Topic: Brendan Rodgers is no longer Liverpool manager

[Lady_brandybuck]

Well, that was a bit of a shock.

Farewell Brendan, Thanks for the decent run a couple of seasons ago.

YNWA

[MerseyMania]

Obviously had his highs but selling Carroll and buying Benteke probably sums up his enigma with us.

Lots of respect though. Good luck for future BR. Hope he doesn't continue the good record old managers have against us once let gone..

[dazzler79]

Has this been posted?

See Henry's reaction.

https://vine.co/v/e2OFtXVuh2V

[Justanotherfan]

Good luck, Brendan

[zabadoh]

Thank you Brendan for that fantastic run in 2013/14.

We were going to lose Suarez the next season anyway, but if only you could have built on that team, bought Alexis Sanchez, etc...

At least you weren't a complete mediocrity like Hodgson.

[Fiasco]

This is just my opinion, but I think it's possible that FSG wanted to replace Rodgers in the summer but couldn't appoint a manager they wanted so gave Rodgers another chance. Klopp took a sabbatical and Ancelotti needed back surgery, so neither could take over in the summer. I'm not sure if anybody else was available who would be a significant upgrade on Brendan, or if there was FSG didn't fancy them for whatever reason. If the committee does indeed have a big influence on signing players then the 80 odd million spent on players is something that would have happened anyway. Rodgers did get a couple of his main targets but money was going to be spent anyway.

I think he was on a short leash no matter what was going on early this season. Our start has been inauspicious at best, for Rodgers to have kept his job it would have needed to be good at the very least. "I'm not ready to take over now, but in a few months I will be ready." It's entirely plausible Klopp or Ancelotti made that clear to the owners in the summer. If so, and again this is only opinion, then FSG have basically had a free shot with Rodgers. If it goes well then he's still their man and everything is OK and if it goes wrong like it has then a couple of managers are ready to take over. I believe their stance would have been something like that in the summer.


FSG have proven once again that they aren't afraid to make big decisions.

[Ken-Obi]

Show some respect eh, we got to within a whisker of being champions of the land again in 24 years and this is in no less a collective effort that includes Brendan as the team manager.

[Schmidt]

Show some respect eh, we got to within a whisker of being champions of the land again in 24 years and this is in no less a collective effort that includes Brendan as the team manager.

Have people been disrespectful?

[Godmadebloodred]

I vote for the Klopp-meister!!

[Ken-Obi]

Have people been disrespectful?

You could read through the thread and feel an undercurrent of 'good riddance' - I don't know probably it's just me?

[Schmidt]

You could read through the thread and feel an undercurrent of 'good riddance' - I don't know probably it's just me?

I think there's a relief around the place given results since the summer before last, but that can't really be helped. There'll always be a few posters who spout garbage but 90% seem pretty respectful and quick to recognise what Brendan almost accomplished here.

[farawayred]

I think there's a relief around the place given results since the summer before last, but that can't really be helped. There'll always be a few posters who spout garbage but 90% seem pretty respectful and quick to recognise what Brendan almost accomplished here.

Not sure if relief is the right word, but whatever it is, there is confusion. At least I feel totally confused.

[Beninger]

I think there's a relief around the place given results since the summer before last, but that can't really be helped. There'll always be a few posters who spout garbage but 90% seem pretty respectful and quick to recognise what Brendan almost accomplished here.

Not sure if it was a big minority, or just vocal, but it appeared any time somebody mentioned the season we came 2nd there were replies of "well, we won fuck all, so who cares?"  I guess it's easy to be respectful after the deed is done.

Oh well, time to move on I guess.

[TrueNorthRED]

This is just my opinion, but I think it's possible that FSG wanted to replace Rodgers in the summer but couldn't appoint a manager they wanted so gave Rodgers another chance. Klopp took a sabbatical and Ancelotti needed back surgery, so neither could take over in the summer. I'm not sure if anybody else was available who would be a significant upgrade on Brendan, or if there was FSG didn't fancy them for whatever reason. If the committee does indeed have a big influence on signing players then the 80 odd million spent on players is something that would have happened anyway. Rodgers did get a couple of his main targets but money was going to be spent anyway.

I think he was on a short leash no matter what was going on early this season. Our start has been inauspicious at best, for Rodgers to have kept his job it would have needed to be good at the very least. "I'm not ready to take over now, but in a few months I will be ready." It's entirely plausible Klopp or Ancelotti made that clear to the owners in the summer. If so, and again this is only opinion, then FSG have basically had a free shot with Rodgers. If it goes well then he's still their man and everything is OK and if it goes wrong like it has then a couple of managers are ready to take over. I believe their stance would have been something like that in the summer.


