Author Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics  (Read 149929 times)

Offline clinical

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1120 on: March 9, 2017, 12:51:43 PM »
Good analysis of our team on the Double Pivot podcast this week (its a good podcast - very nerdy and they're american so won't be for most people).

They point out our attack is basically as good as anyone's including against weaker teams but that we give up far too many quality chances against the dross.
Our expected goals conceded is actually worse against the worse teams ..... which is insane

Their diagnosis was that we over commit against weaker teams and leave too many holes and that our centre backs and goal keeper aren't good enough to save us when left exposed. (also pointing out that a lot wouldn't be the way we play)
They also point out that we've proved we can be super effective playing more compact because we do it against the big teams.

Intersting as they discuss - these things are usually just variance / luck but in our case this season it does seem to be a systemic issue against the lesser teams and has more to do with our defence than our attack

That sounds spot on to me.
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Online Giono

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1121 on: March 9, 2017, 01:45:33 PM »

Good analysis of our team on the Double Pivot podcast this week (its a good podcast - very nerdy and they're american so won't be for most people).

They point out our attack is basically as good as anyone's including against weaker teams but that we give up far too many quality chances against the dross.
Our expected goals conceded is actually worse against the worse teams ..... which is insane

Their diagnosis was that we over commit against weaker teams and leave too many holes and that our centre backs and goal keeper aren't good enough to save us when left exposed. (also pointing out that a lot wouldn't be the way we play)
They also point out that we've proved we can be super effective playing more compact because we do it against the big teams.

Intersting as they discuss - these things are usually just variance / luck but in our case this season it does seem to be a systemic issue against the lesser teams and has more to do with our defence than our attack

Interesting points, but I don't think it is down to defence alone.

It is a natural outcome to start from the goals conceded stat and then conclude that the problem is defence of course. And then following that logic conclude that since defensive problems are usually down to positioning, the reason that our opponents seem so clinical on their counters is that we are conceding too much space to be counter-attack through by over-committing our wingbacks, DM and Central defenders.

That puts the critical focus on off-the-ball stuff. What about on-the-ball? Maybe that is our problem?

The stat that you mention about our attacking play is that "our attack is basically as good as anyone's including against weaker teams ". That is not entirely true. Against low block teams it is feast-or-famine depending on how clinical we are in any match and depending on how early we are clinical. Not being clinical is bad enough, but how we fail in attack is important too.

Our opponents' counter attacks have to start somewhere. And it is usually when we give them the ball in a position where they have the time and space to accurately get it up the pitch beyond our defenders. Our horseshoe of wingbacks and CDs can be impatient, unimaginative and unskilled. Our wingbacks blindly crossing into areas where we have no attacking players and where the opponents collect the ball with time and space. Our CDs often hoof the ball up the pitch once again to opponents with time and space or physical size on their side. Or they pass it back to a goal keeper that hoofs it up the pitch to opponents that tower over our slight attackers.

Our defensive strength is our pressing. Are opponents negating our gegenpressing or are we?

What if our wingbacks were to instead to try to pass it on the ground to one the five attacking players we have in the middle? And lose the ball. Or try to beat a man and lose the ball? Our opponents would precariously get the ball with 1 or 2 of our players in their face. Harder to start a counter in those conditions.

What if our CDs and DM passed the ball along the ground to a nearby attacking mid or wide forward? Instead of telecasting a huge hoofed cross up to an isolated panicked wingback? Harder to start an effective counter in a crowded midfield with our defenders nearer our final third.

I think our problem is not defensive positioning, it is how wasteful, impatient and counter-productive we are with all the possession we are given in these matches.


Klopp is dictating the positioning of his defenders and they are following his tactics. Listen to Klopp after these disappointments: His lament after these matches is how wasteful, impatient and unthinking we have been in possession. Not skewering defenders for being out of position.
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Offline Bergersleftpeg

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1122 on: March 9, 2017, 02:17:06 PM »
What if our CDs and DM passed the ball along the ground to a nearby attacking mid or wide forward? Instead of telecasting a huge hoofed cross up to an isolated panicked wingback? Harder to start an effective counter in a crowded midfield with our defenders nearer our final third.

I think our problem is not defensive positioning, it is how wasteful, impatient and counter-productive we are with all the possession we are given in these matches.


Klopp is dictating the positioning of his defenders and they are following his tactics. Listen to Klopp after these disappointments: His lament after these matches is how wasteful, impatient and unthinking we have been in possession. Not skewering defenders for being out of position.

Spot on. This drives me mad.

Just keep hold of the bloody ball. You don't have to score every goal within 10 seconds of winning back possession. If that is on - go for it. If not - pass it back to a CB, pass it back to the goalie if you have to. Pass it side to side and back again. Wait for an opening.

One of the things that struck me when I watched Bayern live on Wednesday is how patient they are. They always keep the ball moving. The opposition have to pay full attention at all times and they are constantly kept moving side to side. That is tiring and eventually a space will open up somewhere.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1123 on: March 9, 2017, 09:55:02 PM »
Not sure how impatient we are when we usually have 60% of the possession usually and in some games where we have actually lost we had 70% plus. Basically even Barca lose the ball on occasions and its how we cope with that is the key. Usually its excellent but of course we feck up, every team does but where we let ourselves down is the quality chances we give teams. We cough up too many goals from defensive issues like set pieces and getting caught out on a break....its highlights our lack of concentration in defending whether it be a free man on a corner or a full back gone forward and no one covering the space he leaves behind. Impatience?? More like school boy errors.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1124 on: March 11, 2017, 09:43:49 AM »
An educated guess at what the squad will look like next season based on Klopp's choices and tactics...

Current squad:                         

                        Karius
                       Mignolet
Clyne    Matip           Lovren       Milner
Trent     Lucas          Klavan       Moreno
Randall  Gomez
                      Henderson
                         Can
                       Stewart
          Lallana              Wijnaldum
                                    Grujic
                                    Ejaria
 Mané                                   Coutinho
 Wilson                                  Ojo
 Kent                                     Woodburn
                    Firmino
                    Sturridge
                    Origi
                    Ings

There are 5 well-publicized issues with this squad:

- lack of a natural LB
- poor CB coverage (i.e. Lucas isn't a CB)
- lack of cover/alternative for Lallana in midfield
- lack of first-team winger other than Mané
- lack of a clinical striker

James Pearce said recently that he sees a big summer with 5-6 signings and a few "deadwood" leaving.

