Author Topic: Sunderland  (Read 181706 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #400 on: October 29, 2016, 02:39:18 pm »
Not just Moyes fault this mess, to be honest not his fault at all. Sunderland have an awful squad with bang average players. They will go down.

absolute shite to suggest it's not his fault at all.

did you notice how much momentum they had at the end of last season under allardyce? similar to leicester under pearson, right? scraping survival with a great run at the end of the season.

did you see leicester's new manager start the next season with 2 points after 9 games?

moyes should spend more time trying to learn new things, rather than treating people and the press like they're idiots. since pretty much day one he's desperately trying to pull the wool over their eyes and manage their expectations. imagine david moyes was your boss - would you be motivated?

he's now referring to himself in the third person and describing himself as a winner. he's spent - needs some time out and to drop down to preston (at best) or league 1
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 02:41:11 pm by Classycara »

Offline Hoenheim

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #401 on: October 29, 2016, 02:40:07 pm »
They need a season in the Championship with a massive clearout in the summer, they've been really bad for years now, riding their luck to stay up in the past few seasons.
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #402 on: October 29, 2016, 02:40:35 pm »
My only regret with how shit they are is that Moyes probably won't last until we get to play them. They're complete and utter shit. No tactics, no plan, nothing.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #403 on: October 29, 2016, 02:40:52 pm »
Honestly mate,  they may be worse than Derby 07/08. Can't remember constantly seeing a team unable to exchange more than two passes or less threatening.
that Derby team had the excuse of getting promoted about 2 years early, these lot have been in the prem for what, 10 years straight?

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #404 on: October 29, 2016, 02:42:57 pm »
absolute shite to suggest it's not his fault at all.

did you notice how much momentum they had at the end of last season under allardyce? similar to leicester under pearson, right? scraping survival with a great run at the end of the season.

did you see leicester's new manager start the next season with 2 points after 9 games?

moyes should spend more time trying to learn new things, rather than treating people and the press like they're idiots. since pretty much day one he's desperately trying to pull the wool over their eyes and manage their expectations. imagine david moyes was your boss - would you be motivated?
the difference between Sunderland and Leicester the year before was Leicester were playing generally quite well but kept making daft individual mistakes until that last 10 or so games, Sunderland were just shite and managed to get two potentially tough homes at the end (Chelsea, shite) where their opponents were on the beach

Offline classycarra

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #405 on: October 29, 2016, 02:43:04 pm »
that Derby team had the excuse of getting promoted about 2 years early, these lot have been in the prem for what, 10 years straight?

and picked managers absolutely terribly. then backed each of them with plenty of money, wihch has often gone on dross and 'safe bets' like overpriced english yard dogs and managers' former players.

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #406 on: October 29, 2016, 02:43:31 pm »
They need a season in the Championship with a massive clearout in the summer, they've been really bad for years now, riding their luck to stay up in the past few seasons.
I think they'll struggle at Championship level
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline tommy LFC

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #407 on: October 29, 2016, 02:46:33 pm »
The United failure has completley ruined Moyes, hasn't it?

I hope Sunderland go down, a squad full of old, lazy players with no ambition. Remind me a bit of Villa last year.
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Offline The North Bank

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #408 on: October 29, 2016, 02:47:35 pm »
Im surprised they managed to get 2 draws with this team, Moysie should get manager of the month for that.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #409 on: October 29, 2016, 02:47:58 pm »
the difference between Sunderland and Leicester the year before was Leicester were playing generally quite well but kept making daft individual mistakes until that last 10 or so games, Sunderland were just shite and managed to get two potentially tough homes at the end (Chelsea, shite) where their opponents were on the beach

the league table, starting at 1st jan, would have ended with sunderland in 11th. and an improved squad including kone, kazri and kirchoff. they had plenty to build on.

it's not all been individual mistakes this season, it's systematic issues with negative desperate tactics, designed to (at absolute best) protect a point.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #410 on: October 29, 2016, 03:13:30 pm »
They need a season in the Championship with a massive clearout in the summer, they've been really bad for years now, riding their luck to stay up in the past few seasons.

Been saying for this for years. They need a massive rethink about what their long-term aim is and a complete cultural shift.

Offline Statto Red

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #411 on: October 29, 2016, 03:19:30 pm »
They're this seasons Villa, dreadful squad & awful manager, when they go down it'll be a long time before they come back up.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #412 on: October 29, 2016, 03:22:30 pm »
They're this seasons Villa, dreadful squad & awful manager, when they go down it'll be a long time before they come back up.

Fancy Villa to come up before these. At least they have a decent manager for their level in Fathead.
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Offline Statto Red

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #413 on: October 29, 2016, 03:24:30 pm »
Fancy Villa to come up before these. At least they have a decent manager for their level in Fathead.

