Topic: Liverpool 1 - 1 Norwich

[Grand Chilli]

No, but no down we would have a better chance of winning the game.

Let's not fall for this performance rubbish. Football is about results.

Yes and no. Results count of course, but in the long run they come from performances. This old "champions win playing badly" thing is a load of misleading rubbish. You can do that occasionally, when some of the things that make a top team rescue you. Over a season the results will absolutely reflect the performances.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I was going to try and put a positive slant on this, but I can't.

Meeting the bods before the game, we all thought that we'd be a bit rubbish.

At the game, the bizarre cutting off of 'You'll Never Walk Alone' halfway through stamped on the atmosphere totally. I don't blame George, I blame the idiot on the mike. George had no option than to cut the music off.. Surreal..

People weren't angry even, just resigned, we looked like a bunch of individuals. Some nice touches and movement here and there, but a team we aren't.

After the game, no one was even surprised or arsed.

I'm hoping that Wednesday is going to be a little more fun to be at, otherwise it's going to be a dark, wet miserable night. Ho hum.

[peachybum]

No, but no down we would have a better chance of winning the game.

Let's not fall for this performance rubbish. Football is about results.

And how do you get consistent good results over a season, two seasons, five seasons? Good performances or bad performances?

Answers on a postcard.

[planet-terror]

im with the majority on her.a marked improvement in the performance but its quite simply not good enough.
if brendan does go there is no doubt that a proven winner needs to be installed ,klopp,ancelotti even van gull would have us doing better.
a strong manager with big cahonas

[QC]

And how do you get consistent good results over a season, two seasons, five seasons? Good performances or bad performances?

Answers on a postcard.

The answer is effective performances. I won't charge you for the stamp.

[Nazi Dickhead]

I was going to try and put a positive slant on this, but I can't.

Meeting the bods before the game, we all thought that we'd be a bit rubbish.

At the game, the bizarre cutting off of 'You'll Never Walk Alone' halfway through stamped on the atmosphere totally. I don't blame George, I blame the idiot on the mike. George had no option than to cut the music off.. Surreal..

People weren't angry even, just resigned, we looked like a bunch of individuals. Some nice touches and movement here and there, but a team we aren't.

After the game, no one was even surprised or arsed.

I'm hoping that Wednesday is going to be a little more fun to be at, otherwise it's going to be a dark, wet miserable night. Ho hum.

Hurts the most really, myself included just kind of shrug now, like 'yeah that's what we do'. From the Suarez days of always predicting, if not a win then atleast some excitement and a shit tone of goals. Just the complete opposite now, predictable, toothless and generally boring.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

At the game, the bizarre cutting off of 'You'll Never Walk Alone' halfway through stamped on the atmosphere totally. I don't blame George, I blame the idiot on the mike. George had no option than to cut the music off.. Surreal..

This was really weird wasn't it.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Yes, although I think they will bring in someone tactically similar and our approach will still be pressure based. If not we require a whole new midfield.

Klopp seems tailor made. Tuchel seems to have tightened them up signifcantly though so you'd wonder are there even better managers than Klopp in Germany, maybe Schmidt.

Tactically similar to what, though? To the "death by football" possession dossier which got him the job? To the relentless blitzkrieg football of 13-14 which blew teams away as early as possible and relied on constant pressure? To the cagey, ever shifting tactics of the last 40+ games which move from formation to formation and see us attack Arsenal away and then have no clue how to attack Norwich or West Ham effectively at home? There simply isn't a coherent tactical model to follow which would direct them to a certain type of manager, if they decide to replace Rodgers.

A simple solution would be to go for the best people out there. People with standing in the game, authority, and who would attract new players and inspire our current ones. Someone who can point to their trophies and say to a team: I've done it before, let's go do it again. There really is no need to get all clever (as some worry FSG would do) and appoint another left-field choice, unless we really cannot attract top managers any more, which I refuse to believe.

[Suareznumber7]

Yes, although I think they will bring in someone tactically similar and our approach will still be pressure based. If not we require a whole new midfield.

Klopp seems tailor made. Tuchel seems to have tightened them up signifcantly though so you'd wonder are there even better managers than Klopp in Germany, maybe Schmidt.

