Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[Dim Glas]

can't wait till the transfer forum is open, so all the weeping and gnashing of teeth can be moved in there 

[El Lobo]

we have to get better. we have a ton of money to spend with tv money; prem money; champions league money and those we will shift out.  we're going to get more than one starting player in this summer or we're not doing this right.

Really think people need to try and move away from what their fantasy idea of us spending money is, just to avoid disappointment. We're clearly happy to spend big, we've smashed our transfer record a few times in the last few seasons. But we've also shown we're happy to wait for a player we really think will improve us rather than give up and go for someone else. We had the same sort of mind-set in the summer when people were moaning that we wouldn't move on from VVD and get someone available like Keane or Maguire.

[clinical]

we have to get better. we have a ton of money to spend with tv money; prem money; champions league money and those we will shift out.  we're going to get more than one starting player in this summer or we're not doing this right.

People say the same thing every summer. Our overall spend doesn't change whether that's the manager's choice or owners no one will know. We aren't suddenly going to go from £15m net to £100m though like many expect. We will improve though. Klopp will only buy players who fit the system. If there wasn't anyone out there who couldn't play our way he wouldn't buy anyone.

[Mr_Shane]

we have to get better. we have a ton of money to spend with tv money; prem money; champions league money and those we will shift out.  we're going to get more than one starting player in this summer or we're not doing this right.

Have faith and believe in this manager mate. The fans who watched us beat City Three times, put 5 five goals past Roma in the Champions League semi final certainly do. We have the privilege of watching a world class team being built right in front of our own eyes here and now it seems to me at least that every other team is **** even two of those teams who can go out and buy any player they want. 

[MNAA]

By now we should all know how Klopp operates. He will buy the RIGHT player. Not the most expensive. Not the most popular. Not the most glamorous. Not the player that fans want him to buy. Not the player that pundits or media wants him to buy etc, etc. Whether it’s Klavan, Robertson, Karius, Oxlade, Wijnaldum, Mane, Salah or Van Dijk - he bought them because they fit into his profile of players.

He will buy a few more this summer outside of Keita but they may not be the players you want or you expect him to buy

[JCB]

See we are discussing the roles of Neves & Jorginho again. I will repost this from a week or so ago which is my view of each of their roles.

Cheers for that Babs, but it didn't really answer my question, I guess it's my fault for not phrasing it properly.

I had read that post of yours before and I'm aware of his current role in the Wolves team and what he brings to it but I was more interested if he had the attributes, mentality and maybe even the experience to be shifted into Hendo's position as a plan A/B.

After all Klopp has been known to buy players and play them in different positions and I was wondering if Neves could fall in the same category or whether he would be purchased to play in the roles that he currently plays.

Djozer and LiP have come close to answering my question (thanks guys). At 1.8 he's only 2 inches shorter than Hendo but LiP does seem to suggest he doesn't have much of a spring on him so that may rule him out aerially.

At the moment I don't have all the answers but so far it seems to suggest that the answer to my question is no.

[JP-65]

Interesting article on the FC Salzburg manager (former Klopp teammate & player) and his former blogger assistant

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/uefa-europa-league/2310/blog/post/3472683/red-bull-salzburg-europa-league-run-owes-much-to-rene-maric-and-marco-rose?src=com

[BabuYagu]

At the moment I don't have all the answers but so far it seems to suggest that the answer to my question is no.

I would tentatively agree.

Some of the confusion on TAA & Neves probably stems from the fact that Ljinders describes them as #6 when playing in midfield - which is actually the Gini role. Ljinders tactical system is the classic Dutch 3-D-3. They aren't part of the deepest line in possession and transitions, the #6 is in the next line forward. The guy I described who doesn't get ahead of the play and protects our attacks. Has to be at an extremely high level tactically to do so. This is the hole filler, if you will.

Interesting article on the FC Salzburg manager (former Klopp teammate & player) and his former blogger assistant

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/uefa-europa-league/2310/blog/post/3472683/red-bull-salzburg-europa-league-run-owes-much-to-rene-maric-and-marco-rose?src=com

I really cannot recommend highly enough for people to dig into Rene Maric blog.

[SteveZissou]

Anyone else thinking that Klopp's 7-year contract is short?
Last season he was hinting at being here even longer than that... but this season we got enough hints that he will stop. Seems part reason due to family holiday resting time, and another part is some issues he has with Premier League scheduling.