Considering the way Klopp likes to play, and the 4 issues listed above, it seems logical to think that the following would happen:

- Buy a creative midfielder so the squad isn't overly reliant on Lallana.
- Buy another winger (or two, depending on progress of Ojo, Wilson, etc)

Likely departures (according to Pearce): Lucas, Moreno, Sturridge... Ings' future looks uncertain too.

... meaning that with European football Klopp would probably want:

- Another CB, LB, and striker.

If anyone else leaves (Can? Mignolet?) then that would need to be accounted for too.

In summary:

In's: CB, LB, CM, LW, ST.
Out's: Lucas, Moreno, Sturridge

2017/18 projected squad:

                           Karius
                          Mignolet
Clyne        Matip        Lovren       LB
Trent           CB          Klavan       Milner
                 Gomez
                      Henderson
                        Can
                      Stewart
              Lallana          Wijnaldum
                 CM               Grujic
                                     Ejaria
   Mané                                       Coutinho
Wilson/Kent/Ojo/Woodburn          LW

                         Firmino
                           ST
                          Origi

Changes along these lines look pretty reasonable, and address the key tactical short-falls of the current squad listed earlier:

- lack of a natural LB
- poor CB coverage
- lack of cover/alternative for Lallana in midfield
- lack of first-team winger other than Mané
- lack of a clinical striker (to rotate with Firmino)

Those changes also re-balance the squad to keep players (eg. Firmino) having to be played out of position on the wing.

I think most would agree that the First XI is great, when everyone is in form, but lacks the quality to allow the same shape to be kept when there are injuries or loss of form for key players. The suggested changes completely address the squad shortfalls by adding quality where needed by providing balance in the squad depth-wise.

Looking forward to hearing some thoughts, but keeping more focus on the squad and tactics than on transfer speculations. :)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 09:47:59 AM by rickardinho1 »

Offline Anfield Ed

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1125 on: March 11, 2017, 10:30:01 AM »
If Firmino is our first choice up front then nothing will change.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1126 on: March 11, 2017, 10:50:41 AM »
Current squad:                         

                        Karius
                       Mignolet
Clyne    Matip           Lovren       Milner
Trent     Lucas          Klavan       Moreno
Randall  Gomez
                      Henderson
                         Can
                       Stewart
          Lallana              Wijnaldum
                                    Grujic
                                    Ejaria
 Mané                                   Coutinho
 Wilson                                  Ojo
 Kent                                     Woodburn
                    Firmino
                    Sturridge
                    Origi
                    Ings



- Buy a creative midfielder so the squad isn't overly reliant on Lallana.
- Buy another winger (or two, depending on progress of Ojo, Wilson, etc)

I've struck through the players who currently haven't shown the kind of consistency, form, ability or fitness/availability to be considered reliable and good enough for their chosen positions, in order for us to mount some sort of effective title challenge, and arguably a consistent top 4 finish in the league which I think is an important first step after a number of years away from regularly finishing in the champions league positions. The italicised players are the ones I think probably are good enough for our team, but maybe not necessarily in the role that they are playing in the correct position etc, or haven't quite had enough time to make an assessment. The young players I've struck through because to be fair, there are no youngsters who are at first team level immediately, and only time will tell with them. Of that lot though, I think Woodburn is the hottest prospect there.

From my assessment, it'd be easy to summarise that I think the squad is actually pretty short across the board. We do well inconsistently because, like you, I agree that we probably have just enough players to make a decent first team, and on a good day they can be bloody good. Unfortunately, across a season when injuries occur, or form drifts away, we need either a higher level of player (where form is less variable) or just more good players.

My solutions:

We've been deficient at LB for a long time. It's about time we just went out and bought the best left back we can get, install him in that position and then look at young players for that position after that, as an understudy.

I don't think Hendo is the right DM for us. I think a specialist DM would have a number of potential positive spinoffs
- given the lack of top quality CB's, and a proper LB, it would give us better protection for our back 4 and leak less goals
- Hendo for LFC was strongest when he was playing slightly ahead of Gerrard and behind SASAS and was one of the reasons we finished 2nd under Rodgers. Many people agreed that when Hendo was suspended, it severely dented our chances of winning the league that season.
- Wijnaldum has been unconvincing and perhaps 'too safe' at times, having Hendo higher up the pitch might take some burden off Lallana

We're scary thin up front. We've seen that already this season with significant form slumps when Mane was unavailable, or Coutinho/Firmino injured etc. We need to swallow the bitter pill and accept that Sturridge, although a top class finisher, isn't reliable. I don't know about Origi. At times I though he'd be the next Thierry Henry, and other times he just looks like the next David Ngog. I'm beginning to think that the latter is a lot more likely overall. We can solve this problem by bringing in 2 really top players, 1 winger and 1 striker. That way, we're not reliant on Coutinho, Firmino and Mane all the time, and have a bit of depth to us, and have a bit of bite off the bench as well if plan A doesn't work. A lot of people criticise Klopp on how late he is to make substitutions to change the game, but what options does he really have available. That he doesn't make changes clearly signals that he doesn't believe that the players there can actually make some significant impact.

That's only 4 players, albeit as best as we can realistically get for the positions concerned. I'd also like to see us have a bit of a plan B. We have a lot of players that are really quite similar. Sometimes, having someone that offers something a bit different isn't such a bad thing, as long as you have the players around them to make use of their strengths. Just take a look at Benteke, whom we moved on - still a 1 in 3 striker which is better than what we have. We just didn't have the tools to utilise his strengths (and he probably didn't want to stay). Before that, it was Andy Carroll who has also largely been a 1 in 3 striker since leaving us. This is all due to being surrounded by players that play to his strengths. Now I'm not saying we go and spend 30m plus on a backup plan, but surely we can do a bit of scouting to bring in a slightly different type of player as a backup. They don't need to be radically different, just offer something a little bit different to what we might start a game with. At the moment, we're lacking that.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1127 on: March 11, 2017, 11:30:15 AM »
If Firmino is our first choice up front then nothing will change.
Do you think it is realistic to expect a huge upgrade on Firmino at CF?

Just looking at Whoscored, here are the top 10 goal scorers this season under the age of 28...

