the point of revolting.

We had better face the fact that those who were once our people have been self-servativised and have chosen to discard their moral compass. They clearly are selfishly indifferent now so it's every fucker for themselves. Last person leaving this sinking ship SS UK switch off the lights eh? As a humanitarian socialist, I am appalled - and you lot - the mods - can stick this Anti-Labour Party thread up yer jacksies. Fuck off the lot of youse.

so to be anti Corbyn is to be anti Labour?  You're old enough to know better.

I'll say it again: Labour wont lose this election because a bunch of Labour supporters have a bad case of sour grapes over Saint Jeremy.  They'll lose it because Saint Jeremy isn't competent at his job and has utterly failed to energise the wider voting public beyond his fanbase.  Blaming the voters for being too stupid and mean to see how wonderful he is is clutching at straws.

There are plenty of people on here who can't stand Corbyn but will be voting Labour.

[BoRed]

I'm still curious who the two unnamed images are?

Des Warren and Ricky Tomlinson?

Yes.

[B0151?]

(Moving this to the Labour thread as it seems to fit better)

Some may say this now but history will be the judge. the vote of no confidence was justified, he never won their confidence or respect for a reason, he was useless from day 1, his attitude throughout the referendum campaign was the final straw, he refused to stand down, this was his decision alone and what followed was unnecessary but it only came about due to his refusal to accept realty.
I think history will vindicate the Labour MPs, they tried their best to avert the disaster they knew was about to come, the disaster they foresaw is now becoming a realty both for Labour and the country.

Sorry, I didn't mean to put that 'but' there, I think it was ill-judged because of its resulting failure. It didn't seem like they anticipated him not standing down at all, which obviously resulted in first the desperate attempts to try stop him re-standing, and then the humiliating challenge of Smith (nothing against Smith, very much a sacrificial lamb, obviously no-one was going to beat Corbyn). All of which just reinforced this shell around Corbyn.

I completely get why they did it, but hard left were never going to let go voluntarily, and that should've been foresaw really. I suppose they saw a little chance and felt they had to go for it but definitely ended up being a damaging failure.

Although I suppose once again it's something that Labour can point to post-Corbyn and say 'sorry, we tried'. Just I really do worry about the level of support Corbyn has and what that means going forward after this election.

[TravisBickle]

There's a weird and sickeningly disturbing phenomenon out among our people today. It's totally shitlike and goes something like "We'll vote against Corbyn's Labour because we don't like him, there's nothing wrong with our NHS - went to hossie last week and had to wait a bit but eh it's still there, there's nothing wrong with sanctioning the useless lazy fuckers on benefits, ignore the rough-sleepers in our towns and cities (they are bums anyway so who gives a fuck) let's not worry too much about the penalising of the sick and the disabled as most of them won't last much longer anyroad and thank fuck it's them and not us.

The people have become inured to the pain that's out there for "all those others"  and frankly have lost their compassion to give a little bit of a shit. They now meekly acquiesce to any fucking Tory atrocity rather than being outraged to the point of revolting.

We had better face the fact that those who were once our people have been self-servativised and have chosen to discard their moral compass. They clearly are selfishly indifferent now so it's every fucker for themselves. Last person leaving this sinking ship SS UK switch off the lights eh? As a humanitarian socialist, I am appalled - and you lot - the mods - can stick this Anti-Labour Party thread up yer jacksies. Fuck off the lot of youse.

 Being anti-Corbyn is now synonymous with being anti-Labour is it? You do realise that just sounds absurdly cultish, but then I'm used to that with Corbynites now.
 
Some of us are anti-Corbyn precisely because we want what's best for Labour. Your assumption that people who don't agree with you just want to see the poor starve is as misguided as it is self-righteous.

[oldfordie]

(Moving this to the Labour thread as it seems to fit better)

Sorry, I didn't mean to put that 'but' there, I think it was ill-judged because of its resulting failure. It didn't seem like they anticipated him not standing down at all, which obviously resulted in first the desperate attempts to try stop him re-standing, and then the humiliating challenge of Smith (nothing against Smith, very much a sacrificial lamb, obviously no-one was going to beat Corbyn). All of which just reinforced this shell around Corbyn.

I completely get why they did it, but hard left were never going to let go voluntarily, and that should've been foresaw really. I suppose they saw a little chance and felt they had to go for it but definitely ended up being a damaging failure.

Although I suppose once again it's something that Labour can point to post-Corbyn and say 'sorry, we tried'. Just I really do worry about the level of support Corbyn has and what that means going forward after this election.

