Topic: The media, earthworms, and a bit of a self-indulgent rant

[Cormack Snr]

sounds a boss night mate  ...although it appears you skipped the beehive?

Went there too, just didn't do much moaning there. The little one by Riley's..

[Mutton Geoff]

It's because of who we are and where we have been that we moan, Blackburn supporters don't expect success. In the same way there is no talk of anyone leaving Everton.

You know as another old supporter even when we were winning stuff we didn't expect to win it we hoped to win it, Success was never the price of support for this club.

Are you sure you were around in the old days because you are a lacking some old style LFC education and as someone said your posts display a tad immature attitude for someone old enough to know better

[Cormack Snr]

Don't know where you were either but we did expect to win everything, it was taken for granted in fact. You might be right about being a little immature though, I was playing football in my back garden with my grandson before the Semi final and in my mind I was saying   If I score this goal we'll beat Villa and go to Wembley , didn't work did it.

[Mutton Geoff]

Don't know where you were either but we did expect to win everything, it was taken for granted in fact. You might be right about being a little immature though, I was playing football in my back garden with my grandson before the Semi final and in my mind I was saying   If I score this goal we'll beat Villa and go to Wembley , didn't work did it.

So where you pissed off when we didn't win everything then? I never met anyone who took winning for granted, i must know different people.

[Solomon Grundy]

So where you pissed off when we didn't win everything then? I never met anyone who took winning for granted, i must know different people.

To be fair, when I was a young kid I used to think to myself if we didn't win the league or the FA Cup the one year, we'd win it the next. In my young mind I thought it was a given. I think that is part of the reason for our downfall. In our arrogance as a club we became slack. While Man Utd were putting things in place on and off the field to ensure their future dominance, we just strutted along thinking because of who we are the success will just continue. Like it was some sort of God given right or something(I think some of us still have the same sense of entitlement). There were also other factors like, Heysel, Hillsborough and Graeme Souness that also contributed to it as well of course.

[keyop]

Great OP and some really good posts.

Some of the negativity on this site over the last few months I wouldn't expect from my worst enemy or an opposing fan. There are some on here who seemingly can't see a positive in anything that happens, and will counter every comment with a polar opposite view.

Some examples have included:

Positive: Our signings are new and need time to settle in. Negative: Our signings are all flops and need to be binned
Positive: Rodgers needs time and has already shown he can challenge for the title. Negative: Rodgers is a fraud and doesn't know what he's doing
Positive: FSG are developing the stadium, the commercial deals and securing our future. Negative: FSG are milking us and don't care about football
Positive: We almost won the title last season playing breathtaking football. Negative: Last season was a fluke and all down to Suarez
Positive: We need to be realistic and we don't have Chelsea's or Man City's resources. Negative: Fans are naive are are accepting mediocrity
Positive: With some decent strikers we would be much better off next season. Negative: We need changes in every area of the club and team.

Neither view is correct, and the truth is somewhere in between. However, what's interesting is that a far greater proportion of the positive posters on here can back up their thoughts and ideas with analysis, grown-up discussion, and some balance. The negative posters invariably present their arguments through sound bites, hyperbole, and grandiose attention-seeking statements and exaggerations that are so far from reality that it makes you wonder whether they have a life outside the internet.

All season these same arguments have been had on virtually every thread, and go round and round until either the thread gets locked or people get bored. The negative posters have a stock collection of arguments that they post continuously to counter any shred of positivity about the club. They are usually one-liners, as many of the negative posters don't have the intelligence or attention span to present any kind of logical argument, rationale, or evidence for their views. The phrase 'swearing demonstrates a lack of vocabulary' couldn't be more apt for some people on here.

But despite all of this, there is one single overriding reason for the negativity this season. Contrast.

The difference between our performances, results, points, mentality, and final position was so markedly different, that many on here have not been able to cope with their disappointment. Whilst most of us have dealt with this season and moved on, many are still pining after Rafa or Suarez, stuck in the 80's, or have seemingly forgotten what happened under H&G, or how we finished 6th, 8th and 7th between 2010/11 and 2012/13.

Dealing with setbacks and disappointment is a sign of maturity, and most of us learn how to do it by the end of our teenage years, and that's what makes us adults.

However, many on here are stuck in an endless pre-pubescent rage, like that character Kevin on Harry Enfield with the short temper. In fact, it's probably what most of them look and act like in real life, because IT'S JUST SO UNFAIR!!

[I-was-watching-it-on-Sky]

Yeah, exactly, JK. I'm not saying everything is rosy in the garden, but a bit of balance wouldn't go amiss. A bit of positivity wouldn't, either.