1. Alexandre Lacazette   
2. Andrea Belotti
3. Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
4. Harry Kane
5. Romelu Lukaku
6. Mauro Icardi
7. Ciro Immobile
8. Timo Werner
9. Dele Alli
10. Antoine Griezmann

How many of those are attainable? Perhaps Lacazette, Belotti, Immobile, or Werner.... Though Werner is doubtful, as RB Leipzig have no reason to sell, and Immobile is not really an upgrade.

Beyond Lacazette or Belotti, how many strikers are realistically available as upgrades on Firmino?

Dembele at Celtic?
Alvaro Morata? Would Real Madrid sell?
Arkadiusz Milik (if fit)? Would Napoli sell?
Alexis Sanchez (if Arsenal would sell)? Probably too old and big wages for FSG though anyways.

Granted I'm not scout, but beyond a handful of players you're either getting into the territory of too old, not good enough, too expensive, or another young project player.

Worth remembering that Origi is still only 21 but already scoring at less than a goal every two games (according to transfermarkt). Perhaps the answer is to just give him time.

Feel free to suggest an alternative, given that you apparently think it's easy to upgrade Firmino :)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 11:35:13 AM by rickardinho1 »

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1128 on: March 11, 2017, 12:10:20 PM »
If Firmino is our first choice up front then nothing will change.

We'll continue to score the most in the league - great news

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1129 on: March 11, 2017, 12:24:06 PM »
I've struck through the players who currently haven't shown the kind of consistency, form, ability or fitness/availability to be considered reliable and good enough for their chosen positions, in order for us to mount some sort of effective title challenge, and arguably a consistent top 4 finish in the league which I think is an important first step after a number of years away from regularly finishing in the champions league positions. The italicised players are the ones I think probably are good enough for our team, but maybe not necessarily in the role that they are playing in the correct position etc, or haven't quite had enough time to make an assessment. The young players I've struck through because to be fair, there are no youngsters who are at first team level immediately, and only time will tell with them. Of that lot though, I think Woodburn is the hottest prospect there.

From my assessment, it'd be easy to summarise that I think the squad is actually pretty short across the board. We do well inconsistently because, like you, I agree that we probably have just enough players to make a decent first team, and on a good day they can be bloody good. Unfortunately, across a season when injuries occur, or form drifts away, we need either a higher level of player (where form is less variable) or just more good players.

My solutions:

We've been deficient at LB for a long time. It's about time we just went out and bought the best left back we can get, install him in that position and then look at young players for that position after that, as an understudy.

I don't think Hendo is the right DM for us. I think a specialist DM would have a number of potential positive spinoffs
- given the lack of top quality CB's, and a proper LB, it would give us better protection for our back 4 and leak less goals
- Hendo for LFC was strongest when he was playing slightly ahead of Gerrard and behind SASAS and was one of the reasons we finished 2nd under Rodgers. Many people agreed that when Hendo was suspended, it severely dented our chances of winning the league that season.
- Wijnaldum has been unconvincing and perhaps 'too safe' at times, having Hendo higher up the pitch might take some burden off Lallana

We're scary thin up front. We've seen that already this season with significant form slumps when Mane was unavailable, or Coutinho/Firmino injured etc. We need to swallow the bitter pill and accept that Sturridge, although a top class finisher, isn't reliable. I don't know about Origi. At times I though he'd be the next Thierry Henry, and other times he just looks like the next David Ngog. I'm beginning to think that the latter is a lot more likely overall. We can solve this problem by bringing in 2 really top players, 1 winger and 1 striker. That way, we're not reliant on Coutinho, Firmino and Mane all the time, and have a bit of depth to us, and have a bit of bite off the bench as well if plan A doesn't work. A lot of people criticise Klopp on how late he is to make substitutions to change the game, but what options does he really have available. That he doesn't make changes clearly signals that he doesn't believe that the players there can actually make some significant impact.

That's only 4 players, albeit as best as we can realistically get for the positions concerned. I'd also like to see us have a bit of a plan B. We have a lot of players that are really quite similar. Sometimes, having someone that offers something a bit different isn't such a bad thing, as long as you have the players around them to make use of their strengths. Just take a look at Benteke, whom we moved on - still a 1 in 3 striker which is better than what we have. We just didn't have the tools to utilise his strengths (and he probably didn't want to stay). Before that, it was Andy Carroll who has also largely been a 1 in 3 striker since leaving us. This is all due to being surrounded by players that play to his strengths. Now I'm not saying we go and spend 30m plus on a backup plan, but surely we can do a bit of scouting to bring in a slightly different type of player as a backup. They don't need to be radically different, just offer something a little bit different to what we might start a game with. At the moment, we're lacking that.
Agree with most of that.

Looking at the bigger picture, Klopp has only had one summer at the club, when he added 4 key pieces:

GK - Karius
CB - Matip
CM - Wijnaldum
RW - Mané
... along with an experienced stop-gap CB in Klavan.

The main focus last summer was clearly on getting rid of a lot of deadwood to streamline the squad, and with only 4-5 first team players coming in it inevitably left the squad quite thin.

As such, it is quite understandable that Klopp doesn't make many subs as you rightly point out, because as you said there aren't many players in the squad he apparently trusts to make a difference.

The first XI already looks solid, but beyond that it doesn't really look like a "Klopp team" yet.

The squad is quite shallow, so there is certainly plenty of room to add players to the squad, particularly when you factor in the likely departures of Lucas (30 years old, expiring contract, playing CB despite not being a CB), Moreno (unfavoured despite being the only LB), and Sturridge (unfavoured).

Judging by last summer's signings - where 4 of 5 signings went straight into the first XI, it is apparent that Klopp is intent on signing quality rather than quantity, so it's more than likely that the team could look quite a lot stronger in 6 months time after Klopp has addressed the LB area (surely 31 year old Milner is only seen as a short-term solution), the midfield, as well as adding a couple more forwards.

LB upgrade seems inevitable, and in my opinion additions in the midfield and forwards is not a question of if, but who.

It'll also be interesting to see what Klopp does at CB, because depending on who he adds it'll show just how much he rates each of them... In other words, Klopp could either choose to buy another top CB to make Lovren #3 CB, or he could decide to stick with Lovren next to Matip and simply get another squad filler like Klavan, and wait for Gomez to mature into the #2 next to Matip. Someone like Van Dijk would be awfully tempting for sure, but expensive CB's aren't really Klopp's thing.