Read this last night about Tuchel which has some small bits about Klopp's final year at Dortmund. 

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/

[Chakan]

Hurts the most really, myself included just kind of shrug now, like 'yeah that's what we do'. From the Suarez days of always predicting, if not a win then atleast some excitement and a shit tone of goals. Just the complete opposite now, predictable, toothless and generally boring.

Agree with this , it's a bit meh isn't it? A shrug of the shoulders and carry on ...

[IvanDobskey]

Other than the suarez season, Rodgers has averaged less points, more goals conceeded and less goals scored per game than the owl. I think that says it all.

I really can't see things picking up, it is inevitable that there will be a change of manager. When though, I am not sure. I can see us limping on like this until the summer before the trigger is pulled. Another season down the pan.

[Suareznumber7]

Which teams do you think are our competition for top4 top 6?

We're not getting top 4 with this group of players being managed by this manager.  We're a top 5-8 team this year and won't even be challenging for top 4 this year.   

[The G in Gerrard]

No, it shows that the top teams are not so mighty.

Absolutely. Top 4 is definitely achievable.

[Glass Kites]

Other than the suarez season, Rodgers has averaged less points, more goals conceeded and less goals scored per game than the owl. I think that says it all.

I really can't see things picking up, it is inevitable that there will be a change of manager. When though, I am not sure. I can see us limping on like this until the summer before the trigger is pulled. Another season down the pan.

Scary, that! How long was he in charge for in total (I've since erased that part of my memory!)

[RedHopper]

I really really wish we had an identifiable plan or system of play, and that we stuck with it and signed players to specifically fit it. I'm getting really really bored with us being a shambolic ever-changing mess and having no idea what team we're supposed to be. We're three and a half years into the Brodgolution and While we've occasionally had a plan for what to do with the ball (give it to suarez as quickly as possible and watch him create and dictate attacks all by himself) we've never had any identifiable or remotely coherent plan for what to do without the ball. I don't even particularly care what formation we use, just as long as we stick with the damn thing for more than four or five games at a time.

it was really really necessary to use really really twice.

[SP]

So you see no cause for concern?

There is concern and there is knicker wetting hysteria. The reaction of certain posters is decided bi-polar. It is not a great start to the season. But it is not season ending calamity either. It is interesting times.

[The G in Gerrard]

Agree with this , it's a bit meh isn't it? A shrug of the shoulders and carry on ...

Yesterday wasn't a shock. It's not even news worthy at the moment our decline in form is such. Dreadful.

[Chakan]

Yesterday wasn't a shock. It's not even news worthy at the moment our decline in form is such. Dreadful.

I really thought we'd get 3 points yesterday. I didn't see us getting a draw or losing. I was surprised we didn't win, but at the end of the day, it's a "meh" rather than a shocker.

[peachybum]

There is concern and there is knicker wetting hysteria. The reaction of certain posters is decided bi-polar. It is not a great start to the season. But it is not season ending calamity either. It is interesting times.

Not for lovers of Liverpool goals it isn't! 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

We're not getting top 4 with this group of players being managed by this manager.  We're a top 5-8 team this year and won't even be challenging for top 4 this year.   

As poor as we are at the moment, I still think top 4 is achievable.

This is probably the worst league I've seen since I've followed football. Pretty much every team is pathetic. Most teams can't pass a ball 10 yards, make a run, challenge or even look remotely arsed.

[poopscoop]

I think there's a danger of going overboard now - especially where Milner is concerned.

After Stoke/Arsenal he was the signing of the summer. And now he shouldn't be in midfield and shouldn't be captain.

I think people need to settle down, but with the ship on the pitch not steady, I fear this is going to get worse before it gets better.

I said after Arsenal that it was a poor result, and it was - because we should have won. Now we are in a position already where we are falling behind and cursing dropped points.

Very hard few weeks coming up for all involved.

