Topic: Round table: Firmino the next piece in the puzzle

[spider-neil]

I can't remember which footballer said it but the quote was (paraphrasing) 'great players know when to touch the ball and when not to touch the ball'. Firmino strikes me as a player who knows when to run with the ball and when to simply lay it off. Sounds simply but when you see phases of our of play and what a awful lot of our players do when in possession of the ball, it clearly isn't simple.

[rickardinho1]

Interesting to see who misses out, out of Lallano, Firmino, Coutinho and Milner?! Id leave Coutinho out on current form!

Klopp said in his post-match presser that he wanted to sub Firmino off earlier but Kolo's injury prevented him from doing that. The intention was clearly for Firmino not to play 90mins but given that he did I think he's ruled out of starting vs Chelsea. Should be an option from the bench however.

Long-term I think Firmino is going to take Milner's spot in the front 3 in our best XI, but of course there will probably be rotation either way depending on opponents.

[clinical]

Probably obvious but he needs better players around him to be on the same wavelength.

Him and Sturridge would be a great forward pair.


Still him and Coutinho need pace around them to be most effective.


I think firmino needs to play centre. Does mean coutinho moves left but he's better there than firmino is

if we go to his narrow 4-2-3-1

new player(with pace)   Firmino    Coutinho
                           Benteke/Sturridge

Would like to see that given a go             

[Red Beret]

Worth remembering this guy has played 260 mins of league football for us so far, the equivalent of four full games, and most of it off the subs bench. When he gets settled in properly and some of our regular players return he's gonna be an absolute monster.

That's less than 3 full games isn't it?

3x90mins =270?

#pedantic 

[spider-neil]

Probably obvious but he needs better players around him to be on the same wavelength.

Him and Sturridge would be a great forward pair.


Still him and Coutinho need pace around them to be most effective.


I think firmino needs to play centre. Does mean coutinho moves left but he's better there than firmino is

if we go to his narrow 4-2-3-1

new player(with pace)   Firmino    Coutinho
                           Benteke/Sturridge

Would like to see that given a go             

In a 4-2-3-1, Coutinho should be in the '2'.
I don't think Coutinho has enough goals in him to justify being in the '3'.
Firmino should be central and behind the striker.

[Carlito Roberto]

I know Klopp isn’t known for using it, but given the make up of the squad I wonder if he’d be tempted to give the narrow 4-4-2 diamond a crack when everyone’s fit.

              Lucas
Henderson   Coutinho
            Firmino
   Benteke    Sturridge 

[thejbs]

He was a level above everyone on the pitch last night. I think he'll be incredible for us if he stays fit.

[clinical]

In a 4-2-3-1, Coutinho should be in the '2'.
I don't think Coutinho has enough goals in him to justify being in the '3'.
Firmino should be central and behind the striker.

You think Coutinho should play in front of the back 4?

 Interested to know why you think this? That would be a bold move.

[clinical]

I know Klopp isn’t known for using it, but given the make up of the squad I wonder if he’d be tempted to give the narrow 4-4-2 diamond a crack when everyone’s fit.

              Lucas
Henderson   Coutinho
            Firmino
   Benteke    Sturridge

Yeah that would be good

[spider-neil]

You think Coutinho should play in front of the back 4?

 Interested to know why you think this? That would be a bold move.

I think one of the two in front of the defence should be a play maker who dictates the tempo of the game, a Modric type of player.
The three behind the striker should all be goal scorers capable of getting into double figures in the league.
Protecting the defence should happen front to back.

[Lfsea]

There was a particular moment last night which really got my trousers in a palarver. Just after the goal, Lovren absolutely smacked it to him along the ground. Ordinarily that would bounce up or away from the receiving player, but in one glorious, syrupy movement Bob got the ball under control, pirouetted on his heel, evaded his marker got the pass away to - I think Tex - and peeled off to find space for himself to possibly receive a pass back. Was mesmerising.

With all the injuries, he's basically at the end of his pre-season relative to the time he's had on the pitch since he's been here. Only going to get better from here on in.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

I saw Carragher say that was the first sign we had seen glimpses of his quality.

I think he has shown it on a couple of other occasions.

[clinical]

I think one of the two in front of the defence should be a play maker who dictates the tempo of the game, a Modric type of player.
The three behind the striker should all be goal scorers capable of getting into double figures in the league.
Protecting the defence should happen front to back.

Agree but I'd rather someone who can defend too. Like a Neves/Gundogan

[AnfieldRD19]

Firmino strikes me as a player who knows when to run with the ball and when to simply lay it off.

I feel like Origi is the exact opporsite

[killer-heels]

He has always shown flashes of quality in his time here but needed to and will continue to have to impose himself on games. I also hope that Neil Ashton article questioning his price is his own opinion and not Rodgers' opinion.

[PIPA23]

I know Klopp isn’t known for using it, but given the make up of the squad I wonder if he’d be tempted to give the narrow 4-4-2 diamond a crack when everyone’s fit.

              Lucas
Henderson   Coutinho
            Firmino
   Benteke    Sturridge 

with Sturridge injured all the time, i think long term we need to go for :

Mignolet (?)