That would be quite something though...
Matip - Van Dijk
Lovren - Klavan
Gomez

 ::)

Anyways, will be interesting to see how the squad takes shape. I'm sure Klopp has a very good plan in place to make the squad more competitive next season.

Offline Jfor83

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1130 on: March 11, 2017, 04:24:11 PM »
An educated guess at what the squad will look like next season based on Klopp's choices and tactics...

Current squad:                         

                        Karius
                       Mignolet
Clyne    Matip           Lovren       Milner
Trent     Lucas          Klavan       Moreno
Randall  Gomez
                      Henderson
                         Can
                       Stewart
          Lallana              Wijnaldum
                                    Grujic
                                    Ejaria
 Mané                                   Coutinho
 Wilson                                  Ojo
 Kent                                     Woodburn
                    Firmino
                    Sturridge
                    Origi
                    Ings

There are 5 well-publicized issues with this squad:

- lack of a natural LB
- poor CB coverage (i.e. Lucas isn't a CB)
- lack of cover/alternative for Lallana in midfield
- lack of first-team winger other than Mané
- lack of a clinical striker

James Pearce said recently that he sees a big summer with 5-6 signings and a few "deadwood" leaving.

Considering the way Klopp likes to play, and the 4 issues listed above, it seems logical to think that the following would happen:

- Buy a creative midfielder so the squad isn't overly reliant on Lallana.
- Buy another winger (or two, depending on progress of Ojo, Wilson, etc)

Likely departures (according to Pearce): Lucas, Moreno, Sturridge... Ings' future looks uncertain too.

... meaning that with European football Klopp would probably want:

- Another CB, LB, and striker.

If anyone else leaves (Can? Mignolet?) then that would need to be accounted for too.

In summary:

In's: CB, LB, CM, LW, ST.
Out's: Lucas, Moreno, Sturridge

2017/18 projected squad:

                           Karius
                          Mignolet
Clyne        Matip        Lovren       LB
Trent           CB          Klavan       Milner
                 Gomez
                      Henderson
                        Can
                      Stewart
              Lallana          Wijnaldum
                 CM               Grujic
                                     Ejaria
   Mané                                       Coutinho
Wilson/Kent/Ojo/Woodburn          LW

                         Firmino
                           ST
                          Origi

Changes along these lines look pretty reasonable, and address the key tactical short-falls of the current squad listed earlier:

- lack of a natural LB
- poor CB coverage
- lack of cover/alternative for Lallana in midfield
- lack of first-team winger other than Mané
- lack of a clinical striker (to rotate with Firmino)

Those changes also re-balance the squad to keep players (eg. Firmino) having to be played out of position on the wing.

I think most would agree that the First XI is great, when everyone is in form, but lacks the quality to allow the same shape to be kept when there are injuries or loss of form for key players. The suggested changes completely address the squad shortfalls by adding quality where needed by providing balance in the squad depth-wise.

Looking forward to hearing some thoughts, but keeping more focus on the squad and tactics than on transfer speculations. :)

I think every single position in our team can be improved on and would like us to buy the best player it's possible for us to get whatever his position is and then work from there.

Offline deFacto

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1131 on: March 11, 2017, 05:42:38 PM »
Do you think it is realistic to expect a huge upgrade on Firmino at CF?

Just looking at Whoscored, here are the top 10 goal scorers this season under the age of 28...

1. Alexandre Lacazette   
2. Andrea Belotti
3. Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
4. Harry Kane
5. Romelu Lukaku
6. Mauro Icardi
7. Ciro Immobile
8. Timo Werner
9. Dele Alli
10. Antoine Griezmann

How many of those are attainable? Perhaps Lacazette, Belotti, Immobile, or Werner.... Though Werner is doubtful, as RB Leipzig have no reason to sell, and Immobile is not really an upgrade.

Beyond Lacazette or Belotti, how many strikers are realistically available as upgrades on Firmino?

Dembele at Celtic?
Alvaro Morata? Would Real Madrid sell?
Arkadiusz Milik (if fit)? Would Napoli sell?
Alexis Sanchez (if Arsenal would sell)? Probably too old and big wages for FSG though anyways.

Granted I'm not scout, but beyond a handful of players you're either getting into the territory of too old, not good enough, too expensive, or another young project player.

Worth remembering that Origi is still only 21 but already scoring at less than a goal every two games (according to transfermarkt). Perhaps the answer is to just give him time.

Feel free to suggest an alternative, given that you apparently think it's easy to upgrade Firmino :)

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Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1132 on: March 11, 2017, 08:51:11 PM »


I think its more a problem of clarity with our defence. If we are going to employ marauding fullbacks that are more attacking wingback than defenders, then we're going to need a better DM suited to snuffing out counterattacks, and providing much better cover for the back 2. At the same time, we'll need CBs who are pacy, aggressive, and have good awareness for runs in behind.

We've gone significant periods of winning consecutive games, and good defending which suggests to me that when we get the balance right, have adequate protection for our defenders, then our CBs aren't as bad as some people think. They are not world beaters, but they aren't the worst in the league. Without a good DM, I have a feeling that we could take any CB and make him look a bit worse than he is. It's no secret that ever since Mascherano and Xabi left, every single CB we've had hasn't looked up to it. If you look at any team with top CB's, invariably they have a decent DM or a very stable, organised back four that gives them protection. Having a vocal, commanding presence in GK probably helps too - and we don't have that either. This culminates in our CBs not ever really having confidence in whats going on in front of them or behind them, or to the left of them - naturally they will appear indecisive, slow to respond and caught out of position.

Offline BEAST

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1133 on: March 11, 2017, 10:31:32 PM »
Good analysis of our team on the Double Pivot podcast this week (its a good podcast - very nerdy and they're american so won't be for most people).

They point out our attack is basically as good as anyone's including against weaker teams but that we give up far too many quality chances against the dross.
Our expected goals conceded is actually worse against the worse teams ..... which is insane

Their diagnosis was that we over commit against weaker teams and leave too many holes and that our centre backs and goal keeper aren't good enough to save us when left exposed. (also pointing out that a lot wouldn't be the way we play)
They also point out that we've proved we can be super effective playing more compact because we do it against the big teams.

