Author Topic: Austerity - For and Against  (Read 57998 times)

Offline Trada

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #160 on: November 12, 2015, 10:29:25 am »
I can see the conondrum, Mac. Laugh or an outrage...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire?CMP=share_btn_tw

David Cameron accused of breaking ministerial code in row with his local council over cuts to frontline services

Labour has written to the Cabinet Secretary asking for a ruling on whether the PM broke the rules after inviting councillors into Downing Street to discuss cuts to services in his Witney constituency 

http://linkis.com/independent.co.uk/Y9ht2
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Offline Trada

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #161 on: November 12, 2015, 10:43:47 am »
I can see the conondrum, Mac. Laugh or an outrage...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire?CMP=share_btn_tw

If I was Jeremy I would use this letter at PMQS and just use it as a question to Cameron.

I have a letter from Dave from Witney he is very worried about local cuts..........
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Trada

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #162 on: November 12, 2015, 10:47:30 am »
Councillor who announced closure of public toilets fined for urinating in street

South Lanarkshire Council deputy leader 'embarrassed' after he is spotted urinating in town centre just months after he oversaw closure of public toilets

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11989201/South-Lanarkshire-Council-deputy-leader-Jackie-Burns-fined-for-urinating-in-street.html
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #163 on: November 12, 2015, 11:59:37 am »
If I was Jeremy I would use this letter at PMQS and just use it as a question to Cameron.

I have a letter from Dave from Witney he is very worried about local cuts..........
:lmao :lmao
Dave was horrified to learn these cuts might actually affect his life as he believed the cuts only affected the poorer areas.
Chris Bryant

It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
10:42 PM · May 25, 2024
·

Offline hide5seek

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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #165 on: November 12, 2015, 10:12:53 pm »
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Offline Peabee

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #166 on: November 13, 2015, 12:17:02 am »
Income and Expenditure are linked in an economy, so I always find it disingenuous of the Tories etc to compare austerity to tightening a household's purse-strings.  If you spend less of your wages, it doesn't affect your income, but if the government spends less, it reduces income, which in turn reduces expenditure, and so on.   Thus, cutting spending on welfare is a false economy because welfare recipients are more likely to spend the majority of every extra pound they receive, which goes back into the economy, and back into tax receipts etc. 

Austerity is simply a Tory ideology.  As has been pointed out countless times, the crash wasn't caused by govt spending and in fact, government spending should have increased to stimulate production.  But no, via QE, they pushed the money to the very banks that caused the crash.   

People voted them in because they hadn't felt the effects of the cuts yet.  I'm starting to think Economics should be taught to all 14/15 year olds.   A complex system such as the economy doesn't behave as common sense would have us believe. 
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #167 on: November 14, 2015, 10:11:09 am »
Doesn't seem to be anywhere to post this these days.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-sanctions-against-people-with-mental-health-problems-up-by-600-per-cent-a6731971.html

I know - it's a shame we had to lock the last thread about this as that's a story that I have a personal interest in.
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Offline Trada

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #168 on: November 14, 2015, 01:20:14 pm »
David Cameron Lobbied Against Police Cuts In His Oxfordshire Constituency; Faces Fresh 'Hypocrisy' Charges

David Cameron is facing fresh ‘hypocrisy’ charges after it emerged he had lobbied against police cuts in his local area.

Just days after a leaked letter set out his criticism of Oxfordshire County Council service cuts, the Prime Minister was revealed to have argued also against the closure of police stations in his Witney constituency.

Mr Cameron privately lobbied to stop the closure of police stations in his own backyard as Thames Valley Police force tried to find nearly £60m of savings, the BBC’s Newsnight reported.

Downing Street vigorously rejected the 'hypocrisy' charge and said the PM had acted in his capacity as a local MP because he believed Thames Valley Police could save money without hitting front-line services.

Earlier this week it emerged that Mr Cameron had made similar calls for cuts to be redirected away from the front line, writing to Oxfordshire council leader Ian Hudspeth saying he was "disappointed" at planned cuts to elderly day centres, libraries, children’s centres and museums.

Despite being praised by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary for being an efficient and well-run force, Thames Valley still closed seven police stations, and reduced opening hours at others.

One police source told Newsnight the force had done the best it could but could not afford to keep open stations that "hardly anyone ever uses”.

Shadow cabinet minister Jon Ashworth said the prime minister was "completely unaware" of the effects of budget cuts in local communities.

"I think it's jaw-droppingly hypocritical from the prime minister because the reason these services are being cut in his constituency is because he is cutting them," Mr Ashworth said.