When he signed the extension I was delighted but also afraid cos when other managers extended their contracts, things went wrong after that (even some players would get injured after contract extensions)... but Klopp's getting better and better.

So, I was thinking that the club should make a plan to give him that 8th year off, and offer him an extension from the 9th year onward... what you think?

I believe it'd be crucial to maintain dominance. We don't want to just win some trophies during these 7 years... we must always be thinking beyond that. The seasonal cycles go on and we always have to be ahead of the likes United and City.

[Dim Glas]

Anyone else thinking that Klopp's 7-year contract is short?
Last season he was hinting at being here even longer than that... but this season we got enough hints that he will stop. Seems part reason due to family holiday resting time, and another part is some issues he has with Premier League scheduling.

When he signed the extension I was delighted but also afraid cos when other managers extended their contracts, things went wrong after that (even some players would get injured after contract extensions)... but Klopp's getting better and better.

So, I was thinking that the club should make a plan to give him that 8th year off, and offer him an extension from the 9th year onward... what you think?

I believe it'd be crucial to maintain dominance. We don't want to just win some trophies during these 7 years... we must always be thinking beyond that. The seasonal cycles go on and we always have to be ahead of the likes United and City.

there is no point overthinking it is my opinion!

So many things can happen, enjoy the ride.

Different to many managers, Kloppo I am pretty sure from all he has said over the years, can switch off from football managment (i.e. very different to the likes of Wenger). He's always prioritised family above all, and will have no problem retiring when he wants to. He has also said by the way he'll never manage another team in England.

But no point worrying about it, he's in no hurry to move.

[CraigDS]

Anyone else thinking that Klopp's 7-year contract is short?
Last season he was hinting at being here even longer than that... but this season we got enough hints that he will stop. Seems part reason due to family holiday resting time, and another part is some issues he has with Premier League scheduling.

When he signed the extension I was delighted but also afraid cos when other managers extended their contracts, things went wrong after that (even some players would get injured after contract extensions)... but Klopp's getting better and better.

So, I was thinking that the club should make a plan to give him that 8th year off, and offer him an extension from the 9th year onward... what you think?

I believe it'd be crucial to maintain dominance. We don't want to just win some trophies during these 7 years... we must always be thinking beyond that. The seasonal cycles go on and we always have to be ahead of the likes United and City.

Why worry? He's tied down for ages yet so enjoy it. I'm sure he and the club will sort it when things get closer.

[SteveZissou]

Why worry? He's tied down for ages yet so enjoy it. I'm sure he and the club will sort it when things get closer.

It's the first time I've felt a 7-year contract is short. It just says a lot about the man.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I would tentatively agree.

Some of the confusion on TAA & Neves probably stems from the fact that Ljinders describes them as #6 when playing in midfield - which is actually the Gini role. Ljinders tactical system is the classic Dutch 3-D-3. They aren't part of the deepest line in possession and transitions, the #6 is in the next line forward. The guy I described who doesn't get ahead of the play and protects our attacks. Has to be at an extremely high level tactically to do so. This is the hole filler, if you will.

Indeed. The #4 in this system is the #6 in a four-back system:

--------1
2------5--------3
-------4
----6-----8
-------10
7------9--------11

However, the #4 is also considered the traditional "stopper" in the back line, which makes the 6 and 8 a double-pivot in real terms. When talking about the Dutch diamond, we always have to remember that they are using the back three with a "sweeper/stopper" - the #5 and the #4 - in order to create three vertical diamonds:



So when Ljinders talked about the #6, there might have been some ambiguity about his statements, because the #4 (stopper) is considered part of the back line rather than the midfield line.

[clinical]

By now we should all know how Klopp operates. He will buy the RIGHT player. Not the most expensive. Not the most popular. Not the most glamorous. Not the player that fans want him to buy. Not the player that pundits or media wants him to buy etc, etc. Whether it’s Klavan, Robertson, Karius, Oxlade, Wijnaldum, Mane, Salah or Van Dijk - he bought them because they fit into his profile of players.

He will buy a few more this summer outside of Keita but they may not be the players you want or you expect him to buy

Well we know for fact he likes Brandt and Sessegnon. No one can argue that.

Two young players that said no because they wanted to develop at their current clubs. I think Klopp will like that and won't be put off at all. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we go back for both, I mean why wouldn't we?