Intersting as they discuss - these things are usually just variance / luck but in our case this season it does seem to be a systemic issue against the lesser teams and has more to do with our defence than our attack

That's quite interesting.  As you know I'm probably more about the "bad luck" answer to our problems than most, but what they said sounds reasonable.

I'm just not sure how to solve it - well clearly the keeper needs to be upgraded.  But I don't know if say we had 25 million available to solve the problem how is the best way to do it ..... almost seems to me that against the lesser teams our midfield needs to be adjusted

Instead of Henderson we'd need a real destroyer / fouling machine who avoids yellow cards type in midfield .... basically someone like Kante but not as good as Kante

You could probably get away with super attacking midfielders in front of him ..... for sure Lallana and Gini but maybe even Lallana and Coutinho

And if you got someone that was a superstar at that role maybe they play in all the games and then Henderson has to compete for a spot with Gini to play in the 2 in front of the 1.

I dunno what you guys think?

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1134 on: March 11, 2017, 11:09:49 PM »
That's quite interesting.  As you know I'm probably more about the "bad luck" answer to our problems than most, but what they said sounds reasonable.

I'm just not sure how to solve it - well clearly the keeper needs to be upgraded.  But I don't know if say we had 25 million available to solve the problem how is the best way to do it ..... almost seems to me that against the lesser teams our midfield needs to be adjusted

Instead of Henderson we'd need a real destroyer / fouling machine who avoids yellow cards type in midfield .... basically someone like Kante but not as good as Kante

You could probably get away with super attacking midfielders in front of him ..... for sure Lallana and Gini but maybe even Lallana and Coutinho

And if you got someone that was a superstar at that role maybe they play in all the games and then Henderson has to compete for a spot with Gini to play in the 2 in front of the 1.

I dunno what you guys think?

Well upgrading personnel is obviously going to improve it - we've had some pretty weak centr back + keeper combos for a top team
But their point was to play against the lower teams closer to how we play vs the top teams (more compact - throwing less men forward, having the full backs - or at least one of them not quite so high)
There's no getting round the fact that it's VERY high risk having 2 centre backs playing a high line and then just one sitting midfielder. People keep discussing Henderson but he's about as mobile as you're gonna get or at least to the point where it's obviously not the problem.
To get away with how we're playing we'd need a couple of top notch rapid centre backs and a sweeper keeper but it would probably be easier just to make our shape a bit more conservative with the ball - and certainly to do this at 0-0 agaisnt weaker teams because going behind makes things so tough


Offline kingz

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1135 on: March 12, 2017, 06:30:47 AM »
Well upgrading personnel is obviously going to improve it - we've had some pretty weak centr back + keeper combos for a top team
But their point was to play against the lower teams closer to how we play vs the top teams (more compact - throwing less men forward, having the full backs - or at least one of them not quite so high)
There's no getting round the fact that it's VERY high risk having 2 centre backs playing a high line and then just one sitting midfielder. People keep discussing Henderson but he's about as mobile as you're gonna get or at least to the point where it's obviously not the problem.
To get away with how we're playing we'd need a couple of top notch rapid centre backs and a sweeper keeper but it would probably be easier just to make our shape a bit more conservative with the ball - and certainly to do this at 0-0 agaisnt weaker teams because going behind makes things so tough

Couldn't agree more and even with better players we still need balance.. Klopp is underestimating these teams. Against Bournemouth we were 3-1 up and most of our players were high up the field when we conceded, this will not happen if we are facing Chelsea for example .. Against Swansea after Firmino scored the equalizer Klavan was struggling and it was clear we needed Matip but we went more attacking and Swansea scored .. Against Sunderland they reached our goal easily think they had like 11 shots. Chelsea , a very good defensive team were saved by Courtois brilliant save there, it was crazy that we were so open and allowed them such space. These teams train everyday to be more direct, they can hurt us more than big teams ..

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1136 on: March 12, 2017, 06:34:51 PM »
Absolutely unreal tactics today.

I don't know if it was intentional or not but doing exactly and precisely what Burnley wanted us to do today and turn the game into a long ball, scrap for second balls fest was truly baffling. Mig, Matip and Klavan had 50 freaking long balls today. If it was at their place I could understand it because I'm seeing the entire season - as our build-up play is poor since day one - but to see at Anfield and to see us doing it even when we were a goal up when we needed to keep the ball on the deck and slow the tempo down was a huge surprise.

Every single team now is testing us early by pressing us high up the pitch hoping that we would kick it long and it's amazing that we are doing exactly what they want. This means that teams will keep doing it and against teams that wasn't much of an issue because they actually want to pass it around on the floor which suits us but when the ball is flying over our midfield for 90 mins you wonder what's the point.

We got away with it today as we've won from a very unlikely source but our issues still remain and on today's evidence they have even worsened. One thing is sure we'll need to find some balls to pass out from the back or we can say goodbye to Top 4 right here , right now.

Playing the way we did today we can go to W.Ham, Watford and Wba 50 times and lose every time because we're not equipped to play their way. I have no idea what the fuck are we doing.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1137 on: March 12, 2017, 06:39:15 PM »
Absolutely unreal tactics today.

I don't know if it was intentional or not but doing exactly and precisely what Burnley wanted us to do today and turn the game into a long ball, scrap for second balls fest was truly baffling. Mig, Matip and Klavan had 50 freaking long balls today. If it was at their place I could understand it because I'm seeing the entire season - as our build-up play is poor since day one - but to see at Anfield and to see us doing it even when we were a goal up when we needed to keep the ball on the deck and slow the tempo down was a huge surprise.

Every single team now is testing us early by pressing us high up the pitch hoping that we would kick it long and it's amazing that we are doing exactly what they want. This means that teams will keep doing it and against teams that wasn't much of an issue because they actually want to pass it around on the floor which suits us but when the ball is flying over our midfield for 90 mins you wonder what's the point.

We got away with it today as we've won from a very unlikely source but our issues still remain and on today's evidence they have even worsened. One thing is sure we'll need to find some balls to pass out from the back or we can say goodbye to Top 4 right here , right now.

Playing the way we did today we can go to W.Ham, Watford and Wba 50 times and lose every time because we're not equipped to play their way. I have no idea what the fuck are we doing.