FSG have proven once again that they aren't afraid to make big decisions.

The suggestion is that Klopp was waiting to see what direction the Bayern job was headed. Insiders are now saying that Pep will put pen to paper on a contract extension. If that's all true than perhaps Klopp couldn't /wouldn't sign over the summer.

[elbow]

Show some respect eh, we got to within a whisker of being champions of the land again in 24 years and this is in no less a collective effort that includes Brendan as the team manager.

Indeed. I'll always have a soft spot for him for that season. Really shocked by this, truth be told. Where are we headed?

[Yerolo]

Indeed. I'll always have a soft spot for him for that season. Really shocked by this, truth be told. Where are we headed?

The next 12 days will paint a clear picture of the direction FSG want to send the club in. They need to appoint either Klopp or Carlo otherwise they should have just  held onto Brendan. I feel for him, he was definitely trying his best but the results & improvements havent been there this season apart from a few brief glimpses.

If neither Klopp or Carlo are appointed, I will seriously worry about the direction we are headed

[Reese]

Like others, I thought this was a joke thread, but then saw it was 15 pages long when I first saw it...

Feeling that I had the responsibility to take the time to read every page, I do not have much more to say than what has already been said, so thank you for the memories.

After the scintillating times of 13/14, I was convinced he was the man to lead us to eternal glory. I was desperate for him to succeed, but I understand that at some point, a decision had to be made.

In any case, there was far too much disgraceful stuff said about him during his time, from personal attacks, to not having a role in our title push. He did not work out, but always represented the club with dignity and class. 

Think he would be a great fit for the England job, and I wish him all the best in the future.

[ThePoolMan]

but the point is, they were all decisions they have made.  hodgson was a rushed ill-informed decision, which resulted in it being a poor one....dalglish was not their chosen appointment, but it was weak to keep him on when they did not want him and it was shithouse 'summoning' him to boston to sack him at the end of the season......Rodgers was their appointment that broke with their initial plan of a structured team with a head coach, and the process at the time seemed ham fisted and, in hindsight still seems like a poorly managed process, which was presented as a fresh and new approach unhindered by past experiences in the game, but ultimately merely appears to have been an amateurish approach that was, indeed, unhindered by experience - and indeed - knowledge of the game.  and then Rodgers is sacked3 months after replacing his coaching support staff and a couple of months after being provided with a meaty transfer budget.....so under Rodgers we have disposed of the (admittedly limited) remains of the family silver and replaced them with lots of stainless steel, all with their approval.  and then he is sacked by phone.  from the us.

this has been a shit tenure in terms of decision making by fsg.  they have continued to make strides off the field, but how well they are doing is not an easy argument ether way, they are operating in an era of unprecedented opportunity and competition, so how do you gauge? however, we have not improved on the field despite their investment. in fact, we have continued to go backwards.  the damage done under h&g cannot be underestimated, but at the same time we cannot continue to use it as an excuse.  they have not appeared to me to be engaged in the football club, and the decisions I have highlighted, the manner in which they have been relayed, and the lack of progress show just that.   

I never did actually like Rodgers, and thought he was a bit of a charlatan. but at the end of the day that is just my opinion and I always supported his teams.  him being removed as manager is not something I see as anything other than inevitable.  but he deserved better treatment. as did dalglish. fsg have shown no class, no engagement and no ability thus far to improve the club.  this needs to change, otherwise the next appointment will have the same outcome.  we will continue to sink to mid-table/uefa league challengers and our ultimate goals and expectations will be managed down.

I am not at all positive about Rodgers being replaced, as I see nothing changing at the club other than personnel and that means nothing if the personnel are not engaged and committed and talented.

R u saying appointing Hodgson was FSG's decision? If so that isn't correct as Hodgson was appointed by the previous owners.

[jooneyisdagod]

I just read Neil Atkinson's wonderful heartfelt piece on the Rodgers situation and I don't know, it just made me recollect those memories of that year. Where every Monday you started to look forward to Saturday. Where I started to hero worship Suarez and Coutinho. Where I would go to a pub half the world away two hours before kick off, just so I could get inside and by the time it was ready for kick off, the place was absolutely packed with barely enough elbow room to hold one's drink.