[Gutzon Borglum]

Sessegnon would be such a great signing because not only is he homegrown, young and can back up Robbo at leftback (I assume Moreno won't want to hand around as 2nd choice forever), but he can also provide a back up option as a wide forward.. And we know he has an eye for goal.

Him+a top class attacker as our "Coutinho replacement" would all off a sudden give us plenty of depth up top.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Sessegnon would be such a great signing because not only is he homegrown, young and can back up Robbo at leftback (I assume Moreno won't want to hand around as 2nd choice forever), but he can also provide a back up option as a wide forward.. And we know he has an eye for goal.

Him+a top class attacker as our "Coutinho replacement" would all off a sudden give us plenty of depth up top.

But then what motivation does Sessegnon have to come to Liverpool, assuming we do still want him?

To be second choice at left-back and fifth choice in our attack? 

These young players we're being linked with now, the likes of Sessegnon and Maddison, aren't going to be happy to come to Liverpool to make up the numbers.  And if we're not prepared to offer better than that, they'll go elsewhere.

[BabuYagu]

But then what motivation does Sessegnon have to come to Liverpool, assuming we do still want him?

To be second choice at left-back and fifth choice in our attack? 

These young players we're being linked with now, the likes of Sessegnon and Maddison, aren't going to be happy to come to Liverpool to make up the numbers.  And if we're not prepared to offer better than that, they'll go elsewhere.

Not to mention as an attacker, Harry Wilson has impressed just as much, if not more, in the Championship in his short time there at an inferior club. If you were scouting young, left footed wide forwards in teh Championship right now - he is the best of the bunch.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

has anyone actually watched Sessegnon play a match?

Can't say I have, but his youtube all touches vids making him look fairly limited if i'm honest. Definitely not a patch on Pulisic, and as Babu points out, not any better than Wilson (although he's got a couple of years to improve on those guys).

[BrandoLFC]

Was watching the Europa League highlights and then looked up Thauvin's stats.  Somewhat like Depay I think you need to take Ligue 1 with a grain of salt considering that the majority of clubs have no money.  With that said did he ever show anything like this at Newcastle?  The guy looks like a beast now.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Was watching the Europa League highlights and then looked up Thauvin's stats.  Somewhat like Depay I think you need to take Ligue 1 with a grain of salt considering that the majority of clubs have no money.  With that said did he ever show anything like this at Newcastle?  The guy looks like a beast now.

No goals or assists in his limited minutes it seems

[PoetryInMotion]

has anyone actually watched Sessegnon play a match?

Can't say I have, but his youtube all touches vids making him look fairly limited if i'm honest. Definitely not a patch on Pulisic, and as Babu points out, not any better than Wilson (although he's got a couple of years to improve on those guys).

I saw him a couple of games and he didn't look as special as he's made out, agreed that it's a small ample space of eye test. I understand he could be a one in a generation talent, but he's just that - a 'talent'. He's still quite a way behind the likes of Pulisic & Bailey in development, which is expected considering his age, but I'm not sure for us that we need to start going into that signing 'potentials' route again. If we're buying for a wide forward position, we need to be able to seamlessly fit in an attacker instead of Mane or Salah when needed, so that player should be accomplished - I'm thinking high and I'm thinking Fekir for attack & Lemar for that Coutinho's position (midfield/attack as required). What's the point in getting Sessegnon, when having Wilson already in our ranks, or in getting Maddison while having Woodburn in our ranks? There's not much, I would think.

[PoetryInMotion]

Was watching the Europa League highlights and then looked up Thauvin's stats.  Somewhat like Depay I think you need to take Ligue 1 with a grain of salt considering that the majority of clubs have no money.  With that said did he ever show anything like this at Newcastle?  The guy looks like a beast now.

Also, you have to consider that some of these players had earned moves abroad probably too early in their career, especially PL is a different kind of pressure, both Depay & Thauvin are in that category for me. They would do better in their next moves I think.

[greeny01]

Anyone else worried about Roma looking for bookings and sendings off on Weds...Last 2 CL games if I remember correctly TAA got booked early doors but saw the game through clearly ...I just think Roma will defo target that in desperation and Klopp will have to react to it and possibly maybe look to Clyne on Weds but he'd have to start tomorrow for me for that to happen.  Be interesting to see how Klopp approaches the 2nd leg, but knowing him it will be same again...Thoughts ?