"He is the First Lord of the Treasury, he is the man who is signing off George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford's cuts plan, so I'm surprised that the Prime Minister is so out of touch with what the impact of these cuts would mean that he is now lobbying organisations in his own constituency against the very cuts he is implementing.”

Steve White, chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales, was equally scathing.

"It's a bit disingenuous to have some politicians say they want to protect their own local police station but actually they know full well that it will be at the cost of other police stations around the country or indeed in the force," he said.

Downing Street denied that Mr Cameron was being hypocritical, and a spokesman said Mr Cameron had spoken up as a local MP during conversations with local police chiefs.

"He wants to see local authorities and the police making sensible savings through back office efficiencies and joint working," he said.

After the Prime Minister offered to a personal meeting with his No.10 Policy chief to discuss how to ease the council cuts, HuffPost UK revealed that 116 Labour council leaders are writing to demand similar one-on-one Downing Street meetings.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/14/david-cameron-lobbied-aga_n_8562854.html
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Trada

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #169 on: November 14, 2015, 05:50:45 pm »
Meals on wheels: 60% drop prompts malnutrition warning

More than 46,000 older people seen their "meals on wheels" axed in the last three years, according to an analysis of official data.

The study by the Malnutrition Task Force found that the number of people receiving the meals in England has fallen from 75,885 in 2010/2011 to 29,605 in 2013/14 - a 61% decrease.

Spending on meals on wheels for people aged 65 and over has fallen 47%, from £42.1 million in 2010/11 to £22.3 million in 2013/14.

The falls have all come amid shrinking social services budgets.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-11-13/meals-on-wheels-60-drop-prompts-malnutrition-warning/
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #170 on: November 16, 2015, 05:50:48 pm »
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Offline Mad Max

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Offline Trada

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #172 on: November 17, 2015, 09:02:24 am »
I see the Government have suddenly found Billions down the back of the sofa when it comes to war.

Only last week they were saying we had no money and would have to take more away from the poorest people in the country.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #173 on: November 17, 2015, 09:09:48 am »
I know - it's a shame we had to lock the last thread about this as that's a story that I have a personal interest in.
I have no personal interest (as of yet but in life you never know). I really feel for those with mental health issues the most, they really are getting the shit end of the stick from this Government.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #174 on: November 17, 2015, 09:18:35 am »
Lower than vermin.
Agree but its are own fault. How many people will boycott next? Over 10 million people vote Labour, SNP or Greens and if all of them boycotted Tory supporting companies it would be a start of a fight back.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #175 on: November 17, 2015, 12:50:34 pm »
Soooo. Looking for reasons for 590 more suicides, 279,000 more cases of mental health issues and 725,000 more prescriptions for anti-depressants than would be expected across 3 years. Study authors suggest impact of work capability assessments.. DWP say 'nope, not us'. This is the department which declined to follow up research into the rise of the foodbanks being related to policy, citing 'there is no robust evidence'. Until the research was done without them to prove IDS was wrong about that too. Are Tory policies making people sicker? Less likely to be able to return to work? Oh fuck, let's throw it out there. Are Tory policies driving people to kill themselves in much larger numbers than even the shocking stories which make the press suggest? Think it's a question worth asking, something perhaps worth following up with more study, inconvenient as it may be to the narrative of the great economic leap forward.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/16/dwp-suicides-assessments-research_n_8577038.html

edit: Goodness, the Beeb has found some balls to question the government line.