Agree. Arsenal was a game we could have won, but I wasn't unhappy with the draw. The performances against WH and Man Utd were horrid but they were better in the Europa. I enjoyed yesterday's game, I was happy to see Moreno and Sakho in at the expense Gomez and Lovren. You'd think by some of the crowing on here that we have a God given right to 3 points each and every week. Norwich came with a tidy game plan and they got their reward.
It's not backs to the wall yet, Can was excellent for the most part yesterday and did a decent job driving forward when we reverted to a back four. It was a game we could have won, but didn't. There are plenty more games for us this season and there will be ups and downs, but it does get on my tits when people who support the team need to pick out individuals as the burnt offering; Lovren, Mignolet and now Milner. He did a job alongside Lucas and in the first half he did it very well. We dropped two points but we played with the tempo we have become used to and created the chances that on another day would have secured the win. I've had a good few sips this morning but my glass is definitely still half full. 

[SP]

Other than the suarez season, Rodgers has averaged less points, more goals conceeded and less goals scored per game than the owl. I think that says it all.

I really can't see things picking up, it is inevitable that there will be a change of manager. When though, I am not sure. I can see us limping on like this until the summer before the trigger is pulled. Another season down the pan.

And that stat is shit.

	P	W	D	L	F	A	W	D	L	F	A
Hodgson	31	13	8	10	41	33	41.9%	25.8%	32.3%	1.32	1.06
All Rodgers	162	83	37	42	287	196	51.2%	22.8%	25.9%	1.77	1.21
2013/14	43	29	6	8	110	57	67.4%	14.0%	18.6%	2.56	1.33
All Rodgers Except 2013/14	119	54	31	34	177	139	45.4%	26.1%	28.6%	1.49	1.17

Unfortunately likening our current manager to Hodgson, and using bogus stats to do it falls well short of the level of respect that our current manager should be accorded. Have some time off.

[The G in Gerrard]

I really thought we'd get 3 points yesterday. I didn't see us getting a draw or losing. I was surprised we didn't win, but at the end of the day, it's a "meh" rather than a shocker.

Can't see how things can change either. Beating Villa is an absolute must.

[adamski29]

I don't think that is 100% fair on FSG, saying they have no ambition, you seen the amount of money they have put into LFC and work on expansion, how can you say they have no ambition for our club?

I do agree though that they keep Rodgers in a job but they are advised of these things, they are not exactly football people, they will have advisors and whatnot but rest assured if results keep going this way they will make a move. I do like that at least they don't make rash moves based on 1 or two results, things CAN turn around, not saying they will but it's worth giving people a chance at times.

I'm more than willing  to accept that it is incompetence on the football side rather than lack of ambition. In the end though it amounts to the same thing. The football club is once again drifting and in the wrong direction.

That article that said that Warner and jhon Henry may have been willing to act or at least hold a real and critical review at the end of last season (rather than the faux one that appeared to go through the process but was in fact a fe ta compli) only for Mike Gordon and Ayre to appeal strongly on Brendan s behalf and thus we got what we got. Which many thought was the wrong decision at the time and now almost certainly so. It seems entirely plausible, given the strange certainty that Brendan seem to have about keeping his job coming towards the end of last season even amongst a long string of poor results and a poor season over all . He was quite confidently planning for the next season. The only time he seemed uncertain was in the imidiate aftermath of the 6_1 defeat to Stoke when he assumed like the rest of us that that would be the straw to break the camels back and he hadn't been given any fresh assurance s.

My question is one I have asked many times and the aforementioned scenario begs it again, who is Mike Gordon to be making football decisions of the likes he looks to have made in the summer?
Is he too close to Rodgers to make a professional decision?
Who is advising this guy if any?

[Chakan]

Can't see how things can change either. Beating Villa is an absolute must.

Can't see it either, didn't we say the same thing about Norwich though, must win game and all that.

Least Villa don't have Benteke

[muyuu]

Not for lovers of Liverpool goals it isn't! 

Exciting rebuilding job, character, etc. Outstanding times.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

No love for Morenos mom performance yesterday? He was one of our best attacking threats with his pace and crossing. His best game of the season. Hope he keeps it up , we have a player on our hands.

Ings also showed why he is not there to warm the bench. The injection of endeavour and pace in that striker role was welcome to see.

The only one i am concerned about is Milner. He bb just doesnt seem to have the passing ranger needed in your main CM. He runs around a lot, but that hasnt translated to goals\assists.

