Topic: Lucas Leiva - A Man for All Seasons pt 2

[PhilV]

The passion shown yesterday in those shoot outs and in the game also.

Fucking loves LFC and I fucking love him right back.


Did a good job I thought, the game in general was a weird one but he did his job and when he moved into CB for Kolo he was pretty solid apart from the incident where Van Ginkel brushed him asside.

He is versatile and a leader.

[Tsar Kastik]

I bet Lucas must have complained vigorously to the referee about being pushed after the goal? 

He didn't actually, but that's neither here nor there; players get pushed in the pen area all the time - as you well know - and don't complain. This one was a very shrewd one by Rooney.

[lorenzo23]

Grujic mate, where you been?

Fair enough we just seem to be moving goal post every time peoples assumptions fail to happen. So Grujic might be the one this time round.

[Cpt_Reina]

Fair enough we just seem to be moving goal post every time peoples assumptions fail to happen. So Grujic might be the one this time round.

Just wouldnt be so quick to proclaim Klopp's fondness for any player in our current squad seeing as he's not even overseen one window yet, and the one we're currently in being mid-season when he's barely though the door.

He's still looking at people.

Rather than claiming he seems to be fond of Lucas, the signing of Grujic and links today to Xhaka could very well suggest otherwise.

[barneyk100]

His passes into space are beautifully weighted and finds people making the right movement. Great in the air, regularly winning headers and also directing them to one of our players. Interception of passes/clearances in the opponents  half leading to attacks for us show his speed of thought to get in to the right spot at the right time no matter if his legs have 'gone'. I'm not sure why I argue with the internet on this matter as I'll stick by what I've said for years, someones opinion on him (sort of like Makelele) tells me all I need to know.

[Captain Caveman]

Rather than claiming he seems to be fond of Lucas, the signing of Grujic and links today to Xhaka could very well suggest otherwise.

I think it tells us that Allen is not a long term solution as our main DM and that Lucas is going on 30, i.e. things we already know.

[Cpt_Reina]

I think it tells us that Allen is not a long term solution as our main DM and that Lucas is going on 30, i.e. things we already know.

And so we're looking to replace both in the situation whereby the links to Xhaka are genuine.

Grujic comes in as a teenager and likely to be a back up to both a CM and DM position (Allen) and Xhaka would come in much more established and expensive and likely to go straight in to the XI (Lucas).

Right?

[lorenzo23]

Just wouldnt be so quick to proclaim Klopp's fondness for any player in our current squad seeing as he's not even overseen one window yet, and the one we're currently in being mid-season when he's barely though the door.

He's still looking at people.

Rather than claiming he seems to be fond of Lucas, the signing of Grujic and links today to Xhaka could very well suggest otherwise.

Pretty much spot on (might get this wrong) but pretty sure you and few other proclaimed that Lallana would be showing Coutinho the ropes? That didn't turn out well so many others told us about Lovren is the Answer...Mignolet is the answer.

Why can't we just wait and see and in that mean time support the players here currently regardless if they are good enough, i don't think i see Lucas ever display showing he is not trying or don't care.

[soxfan]

I do agree that Lucas is not a perfect solution for our midfield, and that we would likely improve with a replacement brought in. But he can still be a valuable squad player for us for 2-3 more years. He's smart, he "gets" Liverpool and its supporters, by all accounts he's an excellent mentor, and he's capable of doing a decent job if not overexposed. We can't have 20 year old kids everywhere on the pitch all the time, talented though some of them may be. His experience is valuable.

[Cpt_Reina]

Pretty much spot on (might get this wrong) but pretty sure you and few other proclaimed that Lallana would be showing Coutinho the ropes?

Feel free to show me where.

So far as him 'caring' well, great. But Ricky Lambert cared, it didn't make him good enough to keep around or continue putting on the pitch.

[Captain Caveman]

And so we're looking to replace both in the situation whereby the links to Xhaka are genuine.

Grujic comes in as a teenager and likely to be a back up to both a CM and DM position (Allen) and Xhaka would come in much more established and expensive and likely to go straight in to the XI (Lucas).

Right?

Right, in that we are planning for the future. But I'm sure Lucas will stick around and continue to play an important role for Liverpool even if we do get in an expensive and established DM this summer. However, as he is soon past 30, then yes we do have to start thinking about replacing him.

So far as him 'caring' well, great. But Ricky Lambert cared, it didn't make him good enough to keep around or continue putting on the pitch.

And Rickie moved on, whilst Lucas is still here and was picked by Klopp for a crucial semi-final.