Quote
Nearly 600 suicides in England may be associated with the government's "fit-for-work" tests, research suggests.
Oxford and Liverpool researchers looked at 2010-13 data and also found the Work Capability Assessments could be linked to a rise in mental health problems.
The study found the areas with most WCAs showed the sharpest increases.
The government said the report was "wholly misleading" and the authors had cautioned that no conclusions could be drawn about cause and effect.
However, the researchers said that while a causal link could not be established, they had tried to adjust for other factors which may have influenced the results.
They also noted that the observed increases in mental ill health followed - rather than preceded - the reassessment process.
'Serious consequences'
The academic paper, published in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, examined 149 English council areas.
It found that each additional 10,000 people subjected to a WCA was associated with an additional six suicides, 2,700 cases of reported mental health problems, and the prescribing of an additional 7,020 anti-depressants.
Overall, that amounted to 590 extra suicides, 279,000 additional cases of mental health problems and an additional 725,000 anti-depressants across England as a whole.
The higher the number of assessments the greater the increase in these adverse mental health outcomes, the research found.
The researchers said: "Our study provides evidence that the policy in England of re-assessing the eligibility of benefit recipients using the WCA may have unintended but serious consequences for population mental health.
"There is a danger that these adverse effects outweigh any benefits that may or may not arise from moving people off disability benefits."
Disability rights campaigners have argued that the process has led to unnecessary deaths.
Almost 20,000 people have signed a petition calling on the government to act on its commitment to reform the assessments.
Tom Holland, policy and campaigns manager of mental health charity Mind, said: "This worrying study shines a light on the damaging impact the WCAs can have on people's mental health."
System extended
Labour said the study raised "serious questions" about how the government's approach to getting people into work was impacting on their mental health.
Shadow mental health minister Luciana Berger said: "It is unacceptable to have a system that causes vulnerable people anxiety, putting their health at further risk.
"When only a small proportion of people with mental health problems are moving into employment, the government must accept that their approach is deeply flawed."
A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: "This report is wholly misleading, and the authors themselves caution that no conclusions can be drawn about cause and effect.
"In addition, it is concerning that they provide no evidence that the people with mental health problems highlighted in the report even underwent a Work Capability Assessment."
Work Capability Assessments were introduced by Labour in 2008 for claimants of Employment and Support Allowance (ESA).
The coalition government extended the system to existing recipients of incapacity benefit, the predecessor of ESA, in 2010, as well as periodically re-assessing ESA recipients.
Prof Thom Baguley, associate dean for research at Nottingham Trent University, said more evidence was needed, but added: "The study provides evidence that the specific application of this policy (the way reassessment of cases was conducted) increased the suicide rate and outcomes associated with adverse mental health in those people affected.
"The evidence goes beyond merely establishing a correlation but falls short of establishing a causal link."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34838539
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 01:01:33 pm by Zeb »
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #176 on: November 17, 2015, 01:18:18 pm »
Labour said the study raised "serious questions" about how the government's approach to getting people into work was impacting on their mental health.

Work Capability Assessments were introduced by Labour in 2008 for claimants of Employment and Support Allowance (ESA).

 ::)
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Offline Father Ted

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #177 on: November 19, 2015, 05:47:57 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34864328

Cameron thoughtfully gifts himself and senior ministers a new private plane to fly around in. Good to see we're all still in it together (the belt-tightening that is, not the plane).

Offline Trada

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #178 on: November 19, 2015, 06:16:25 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34864328

Cameron thoughtfully gifts himself and senior ministers a new private plane to fly around in. Good to see we're all still in it together (the belt-tightening that is, not the plane).

No more photo ops like eating Pringles on Easyjet then to make him look like one of the people.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #179 on: November 19, 2015, 07:57:46 am »
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/18/george-osborne-housing-benefit-cuts-tax-credits-500-per-year

Cuts to housing benefit could make claimants £570 a year worse off
Institute for Public Policy research says alternative to tax credits cuts could save £2.4bn but would hit 4.8 million households

 The IPPR says cuts to housing benefits will damage the in-work poor the most. Photograph: Ben Pruchnie/Getty Images
Patrick Wintour political editor

Wednesday 18 November 2015 21.00 GMT Last modified on Wednesday 18 November 2015 23.36 GMT


Cuts to housing benefit – now seen as the Treasury’s preferred alternative to cutting tax credits – are likely to damage similar groups of in-work poor claimants by depriving them of more than £500 a year, suggests fresh research by the Institute for Public Policy Research.

The thinktank’s research indicates if the chancellor makes all housing benefit claimants pay the first 10% of their rent from their own funds, he will save around £2.4bn a year, but hit 4.8 million households. The housing benefit budget has risen in recent years and now costs the Treasury £25bn.

Their analysis comes as George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford has been forced by a Conservative backbench rebellion to backtrack on his plan, first set out in his summer budget, to cut tax credits. Cutting housing benefit entitlement could help make up the shortfall.

Osborne may be able to argue that housing benefit could be presented as an effort to incentivise households to look for cheaper properties. But the IPPR says the cuts will mean an average loss of £570 a year for households living in the private rented sector, while social housing tenants would lose £460 a year. The impact would be particularly hard on those living in high cost housing markets such as London, Cambridge, York and Oxford.

Nick Pearce, director of IPPR, said: “Like the planned cuts to tax credits, our analysis shows the other welfare cuts that the chancellor is probably considering could have a serious impact on the pockets of working families, people who need help to pay their rent or are genuinely unable to work.”