He reminded me of Scott Parker yesterday in the way he carried out the CM role. Always running, lots of endeavour and commitment, but no tactical awareness or vision.

Henderson cannot come in soon enough.

[SlowRap]

So you see no cause for concern?

Not really, I was starting to be concerned when Rodgers seemed unable to drop Lovren, but now the programmatic approach to picking players/formation is back I'm at ease.

Which teams do you think are our competition for top4?

I'd say Man City are the only guaranteed top 4 side, the other 3 places are up for grabs for about 8 teams.

[Suareznumber7]

I'd say Man City are the only guaranteed top 4 side, the other 3 places are up for grabs for about 8 teams.

Utd, Arse, and City are all guaranteed of top 4.  Chelsea will probably get there but there poor start means they have a lot of work to do.  They have way too much quality not to go on a good run and get the required points. 

The first 8 games is a big indicator of where you will finish the season.  I don't think anyone expects us to pick up maximum points in our next two games which would help keep us close.  Someone earlier in this thread or in a different one posted our points after the first 6 games in Rodgers 3 previous seasons.  The only season we started well was the year we finished 2nd in the league.  The other 2 seasons we started poorly and were bottom half of the table and finished up in 7th. 

[Rich]

As poor as we are at the moment, I still think top 4 is achievable.

This is probably the worst league I've seen since I've followed football. Pretty much every team is pathetic. Most teams can't pass a ball 10 yards, make a run, challenge or even look remotely arsed.

Well thats fair enough but they are closer to putting something together than we are.

Even if we start scoring again, we have issues that Brendan Rodgers has absolutely no idea how to resolve.   I wouldn't be so worried if I had seen even an inch of progress but we are just as vulnerable, clueless error prone at the back as we were during his first season.

[Weby72.]

If that game would have come after performances against WHU & MU which matched those of the opening 3 games (not great overall, but adequate) and perhaps 4 points from those 2 games, then most would accept the Norwich result as one of those things (clearly the better team, a few wasted chances to put the game to bed, sucker-punched late on)

But the woeful displays in the preceding 2 league games, characterised as much for managerial tactical ineptness as players not performing, means that focus is going to be cranked up on Rodgers.

The fact is, we did play better - but you'd hope we would against one of the favourites for relegation. As many have said, the seemingly scattergun approach to choosing a formation, along with some other questionable tactics & substitutions, means that Rodgers still has a long way to go to convince a hell of a lot of fans that another manager could not do an awful lot better.

[Buck Pete]

I really hope Rodgers goes with a full strength side in midweek. The team needs to bounce back in style and I couldn't give a fuck that it's 'just' Carlisle. 

Totally agree with this 100 fucking percent.

No academy kids should be anywhere near the squad let alone the starting 11.

A full strength team of available players. Get this won.  The regulars need to celebrate a win together and hopefully a few goals.

[RedRush]

To all those laying onto Coutinho for not passing, remember his out of the blue worldie got us 2 points Stoke away. Swings and roundabouts when we are not really playing as a team.

It's a much improved performance, the best this new season, but wait... against Norwich. We could have won if we put away our chances, but we could have lost too. Gone are the days when we score and know that the game is as good as won. My wife was telling me during the game that Norwich will equalize and that zippy(Well, at least zippier than any of ours) winger (Jarvis) will nick one at the close just you wait. I found myself agreeing with her. That's how it is nowadays. And true enough the equalizer came and we would have lost if Jarvis scores that flick - 9 times out of 10 it goes in.

Thought the team looked better, more team play, with Sakho and Moreno on, with Sakho pinging long passes forward and Moreno responsible for loads of chances with excellent vision, running and passing. Which begs the question why most of the fans see it (pro-Rodgers or not, I think most called for Sakho and Moreno), but Rodgers don't. Will he keep them, or drop them first chance he gets (i.e. a mistake from either)?

Ings was a very good substitution, but let's be clear Rodgers was inspired due to Benteke's hamstring problem. I liked it that the few times he played this season, he demonstrated a willingness to chase for lost causes, in addition to his deft ball control. The goal today was excellently chested down and executed.