Clyne --- NEW CB ---- Sakho --- Moreno

Lucas

Henderson ------ NEW CM

Coutinho ----- Firmino

Benteke

we need a marqee signing in the bold areas...

(Subotic, Gudogan, Bender)

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

with Sturridge injured all the time, i think long term we need to go for :

Mignolet (?)

Clyne --- NEW CB ---- Sakho --- Moreno

Lucas

Henderson ------ NEW CM

Coutinho ----- Firmino

Benteke

I'd rather Coutinho deeper as the CM alongside Henderson and buy another match winner, who can get more goals and assists than Coutinho offers.

That's if we play that formation.

[ShayGuevara]

I think its also very hard to man mark a player who constantly recycles the ball and doesn't hold onto it for long at all.

I'd say in full flow, Firmino is a man markers nightmare.

Coutinho is also. Barry did a really effecftive job a few weeks ago though. Last season Chelsea got tight to him through Matic and Fabergas in the cup but he still played a blinder so I do think the best way to stop him is man marking like Barry did in the recent derby.

With the two of them in the AM positions it'll take less pressure off Coutinho to be Our playmaker and makes it harder for sides to nulify our threat through man marking Coutinho. I think both will cause Chelsea some real problems and most other sides in the league for that matter.

Our overreliance on Coutinho as an attacking outlet without Gerrard, Suarez and Sterling has been a real issue for us of late. Lallana needs to do more, Moreno is offering us something on the left finally but Firmino returning and of course the direct ball to Benteke will be a great help to us. I'm looking forward to seeing Milner and Clyne linking up also, they've shown signs of an understanding but not shown the quality often enough. Milners cross for the Benteke goal last weekend being on exception, more of that needed though.

[Lemieux]

 In the game against bournemouth he showed that he is capable of keeping it simple yet being very effective and it feels like he just floats around the pitch but gets into dangerous positions without working too hard.  His finish was woeful though.  Very enjoyable player to watch, makes things look easier than they are.  Coutinho and Lallana always look like they are working extremely hard to be effective and take too many touches on the ball I think it shows a lack of intelligence on what is effective and what isn't. 

[killer-heels]

Coutinho is also. Barry did a really effecftive job a few weeks ago though. Last season Chelsea got tight to him through Matic and Fabergas in the cup but he still played a blinder so I do think the best way to stop him is man marking like Barry did in the recent derby.

With the two of them in the AM positions it'll take less pressure off Coutinho to be Our playmaker and makes it harder for sides to nulify our threat through man marking Coutinho. I think both will cause Chelsea some real problems and most other sides in the league for that matter.

Our overreliance on Coutinho as an attacking outlet without Gerrard, Suarez and Sterling has been a real issue for us of late. Lallana needs to do more, Moreno is offering us something on the left finally but Firmino returning and of course the direct ball to Benteke will be a great help to us. I'm looking forward to seeing Milner and Clyne linking up also, they've shown signs of an understanding but not shown the quality often enough. Milners cross for the Benteke goal last weekend being on exception, more of that needed though.

Coutinho needs to release the ball quicker. It may be easy to say that where we are sitting but i wish he would be more like Silva who uses short passes as a method to dictate the play high up the field. Coutinho holds onto it to long and dare i say forces it too much.

[Schmidt]

I think Coutinho is fine as part of an attacking midfield three, plenty of teams have a player that high up the pitch who doesn't necessarily contribute a lot of goals. His ability to find space and then beat a man so deftly allow us to very quickly switch from defending to attacking, what we need is quality players around Coutinho who complement what he offers. Firmino looks like a good fit in that #10 role, and Benteke and Sturridge offer the quality up top, we just need someone on the right who has pace, goals and movement to his game, which admittedly will probably be quite a pricey purchase.

Coutinho right now just looks like a player who needs a little weight taking off his shoulders, something Firmino and Benteke can offer when they're both sharp.

[clinical]

with Sturridge injured all the time, i think long term we need to go for :

Mignolet (?)

Clyne --- NEW CB ---- Sakho --- Moreno

Lucas

Henderson ------ NEW CM

Coutinho ----- Firmino

Benteke

we need a marqee signing in the bold areas...

(Subotic, Gudogan, Bender)

No pace. So hope not

That's how Rodgers played. Just didn't work. Firmino and coutinho behind benteke just doesn't work imo.

[BigAl24]

Best game last night, he was class.

[Rush 82]

There was a particular moment last night which really got my trousers in a palarver. Just after the goal, Lovren absolutely smacked it to him along the ground. Ordinarily that would bounce up or away from the receiving player, but in one glorious, syrupy movement Bob got the ball under control, pirouetted on his heel, evaded his marker got the pass away to - I think Tex - and peeled off to find space for himself to possibly receive a pass back. Was mesmerising.

With all the injuries, he's basically at the end of his pre-season relative to the time he's had on the pitch since he's been here. Only going to get better from here on in.