Analysis Master strategist or political blunderer? Will the real George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford please stand up
Just two months ago the chancellor appeared unassailable – a shoo-in as the Tories’ next leader. Now his plans to slash tax credits by £4bn have led to a setback that could prove terminal
 Read more
The chancellor announced on Tuesday that he has reached an agreement with the work and pensions secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, over the department’s budget before the autumn statement on Wednesday. It will set out departmental cuts for the rest of the parliament as well as provide an update of the Office of Budget Responsibility’s forecasts for public finances.

Osborne is still determined to meet his goal of achieving a surplusin the national budget by the end of the parliament, and will find some savings from better than expected forecasts due to low interest rates.

A proposed raid on Uuniversal Credit by increasing the amount of benefit that is withdrawn for every pound earned – the taper rate – has been rejected by the DWP.

The IPPR added that if Osborne is due to reach his £4.4bn in savings, any cuts to housing benefit will have to fall between 2016/17 and 2019/20, rather than exclusively at the end of the parliament, when universal credit is fully rolled out .

The taper rate is currently at 65%, but there are suggestions it could increase to 75 %. Doing that would bring in £2.6bn in 2020. This compares to £3.3bn raised by work allowance cuts in 2020, as announced in the summer budget.

The IPPR says another way to cut the housing benefit budget would be to cut the local housing allowance; the housing benefit subsidy in the private rented sector. Rent subsidies currently fund rents corresponding to 30% of the market level and reducing that to 20% would save £400m a year.

The IPPR says evidence shows that this does not generally reduce market rents – rather tenants end up paying more for where they live. This would be particularly damaging in high-cost housing markets where, due to successive freezes to LHA rates coupled with rent rises, fewer and fewer properties are available at the bottom 20% of the market, let alone 30%. Another option would be to further reduce the welfare cap, which would essentially act as a further housing benefit cut.

Pearce said: “The government faces the same charge which stirred such a strong opposition to the tax credit changes: that they are hitting vulnerable people, but in different areas of the welfare budget. The chancellor is backed into a corner and cannot find an easy way out.”
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #180 on: November 19, 2015, 07:58:19 am »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #181 on: November 19, 2015, 01:27:18 pm »
No more photo ops like eating Pringles on Easyjet then to make him look like one of the people.

George Osbo wants to know how high it will get him.
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #182 on: November 19, 2015, 04:25:57 pm »
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/18/george-osborne-housing-benefit-cuts-tax-credits-500-per-year

Interesting wording in that article - they look for the cuts, THEN come up with an argument to justify them.
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #183 on: November 19, 2015, 05:17:50 pm »
After careful consideration, I'm now officially in favour of Gideon's austerity programme. I came to this conclusion after reading this heartbreaking account of two, ordinary middle class Londoners:

By most measures Adam and Megan Brownson would be considered very affluent.

Their respective careers - in management consultantancy and personal injury law - give them a joint income of £190,000. The couple also own two properties with a combined value of more than £1m, putting them in the wealthiest 1pc of households in Britain.

But the pair are worried about becoming “financially broken” as the sheer cost of middle-class life in London means they are stretched to the brink. They spend everything they earn – and more.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12000288/We-earn-190k-a-year.-Do-we-need-to-sell-our-flat-to-afford-private-school-fees.html

We simply can't go on like this.

So I say, with a heavy heart: Fuck the disabled, the unemployed and the tax credit moochers! It's the suffering of London management consultants and personal injury lawyers which needs to be addressed urgently. I hope you're happy now, Cameron!
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #184 on: November 19, 2015, 09:02:03 pm »
After careful consideration, I'm now officially in favour of Gideon's austerity programme. I came to this conclusion after reading this heartbreaking account of two, ordinary middle class Londoners:

By most measures Adam and Megan Brownson would be considered very affluent.

Their respective careers - in management consultantancy and personal injury law - give them a joint income of £190,000. The couple also own two properties with a combined value of more than £1m, putting them in the wealthiest 1pc of households in Britain.

But the pair are worried about becoming “financially broken” as the sheer cost of middle-class life in London means they are stretched to the brink. They spend everything they earn – and more.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12000288/We-earn-190k-a-year.-Do-we-need-to-sell-our-flat-to-afford-private-school-fees.html

We simply can't go on like this.


Am awful dilemma I'm sure we can all relate to - do you cash in the £145,000 equity in your buy to let property to fund the £24,000 p/a school fees for your two primary school age children?!

You know they're being absurd when even the comments section in The Telegraph are slating them.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #185 on: November 19, 2015, 09:41:51 pm »
Just because.



« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 09:48:33 pm by Trada »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #186 on: November 19, 2015, 10:41:32 pm »
You wont know what austerity means until the latest rounds of public spending cuts bite....all public sector bodies have spent the past 5 years, cutting and cutting....and now it will hit hard, and it wont just be 'the poor' who will suffer it will be all of us...right across the board it will impact on your lives in ways you never even realised , not just the headline grabbing services...it will feel like if you have a problem and need a public service that no one will give a fuck...Well plenty of people give a fuck , but they will no longer employed doing those jobs that increase the quality of your life by running the infra structure of this country.

Here's a thought for the knobs who think too much is spent on the public sector....every pound that goes into it....ends up in the private sector.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #187 on: November 20, 2015, 11:52:54 am »
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/20/worst-uk-deficit-figures-six-years-george-osborne


Shock UK deficit figures dent George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford's economic plan
Gap between state spending and revenue is worst in October for six years with economists warning chancellor will need further austerity or miss annual target

George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford’s deficit-cutting drive has been dealt a blow ahead of his spending review next week after official figures showed the worst October for the public finances in six years.

The deficit, or the gap between what the government spends and takes in, swelled by 16% from a year earlier to £8.2bn in October, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). It was a larger shortfall than the £6bn economists had expected in a Reuters poll.

The chancellor wants to eliminate the deficit on the public finances by the end of the decade. As part of that push, he will unveil plans in his spending review on 25 November to cut government department spending by around £20bn over the next four years.

Economists said the latest public finances suggest Osborne will miss his deficit-cutting goals for this year and that he will redouble austerity measures in next week’s spending review and accompanying budget update, known as the autumn statement.

“October’s poor borrowing numbers extinguish any lingering hope that the chancellor will be able to soften his austerity plans materially in next week’s autumn statement,”said Samuel Tombs, chief UK economist at the consultancy Pantheon Macroeconomics.

Borrowing would have to be an “implausible” 48% lower year-over-year in the second half of this fiscal year for the chancellor to meet the Office for Budget Responsibility’s forecast of a £69.5bn deficit over the year as a whole, said Tombs. The ONS figures showed that in the financial year so far, public sector net borrowing was already £54.3bn.

The OBR publishes new forecasts at the time of the autumn statement next week and is widely expected to raise its forecast for the deficit for this full financial year.

The deficit for the financial year starting in April until October was smaller than a year earlier but not down by as much as the government would have liked at this stage. The decrease of £6.6bn, or 10.9% compared with the same period a year earlier, was mainly driven by a drop in central government net borrowing but partially offset by an increase in local government net borrowing, the ONS said.

Reacting to the last public finances update before the spending review, a Treasury spokeswoman said rising employment and wages showed the government’s economic plan “is working”.

“But as today’s public sector finance figures show the job is not yet done and government borrowing remains too high,” she added.

“We’ve learned there’s no shortcut to fixing the public finances to provide economic security for working people – that’s why in the spending review next week we’ll continue the hard work of identifying savings and making reforms necessary to build a resilient economy.”

The prolonged squeeze on wage growth since the recession has repeatedly led to disappointing tax receipts. But with the latest official figures showing pay increasing at an annual rate of 3%, income-related taxes are recovering.

Advertisement

However, economists warn that a recent slowdown in economic growth could bode ill for future government income.

Howard Archer, economist at the consultancy IHS Global Insight, described the latest figures as “very disappointing and difficult news for Chancellor George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford to digest”.

“Furthermore, with the economy seeing GDP growth slow in the third quarter, there is the risk that tax receipts could undershoot going forward. The chancellor will obviously be hoping that the economy can kick on and is not hampered by global growth being held back by a marked slowdown in China and emerging markets,” said Archer.

“He will also be hoping that the economy is not handicapped significantly by heightened uncertainty in the run-up to the referendum on UK membership of the European Union.”

Net debt



With the government still running deficits each month, the UK’s total debt pile is still increasing, according to the ONS. In total, the UK now owes more than £1.5tn, equivalent to 80.5% of GDP. That compares with 69% in 2010/11, Osborne’s first year as chancellor under the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #188 on: November 20, 2015, 03:39:36 pm »
How did Einstein define insanity again...?
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #189 on: November 20, 2015, 04:19:55 pm »
How did Einstein define insanity again...?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein




;)
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #190 on: November 20, 2015, 04:25:37 pm »
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein




;)

Ah yes, that was it.  "It's still not working - we must not be cutting enough."
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #191 on: November 21, 2015, 05:47:29 am »
Ah yes, that was it.  "It's still not working - we must not be cutting enough."