Yep.

Looking at the fixtures, they're that bad it'll be lucky if Sunderland get another point before Christmas yet alone win.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #414 on: October 29, 2016, 03:27:15 pm »
Yep.

Looking at the fixtures, they're that bad it'll be lucky if Sunderland get another point before Christmas yet alone win.

How many ppoints did that Derby side get? Six wasn't it?

Sunderland will do well to get 20 points this season!!

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #415 on: October 29, 2016, 03:31:57 pm »
How many ppoints did that Derby side get? Six wasn't it?

Sunderland will do well to get 20 points this season!!

They had six in their first 10 games (went down with eleven). 2016-17 are officially the worst side in PL history after 10 games.
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Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #416 on: October 29, 2016, 07:27:28 pm »
[...] officially the worst side in PL history after 10 games.

Just heard that.

*insert .gif of struggling to hold back maniacal laughter*
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #417 on: October 29, 2016, 07:47:07 pm »
wonder if Moyes ever regrets leaving Everton

Offline rowan_d

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #418 on: October 29, 2016, 07:56:17 pm »
Yeah, I was wrong about them needing a home gimme

There's no such thing for them. Expect even Hull would come away from the SoL with at least a point.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #419 on: October 29, 2016, 07:59:03 pm »
wonder if Moyes ever regrets leaving Everton
they don't

Offline Cu Chulainn

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #420 on: October 29, 2016, 10:47:23 pm »
Are they even worse than Villa were last season?

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #421 on: October 30, 2016, 01:16:02 am »
Are they even worse than Villa were last season?

Yes.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #422 on: October 30, 2016, 04:06:55 am »
they don't

I am sure they kinda do as well, although very few will admit it. They were pretty dull under him but they were consistently finishing between 5th -8th most season. Since he has left they look like a worse side.  They have been overtaken by likes of Southampton, Leicester etc and fallen well behind us and spurs.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #423 on: October 30, 2016, 07:58:21 am »
I still hope Moyes is with Sunderland when we play them.

I miss those days when Liverpool twatting aside some shite team was the final nail for the opposition manager. It occurred quite frequently under Rafa and for a bit under Rodgers.



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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #424 on: October 30, 2016, 08:01:11 am »
Once they go down, do you think Premier League clubs will raiding their side I doubt it.

Wouldn't be surprised, too see them down in League 1 soon.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 12:02:11 pm by Eleven »

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #425 on: October 30, 2016, 08:09:52 am »
Question for you's

If these idiots sacked Moyes and Rafa walked out on Newcastle and went to the Stad de Shite, could Rafa get this team of useless c*nts playing?

What I mean is, is it down to the Players or the Manager?

Offline Nick110581

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #426 on: October 30, 2016, 08:13:11 am »
Question for you's

If these idiots sacked Moyes and Rafa walked out on Newcastle and went to the Stad de Shite, could Rafa get this team of useless c*nts playing?

What I mean is, is it down to the Players or the Manager?

I think it's a combo of both but the set up yesterday was embarrassing.

No snap or intensity to their play.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #427 on: October 30, 2016, 08:22:28 am »
No doubt Rafa would get them better organised and add more structure and control to their game. At best, they'd be able to string a few more passes together and look more cohesive. I have my doubts that he could get them scoring a lot of goals, but that's mostly down to the utter dross they have in midfield and attack.

There's a lot of really bad players in this Sunderland team. And even behind that there doesn't even seem to be any decent youth players coming through. Eventually, several years' worth of bad decisions will catch up and even a very good manager like Rafa could only do so much.

Offline Yiannis

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #428 on: October 30, 2016, 09:22:51 am »
By far the the worst team the world has ever seen.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #429 on: October 30, 2016, 11:12:01 am »
Question for you's

If these idiots sacked Moyes and Rafa walked out on Newcastle and went to the Stad de Shite, could Rafa get this team of useless c*nts playing?

What I mean is, is it down to the Players or the Manager?

it's the manager.

with respect, look at what rafa did with newcastles terrible and unbalanced squad last season - he changed the way they played, gave people faith that the change was worth the initial struggles for a first win, and now his methods have been implemented and the squad is far more balanced.

what are moyes's methods? run a lot, everyone. run under that bus so i can throw you under it. he's too proud, arrogant and desperate to ever take responsibility for his mistakes. that doesn't build trust or motivation amongst players

Offline The North Bank

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #430 on: October 30, 2016, 11:16:09 am »
Moyes said after the game yesterday that the 4-1 scoreline was harsh..... And that no Sunderland fan can question the attitude of the players yesterday because they gave it everything ...

He's off his head.