I realise there's an irony in having a rant and a moan at people having a rant and a moan , but then I'm infinitely more exacerbated by bipolar (and I mean that in the literal sense - one extreme or the other) fans than I am with anything going on with the team.

When you're asking for people to adopt a "...bit of balance..." it seems to ignore human nature. Imagine in pre-history, the tribal group trekking through the wilderness. A wild animal charges, a tree falls in their direction or an avalanche tumbles towards them...

Taking a few moments to pause and make a balanced assessment of the situation and formulating an escape strategy really isn't a good survival technique. A more instant impulsive reaction is the order of the day...RUUUUUUN...and more importantly, run in the direction everyone else is running, that's the survival strategy. If the group changes direction...so do you, just to stay within the group. Once it's all over...? Well, the blind running through the forest must have been the correct response, because the proof is that they survived (you'll recognise the neat post-rationalisation).

These behaviours are hard-wired into the human mind; threats which you can't control require an immediate & unthinking response and it's safer to stay within the mainstream of the group. Just because we're discussing football doesn't mean it isn't triggering this threat mechanism in many people. Just because we're on a social media forum (which is a near perfect environment for immediate & unthinking responses) doesn't mean the tribal group isn't running blindly through the forest. Cue...post-rationalisation. Whatever the outcome, these people who've over reacted with convince themselves that they were right.

You've asked for "...balance..." Another hard-wired human behaviour is for each person the assume that 'they' occupy the the 'balanced" position. On the straight line continuum between extreme optimist and extreme pessimist on any given issue, each individual thinks that 'they' are the dispassionate voice of reason. Your 'pessimist' is thinking that you're the incorrect optimist and viccy vaccy...

Naturally..."...I..." am standing on that balance fulcrum and I dislike the irrepressible optimists with equal intensity as I dislike the eternal pessimists. It's often asked whether the glass is half full or half empty...begging people to be either optimist or pessimist. In fact the glass is full...just with more than one thing. You're asking people to deal with the situation as it really is...history and human nature is against you.

[Il Capitano]

"We are basically fucked." You should get out more and have conversations of fans of clubs who are genuinely "fucked", clubs like Blackburn who were taken down bu useless owners making appalling decisions, or Newcastle fans who forced Pardew out and got given Carver who almost single-handedly managed to relegate them. Clubs like Plymouth or Blackpool who are so badly run the fans don't know if theyll exist next year as they freefall down divisions. We were nearly fucked when FSG bought us, fucked is going out of business or being relegated, not winning trophies for 20 years, never qualifying for Europe.

We don't have the expectations of Newcastle, Blackburn, Plymouth or Blackpool. These clubs have barely a trophy between them, going back sixty years.

We have the expectations of what we are: a legendary institution that is known worldwide for greatness. It is not our MO to make comparisons to other clubs, because they are not Liverpool.

What we are doing at the moment is not good enough.

[SerbianScouser]

What we are doing at the moment is not good enough.

And what we did only 12 months ago was more than good enough, so why not contemplate giving some people a chance to redeem themselves.

[Stussy]

I've always been a very upbeat fella about us.  But unless there's room for people to express misgivings about where we are in the close season things don't get aired.

The close season should be for letting off steam. Come the first game of the season, its all hands on deck, all behind the manager and the players and with positivity.

In the meantime, after a season with some very deep issues including some humiliating, deadening performances that has resulted in changes in our set-up, we should be able to discuss things amongst ourselves, without accusations of being responsible for running the club down, or of being blindly, delusionally optimistic being made.

Get it out of the system. Discuss things. That's what the summer is for. And we're all in the dark about many things, and things can change. We could make some amazing signings and over night the mood can change. That doesn't mean anyone is being soft, its just that there's a long stretch till the season starts. Things change, perspectives change. I like to hear and read all viewpoints, and we have the time and space right now.

Just my two cents. And I love Roald Dahl too.

[Il Capitano]

And what we did only 12 months ago was more than good enough, so why not contemplate giving some people a chance to redeem themselves.

We had a perfect storm of circumstances in 13-14... Everything came together and worked out brilliantly, and Rodgers was rightly lauded for it. I liked many of our signings last season, yet we're continuously getting it wrong on the striker issue and it looks all too clear that we're about to make the same mistake spending £38m on Benteke and Ings. Combine that with the £4m on Lambert, the £7m on Aspas, the £16m on Balotelli and the £10m on Borini and we would have thrown away £75m - the entire Suarez fee - on a series of strikers, none of which patently fit how we play football.

[Max_powers]

We don't have the expectations of Newcastle, Blackburn, Plymouth or Blackpool. These clubs have barely a trophy between them, going back sixty years.