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

But then this is politics, not anything else. They have a chance to destroy all those nasty social things like the NHS, like social provision etc etc. They can recreate their Victorian idyll and use the mess they've created themselves as justification. Until people wake up to that and vote them out, it will continue. Interesting watching the US election where the Jewish communist (not Jesus) is making a lot of friends by speaking out against horse and sparrow economics.
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #192 on: November 21, 2015, 08:46:11 am »
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

But then this is politics, not anything else. They have a chance to destroy all those nasty social things like the NHS, like social provision etc etc. They can recreate their Victorian idyll and use the mess they've created themselves as justification. Until people wake up to that and vote them out, it will continue. Interesting watching the US election where the Jewish communist (not Jesus) is making a lot of friends by speaking out against horse and sparrow economics.

No point voting them out now.

They've won. The NHS has already been destroyed. It is just in its dying moments before the vultures steam in and 'rescue it'.

The Police have already been Privatised. They will be Securicor or G4S. The Prisons and Probation have already gone and been given away. The Fire Services will be privatised. The Ambulances (Those that are left) will be privatised. The remaining public interests and stocks will be given away to their mates like the rest.

This country doesn't exist as a country. Councils will be targetted once again and public services will become unreliable, random and then non-existent.

Of course, we'll still have to pay our taxes to pay for War.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #193 on: November 21, 2015, 08:54:28 am »
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/george-osbornes-fee-pass.html

How the mainstream media give George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford a free pass on the failure of ideological austerity.

One of the main reasons that the Tories have kept getting away with the their ideological austerity agenda is the pro-austerity bias of the mainstream media.

I'm not going to get sidetracked into explaining why ideological austerity is failing so badly. If you want to know more about that you can read my articles on the austerity con and the "economic recovery" lie, as well as my articles explaining fiscal multiplication, the marginal propensity to consume and the difference between a debt and a deficit.

It would also be easy to get sidetracked into explaining how the mainstream media has become so blatantly unbalanced, but I'll just point out the overwhelming right-wing bias of the corporate print media, and the way that Tony Blair castrated the BBC for daring to question the UK government narrative in favour of causing the ongoing catastrophe in Iraq.
In this article I'm not going to criticise the bias of the right-wing press. We all know that the Murdoch press, the Daily Mail (including their Metro freesheet), Telegraph, Express, Evening Standard ... will almost always take a wholly uncritical pro-austerity line. You'd have to be pretty naive to expect balanced coverage from that lot. What I'm going to look at is how even the supposedly left-wing media provide spectacularly uncritical analyses of George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford's ideological austerity agenda too.

The focus of my critique will be an article in the Guardian by their economics reporter Katie Allen entitled "Shock UK deficit figures dent George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford's economic plan". I'm not having a go at this article because it's a particularly outstanding example of pro-austerity bias in the left-wing press because it's not. It's actually a very typical example of the free pass George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford always seems to get from the mainstream press.

A shock?

Is it really a "shock" that George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford has missed his economic projections once again? Remember how back in 2010 that his ideological austerity agenda would have completely eliminated the budget deficit by now? Well "shock deficit figures" show that Osborne is on course to badly miss his much revised target of borrowing an extra £69.5 billion in 2015.

The scale of George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford's excess borrowing is so bad that he's created more new public debt than every single Labour government in history (measured in pounds and as a percentage of GDP).

In 2010 Osborne said we wouldn't be borrowing anything at all by 2015, yet here he is failing to meet his revised target of borrowing £69.5 billion this year. Somehow the article makes no reference to this at all, instead painting it some kind of surprise that George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford's current projections are wrong.

Surely it would be more of a shock if George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford's maths actually added up for a change?

Where is the political balance?

The article extensively quotes an unnamed "Treasury spokeswoman" who gives a masterful display of Tory propaganda speak, piffling on about "providing economic security for working people" when the actual plan is to harm the economic security of millions of working families by slashing Tax Credits (in precisely the way the Tory party promised they weren't going to).

Not a single Labour politician is asked for their opinion (not even a Blairite one) and nobody from any other political party is given the opportunity to hold the government to account.

Some balance eh?

Which economists?

The subheading to the article asserts that "economists" are "warning chancellor will need further austerity or miss annual target" as if there is some kind of economic consensus that the only solution to failing austerity is even more austerity.