Offline classycarra

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #431 on: October 30, 2016, 11:17:03 am »
Moyes said after the game yesterday that the 4-1 scoreline was harsh..... And that no Sunderland fan can question the attitude of the players yesterday because they gave it everything ...

He's off his head.



he tries to manage the media so transparently. he thinks he's the smartest man in the room, but really he's a bit simple and has an inferiority complex

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #432 on: October 30, 2016, 11:42:31 am »
Do you think he'll get the boot before Mourinho??

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #433 on: October 30, 2016, 11:57:32 am »
Do you think he'll get the boot before Mourinho??

Definitely. Don't see the Mancs sacking Shitcoat anytime soon unless he goes completely bonkers running onto the pitch to punching the ref or something like that...

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #434 on: October 30, 2016, 12:06:55 pm »
They had six in their first 10 games (went down with eleven). 2016-17 are officially the worst side in PL history after 10 games.
joint worst at the moment, Man City also got 2 points from their first 10 games in 1995-96
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #435 on: October 30, 2016, 12:09:57 pm »
Moyes is a footballing dinosaur the same as BigSam and Hodgson,those coaches inspired in the 70's and 80's by Charles Hughes coaching manual of being obsessed  with keeping shape and having teams in regimented rigid formations,lack of possession football and being aerially direct.

Charles Hughes influence still looms large decades after his tenure at the FA that Hodgson and Big Sam were England managers in the 21st century, there are still many coaches and managers in the game today from that generation who are tainted with that failed philosophy in the game sadly with the likes of Warnock Pulis etc still working and keeping the Charles Hughes way of football alive in the English game. ::)
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #436 on: October 30, 2016, 12:39:31 pm »
I think they'll struggle at Championship level

Nah. Just need to clear the shite and get a decent manager in. Villa under Bruce have changed massively in the few games he's been manager.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #437 on: October 30, 2016, 12:42:18 pm »
Nah. Just need to clear the shite and get a decent manager in. Villa under Bruce have changed massively in the few games he's been manager.

Aston Villa had some decent players though, even if they were absolutely useless last season. A new owner put a lot of money into getting the likes of McCormack and Kodjia too. Sunderland don't have any assets they can sell to rebuild the squad, their team is full of absolutely terrible footballers.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #438 on: October 30, 2016, 04:40:05 pm »
absolute shite to suggest it's not his fault at all.



I don't agree with that. For starters, Leicester had won the Championship to earn promotion. Their players had a basic idea of what was necessary to win. They also had a very favourable second half of the season and were largely in the funk they were in the first half, because of a mixture of errors and Pearson's mismanagement. In Ranieri, they appointed a manager, who despite his reputation for tinkering, opted to do nothing major, other than a few significant tweaks, such as moving Vardy upfront, rather than on the flanks. He largely kept Leicester to a set style of playing and identity that over the course of the season reaped dividends.

Sunderland's situation is far different. They are the classic "bigger" club who goes down, due to years of mismanagement (see: Villa, Newcastle, West Ham for recent examples. Sunderland have no set identity or long-term plan. Since 2010/2011, when they finished 10th with 47 points, they've been in decline almost every year.

2010/11 - 10th (47 points)
2011/12 - 13th (45 points)
2012/13 - 17th (38 points)
2013/14 - 14th (38 points)
2014/15 - 16th (38 points)
2015/16 - 17th (39 points)

In that spell, they've had 7 different permanent managers, signed 91 players, only reached 40+ points twice, had three different CEOs and two Directors of Football. Their recruitment, player development and scouting is awful and has been for years. They don't develop their own players, despite the North East being a fertile area for bringing in decent PL level players at Newcastle and Middlesborough in recent years. Since 2010/11, only three of their homegrown players have played five or more PL games: Henderson, Colback and Pickford. During that same spell, they've had 7 former Man Utd youth players on their team. They've also only made a profit on at least nine players that they have sold during that spell.

The Secret Footballer has noted that within the game it is well-known that Sunderland have a drinking culture at the club.  Various former Sunderland managers ranging from Poyet to Di Canio to Advocaat have suggested that there is something wrong at the club, ranging from the players to the recruitment policy. Given what Sunderland have at their disposal (large, newish ground; sizeable attendances; decent amount of annual spending), they should be doing better than fighting off relegation each year. I think part of their problem is there is no identity, no vision, no accountability. The Adam Johnson case being the most extreme example of the latter.