It's just the words ill judged I disagree with and it's actually important. If we look whats happened during Corbyns reign then calling a vote of no confidence was completely justified.
History may say the vote of no confidence was doomed from the start but I don't think it will say it was ill judged,it will reflect badly on Corbyn for refusing to accept realty.

[JohnnoWhite]

Being anti-Corbyn is now synonymous with being anti-Labour is it? You do realise that just sounds absurdly cultish, but then I'm used to that with Corbynites now.
 
Some of us are anti-Corbyn precisely because we want what's best for Labour. Your assumption that people who don't agree with you just want to see the poor starve is as misguided as it is self-righteous.

Simple question directed to you TravisBickle. All your anti-Corbyn shit set to one side for the moment.

What is the primary requirement for the immediate? To see 5 more years of this the most murderous Tory government of my 71 years lifetime or is it to end them June 8th? Answer that truthfully.

I'm not your ENEMY  FFS - THEY are!! So if you can't see that stopping them first and foremost is our primary objective, you can fuck right off with your sardonic bollux narrative!!

[TravisBickle]

Simple question directed to you TravisBickle. All your anti-Corbyn shit set to one side for the moment.

What is the primary requirement for the immediate? To see 5 more years of this the most murderous Tory government of my 71 years lifetime or is it to end them June 8th? Answer that truthfully.

I'm not your ENEMY  FFS - THEY are!! So if you can't see that stopping them first and foremost is our primary objective, you can fuck right off with your sardonic bollux narrative!!

 No, to see the callous shower of shite currently in government sent to the opposition benches is my priority. That ain't possible with Corbyn. Therefore I want him gone yesterday.

[jillcwhomever]

Simple question directed to you TravisBickle. All your anti-Corbyn shit set to one side for the moment.

What is the primary requirement for the immediate? To see 5 more years of this the most murderous Tory government of my 71 years lifetime or is it to end them June 8th? Answer that truthfully.

I'm not your ENEMY  FFS - THEY are!! So if you can't see that stopping them first and foremost is our primary objective, you can fuck right off with your sardonic bollux narrative!!

If people thought for one minute that Corbyn could do that, and had an interest in doing that, then maybe they would get behind him. I have a lot of respect for you Johnno, but honestly the man cannot lead to save his life. The whole Labour front bench is a disaster area. Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot have no idea how to run a concerted campaign. I've voted for this party all my life, but this time I am not campaigning. Why? Because I have no belief in the current leader, if I cannot believe in him, how the hell do I convince others to? He should have resigned when he had the chance, but instead he will be known as the man who led the party to its massacre come June. I cannot follow him blindly, Labour should be about Government. Those who currently run the party are not interested in that.

[Yorkykopite]

There's a weird and sickeningly disturbing phenomenon out among our people today. It's totally shitlike and goes something like "We'll vote against Corbyn's Labour because we don't like him, there's nothing wrong with our NHS - went to hossie last week and had to wait a bit but eh it's still there, there's nothing wrong with sanctioning the useless lazy fuckers on benefits, ignore the rough-sleepers in our towns and cities (they are bums anyway so who gives a fuck) let's not worry too much about the penalising of the sick and the disabled as most of them won't last much longer anyroad and thank fuck it's them and not us.

The people have become inured to the pain that's out there for "all those others"  and frankly have lost their compassion to give a little bit of a shit. They now meekly acquiesce to any fucking Tory atrocity rather than being outraged to the point of revolting.

We had better face the fact that those who were once our people have been self-servativised and have chosen to discard their moral compass. They clearly are selfishly indifferent now so it's every fucker for themselves. Last person leaving this sinking ship SS UK switch off the lights eh? As a humanitarian socialist, I am appalled - and you lot - the mods - can stick this Anti-Labour Party thread up yer jacksies. Fuck off the lot of youse.

Every week or so this poster produces a hymn of hate for the British public. It's his most consistent note. Derision for ordinary people.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

In other news labour plan to raise taxes on people who earn over £80k a year, i.e. The top 5%.

Nice to see the class warfare bollocks, as well as practically saying to the younger, aspirational people don't vote for us when they'd be far better going after wealth taxes/increase taxes on the top 1%. Then again i guess its progress that they've binned off the moronic wage cap idea that should never have come up, never mind the leader making it public.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

In other news labour plan to raise taxes on people who earn over £80k a year, i.e. The top 5%.

Nice to see the class warfare bollocks, as well as practically saying to the younger, aspirational people don't vote for us when they'd be far better going after wealth taxes/increase taxes on the top 1%. Then again i guess its progress that they've binned off the moronic wage cap idea that should never have come up, never mind the leader making it public.

What's the problem with people being made to pay their fair share of tax?

If you belong to a society then you should contribute to it.