I remember when Sterling's goal against Norwich went in via a deflection and the ball looped over the keeper for what seemed like several agonising hours before it finally went over the line. I remember the celebrations as a blur, jumping like crazy, inebriated as I was. I remember people falling over each other and some soft twat complaining that his expensive watch broke. I remember looking down at the soles of my shoes and seeing that they were full of little shards of glass from all the pints that had been spilt and all the glasses that had shattered in the commotion that was the celebration of that goal.

I remember watching the City game and watching Coutinho score that screamer of a goal and thinking, no believing (and I hardly do that), that it was our year. I have those memories etched in my head. The build up to that game. Going in knowing that this was the team most likely to win the league apart from us, on our backyard and we just had to beat them to wrest control on the title from them.


I remember the first 20-odd minutes where we came out and backed by a baying Anfield crowd cowed the would-be champions. I remember Sterling's goal like it happened in slow motion, maybe because he was just so fast in making both Kompany and the rest of the world look slow as he just rolled the ball into the net after I thought the chance was gone. I remember Silva stepping up to his best in the second half where every second he was on the ball was genuinely frightening. And then I Coutinho struck that goal. The composure on that finish, the weight of its meaning, the emotions that ran through when the ball hit the net, words can hardly describe. Burdened by all the expectation, and weighed down by the sheer knowledge of the meaning of that game, the end of the game was far more relief and self-affirmation that we belonged at the top of the table than anything else.

I remember Stevie's near miraculous through ball with the outside of his boot to Sturridge for him to score at Fulham. I remember Suarez and Sturridge combining at Stoke and tearing them apart. I remember Suarez's by now usual battering of Norwich. I remember playing Tottenham and smashing them. I remember the good times and I'll remember them for a long time because simply it was all I ever asked for. I wanted to dream and so did everyone else and Brendan made us dream and for that I'll be grateful. That's what football is to me. The ability to dream and to then get there and in doing so sharing the dream with many people from walks of life far removed from one's one, united in the pursuit of a common aspiration and ideal. And that Brendan gave us that year. We didn't win, of course. I remember the utter dejection at the end of the Chelsea game where I barely spoke a word to some quite nice and loquacious City fan who tried to strike up a conversation about how at least the Man Utd bastards wouldn't win the league. Sorry mate, but I couldn't give a fuck and I just needed to be left alone. I remember briefly beginning to dream again 3-0 up at Palace and seeing Suarez and co. pick the ball out of the net and run it back to the centre circle to have a quick restart. I remember Suarez's tears. I remember the lows though I've confined them into the 'Not to be opened' box in my memory bank. Ultimately though that year we all collectively felt the incredible highs and the terrible lows.

No manager would ever be able to replicate such highs and such lows again. And yet we saw no particular highs and some lows. All that dreaming has now been replaced by boredom and apathy. The buzz, the excitement, the anticipation, they're all gone. All the emotions possible were expended a year and a half ago, and now there's nothing left, but the living yet lifeless shadow of that team and a manager that seemed to have no idea how to fix any of that or indeed acknowledge it sometimes. I think FSG backed the wrong horse this summer even if I wasn't sure if the manager should have been sacked at the end of last season. It felt premature despite the awful performances throughout the year. I hoped the summer would be the time Brendan needed to introspect and realise the things that worked for us were not the ones he was looking to bring to the team. I wish he realised that he was going in the wrong direction, but alas, he didn't. In the end, without the CPR we needed, we continued to be what we were, lifeless, without a clue as to how we were going to resuscitate the team. And that's why it Brendan had to go. He no longer made us dream.   

[ThePoolMan]

I think there's a lot of confused and overly sentimental arguments over the owners making mincemeat of the club's traditions and having a hire and fire culture etc. With all due respect, the club has to be ruthless when it comes to knowing when a player or a coach is by his sell by date. It is a trait that all winners share. Was the club maintaining continuity and keeping the faith in the glory days of seamless transition in the boot room? Or was it rather the fact that there was no question of sacking the manager since the liverpool football machine was running smoothly as it overcame all before it and the incumbents clearly were on top of things. It isn't really fair to use the boot room period as comparisons as there was clearly no need to change the manager. During this period managers retired or resigned not because they were forced out.

However after heysel the wheels came off the juggernaut and thereafter the club nosedived in it's standing and strength on and off field. Souness only lasted 3 years before leaving on his own accord. Though this was probably a forced departure. Evans lasted four years before resigning. Again this was a compelled parting of ways. However this was clearly a compelled parting of ways. Houllier stayed for six years before being sacked. Benitez also had six years before bring sacked. Hodgson had six months. Dalglish had a year. By comparison Rodgers has had 3 years at the helm.