If you aren't going to develop your own players, you better have some fixed type of playing identity to simplify recruitment. Swansea for the most part were like this until recently, but as soon as they strayed from their style of players, they have begun to slip and the cracks in their recruitment have become more apparent. Southampton have a sizeable turnover of players and managers each year, but they make it work. They develop their own players. They recruit managers and playing staff based on a certain style of play. They make sizeable profits on many of their signings with a ready made replacement. Sunderland don't do any of those things. They have had a hodge podge recruitment strategy with players left over from several different managers and directors of football. The slapdash, throw shit at the wall approach was best typified during Roberto Fanti's short-lived reign as DoF, with Duncan Watmore being the only permanent signing left, although they later resigned Borini permanently.

Sunderland have lucked out the past couple of seasons. When they've needed wins later in the season, they've improbably got them. Allardyce's signings of Kone, Kirchoff and Khazri kept them up last season. The season prior, they needed a striker and fortunately for them Defoe has turned into their only goal outlet; yet he's signed to a ridiculous deal that will pay him £80k a week until he's 36 (he's now incidentally signed to a deal that keeps him there until he's nearly 37). This is the same side that gave the massively injury-prone, soon to be 32 year old Wes Brown a four year deal not too long ago. But then again, Sunderland have tended to rely on these types of signings, because they either don't have the patience or the resources (or a combination of both) to develop younger players.

This summer was just another typical chapter in Sunderland's book of how not to run a PL club. Hesitating over signings and transfer policy mid-summer, only for Allardyce to leave and for Ellis Short to get his dream manager David Moyes take over. And yet, a club with a 34 year old Defoe and a hit-and-miss Borini as their only true forwards, didn't bother to sign another forward early on to lessen the burden on Defoe. Instead, they ended up taking Victor Anichebe on a free, after he was released by West Brom. The same Victor Anichebe who had scored six PL goals in 55 games for West Brom. They needed a new back-up keeper after letting Steve Harper go in the summer. Instead of making it a top priority, they dithered about, had Mannone get injured, which resulted in Pickford having to play, culminating with Sunderland pleading with FIFA after deadline day  to allow them to sign Mika on loan from Boavista. And then there are the other two key summer signings: Papa Djilobodji and Didier N'Dong.

They paid Chelsea £8m for Papa Djilobodji, who had cost them £2.7m and had been poor with a dreadful Werder Bremen side on loan. According to Lorient they paid €20m for N'Dong, who couldn't believe their luck that someone was willing to pay them that much. Now bare in mind, they could have paid Rubin Kazan £8.5m to sign Yann M'Vila early, rather than waiting until January when they could get him on a free. That would be the same M'Vila, who had already played for Sunderland and was desperate to sign for them, to the point that he sat in a lounge at Heathrow waiting for the conclusion of a deal, only for them to later rebuff his calls.

As others have said, they are in a situation similar to Villa, in that they have no real saleable assets, due to years of transfer mismanagement and a penchant for loans. If you look at the players, they let go this summer, that included Giaccherini, who they sold for around £2m despite having a decent Euros to a team that just pocketed a massive fee for Gonzalo Higuain. Of the players they sold or released, this summer, they had originally cost them collectively an estimated £37m and were sold for around £10m. That's a difference of around £27m, the bulk of which goes to releasing former £12m signing Steven Fletcher on a free. The only one of those they likely made any money on was Jordi Gomez, who they signed on a free and sold for £500,000. You cannot be a team on Sunderland's resources and be making collective losses like that every season.

Everton were willing to pay a significant sum for Kone in the summer. I doubt they or anyone would else would anywhere near the £20m mooted fee now. Someone would probably buy Kirchhoff and Van Aanholt, maybe Defoe on a shorter deal or Pickford, if he wanted out. People have argued that Sunderland is a less desirable place for players, which results in higher wages being offered to lesser players. But is it any worse than Swansea, Southampton or Middlesborough? The latter have managed to bring in Victor Valdes, who no matter what you think of him at this stage of his career, is still a former CL and World Cup winner, who could have easily opted to spend his remaining days playing in the MLS or the Middle East.

I think what really stops players from going there is that they are a basket case of a club. They should be planning for relegation now. Invest more time and effort in bringing through younger players and dumping the players who won't help them in the Championship.  And rather than trying to sign some fanciful player in January, they should be looking at who will get them back in the PL at a first attempt, which at a glance of the current squad, won't be happening. This has been a long-time coming. Sunderland would be in denial, if they think otherwise. This isn't just about Moyes, it runs deeper than that. This is what happens when you chronically mismanage a team at all levels. Moyes has clearly realized early on that there is something systemically wrong there. But then again he wasn't the right choice, principally because the last time he was in a genuine relegation scrap with Everton and having to pluck bargains out of the Championship was well over a decade ago. But their current situation isn't all down to him. They've had wake-up calls and reprieves, but they haven't opted to change the culture of that team from top to bottom. They very well might have to now.

Offline jamieredders

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #439 on: October 30, 2016, 04:52:42 pm »
Great read.  Thanks
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