We have the expectations of what we are: a legendary institution that is known worldwide for greatness. It is not our MO to make comparisons to other clubs, because they are not Liverpool.

What we are doing at the moment is not good enough.

We haven't been a legendary institution for past 25 years though. If we start pretending if we finish 6th then we are fucked then that makes us the club with most amount of fuckings in last 25 years. All this negativity and hyperbole is partially responsible of our predicament. We had Rafa as our manager, had the best team in europe, one bad season and many of our fans jumped at his throat. Kenny won us a Trophy and took us too 2 cup finals, many wanted him gone. The doom and gloom supported by the media and some fans was part of the reason why we lost two good managers at LFC and why we aren't a top club.

Expecting trophies and league titles every season just because we are Liverpool will only leave you neagtive, bitter and disappointed. Sometimes the same bitterness and negativity is responsible for driving away great men who could have won us many trophies. 

[Le_Mot_Juste]

Roald Dahl was awesome.

Persistent negativity is, in many cases, a defence mechanism - The idea obviously being 'if i expect shit, i will not be disappointed when i receive shit'. A lot of people who sway more towards the glass half empty general outlook, myself included, allowed themselves to believe we could win the league last year. The way it fell apart, and the way our season this time ended I think has just been a bit too much for both the squad and certain sections of the fan base to deal with.

The one thing that genuinely did annoy me though, was the negativity around Milner's arrival. I can literally not think of any legitimate reasoning for why that was a poor move. Were they expecting Hazard or Iniesta to join? Milner's just such a good option on a free, the negativity around that one really did amaze me.

[Alan_X]

Don't know where you were either but we did expect to win everything, it was taken for granted in fact. You might be right about being a little immature though, I was playing football in my back garden with my grandson before the Semi final and in my mind I was saying   If I score this goal we'll beat Villa and go to Wembley , didn't work did it.

I started watching Liverpool around 70. We didn't 'expect' to win anything and hadn't won anything for years under Shankly. We had incredible success under one manager - Paisley - that no other English club has managed before or since, not even Ferguson in terms of trophies in a short period of time. That's distorted our record massively and if Shanks was manager now he'd be slated by the likes of you for failing to meet the standards you'd come to 'expect'.

You come across like a spoilt kid.

I know Rhi and she's a young passionate Liverpool supporter who has never seen the success that you or I have but I tell you what, she's a better Liverpool supporter than you (or me) by a country mile.

[Crosby Nick]

Crikey Alan, if you started watching us at 70 you're in pretty decent shape for a 110 year old.

[JerseyKloppite]

Crikey Alan, if you started watching us at 70 you're in pretty decent shape for a 110 year old.

[Alf]

I wanted Rodgers to go but now they've decided to keep him. Let's hope next season goes well, it's not going to benefit anyone if we are 12th come January and we get rid. In terms of attracting players & a new manager.

[Rob Dylan]

The blindingly obvious Craig is that the fans are unhappy because FSG continually make basically shit decisions because they haven't got a clue about football and are far too stubborn to admit it and appoint people with football nous. They have been here for four and a half years and if you look at the decisions that have been made and they have made very very few upgrades in footballing terms.

They just lurch from one crisis to another. When you look at it after nearly half a decade they should be heading in the right direction but we are not and you can make a strong case for getting rid of near enough everyone at the Club from Ayre, through the manager, the transfer committee and a large proportion of the playing staff. We don't seem to have a plan and when things go wrong we have a cull and hit reset.

The discontent stems from the fact that we have no identity, no philosophy and no blueprint for the future and are just aimlessly slashing and burning hoping things will change for the better. Without football knowledge how can you make well thought out plans and football decisions.

Even if all that is true (and I don't think it is), I think what the OP is getting at is that all this detailed analysis of how the club is run is just pointless and self-defeating. Why are some people creating so much angst for themselves, as though it's our responsibility to sort it all out - we are posters on an internet forum, we have absolutely no power or influence over all this.

It would be a different story if the club was being run into the ground and it's very existence being threatened, as under Hicks and Gilett - but it's not. So maybe they could find a better CEO than Ayre, maybe they could / should hire a DoF, maybe the backroom staff could be better - but it's certainly not worth all this drama, negativity and hand-wringing. And the thing is, people make sweeping statements about how the club is run when they know hardly anything about what's really going on behind the scenes. Ultimately none of this stuff would be coming out if we were winning football matches. We had FSG, and Ayre, last season and nearly won the League. We all know how quickly things can change in football, and how our preconceptions can be turned on their heads - who expected us to do what we did last year?