If we want to use the post heysel period as a yardstick for the traditions of the club, then it is fair IMHO to say that Rodgers was given more than enough time to prove that he could turn things around and that FSG has not acted against the traditions of the club in this decision. We have to also bear in mind that he was given more money than any liverpool manager has ever been given but returned the poorest results and zero trophy haul of any of the post heysel managers (except Hodgson who has too short a time to be fair to him).

[Marty McFly]

Yeah personally my reaction was like this..

Personally I'm annoyed by the sacking. I felt the same way about Rafa's sacking. The only reservation I had
about Rodgers is his inexperience in Europe. That cost us last season and could potentially cost us a spot this year. I felt he did well to resurrect the team's chances of qualifying for Europe last season (and we did qualify for Europa) after losing Suarez & Sturridge. Once we lost that crucial match at home to United in March it looked all over and we lacked motivation for the remainder of the season.

This season we've started slowly again but we're not far off the pace in the league & still in all cups. Plus we've just got Sturridge back, which makes me a bit surprised we didn't give Rodgers just a bit more time. The summer was the time to axe the manager if we were going to do it. The next two months could make or break our season, so Rodgers' replacement is going to have to get on board very quickly.

And this sums up my sentiments on a few hours reflection..

Feeling that I had the responsibility to take the time to read every page, I do not have much more to say than what has already been said, so thank you for the memories.

After the scintillating times of 13/14, I was convinced he was the man to lead us to eternal glory. I was desperate for him to succeed, but I understand that at some point, a decision had to be made.

In any case, there was far too much disgraceful stuff said about him during his time, from personal attacks, to not having a role in our title push. He did not work out, but always represented the club with dignity and class. 

Think he would be a great fit for the England job, and I wish him all the best in the future.

In some ways quite hard to believe how suddenly this happened, as a staunch Rodgers supporter.

Thanks for the good times Brendan and for being an honest, dedicated and tireless representative of the club. Dignity and class are definitely the right words, he fit the mould of the club's traditions perfectly, it just wasn't to be in the end.

YNWA BR & fellow Reds

FSG, you're up to bat.

[keyo]

R u saying appointing Hodgson was FSG's decision? If so that isn't correct as Hodgson was appointed by the previous owners.

I thought that the appointment was cecil's but after the takeover? Could be wrong, my memory and research skills are not what they were. They are certainly not culpable in that appointment even if they were in charge. Either way, it was a bad start and we are still recovering. But the failure is in the lack of recognition and redressing of that starting point. Taking your time may appear to be prudent and diligent. But, as on the field, sometimes it can just be slow, unproductive and result in losing valuable ground.

[Xxavi]

He tried, it didn't work out. I'll remember him, first and foremost, for the 2013/14 season, then his stupid soundbites & finally his attitude, arrogance & stubbornness. I grew to dislike him quite a bit, but he still has the second highest win percentage of a LFC manager in the PL, so fair enough - despite the fact that he's also spent the most (Ł300m in 3 years, is it?). Thanks, but good riddance too - it's the best for both parties and he'll easily get a job elsewhere.

Finally, I hope it's Ancelotti. I don't know what happened to Dortmund that season, but it's worrying that they underperformed so badly under Klopp after, admittedly, overachieving the season before.

As a Liverpool sympathizer, or fan if you will, I think it is a right decision to sack Rodgers. A bit too late, as summer was the perfect time for it, but regardless, I don't see why people wanted him given more time. Let the new manager come in and familiarize himself with the club, the city and the players he has available to him. The new manager will have a plenty of time to perfectly evaluate his players, so in a sense, it is even better than a summer appointment. By next transfer window, the new manager will know the deficiencies for his style of football.

The reason I quoted you is that many have the "second highest win percentage" kind of stats, which to me shows how much bullshit stats can be if they used without context. More than statistics, what Liverpool have lacked is any coherent playing style and trophies. All these stats go to garbage if one, and especially two of these are lacking.

Another reason I quoted you is that Rodgers' interviews weren't the very best. He really has to improve that aspect for his future career. You have mad bastards like Van Gaal who say all sorts of crazy things, but somehow they sound genuine and you end up liking him. You have Rafa Benitez, who is a very stubborn person as well, but you grow to like him. With Rodgers, he was giving interviews that were best avoided. They were either very cringe-worthy or didn't make sense at all, and you ended up wondering if he is honest in his interviews.