Nice to finally agree with you about something on here :) .... second every word of that it's a massive problem
You can add both fullbacks into the roll call of punting shame too. (They also do it from inside the oppoments half)
Mignolet appears to lack either the confidence or ability to play anything on the deck into midfield or lofted over an attackers to a full back. I'm surprised Matip doesn't have more willingness to play it out thought 

Offline NativityinBlack

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1138 on: March 12, 2017, 06:42:16 PM »
We played like a team who was shit scared to lose. Everyone played safe, bar Gini. No one was taking risks with the ball, especially in our box. Where the hell did Matip's penetrating runs go ? Why wasn't Klavan offering better angles for Mignolet to pass ? Why was Mignolet so intent on hoofing ? The less said about Clyne (long ball to the right flank) and Milner ( oh look, I got the ball ! I should turn sideways and pass it infield ), the better. Why wasn't anyone making Burnley go back by showing some guts and running with the ball ?

Its a mental issue for me. Maybe if we play Moreno and Alex Arnold against lower table opposition, we'd show a lot more ambition but today, our defenders looked terrified.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1139 on: March 12, 2017, 06:46:37 PM »
We played like a team who was shit scared to lose. Everyone played safe, bar Gini. No one was taking risks with the ball, especially in our box. Where the hell did Matip's penetrating runs go ? Why wasn't Klavan offering better angles for Mignolet to pass ? Why was Mignolet so intent on hoofing ? The less said about Clyne (long ball to the right flank) and Milner ( oh look, I got the ball ! I should turn sideways and pass it infield ), the better. Why wasn't anyone making Burnley go back by showing some guts and running with the ball ?
Also , my grandma knows if opposition presses with two strikers you drop your 6 between your CBs to get numerical advantage so you could get out. Why on Earth are we not doing that? Why is Mig not even trying those diagonal passes out to FBs anymore at all? Some really strange things happening with us lately.

Offline Haggis36

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1140 on: March 12, 2017, 06:47:55 PM »
I think we can all agree that we need better players in a number of positions, but at what point does our complete and utter lack of tactical flexibility and our lack of answers to a fairly fundamental problem become a bigger talking point? It's like Klopp is just stubbornly persisting with the same terrible game plan with the arrogant belief that because we have better players we must win. You can say we don't have the players to play his way, but then surely he needs to adapt? Even if it's temporarily.

We got lucky today, but make no mistake it is far from a corner turned. Nine times out of ten, we don't win that game, and if we take the exact same approach into the rest of the season we won't finish in the top four.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1141 on: March 12, 2017, 07:00:25 PM »
I think we can all agree that we need better players in a number of positions, but at what point does our complete and utter lack of tactical flexibility and our lack of answers to a fairly fundamental problem become a bigger talking point? It's like Klopp is just stubbornly persisting with the same terrible game plan with the arrogant belief that because we have better players we must win. You can say we don't have the players to play his way, but then surely he needs to adapt? Even if it's temporarily.

We got lucky today, but make no mistake it is far from a corner turned. Nine times out of ten, we don't win that game, and if we take the exact same approach into the rest of the season we won't finish in the top four.

The answer depends on whether what happened today was the game plan
Is it the game plan to hoof it from the back and for the full backs to punt it into the box and for our defenders to get caught out of position multiple times in the first 20 minutes?
It's genuinely hard to un pick what's the manager / coaches and what's players

Offline Chris~

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1142 on: March 12, 2017, 07:01:37 PM »
I think we can all agree that we need better players in a number of positions, but at what point does our complete and utter lack of tactical flexibility and our lack of answers to a fairly fundamental problem become a bigger talking point? It's like Klopp is just stubbornly persisting with the same terrible game plan with the arrogant belief that because we have better players we must win. You can say we don't have the players to play his way, but then surely he needs to adapt? Even if it's temporarily.

We got lucky today, but make no mistake it is far from a corner turned. Nine times out of ten, we don't win that game, and if we take the exact same approach into the rest of the season we won't finish in the top four.
We had a different approach today, after we went ahead we defended a lot closer to how we have against the better teams in the league and didn't seem to want to take any risks. I guess it was an improvement on giving up too much in defence to create not a whole lot against these sides, but neither side creates much is not something we can look at with much confidence.

Offline Haggis36

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1143 on: March 12, 2017, 07:07:39 PM »
The answer depends on whether what happened today was the game plan
Is it the game plan to hoof it from the back and for the full backs to punt it into the box and for our defenders to get caught out of position multiple times in the first 20 minutes?
It's genuinely hard to un pick what's the manager / coaches and what's players

Like most things, the answer will be somewhere in the middle, but I can't get past the fact that, as average as some of these players are, we're struggling against absolute cloggers in most cases, and that has to come back to tactics at some point.

I'm sure Klopp doesn't encourage the hoofing, or the full backs to sling in useless crosses and constantly be caught out of position, but then he has to change it doesn't he? Try different personnel, try a different set-up that gives the players more options on the ball, try a different shape that suits what we have, try and find a better balance in the side.

It's very reminiscent of Rodgers - struggling to score goals, just bung on as many attacking players as is feasible and hope something comes of it. We need better balance throughout the side as much as we need more quality, and I'm not sure Klopp is any closer to achieving it. As long as that is the case we are always going to lurch from the sublime to the ridiculous depending on the day, and we'll never have the consistency required to challenge.

Offline Chris~

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1144 on: March 12, 2017, 07:08:47 PM »
The answer depends on whether what happened today was the game plan
Is it the game plan to hoof it from the back and for the full backs to punt it into the box and for our defenders to get caught out of position multiple times in the first 20 minutes?
It's genuinely hard to un pick what's the manager / coaches and what's players

'It was about formation, it was about orientation, that’s what we spoke about at half-time. When we played the long balls, we felt not that comfortable today. The plan from the beginning was to mix it up, playing build-up and long ball in a formation for the second balls. '
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/256472-boss-on-burnley-victory-emre-can-and-liverpool-s-mentality

Definitely sounds like it was at least part Klopp instructed.

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1145 on: March 12, 2017, 07:12:20 PM »
'...long ball in a formation for the second balls. '
I kind of noticed this, we did win a few second balls, and against a team who are hard to break down they can often be a good catalyst for catching them flat footed, if you do win the second ball you are between the two banks of four and running at the defence.