In reality economic opinion is divided on austerity. Two thirds of economists say that ideological austerity has damaged the UK economy. Opposing ideological austerity is hardly an extreme-left position either. Just look at Canada where Justin Trudeau just led the Liberal party to a historic victory on an anti-austerity pro-growth platform.

Given the general economic consensus that ideological austerity is economically harmful; that Osborne's austerity policies are demonstrably failing; and that anti-austerity politics is mainstream and highly popular in other countries, one would have thought that it would be possible for the author to find at least one economist to actually critique the ideological austerity agenda that has caused the slowest post-crisis economic recovery in recorded history. But no, the article features quotes from three corporate economists who all speak from a position of complete unquestioning faith in austerity.

It's hardly surprising that the consensus amongst wealthy corporate economists is that the austerity show (that benefits the super-wealthy at the expense of almost everyone else) must go on.

Corporate economists

The three economists are Howard Archer of IHS global, Chris Hare of Investec and Samuel Tombs of Pantheon Macroeconomic. The article does not make clear how these quotations were selected, Whether it was on the basis that they are friends of the author, or by some other methodology is not clear.

Not a single academic economist was asked for their opinion. This imbalance would be bad enough if it were just the fact that the article relies solely on corporate economists, but one of the companies represented actually has financial links with the Tory party.

The Chief Economist at Pantheon Macroeconimic Samuel Tombs was quoted as saying "October’s poor borrowing numbers extinguish any lingering hope that the chancellor will be able to soften his austerity plans materially in next week’s autumn statement" but no mention was made of the the fact one of the senior partners of the Pantheon group (Rhoddy Swire) is a major donor to the Tory party having given at least £13,620 in donations to the Tories.

It's bad enough that the author doesn't bother to find one single source who is prepared to actually criticise the crackpot pseudo-economic ideology that underpins Osborne's failing "economic plan", but that she quotes the position of a company founded by a guy who actually helped put George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford and his ilk into power in the first place is quite another.

Conclusions

The fact that an economics article in the supposedly left-wing Guardian does absolutely nothing to hold George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford to account for his economic failures illustrates how desperately unbalanced the mainstream media has become. It's apparently beyond the pale these days to offer the opinion of a single dissenting voice, even in the so-called left-wing press. The first conclusion must surely be that the Guardian has now shed all pretence at being a left-wing paper.

The second conclusion is that George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford continues to get a free pass from the mainstream press. If it is the job of the press to hold politicians to account for their failings (rather than turn a profit for their shareholders, or promote the economic interests of their owners), then the mainstream media are not fit for purpose. If anyone else in any other occupation had presided over so many consecutive years of blunders, overspends and missed targets due to their rigid adherence to a purely ideological agenda they would have been mercilessly ridiculed and condemned by the press, yet George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford apparently has a free pass of indefinite duration, no matter how badly he continues to fail at getting his sums right.



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Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #194 on: November 21, 2015, 04:57:30 pm »
 .Osborne,  considers axing student nurse bursaries

Stopping public funding for students of nursing would save £800m a year but could worsen NHS recruitment problems

Student nurses may stop receiving bursaries and instead have to take out loans to pay their tuition fees under plans the Treasury is considering.

Officials are examining the viability of the cost-cutting measure which the chancellor, George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford, could announce in his spending review next Wednesday.

Civil servants are weighing up the potential unpopularity of the move, and the risk of it worsening the existing shortage of NHS nurses, against it potentially freeing up about £800m a year for the government.

It is one of a series of cuts to non-frontline areas of NHS activity and funding that Treasury officials are examining as part of a division of the Department of Health’s ringfenced £116bn annual budget into protected and non-protected areas.

Public health has already suffered a £200m cut and there are also likely to be fewer or less rigorous inspections of hospitals and GP surgeries as part of savings forced on the Care Quality Commission, the NHS care watchdog.

The axing of public funding for future generations of nurses would be controversial. The boss of the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) warned that ending financial support could hit recruitment by putting off people from poorer backgrounds and those considering a change in career.

“Anything that makes people worse off and puts people off from becoming nurses, and reduces the link between student nurses and the NHS, would be a big loss to our society and put us in a precarious position,” said Janet Davies, the RCN’s general secretary and chief executive. She described the plan as “not helpful”.

The proposal could deter the sizeable number of student nurses already owing significant amounts from a previous degree, Davies warned. “The average age of students on nursing degree courses is 29. They’re not all 18-year-olds,” she said.

The Department of Health currently spends £826m a year to help fund about 60,000 student nurses in England through their three-year degree courses. That £826m comes from the £5bn a year the department gives to Health Education England (HEE), the NHS education and training body, which distributes the money to student nurses.