[macca888]

I thought that the appointment was cecil's but after the takeover? Could be wrong, my memory and research skills are not what they were. They are certainly not culpable in that appointment even if they were in charge. Either way, it was a bad start and we are still recovering. But the failure is in the lack of recognition and redressing of that starting point. Taking your time may appear to be prudent and diligent. But, as on the field, sometimes it can just be slow, unproductive and result in losing valuable ground.

Definitely before the takeover mate. Rafa was sacked at the beginning of June 2010 and Hodgson took over straight away. They didn't buy us until the October of 2010.

[keyo]

I think there's a lot of confused and overly sentimental arguments over the owners making mincemeat of the club's traditions and having a hire and fire culture etc. With all due respect, the club has to be ruthless when it comes to knowing when a player or a coach is by his sell by date. It is a trait that all winners share. Was the club maintaining continuity and keeping the faith in the glory days of seamless transition in the boot room? Or was it rather the fact that there was no question of sacking the manager since the liverpool football machine was running smoothly as it overcame all before it and the incumbents clearly were on top of things. It isn't really fair to use the boot room period as comparisons as there was clearly no need to change the manager. During this period managers retired or resigned not because they were forced out.

However after heysel the wheels came off the juggernaut and thereafter the club nosedived in it's standing and strength on and off field. Souness only lasted 3 years before leaving on his own accord. Though this was probably a forced departure. Evans lasted four years before resigning. Again this was a compelled parting of ways. However this was clearly a compelled parting of ways. Houllier stayed for six years before being sacked. Benitez also had six years before bring sacked. Hodgson had six months. Dalglish had a year. By comparison Rodgers has had 3 years at the helm.

If we want to use the post heysel period as a yardstick for the traditions of the club, then it is fair IMHO to say that Rodgers was given more than enough time to prove that he could turn things around and that FSG has not acted against the traditions of the club in this decision. We have to also bear in mind that he was given more money than any liverpool manager has ever been given but returned the poorest results and zero trophy haul of any of the post heysel managers (except Hodgson who has too short a time to be fair to him).

I don't believe liverpool fc has been or should ever be anything other than ruthless in carrying out its stated aims of winning trophies.

Where i would ask questions is whether it is ruthless sacking a manager over the phone, or merely displaying a lack of dignity or engagement - pick your shit.

And i would also ask whether the owners are doing a good job themselves. Ultimately every manager that fails reflects on the owners. Either the decision to appoint was wrong, or the systems and support are wrong. We knew moores' issues were largely around funds and growing the club. And h&g were stripping the club but benitez still competed. Fsg have failed so far, cos both their appointments have failed to achieve their set targets. So they can be as ruthless as they like. But so far they have not been very good at achieving the aims of the club.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

The fuck is this...... ? Just logged in and i see this..

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Read through most of these posts over the past few hours.  I guess there are three issues which arose during this process.

First, Rodgers did far more than give us one season of joy.  This is the attachment point for most, but the restructuring of our youth set-up has been productive and top-notch as far as I am concerned.  Also, I thought he did a better job of trying to educate supporters of his methods (albeit, experimental at times) than any current premier league coach I have seen in the last 15 years --- maybe with the exception of Wenger.    And, lastly, he embraced a culture of learning in so many different areas -- bringing together psychology, physiology, periodization, current research, statistics, while having to work with a committee.   I think what I remember the most about what players said about his touch had to do with his man management skills.   While not everyone is a fan of his, I do think he brought an energy and confidence for young players trying to get to the next level.  Not all coaches have this quality.

Second, I am already fatigued about the Klopp or Ancellotti discussion.  Neither are really what I would like to see.  First, they both are more experienced dogs with some hidden fleas.   They look good, have pedigree, and may be a loyal companion here, but what we want for our next manager (post-Rodgers) is someone who is great at attracting world class players, can coach and train a defense effectively, and throw some master-class tactics at our enemies from time to time.    For me, there are three names that do this best;

1.  Diego Simeone (A-Madrid)
2.  Joachim Low (German National Team)
3.  Marcelo Bielsa (Resigned from Marseille)

Plan B --- Hire Nicola Cortese as DoF and have him find the next coach

Klopp and Ancellotti are nice, but systemic change is needed with a tough-minded defense, and results.  I would go after these three or Plan B with a passion before either Klopp or Ancellotti if I had ambition to be a top 4 team.  The fact that both Jurgen and Carlo are available should not be the only driving force.  The next hire is important and needs to be thoughtful.  I suspect FSG have done some major research here, but my worry is that it has been outsourced to Gordon and FSG's track record in hiring managers leaves something to be desired.  Still upset about the firing of Dalglish (although I warmed to Brendan right away).   