We didn't execute it brilliantly but I don't think it was the worst plan - in saying we planned to mix it up, perhaps the nervousness of the players at 0-1 encouraged the 'low risk' option of punting it a bit too much. We won the game so it wasn't that bad, in the end we were an effective team today because we got the result. I wondered if Lucas was brought on because he's decent in the air as well.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1146 on: March 12, 2017, 07:29:39 PM »
'It was about formation, it was about orientation, that’s what we spoke about at half-time. When we played the long balls, we felt not that comfortable today. The plan from the beginning was to mix it up, playing build-up and long ball in a formation for the second balls. '
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/256472-boss-on-burnley-victory-emre-can-and-liverpool-s-mentality

Definitely sounds like it was at least part Klopp instructed.

In its own way that's the most surprising thing I've read since he came here. odd... although his syntax is a bit mangled there - he could be saying the opposite?!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 07:34:22 PM by JackWard33 »

Offline clinical

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1147 on: March 12, 2017, 07:45:51 PM »
Klopp still hasn't worked out how to beat poor teams. It's a huge worry. We were lucky today.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1148 on: March 12, 2017, 07:54:20 PM »
Klopp still hasn't worked out how to beat poor teams. It's a huge worry. We were lucky today.
Yeah, it's almost as if these results never happened...

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WBA 2-1
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Watford 6-1
Sunderland 2-0
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Burnley 2-1


Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1149 on: March 12, 2017, 07:55:07 PM »
Cryff always used to say if you pass out from the back well you'll play well.

You simply cannot cheat this. We are not smarter than City, Arsenal, Spurs who are all good against the dross. All of them take these risks but we seem to think we're smarter by not taking risks , hoofing the ball and then wondering why the likes of Lallana and Phil look dreadful.

If long balls weren't turning this kind of players to shit then everybody would be doing it, they don't take risks at the back just for the sake of it. When a team like Burnley presses you high up the pitch you can't look at it as danger and hoof , you have to relish it and see it for what it is - a huge opportunity to pass through them which guarantees you chances of high quality.

You should relish these teams want to push players up the pitch instead of parking the bus from minute one. In this regard we were nowhere near good enough today.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1150 on: March 12, 2017, 09:44:43 PM »
How bad are we at clearing the ball from our own area? Most of our clearances seem to be hacked or headed straight to an opposition player, and even when they fall to one of our own the first pass is misplaced way too often. I include all of our defenders in this criticism too, Matip has been just as poor as everyone else.

We're also really bad at attacking the opposition box, we're so ineffective at corners the team doesn't even seem to want to try them any more, hence going short all the time and those odd passes to Wijnaldum today.

If we were better in both of these areas our tactics wouldn't be such a hot topic I think, we'd still have the issue of teams breaking against us but we'd have more chance of scoring and less chance of conceding in these tight games.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1151 on: March 12, 2017, 09:55:44 PM »
How bad are we at clearing the ball from our own area? Most of our clearances seem to be hacked or headed straight to an opposition player, and even when they fall to one of our own the first pass is misplaced way too often. I include all of our defenders in this criticism too, Matip has been just as poor as everyone else.
Yeah, our clearances are frequently poor. We don't have enough players who take control of those physical battles in our own area and unfortunately some of our players don't seem to understand the principle of clearing it deep and wide rather than centrally. Matip can actually be one of the worst for this.
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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1152 on: March 12, 2017, 10:55:06 PM »
Absolutely unreal tactics today.

I don't know if it was intentional or not but doing exactly and precisely what Burnley wanted us to do today and turn the game into a long ball, scrap for second balls fest was truly baffling. Mig, Matip and Klavan had 50 freaking long balls today. If it was at their place I could understand it because I'm seeing the entire season - as our build-up play is poor since day one - but to see at Anfield and to see us doing it even when we were a goal up when we needed to keep the ball on the deck and slow the tempo down was a huge surprise.

Every single team now is testing us early by pressing us high up the pitch hoping that we would kick it long and it's amazing that we are doing exactly what they want. This means that teams will keep doing it and against teams that wasn't much of an issue because they actually want to pass it around on the floor which suits us but when the ball is flying over our midfield for 90 mins you wonder what's the point.

We got away with it today as we've won from a very unlikely source but our issues still remain and on today's evidence they have even worsened. One thing is sure we'll need to find some balls to pass out from the back or we can say goodbye to Top 4 right here , right now.

Playing the way we did today we can go to W.Ham, Watford and Wba 50 times and lose every time because we're not equipped to play their way. I have no idea what the fuck are we doing.
Broadly agree, although I think the issue was less so the long balls per se and more where we were putting them. If we'd have played long into the channels, we would have forced them to turn around and run back and that would have allowed us to push up and press. Instead, we went long to Origi dropping off the front and partly because he was losing most of the first balls and partly because Burnley are used to fighting for second balls, we weren't really achieving anything. We played into Burnley's hands because they were holding their lines relatively high, which made it easier for them to play it over the top to Gray and then support for the second ball. It also made it harder for us to sustain any pressure. The one time we did play long into the channel, Mane beat Mee for pace and slightly over-hit his cross for what would have been an almost certain goal for Origi. That was the major mistake, I think.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 10:59:51 PM by 007.lankyguy »
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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1153 on: March 13, 2017, 12:43:04 PM »
Cryff always used to say if you pass out from the back well you'll play well.

You simply cannot cheat this. We are not smarter than City, Arsenal, Spurs who are all good against the dross. All of them take these risks but we seem to think we're smarter by not taking risks , hoofing the ball and then wondering why the likes of Lallana and Phil look dreadful.

If long balls weren't turning this kind of players to shit then everybody would be doing it, they don't take risks at the back just for the sake of it. When a team like Burnley presses you high up the pitch you can't look at it as danger and hoof , you have to relish it and see it for what it is - a huge opportunity to pass through them which guarantees you chances of high quality.

You should relish these teams want to push players up the pitch instead of parking the bus from minute one. In this regard we were nowhere near good enough today.