[Flaccido Dongingo]

But then what motivation does Sessegnon have to come to Liverpool, assuming we do still want him?

To be second choice at left-back and fifth choice in our attack? 

These young players we're being linked with now, the likes of Sessegnon and Maddison, aren't going to be happy to come to Liverpool to make up the numbers.  And if we're not prepared to offer better than that, they'll go elsewhere.

Doesn't Sessegnon want to stay in London?

[Djimi Smicer34]

or in getting Maddison while having Woodburn in our ranks? There's not much, I would think.

Because we want a midfielder to improve the first-team squad.

I rate Woodburn very highly and think he's got an extremely bright future ahead of him, but you sign Maddison because he's scored fifteen goals this season and assisted a further eleven.  He isn't a kid we'd looking to bring in to make up the numbers.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Doesn't Sessegnon want to stay in London?

That was reportedly the case last summer, not sure if it would be now.

[Dougle]

Anyone else worried about Roma looking for bookings and sendings off on Weds...Last 2 CL games if I remember correctly TAA got booked early doors but saw the game through clearly ...I just think Roma will defo target that in desperation and Klopp will have to react to it and possibly maybe look to Clyne on Weds but he'd have to start tomorrow for me for that to happen.  Be interesting to see how Klopp approaches the 2nd leg, but knowing him it will be same again...Thoughts ?

We have Hendo, TTA and Lovren on a yellow after Anfield. If any of them pick up another are they out of the final, if we get there ?

[greeny01]

We have Hendo, TTA and Lovren on a yellow after Anfield. If any of them pick up another are they out of the final, if we get there ?

From what I gather they reset after the QTR Final so only way you'd miss the final is if you got a red...rule change I believe to stop as many players missing the final as has been the case for many years...

[Too early for flapjacks?]

We probably need to add two players who are genuine alternatives to Mane, Salah and Bobby. I wonder if Quincy Promes would be an option again. He was close to joining Southampton for £20mil in January so he wouldn't cost the earth. He can play across the front 3, would be available for all of pre-season, and his numbers are pretty impressive.

[BrandoLFC]

From what I gather they reset after the QTR Final so only way you'd miss the final is if you got a red...rule change I believe to stop as many players missing the final as has been the case for many years...

The only way you miss the final is if you get a red or retroactive punishment for excessive force.

Because we want a midfielder to improve the first-team squad.

I rate Woodburn very highly and think he's got an extremely bright future ahead of him, but you sign Maddison because he's scored fifteen goals this season and assisted a further eleven.  He isn't a kid we'd looking to bring in to make up the numbers.

I'm all in on Maddison, think we could do a lot worse.  Rumors were we were even looking at him in January, I wouldn't be surprised based on what I've seen on him and the stats he has.  He'd also fit the model of young and a big upside.  Keita + Maddison to our current setup would not be a bad haul.

No goals or assists in his limited minutes it seems

Right, would need to watch more of him but just from a stats perspective he's only behind Neymar in a lot of categories for Ligue 1.

[cdav]

has anyone actually watched Sessegnon play a match?

Can't say I have, but his youtube all touches vids making him look fairly limited if i'm honest. Definitely not a patch on Pulisic, and as Babu points out, not any better than Wilson (although he's got a couple of years to improve on those guys).

Is Pulisic all that though? His numbers aren't great at the moment and I don't think he is a natural fit for our front line who look to get into goalscoring positions within the width of the goal and I don't see us looking to change formation to suit a Pulisic type wide player.

Any wide forward we buy has to have productive numbers- surely that has been proven by Mane and Salah. Sessegnon has very intelligent movement and repeatedly gets into scorig positions at a very young age- I think he makes sense for us but there are other young wide players like Bailey who would be a good option too.

[Dougle]

From what I gather they reset after the QTR Final so only way you'd miss the final is if you got a red...rule change I believe to stop as many players missing the final as has been the case for many years...

That is a relief. Cheers.

[Dim Glas]

Is Pulisic all that though? His numbers aren't great at the moment and I don't think he is a natural fit for our front line who look to get into goalscoring positions within the width of the goal and I don't see us looking to change formation to suit a Pulisic type wide player.

Any wide forward we buy has to have productive numbers- surely that has been proven by Mane and Salah. Sessegnon has very intelligent movement and repeatedly gets into scorig positions at a very young age- I think he makes sense for us but there are other young wide players like Bailey who would be a good option too.

he's every bit a number 10 as he is a winger.