I remember going "whoah! htf did he do that" - immense control

[Chalky Boots]

Agree but I'd rather someone who can defend too. Like a Neves/Gundogan

For perspective mind Gundogan wasn't known for his defensive work prior to joining Dortmund. I think we either make the change now or we see another club do it years down the line and benefit from it. Maybe it's only something for certain games at the moment but I do agree with a few others that I don't feel he gets enough goals for an inverted player in the attacking midfield trident.

Certainly he's someone who could help get Firmino away during transition's is from deep.

[anil_vedala]

You think Coutinho should play in front of the back 4?

 Interested to know why you think this? That would be a bold move.

Position of a player is not decided by number of goals he scores.If that is the case, Skrtel should play in place of Lucas and Lucas in back four.

[BigAl24]

Position of a player is not decided by number of goals he scores.If that is the case, Skrtel should play in place of Lucas and Lucas in back four.

I don't really know what this means.

[lionel_messias]

I'm going to say it: Roberto Firmino will be our most important player this season.

[BigAl24]

I'm going to say it: Roberto Firmino will be our most important player this season.

Agree.

[Coolie High]

Chelsea will inevitably man mark Coutinho with Matic, for that reason I think Firmino would be of more value linking the play in midfield as we suffer when Coutinho is man marked.

That rarely works, Coutinho torments Matic and Fabregas normally, at least in last three or so appearances.

[exiledintheUSA]

I'm going to say it: Roberto Firmino will be our most important player this season.

Aye.  Can sense goals in him, hopefully he opens his account on the weekend.

[redmark]

In a 4-2-3-1, Coutinho should be in the '2'.
I don't think Coutinho has enough goals in him to justify being in the '3'.
Firmino should be central and behind the striker.

I can't see Coutinho in a Klopp midfield two. Even in the 4321 he's preferred powerful, energetic players like Milner and Can beside the protection of Lucas; and Coutinho's been in an advanced two where his goals (or lack of them) are even more critical than they would be in an advanced three.

If and when the first team switches to last night's 4231, which is certainly unlikely to be at Stamford Bridge, the signs are that that should help Coutinho - but increasingly the left side of the three would be the only one in which he's first choice, I think. Having Firmino in the centre should reduce the dependence on Coutinho to create and score. And he'll need to sharpen up a bit even then.

[Halcyon Lissome]

Rewatching his highlights, they were even better than I remember. Lovely awareness and quick play. Despite having all the tricks in his locker, he plays a clean and simple one-two touch game when he can. He had several one-touch layoffs that put us in dangerous positions. Reminds me a LOT of Suarez.

[clinical]

Position of a player is not decided by number of goals he scores.If that is the case, Skrtel should play in place of Lucas and Lucas in back four.

What?

I'm clearly talking about his defensive play

[Coolie High]

Rewatching his highlights, they were even better than I remember. Lovely awareness and quick play. Despite having all the tricks in his locker, he plays a clean and simple one-two touch game when he can. He had several one-touch layoffs that put us in dangerous positions. Reminds me a LOT of Suarez.

Agree looked intelligent as well as technically proficient.

[redmark]

Reminds me a LOT of Suarez.

I must admit I don't get that comparison at all, I think he's a completely different style of player. Less individualistic, more collaborative, less energetic, more calculated, less direct, more creative.

[RyanBabel19]

Chelsea will inevitably man mark Coutinho with Matic, for that reason I think Firmino would be of more value linking the play in midfield as we suffer when Coutinho is man marked.

Isn't Matic banned or was the Stoke game the one he was banned for ?

[Halcyon Lissome]

I must admit I don't get that comparison at all, I think he's a completely different style of player. Less individualistic, more collaborative, less energetic, more calculated, less direct, more creative.

I think Suarez gets a bad rap for his team play because people usually associate a player that scores ridiculous solo goals as an individualist. IMO he is one of the best collaborative players on the planet. What he did for our attack and even what he's done for Barca has taken them up a level.

What I think is similar is that both Firmino and Suarez have no qualms about playing on the edge of creativity. They're always thinking about the nutmeg, the sombrero, or any little advantage they can get - just watch the highlights video and you see how many balls Firmino actually stole. Suarez had a bit more strength and directness to him whereas Firmino looks like he is coasting and isn't looking to dominate the team's attack the way Suarez did even on his first game.

I think the difference is; whereas Suarez might play in a teammate, he will frantically look to get it back to score if he can. Whereas Firmino isn't as concerned with being on the end of the move. Suarez will also chase after the ball like a madman, and it's something obvious to see, whereas Firmino looks more calculated in terms of getting the ball back. But I think they're both high work-rate players off the ball and consistent with their technical abilities on it, even with little space to manoeuvre. Of course, I don't think Firmino will probably ever get to Suarez's level of scoring/assisting but he's a good alternative amongst players of a similar skillset around the world. The best one being Sanchez.

[bam09]

I'm going to say it: Roberto Firmino will be our most important player this season.

Agreed. Wouldn't be surprised to see Klopp try to engineer our attacks around him.

[bigbear]

I think he is our best player.

There I've said it. The one caveat is if Sturridge could stay fit but I think this lad has a better way of mixing his game up than Coutinho and threatens the 'gain line' a little more both with and without the ball.

My kind of player completely.