Totally agree with this right here.  Even the next day I'm still so disappointed with how many long balls we played.  Over the last few months I think the team has gone through a bit of an identity crisis where we have gone away from what made us so successful the first part of the season.  Now is not the time to go away from what made us so good but to get back to it.  Our players/team simply aren't suited to dealing with long ball after long ball and against teams that play that way on a daily basis we are always going to struggle.  Keep the ball on the floor, play between the lines, get midfield runners beyond the striker, that's what made us so good the first part of the year.  Not Mignolet bypassing our best players by hoofing it 65 yards up the pitch every time he touches the ball. 

Offline Weytske

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1154 on: March 13, 2017, 02:30:02 PM »
I kind of noticed this, we did win a few second balls, and against a team who are hard to break down they can often be a good catalyst for catching them flat footed, if you do win the second ball you are between the two banks of four and running at the defence.

We didn't execute it brilliantly but I don't think it was the worst plan - in saying we planned to mix it up, perhaps the nervousness of the players at 0-1 encouraged the 'low risk' option of punting it a bit too much. We won the game so it wasn't that bad, in the end we were an effective team today because we got the result. I wondered if Lucas was brought on because he's decent in the air as well.
Like we did for our first goal against Arsenal. I'm quite confident It was indeed Klopp's plan to go long at times and win the second ball in specific areas. I remember an interview with Lijnders a couple of months ago where he said we would focus on actually losing the ball in the centre of the pitch, because it's the place where we want to win it back, not on the wings.

On the other hand, like Klopp said, it was probably never the plan to play long balls the entire time but instead to mix it up more often. Which we obviously didn't do enough.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1155 on: March 13, 2017, 05:03:54 PM »
“They don't have a Plan B in terms of being able to control the game in a different style, and when teams don't allow them to use their energy to press they're far less effective.

It may be unfortunate that the statement above is coming from somebody like Neville but he is 100%, absolutely and totally spot on. One sentence that cuts through all the bullshit and gets right to the gist of our issue.

The good news is that for two years now we have built very good foundations in terms of our plan A that is functioning almost to perfection. This season it's too late to address this problem but if Klopp gets to be successful at it we'll have a complete team equipped to deal with any challenge and our title aspirations will become real. It all depends imo on how good we become when we decide we need to play a bit differently to how we usually play.

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1156 on: March 14, 2017, 02:14:18 AM »
If Firmino is our first choice up front then nothing will change.
Totally. What is the point in him dropping so deep to get the ball when the oppo defenders are more than happy playing 10-15 yards back with whole game in front of them?

I also think another issue we have is being too nice. Aside from Lucas how many respect those aspects of the dark arts that chelsea and yernited have which is how to break up play and momentum.Take one for the team.
 

I remember being impressed at how the Italian team took turns to heavily out muscle of the other teams star man, thus lessening the chance of any red cards

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1157 on: March 14, 2017, 11:47:32 AM »
We played like a team who was shit scared to lose. Everyone played safe, bar Gini. No one was taking risks with the ball, especially in our box. Where the hell did Matip's penetrating runs go ? Why wasn't Klavan offering better angles for Mignolet to pass ? Why was Mignolet so intent on hoofing ? The less said about Clyne (long ball to the right flank) and Milner ( oh look, I got the ball ! I should turn sideways and pass it infield ), the better. Why wasn't anyone making Burnley go back by showing some guts and running with the ball ?

Its a mental issue for me. Maybe if we play Moreno and Alex Arnold against lower table opposition, we'd show a lot more ambition but today, our defenders looked terrified.

It basically exposed the technical deficiencies of our back 4. It was an old fashioned 442 but what the did was box our fullbacks in knowing they've neither the pace (milner) nor the technical ability (Clyne) to push forward of their own will. It's no surprise the times we did get in behind it was from Mane moving wide and then running the channel. Their two forwards occupied the central defenders, it cut off the passes into Lallana and Wijnaldum/Coutinho for the most part.

The only man who was spare for the most part was Emre. Yes he played well BUT he should have absolutely killed Burnley from that area, they showed him almost no interest and it's exactly the kind of game where - if you go back 9 years - Alonso used to take the piss because he'd work his arse off making movements into possession and then switching with diagonals to get the play moving. The few times Emre did play quick it hurt burnley, but for me he didn't do it anywhere near enough.

I think it's where we are some way off what Klopps Dortmund team was. They could kill you through the middle and out wide but we're only good at the former for now and I think the latter can only be sorted with new personnel in the summer.

Edit:
Agree the side needs more snide. But the art of doing it well is a sly trip on the half way line, Arbeloa was wonderful at that, less so Lucas kicking someone over in position to hurt us.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 11:50:30 AM by Chalky Boots »

Offline penga

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1158 on: March 14, 2017, 02:52:28 PM »
We ended up hoofing it a bit more often than we should but there has been a clear instruction by Klopp in recent weeks to go long more often than before. It also has a lot to do with our CBs and CDM being offering to receive the pass under a bit of pressure which just didn't happen in recent games at all so it's not all on Mignolet. When I analysed it a bit earlier in the season Mignolet actually had 77% passing accuracy which was the 2nd highest in the league behind Bravo and also one of the shortest distances at 32m average pass length so he was absolutely fine when we played like that with the short passing style and he can do the 1st time ones contrary to people's perception. Now the accuracy is down to 67% and length up to 43m which is still reasonable considering the increased punting. However just by watching him his long punts seemingly lack accuracy at times and this coupled with the fact that our targets he hoofs to are usually not the tallest or best in the air means we aren't winning many first balls so actually in the Burnley game we ended up moving Can up the pitch in these situations to take the aerial duel from the hoofs and then set up a formation around that to win the 2nd balls.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics
« Reply #1159 on: March 14, 2017, 03:38:40 PM »
We ended up hoofing it a bit more often than we should but there has been a clear instruction by Klopp in recent weeks to go long more often than before. It also has a lot to do with our CBs and CDM being offering to receive the pass under a bit of pressure which just didn't happen in recent games at all so it's not all on Mignolet.
Worst thing about this is there is a real possibility Mignolet has been instructed to go long because Klopp knows how terrible he is with the ball at his feet. It's a horrible compromise on Klopp's part because I can never imagine him condoning so much hoofing while at the same time building a front 6 that includes players like Gini, Lallana, Mane, Coutinho, Firmino - all of which are desperately unequipped to play the way we have recently. So yeah it's not Mignolet's fault but I wonder if we had Reina as our keeper for example would we have not insisted on passing out from the back much more than we did.