Third, we really need to hold the owners, management, and transfer committee responsible for what has happened here.  Those who have the most power to affect change deserve the most criticism for when things fail or praise for when they succeed.  While I do agree with much of the sentiment here about Rodgers (it was time), and the appreciation for what he brought to our club, it does not take a rocket scientist to see that we need more than hiring a top manager.   Sure, it is the next step and what is required, but our management team really has to take a look in the mirror and decide if they want us (as at present, one more fuck up from them and they'll be a lot of disillusioned supporters wondering if we want them).   Management stability starts from the top down.  Everyone should share the pain.

[keyo]

Definitely before the takeover mate. Rafa was sacked at the beginning of June 2010 and Hodgson took over straight away. They didn't buy us until the October of 2010.

my mistake

[Xxavi]

By the way, it is reported that Rodgers will get 7m+ for the termination of his contract. I am wondering if he wanted to be sacked rather than resign and lose that money. Seriously, it must have been embarrassing for him to agree to sacking of his backroom staff this past summer. And all these results this season...

You judge a manager by the legacy and quality of squad they left.

I don`t think any new manager that takes over can say they don`t have good material to work with here. Therefore BR has done a very good job overall and the squad is talented, young, vibrant and full of potential.

Interesting viewpoint. I don't think you should judge a manager by the squad they left, though it could be one parameter. A manager should be judged by the trophies won, if we are talking about a big club, and the football played on the pitch. These are 2 major parameters.

But let's take your viewpoint. I agree that Liverpool's current squad is not nearly as bad as it seems, and a great manager can do a lot with this squad. Premiership top teams are really struggling this season, like the past several seasons. There is no genuine top class side out there. Top 4 is very realistic, ManU were the leaders and they got destroyed by Arsenal, who lost to Olympiacos of all teams at home. So a great manager can get a top 3-4 spot even with this squad, IMO.

That said, Rodgers himself couldn't do anything with this squad. You seem to want to praise him for the squad he left, but in the past few weeks, he has been telling press essentially that he has no tools to work with. So by your logic, we should judge a manager by the squad he left, but it turns out this squad is something that Rodgers couldn't use and he didn't actually rate it at all.

If a manager like Klopp comes in and gets a top 3-4 spot with Liverpool, you will be on here saying "Rodgers was superb to assemble this squad, he only needed time". But you should remember, Rodgers was the one complaining about the tools he has. Any achievement of future Liverpool manager will be his and his only. It was quite clear this season that Rodgers still doesn't know what to do with half of the players he has at his disposal.

[keyo]

Read through most of these posts over the past few hours.  I guess there are three issues which arose during this process.


Third, we really need to hold the owners, management, and transfer committee responsible for what has happened here.  Those who have the most power to affect change deserve the most criticism for when things fail or praise for when they succeed.  While I do agree with much of the sentiment here about Rodgers (it was time), and the appreciation for what he brought to our club, it does not take a rocket scientist to see that we need more than hiring a top manager.   Sure, it is the next step and what is required, but our management team really has to take a look in the mirror and decide if they want us (as at present, one more fuck up from them and they'll be a lot of disillusioned supporters wondering if we want them).   Management stability starts from the top down.  Everyone should share the pain.

I don't necessarily agree with your fist two points, but I feel they are also more subjective anyway and there will always be differences of opinion.  however, this point is fundamental and is absolutely the issue that needs to be most addressed.  I am still not convinced by the owners, they do not strike me as engaged or committed to the extent that they 'need' us to win.  Commercially they are doing a great job, and certainly success on the field improves the club's commercial potential. But there is nothing to suggest they feel the pain of failure, either emotionally or in terms of responsibility.  We need everyone to be accountable, everyone to be responsible, everyone to contributing and everyone to be pulling in the right direction. failing that we need everyone to be really good at their job......there was a time when even the tea ladies at anfield had to bet he best tea ladies in the league

[keyo]

Interesting viewpoint. I don't think you should judge a manager by the squad they left, though it could be one parameter. A manager should be judged by the trophies won, if we are talking about a big club, and the football played on the pitch. These are 2 major parameters.