Yes we all like to follow the transfer speculation but even that sucks the joy out of something simple like signing a player, because the whole process takes so long you've lost interest by the time we actually do sign them. And it's full of the pointlessness of people moaning, making doom-laden and sweeping statements about the future of the club, based on players we haven't even signed yet. Just utterly pointless.

But as others have said, if you can't enjoy supporting a football club, if it can't be something which gives you hope or joy, an escape from real life - what is the point? This is not international politics, it is not life and death. And we have absolutely no control over the decisions the club makes...so just try to enjoy it.

[Pistolero]

some people are surprised that other people like to moan about football?...do leave off.....bemoaning the state of your football team is, I'd have thought, the default position for many, many...many followers of the game and Im bemused that anyone who's watched footy for any length of time would see it any other way.....

[Fiasco]

Some people just have to moan to stay alive. I can't sit here and pretend to be someone who doesn't moan, the truth is quite the opposite for as much as I'd like to think otherwise. What I will say though is that I have a line that I won't cross. For example, did I want Rodgers out this summer? Yes. Did I call him any names, slag the owners off for not removing him, or call for someone else to take over? No. I respected the decision of the owners and I'll support Rodgers with everything I have next season. It's the same with the signings we make that I don't agree with or think will succeed. Will I think that somebody else should have been signed, or say publicly that I don't think they'll be a success? Yes, but as with Rodgers I'll support them and hope at some point I'll be holding my hands up to say that I was wrong.

I think a lot of it comes down to sheer frustration (although that doesn't excuse a large portion of our fanbase acting like toddlers). In recent transfer windows especially we've been linked with, talked with, had offers accepted for and all-but-signed a number a quality players: Willian, Konoplyanka, Costa, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez and Remy to name a few. We've signed none for one reason or another and the players we've signed instead have been underwhelming or haven't performed as well as expected. To add insult to injury three of those ended up at Chelsea and one at Arsenal although we can't really compete with Chelsea financially it's never easy to see players go to your rivals. In the transfer market we are the nearly men. We have our value and we stick to it, we have our incentivized contracts. What we don't have is the will to change it or make exceptions for exceptional players. It's incredibly hard to watch us do it every year. I'm numb to it now, I really am. But many people still get wrapped up in transfer sagas and when it ends in tears it leaves a scar. Then next time the same thing happens and they want to badly for it to end up better than last time but it doesn't, the cycle continues and the anger builds and it manifests itself in many other ways.

Of course the moaning isn't restricted to transfers. Be it the owners, the new stadium/stand, the pitch, the managers teeth or the fucking mascot. People will moan about anything. Lots of people on this site could win the lottery but then complain that it wasn't a rollover. Are those things restricted to us Liverpool fans or is it a wider problem with modern football? Football in 2015 seems pretty unrecognisable from what it was even a decade ago. Social media plays a big part in that, but that's not just it. With the money involved now owners are less forgiving and have itchy trigger fingers. Managers aren't given time to build projects (or they know themselves they can't afford to). Players too, they have to have everything yesterday. I'm a big fan of the NFL and NBA and as I watch this I'm watching an NBA game. After the first quarter they'll interview both coaches for about 30 seconds. As I sit and wonder what football will be like in a few years or so I'm expecting something similar to happen with our game. "So, Brendan, five minutes gone and Lucas has committed two fouls near his own 18 yard line. Will you be looking to make a change soon?" (Apologies to Lucas, but you get the point).

The more stories I hear about my Dad and his mates going to the game years ago the more I realise that football now is so mind-numbingly different. I liked what Alan said about going to the West Brom game and just enjoying it. Even now no matter what is going on in my life or with work/studies, no matter how stressed I am or worried I am about something I'm always comforted by the fact that Liverpool will be playing. Even now I'm counting down the days until the first pre-season friendly, or further than that until the first pre-season photos come out. It's weird, but that is how it is. Yet as football seems determined to poison itself I wonder how long those feelings will last.

[kcbworth]

I think a lot of it stems from the fact that pretty much as a fan base we think the wrong people have been removed.

99% of 'us' wanted the TC disbanded as such as our main summer 'revamp'. Yet we find ourselves scratching our collective heads at the events of the last 72 hrs.

Even those that are pro/against FSG, pro/against Brendan generally agree that the TC is what's causing us the most angst

I do however agree with what Craig put earlier, there are indeed some people that appear to shift their views in order to have a moan irrespective of what FSG do. All it does though is show them as agenda driven.

Bolded bit is highly debatable. Many of us think that its only come into the limelight by people with a political agenda

[Historical Fool]

No response by Grinch yet? I'm not surprised, he tends to disappear when confronted with sensible analysis.