[xerxes]

Lucas is our Ronnie Whelan, only when he does not play will people see what he does.

I saw Ronnie Whelan. I idolised Ronnie Whelan. Lucas is no Ronnie Whelan.

[jwill2127]

I think it tells us that Allen is not a long term solution as our main DM and that Lucas is going on 30, i.e. things we already know.

THIS

[jwill2127]

I saw Ronnie Whelan. I idolised Ronnie Whelan. Lucas is no Ronnie Whelan.

If whelan played now many of our fans would slate him like, lucas! especially on here! where brain cells are lacking!

[Captain Caveman]

I saw Ronnie Whelan. I idolised Ronnie Whelan. Lucas is no Ronnie Whelan.

That's true. Lucas loves Liverpool, whilst Ronnie Whelan loves Man Utd.



p.s. I also used to idolise Ronnie Whelan back in the day.

[leivapool]

If people repeat that Lucas will need replacing often enough and for long enough they will eventualy be proved right.  Sure they''ll be the first to gloat and say "I told you so".  Lucas is 29,  eventually he'll leave and be replaced.  Can we not just accept him for the player he is and and be proud he wears our shirt,  instead of the now 9 year long tradition of taking continual pot shots and attempting to replace him with the numerous linked DM's every transfer window.

[Anywhichwayicant]

A real shame he picked up that injury a few seasons back. He was stepping in among Europe's elite at that time.

As it is now, he has everything you'd need in a footballer, but unfortunately he's just not at a high enough level for where we need to be, in my opinion.

[Captain Caveman]

If people repeat that Lucas will need replacing often enough and for long enough they will eventualy be proved right.  Sure they''ll be the first to gloat and say "I told you so".  Lucas is 29,  eventually he'll leave and be replaced.  Can we not just accept him for the player he is and and be proud he wears our shirt,  instead of the now 9 year long tradition of taking continual pot shots and attempting to replace him with the numerous linked DM's every transfer window.

x2

As it is now, he has everything you'd need in a footballer, but unfortunately he's just not at a high enough level for where we need to be, in my opinion.

Moving into more of a squad player role over the next few years he is plenty good enough still.

[Cpt_Reina]

There's been many proud traditions in Lucas' time here.

The 7th placed finishes, the sparceity of silverware.

Halcyon days. Here's to 300 more.

[Captain Caveman]

There's been many proud traditions in Lucas' time here.

The 7th placed finishes, the sparceity of silverware.

Halcyon days. Here's to 300 more.

So that's all on Lucas is it?

Jesus wept. Honestly I don't know what to say to this, other than "RAWK scribe"? How did that happen?

[Cpt_Reina]

So that's all on Lucas is it?

Jesus wept. Honestly I don't know what to say to this, other than "RAWK scribe"? How did that happen?

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that.

[Captain Caveman]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm asking you a question because you're clearly implying that Lucas is the cause of our recent period of mediocrity.

[sideshowme]

You look at the endorsements in this thread and you see the buzzwords of 'character' and 'bravery' of him being a 'warrior' of his great 'devotion' to LFC and how he came back from being booed about 7 years ago (dont know why its seen as such an acomplishment, Lovren had it every bit as bad).

so a 25-year old player who moved from a PL club and was booed for being a bit of a calamity in his established position is "every bit as bad" as more substantial, sustained booing of a 20-year old, new to the league and the country, and played in an unfamiliar position where he was competing with some of the very best in the entire world at the time? 

[Captain Caveman]

Anyway, what you have succeeded in doing is help derail a thread to praise one of our players after he played a major role in getting us to our first cup final in ages.

You seem to be one of the reasons why RAWK is unable to maintain open player threads. Which makes me wonder again how you got to be a RAWK scribe?

[Cpt_Reina]

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm asking you a question because you're clearly implying that Lucas is the cause of our recent period of mediocrity.

I never implied cause.

But it's the case isn't it? In his time here we've generally finished outside the top 4 (other than 13/14 when we went on a title charge with him out of the team)

And we've won nothing but a league cup (when he wasn't involved)

Not saying he's the cause. But let's not pretend like Lucas' time here has been anything other than a largely unprofitable time for the club.

Perhaps there's *some* correlation between having substandard players and the substandard performances.

I'd level the same at Skrtel in terms of players lacking in the required quality to push us on a level who have managed to somehow stick around longer than they should've.

[Mr Dilkington]

I remember when debate was a thing on here.

Good times.

[Miklagard]

Very good at times but his legs are gone, and it will not get better. We need a new holding midfielder now.

[Chakan]

I never implied cause.