HEE’s budget has become a prime target for the Treasury as it looks for savings. HEE spends £432m and £253m a year on tuition fees and bursaries for nurses, as well as other sums such as £88m on work placements, which take up a lot of their studies.

HEE is at risk of having its income slashed because it is one of the key health bodies funded by the £11bn of the health department’s £116bn budget that is vulnerable to the Whitehall-wide search for savings and which may be removed from the NHS ringfence. Most of the rest of HEE’s budget is seen as untouchable because it uses another £3.5bn a year to pay the salaries of junior doctors while they are undergoing training.

Universities UK and the Council of Deans of Health, which speaks for university faculties in nursing and midwifery, have been pressing the Treasury to axe bursaries. They have argued that doing so could lead to an increase in the number of trainee nurses because the existing public funding of them puts an artificial cap on how many can be trained, because HEE commissions a set number of training places each year from British universities.

They claim that the huge demand to study nursing – there are between five and 10 applicants for each of the 20,000 places a year – means switching to student loans would not lead to a fall in trainees. “The overdemand for places is so great that [the Treasury thinks] it will be relatively easy to land,” said a source familiar with its thinking.

Universities have also complained that they lose money because the amount HEE pays them for each student nursing place is 8%-12% less than it costs them to provide courses, which run for much more of the year than most degree courses and so are more expensive to put on.

The Department of Health is thought to be relaxed about replacing bursaries with loans because it is concerned that too many publicly funded student nurses do not go on to enter the profession after graduating.

Dame Jessica Corner, chair of the Council of Deans of Health, last month criticised the existing system of funding nurses as “fragile and vulnerable” to pressures affecting the NHS. Nursing students also suffered “quite a lot of hardship” because the bursaries were “relatively underfunded” compared with undergraduates who relied on student loans, she said.

The RCN is also concerned that bursaries leave many student nurses with too little money to live on.

Labour voiced unease at the possible loss of nursing bursaries. “NHS staff have already been hit by a pay freeze, and many nurses will be affected by the cuts to tax credits too. It cannot be right for ministers to try and balance the books off the backs of hard-pressed nurses,” said shadow health minister Justin Madders.

“Given there is already a shortage of nurses, with some hospital wards dangerously understaffed, anything that risks worsening that shortage would be of deep concern,” he added.

Ian Cumming, HEE’s chief executive, has previously warned that removing HEE from the department’s funding ringfence would lead to cuts in frontline NHS services. “Absolutely the budget should be ringfenced because the vast majority of what we do is direct frontline expenditure on the HS,” he told Health Service Journal in an interview in September.

The CQC is likely to have to scale back the number and depth of the inspections it conducts of hospitals, GP surgeries and care homes because it too is likely to have its budget cut, despite its enhanced role in the wake of the Mid Staffs scandal.

http://linkis.com/www.theguardian.com/ffS7l
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #195 on: November 21, 2015, 05:15:35 pm »
Sometimes a man stands up during supper
and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #196 on: November 21, 2015, 08:01:42 pm »
From ComRes.

Latest @TheSundayMirror / Independent on Sunday poll:
Con 42% (NC)
Lab 27% (-2)
LD 7% (NC)
UKIP 15% (+2) https://t.co/iLLADGKtnR

I fucking despair. Apparently its the biggest Tory lead in the polls since 91. With all the shit they're putting through they need to be challenged and it's not happening atm.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 08:04:25 pm by Jonny-B »

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #197 on: November 21, 2015, 08:53:11 pm »
View on Jeremy Corbyn:
Favourable: 22% (-2)
Unfavourable: 50% (+8)
NET: -28
(via ComRes / 18 - 20 Nov)

"I trust Jeremy Corbyn to keep me and my family safe":
Agree: 17%
Disagree: 58%
(via ComRes / 18 - 20 Nov)

Labour will get trounced in the next election if they dont get rid of Corbyn.  The man along with his deputy and co are clueless.

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #198 on: November 21, 2015, 09:53:15 pm »
They will not be trounced at the next election still over 4 years to go.

People will soon see though all the bullshit in the press.

grow some balls people can't believe people are falling for the media smears.

Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Austerity - For and Against
« Reply #199 on: November 21, 2015, 09:56:47 pm »
They will not be trounced at the next election still over 4 years to go.

People will soon see though all the bullshit in the press.

grow some balls people can't believe people are falling for the media smears.


Trouble is..... Will people suddenly stop believing in media smears? 

Still, the local elections in a couple of years are the real tester
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W