But let's take your viewpoint. I agree that Liverpool's current squad is not nearly as bad as it seems, and a great manager can do a lot with this squad. Premiership top teams are really struggling this season, like the past several seasons. There is no genuine top class side out there. Top 4 is very realistic, ManU were the leaders and they got destroyed by Arsenal, who lost to Olympiacos of all teams at home. So a great manager can get a top 3-4 spot even with this squad, IMO.

That said, Rodgers himself couldn't do anything with this squad. You seem to want to praise him for the squad he left, but in the past few weeks, he has been telling press essentially that he has no tools to work with. So by your logic, we should judge a manager by the squad he left, but it turns out this squad is something that Rodgers couldn't use and he didn't actually rate it at all.

If a manager like Klopp comes in and gets a top 3-4 spot with Liverpool, you will be on here saying "Rodgers was superb to assemble this squad, he only needed time". But you should remember, Rodgers was the one complaining about the tools he has. Any achievement of future Liverpool manager will be his and his only. It was quite clear this season that Rodgers still doesn't know what to do with half of the players he has at his disposal.

and more to the point every manager tends to use their arrival as a way to bring in their preferred players (in type and individuals).....houllier basically swept the boards with his appointment, but really the core of hs successful teams were the same as those of evans.....benitez achieved champions league success with his legacy, adding alonso and Garcia to the mix.....hodge podge did nothing with the squad he inherited, and dalglish certainly improved on it in his first half season.....but then Rodgers more or less tried to revolutionise the squad straight away but really achieved his success with mostly players he inherited.

the quality of a squad is half a job at best, what you do with it is what matters....Rodgers was quoted as saying managing a football team is like building an aeroplane while trying to fly it at the same time.  I tend to think this is as close to reality as any of his later quotes....'rebuilding' is a popular excuse of managers and is always easily justifiable...the reality is football is dynamic, stand still and you get left behind (observe Chelsea this season), and consequently you have to "rebuild" and get results....I.e evolve, build, use the tools you have and maximise their usefulness, and try to improve as you go.  starting a project s nice, but a football team is not a project that ever ends, it just continues and you have to continue, evolve, develop and persist

[Xxavi]

^I am just trying to think about giving credit to a manager for signing somebody, but then, how can you ignore 10-15 terrible transfers he was involved with? If you are fair and balanced, you'd have to remember that, too. So let's say a new manager comes in and gets best out of Can, Firmino, Markovic, Moreno and Benteke. What credit should Rodgers get for these players? I say zero. Nothing.

He couldn't figure out how to use 1-2 of them after 1 year, and shipped Markovic out, Moreno was benched very deeply, only resurrected as of late. Can to this day doesn't know his identity at Liverpool, is he a midfielder, if so what kind, is he a right back, is he a center back. Firmino, again, doesn't know his position, doesn't know his role, and honestly, looked like a 5m pound player. Benteke looked isolated, and aside from rare sparks of brilliance, looked very much like Balotelli and Lambert at times.

So I am thinking, if Klopp or whoever is the new manager comes in, and gets these guys playing superb football, what credit should Rodgers get? For me, none. He pretty much killed the confidence of half of these guys, some of them very expensive transfers. He was out in the press complaining about lack of tools. I don't care if he was involved in their transfers, had he stayed, he would have ruined half of these by playing them out of position or using wrong.

[Loo Pan]

This is just my opinion, but I think it's possible that FSG wanted to replace Rodgers in the summer but couldn't appoint a manager they wanted so gave Rodgers another chance. Klopp took a sabbatical and Ancelotti needed back surgery, so neither could take over in the summer. I'm not sure if anybody else was available who would be a significant upgrade on Brendan, or if there was FSG didn't fancy them for whatever reason. If the committee does indeed have a big influence on signing players then the 80 odd million spent on players is something that would have happened anyway. Rodgers did get a couple of his main targets but money was going to be spent anyway.

I think he was on a short leash no matter what was going on early this season. Our start has been inauspicious at best, for Rodgers to have kept his job it would have needed to be good at the very least. "I'm not ready to take over now, but in a few months I will be ready." It's entirely plausible Klopp or Ancelotti made that clear to the owners in the summer. If so, and again this is only opinion, then FSG have basically had a free shot with Rodgers. If it goes well then he's still their man and everything is OK and if it goes wrong like it has then a couple of managers are ready to take over. I believe their stance would have been something like that in the summer.


FSG have proven once again that they aren't afraid to make big decisions.

I think this is exactly what has happened.

There were a lot of rumours that Klopp was approached about the job at the end of last season.

He's said no, because he wanted a break, but probably made it clear he would be interested upon his return. His agent more or less said in an interview at the end of last season that he would be interested in taking the Liverpool job when he returns.