But it's the case isn't it? In his time here we've generally finished outside the top 4 (other than 13/14 when we went on a title charge with him out of the team)

And we've won nothing but a league cup (when he wasn't involved)

Not saying he's the cause. But let's not pretend like Lucas' time here has been anything other than a largely unprofitable time for the club.

Perhaps there's *some* correlation between having substandard players and the substandard performances.

I'd level the same at Skrtel in terms of players lacking in the required quality to push us on a level who have managed to somehow stick around longer than they should've.

Same with Suarez as well. I mean we finished 6th, 8th, 7th, and then 2nd.

Only won a League Cup with him as well. Thank goodness we got rid of him though.

[jwill2127]

I think maybe look at the managers in charge? rather than blame the odd player. Compare what rafa had to the rubbish apart from suarez since.

[Cpt_Reina]

Same with Suarez as well. I mean we finished 6th, 8th, 7th, and then 2nd.

Only won a League Cup with him as well. Thank goodness we got rid of him though.

Aye but he was actually involved in that cup win and second placed finish, so its not really the same is it.

[Chakan]

Aye but he was actually involved in that cup win and second placed finish, so its not really the same is it.

Lucas didn't play any league cup games leading up to final? Also no games whatsoever in the 2nd place finish? Well that's me told.

[Captain Caveman]

Same with Suarez as well. I mean we finished 6th, 8th, 7th, and then 2nd.

Only won a League Cup with him as well. Thank goodness we got rid of him though.

And don't get me started on that tea lady who started working in 2007. She's more to blame than anyone else. If it wasn't for her, think of all the good times we could of had.

[SerbianScouser]

And don't get me started on that tea lady who started working in 2007. She's more to blame than anyone else. If it wasn't for her, think of all the good times we could of had.

1 trophy last 10 years. It`s good that it`s just Lucas not winning trophies and not all his teammates. At least we identified him.

[Cpt_Reina]

Lucas didn't play any league cup games leading up to final? Also no games whatsoever in the 2nd place finish? Well that's me told.

So Lucas' and Luis' contributions to those acheivments were equal?

Nothing between them?

If you say so.

Its easy to reduce arguments to such limited degrees, can work both ways.

[didi shamone]

And don't get me started on that tea lady who started working in 2007. She's more to blame than anyone else. If it wasn't for her, think of all the good times we could of had.

I'll never forgive Lucas for selling the club to Hicks and Gillette.  Then he tops that off with appointing Hodgson as manager.  How the fuck will we ever win anything with him making decisions?

[Captain Caveman]

1 trophy last 10 years. It`s good that it`s just Lucas not winning trophies and not all his teammates. At least we identified him.

And now we've identified the culprit, how do we let Klopp know? Someone has to tell him, otherwise we will never win another trophy ever again.

Good thing we've got debate back on RAWK so that we can single out which player is to blame for everything.

[Mr Dilkington]

And now we've identified the culprit, how do we let Klopp know? Someone has to tell him, otherwise we will never win another trophy ever again.

Good thing we've got debate back on RAWK so that we can single out which player is to blame for everything.

That's slanderous! I'm pretty sure the Cpt blames the other 50% on Skrtel.

[didi shamone]

So Lucas' and Luis' contributions to those acheivments were equal?

Nothing between them?

If you say so.

Its easy to reduce arguments to such limited degrees, can work both ways.

Have you had an irony bypass?

[Cpt_Reina]

All you need to ask yourself is this, how many of Spurs/Arsenal's/Man Utd's/Man City's/Chelsea's even Leicester's teams would Lucas see as much game time as he see's for us?

The answer is none of them.

Because Kante/Schneiderlin/Coquelin/Fernandinho/Dier/Matic have all to a man put together a run of form in the past season/year that has far exceeded anything Lucas has managed since 2010.

And honestly, Coquelin/Dier/Matic arent event *that* good themselves. But its shows the level of our specialised defensive midfielder that he wouldnt oust any of those lads, or even come close.

He's not on his own, Mignolet isnt better than any of their keepers.

Skrtel would struggle to get in ahead of any of their CBs

Ibe wouldnt be replaceing any of their wide players and Benteke wouldnt get a game over any of their strikers either.

Its not a Lucas exclusive, but he is part of an extended group of players on our books that is not and honestly (barring a 6 month spell 5 years ago) never has looked like a top 4 player.

[Chakan]

So Lucas' and Luis' contributions to those acheivments were equal?

Nothing between them?

If you say so.

Its easy to reduce arguments to such limited degrees, can work both ways.

Wow.