Thought Milner has been poor, especially today. Today, he did not look the CM nor the captain material that Rodgers thinks he is. I think most fans were perplexed by both ideas. Yet coming into this game, he created the most chances - go figure this one out. Would have been right to sub Milner off today though, what with his poor display and early yellow.

And Mignolet... most fans correctly identified this as one of the major problem positions that needed the most attention, but sadly nothing was done over the summer. Every goalkeeper we've been up against has looked better than Mignolet, and Ruddy was no different - he was excellent on the day.

[LFCsupporter]

Chelsea'll click sooner or later. Might even overhaul Arsenal yet. I'd say the only weak competition for 4th is United provided that van bellend falls out with a few senior players over the season. Not a given by any means, and with De Gea still there I think they'll have that ability to just scrape a 1-0 when they're not in form.

We really should be putting teams like West ham and Norwich to the sword at Anfield. No excuses really. We have the strikers now.

[wemmick]

Yes, although I think they will bring in someone tactically similar and our approach will still be pressure based. If not we require a whole new midfield.

Klopp seems tailor made. Tuchel seems to have tightened them up signifcantly though so you'd wonder are there even better managers than Klopp in Germany, maybe Schmidt.

Schmidt is a good manager, and Lucien Favre is available now. Both are better tactically than Rodgers, but I don't know if they are better than Klopp. He is a very good tactician and a supreme motivator. He lost his way a bit last season with all the injuries, but Klopp has mastered counter-pressing, and he is pretty damn good tactically in possession. They were awful in the first half of the season, but they battered some lower-table teams in the second half, and competed with those at the top. Tuchel seems to be largely refining Klopp's methods and the foundations he set at Dortmund, according to that article, and I think we'd be lucky to have such foundations here.

Honestly, I think I'd rather have Klopp than Schmidt or Favre, if only because we know he can create solid foundations for the club that other very good managers can build on. I'm not sure Rodgers has done that with the first team since Suarez left. In some ways we seemed foundationless last season, and it's continuing this season.

[AB LFC]

His comments to the press before and after every game are just pure insanity and stinks of a man who has run out of ideas. People used to hang on every one of Hodgson's words and slaughtered him for much less. It's apparent he still has that get out of jail card for the Suarez season.

[SP]

Schmidt is a good manager, and Lucien Favre is available now. Both are better tactically than Rodgers, but I don't know if they are better than Klopp. He is a very good tactician and a supreme motivator. He lost his way a bit last season with all the injuries, but Klopp has mastered counter-pressing, and he is pretty damn good tactically in possession. They were awful in the first half of the season, but they battered some lower-table teams in the second half, and competed with those at the top. Tuchel seems to be largely refining Klopp's methods and the foundations he set at Dortmund, according to that article, and I think we'd be lucky to have such foundations here.

Honestly, I think I'd rather have Klopp than Schmidt or Favre, if only because we know he can create solid foundations for the club that other very good managers can build on. I'm not sure Rodgers has done that with the first team since Suarez left. In some ways we seemed foundationless last season, and it's continuing this season.

We are not discussing who can be our next manager whilst we still have a manager. On RAWK we expect you to show the manager respect. And whilst we may have reached the point that we have allowed speculation as to whether Brendan's time is up, we have not declared open season on him. Discussing his replacement whilst he is still in the job is disrespectful, and we don't do that.

[spider-neil]

So it's called 'The Suarez season' now. Despite the contributions of Sturridge, Gerrard, Coutinho and Sterling?

[stockdam]

To all those laying onto Coutinho for not passing, remember his out of the blue worldie got us 2 points Stoke away. Swings and roundabouts when we are not really playing as a team.

Agree it's not good to pick on individual mistakes but instead look at the bigger picture. Running in on Norwich's goal you could see that he was looking around for support and I didn't feel that he was confident. He could have passed early to Ings but in the end the defender got too close to Danny and so Coutinho had no choice but to shoot. For me he doesn't finish enough of his chances and at times makes poor decisions. However when he does score they tend to be beauts. If he can sort out his finishing then he'll become a great player.

[Pradan]

So it's called 'The Suarez season' now. Despite the contributions of Sturridge, Gerrard, Coutinho and Sterling?

Considering as soon as he left, it's all gone to shit, then maybe it is a justified title.