So FSG have stuck with Brendan and given him a last chance rather than appointing another unproven manager.

Klopp's now available for work again, we've had an unimpressive start, so the decision has been made quickly to get it done.

I imagine Klopp will be appointed this week.

[ThePoolMan]

Second, I am already fatigued about the Klopp or Ancellotti discussion.  Neither are really what I would like to see.  First, they both are more experienced dogs with some hidden fleas.   They look good, have pedigree, and may be a loyal companion here, but what we want for our next manager (post-Rodgers) is someone who is great at attracting world class players, can coach and train a defense effectively, and throw some master-class tactics at our enemies from time to time.    For me, there are three names that do this best;

1.  Diego Simeone (A-Madrid)
2.  Joachim Low (German National Team)
3.  Marcelo Bielsa (Resigned from Marseille)

Plan B --- Hire Nicola Cortese as DoF and have him find the next coach

Klopp and Ancellotti are nice, but systemic change is needed with a tough-minded defense, and results.  I would go after these three or Plan B with a passion before either Klopp or Ancellotti if I had ambition to be a top 4 team.  The fact that both Jurgen and Carlo are available should not be the only driving force.  The next hire is important and needs to be thoughtful.  I suspect FSG have done some major research here, but my worry is that it has been outsourced to Gordon and FSG's track record in hiring managers leaves something to be desired.  Still upset about the firing of Dalglish (although I warmed to Brendan right away).   

Third, we really need to hold the owners, management, and transfer committee responsible for what has happened here.  Those who have the most power to affect change deserve the most criticism for when things fail or praise for when they succeed.  While I do agree with much of the sentiment here about Rodgers (it was time), and the appreciation for what he brought to our club, it does not take a rocket scientist to see that we need more than hiring a top manager.   Sure, it is the next step and what is required, but our management team really has to take a look in the mirror and decide if they want us (as at present, one more fuck up from them and they'll be a lot of disillusioned supporters wondering if we want them).   Management stability starts from the top down.  Everyone should share the pain.

Your third point is clearly correct and the club has got to hire a top Director of Football and leave the signing decisions to him and his staff.

On the choice of managers, Diego Simeone may not be able to manage in english yet  and his cycle in Athletivc looks like it has a ways to go before he leaves them.

Low has had insufficient club experience.

Bielsa is very innovative in his coaching but he does not seem to have achieved much in his managerial career.

[Solomon Grundy]

Has Fordy been on yet?

Must be wanking himself silly over this.

[jimbo196843]

People already criticising managers who haven't yet been appointed. Incredible

[RainbowFlick]

A little puzzled with people thinking he deserved some more time. It's been well over a season now where the tactics, formations and style of the 11 are puzzling at best. There was a lot of papering over the cracks (mainly 3 at the back). I'd have been fully supportive if we'd had shown at least minor improvements game-to-game, but any improvements were often short-lived. Also it's pretty evident almost all of our defenders have somehow regressed under Rodgers. Even Clyne I'd argue has looked a shadow of last season.

We have the makings of a good squad, but we're definitely missing some quality. We need a name that can attract quality and get the best from the youngsters we have.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Your third point is clearly correct and the club has got to hire a top Director of Football and leave the signing decisions to him and his staff.

On the choice of managers, Diego Simeone may not be able to manage in english yet  and his cycle in Athletic looks like it has a ways to go before he leaves them.

Low has had insufficient club experience.

Bielsa is very innovative in his coaching but he does not seem to have achieved much in his managerial career.

Appreciate the response...  reasonable ideas as to why this list has its own fleas, but I respectfully counter that while Simeone is probably unrealistic, I do think winning a World Cup puts Low in the coaching realm --- club or country and Bielsa is a no shit substance over style kind of manager that would help supporters feel connected to a team and push the owners to treat people right. 

Anyhow, what do I know?  I thought Danny Ings would be a disaster this summer. 

[Trendisnotdestiny]

People already criticising managers who haven't yet been appointed. Incredible

Why should we wait until they are hired.  This is one of the benefits of the internet.  Of course, we could piss off the very same people we want to attract, but managing Liverpool is not going to be an easy job. 

Criticism does not kill support, indifference does.

[jimbo196843]

Why should we wait until they are hired.  This is one of the benefits of the internet.  Of course, we could piss off the very same people we want to attract, but managing Liverpool is not going to be an easy job. 

Criticism does not kill support, indifference does.

it's pathetic