He isnt' having a great season that is correct, but there's been a lot of chopping and changing in Dortmund, a lot of unrest, 2 different coaches, and a very defensive coach in Peter Stöger who isn't the best for him. He's a big talent and I think Klopp would get the absolute best out of him. Not that I expect them to go for him like! Maybe one day.

Bailey I am wary of cos of his recent petulance at Leverkusen, and his father sticking his nose in, that sort of stuff always makes me a bit uneasy with players!

[PoetryInMotion]

Because we want a midfielder to improve the first-team squad.

I rate Woodburn very highly and think he's got an extremely bright future ahead of him, but you sign Maddison because he's scored fifteen goals this season and assisted a further eleven.  He isn't a kid we'd looking to bring in to make up the numbers.

Premier League is a big step-up from the Championship. If we're upgrading the squad at this point, (for depth or quality) of a team that's already doing wonders and beating big teams, the aim has to be higher. We don't want to spend a big sum for players who have to make a big step up to play for us as a regular or compete with our current options, who're all playing to a high level. This is a crucial window imo, where if we need to take the next step, we need to be sure of what we're doing - like the Keita and Van Dijk signings and Maddison simply doesn't belong in that category. We're better of giving Cup games to Woodburn and getting a genuine upgrade, than a speculative one.

We can afford to wait on the prospective players, pick them up in a few years if they show it at a higher level. We can afford to do that, because there'll always be promising young players coming up every year. What we can't afford to do is spend money and then spend some more later to correct the failures like the likes of United or City do.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Premier League is a big step-up from the Championship. If we're upgrading the squad at this point, (for depth or quality) of a team that's already doing wonders and beating big teams, the aim has to be higher.

Does it?

This is what I think is going to be interesting about this summer - everyone says they trust Klopp and the club in regards to recruitment.  Will they if someone like Maddison is our midfield signing?

Last summer a vocal section of our supporters were arguing that we should have been aspiring to better than Andrew Robertson and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain; those signings have worked out pretty well so far.  So if Klopp looks at Maddison and sees a goalscorer and a creator, someone who can link midfield and attack and play the sort of passes that the front three will thrive on, are we going to trust him?

[Eeyore]

Really think people need to try and move away from what their fantasy idea of us spending money is, just to avoid disappointment. We're clearly happy to spend big, we've smashed our transfer record a few times in the last few seasons. But we've also shown we're happy to wait for a player we really think will improve us rather than give up and go for someone else. We had the same sort of mind-set in the summer when people were moaning that we wouldn't move on from VVD and get someone available like Keane or Maguire.

We aren't really happy to spend big though. Our big spends over the last few years have been funded by outgoing transfers.

If you are stupid enough to look at Carroll being a big spend at £35m and VVD being a big spend at £75m then fair enough but you have to balance that against the likes of Torres being sold for £50m or Coutinho for £150m then that is your problem.

Klopp is a genius manager and is covering up the issues in exactly the way Rafa did.

Give this squad to a Hodgson and we would be back were  we started from.

[JCB]

I remember saying it in one of these threads around the time when he joined us "Klopp doesn't buy superstars, he makes them". Nothing in the last 2 years has made me change my mind, if anything it's been vindicated.

Whoever he buys, I'll be right behind them.

[RyanBabel19]

Depends what makes you a 'superstar' and how that is defined

I agreed with it before... but we've bought two of the best players in their position in the world since last summer

[JCB]

Depends what makes you a 'superstar' and how that is defined

I agreed with it before... but we've bought two of the best players in their position in the world since last summer

That's a good question but I doubt anybody would call VVD one of the best players in his position outside of these isles and as for Naby there was a lot of people saying that we took a risk as he still has a lot to prove. Not saying they're right but you get the gist.

[RyanBabel19]

That's a good question but I doubt anybody would call VVD one of the best players in his position outside of these isles and as for Naby there was a lot of people saying that we took a risk as he still has a lot to prove. Not saying they're right but you get the gist.

I can't really comment on the views of the premier league in other countries to be honest, i'm not sure how much of our players they know outside of the big names. As for Keita, i think he's massively rated already to be honest. I think the 'risk' talk was largely due to the fee and some stated the whole one season thing made it risky but from what i've seen, most people seem to know he's at a very very high level