[Alan_X]

Crikey Alan, if you started watching us at 70 you're in pretty decent shape for a 110 year old.

[TSC]

Bolded bit is highly debatable. Many of us think that its only come into the limelight by people with a political agenda

Nope, the dire transfers tend to do that.  Especially last pre-season when the opportunity was there to purchase the type of cutting edge up front the team needed in accordance to the way it was set up end of 13/14.  Of course Suarez is generally irreplaceable.  But we failed miserably to bring anyone in up top of the requisite quality and movement, and that massively contributed to a disappointing season. 

[SquirrelandGman]

You lot need to realise we are not better than tottenham and you'll enjoy supporting liverpool again.


Sometimes we get into the champions league. Sometimes we win league cups. The more you think about the 70s and 80s the more miserable it is.

As the song goes, let it go.

[jambutty]

Expectations.

They can kill ya.

Expect too much, you'll always be disappointed.

Expect the worst, you're never disappointed and sometimes pleasantly surprised.

I think negative but act positive.

This is LFC, this is footy. 

We'll never be THE dominant force in footy as we were.  No one will.  the field is too crowded.

We were lucky to have the brains, personnel and money to pluck the best players in Scotland which made us a dynasty in our pomp.

But the best players don't come from Scotland anymore.


Every year is a new challenge.

My expectations are low, my optimism is up.

We have the most young English talent in the Prem.  We have a manager who's feet are to the fire and and who's management team desperately want him to succeed under their formula.

Find a way to enjoy (I revel) in our owners' 'game plan'.  Give them a shot at doing things the way they think can succed for our type of Club in this kind of market.  IMO, we'll never find better owners.  Trust me.  Fuck them off and we'll regret it.

I think things look fairly rosy, not in the short term, but these lads aren't in it for the short term.

Then again, my view just may be my red tinted specs.

[exiledinyorkshire]

I think with the appalling mess that was last season, it's completely justified to be negative at the current state the club is in. Watching Suarez's clinical finish yesterday to win the Champions League, and then looking at the complete dross we chose to replace him with, and the complete dross we're looking at now in Benteke and Ings... It doesn't bear thinking about and there's frankly nothing positive to take from the situation. None of it is good enough for Liverpool.

even here. Even in a thread where this kind of post is being ridiculed, even here you cant hold it in?

I may have been Woooshed massively, but bloody hell turn it in mate.

Great thread. Its really tiresome wading through the negativity at times. I saw posters suggesting that you wouldn't want Brendan in the trenches with you after Mike Marsh didn't have his contract renewed and Pascoe was dismissed. No attempt to even consider that we didn't know why they had been sacked. No debate about where it may see the direction of the club going, just a snide dig about how it had confirmed what they always knew "Rodgers is a shithouse".

And it was even worse in the run in last year, at a truly wonderful period in my recent Liverpool memory there were those that still saw it as being shit.

Don't get it. I'm looking forward to another title tint next year myself, and i'll keep the faith until its gone, and then i'll do something else to take my mind off it until it starts again.

[carling]

It's all about expectations.  When they're too high and aren't met, it breeds a lot of negativity.  I think that will change a lot now.

As an example, how many seasons in recent years have we thought we would finish above Arsenal and in the champs league places?  A lot of people have almost taken it for granted at times.  Me included.  Then when it starts to slip it's all doom and gloom.  Everyone and everything starts being blamed.

I just can't see that happening next season.  People will go in not expecting to mount a realistic challenge to top 4.  When you expect to finish 6th and that's what's happening, it's quite easy to talk about the positives.  When you expect to finish 3rd and finish 6th, that's when people start talking like it's the end of the world.

[audioedge]

From 1999 to 2009 we finished outside of the top 4 twice (and got in CL anyway due to winning it one of the times). Since 2009 we have finished in the top 4 once. FSG have done a great job in lowering expectations.

[exiledinyorkshire]

Sakho's like going out with Miss world who has just won Master chef (Hypia) and then getting dumped and meeting a women in The Grafton who's got three kids.

Ha ha.

she would be thrilled to get you mate.

ha ha.

[Crosby Nick]

From 1999 to 2009 we finished outside of the top 4 twice (and got in CL anyway due to winning it one of the times). Since 2009 we have finished in the top 4 once. FSG have done a great job in lowering expectations.

FSG? Or City and Chelsea?

[CraigDS]

From 1999 to 2009 we finished outside of the top 4 twice (and got in CL anyway due to winning it one of the times). Since 2009 we have finished in the top 4 once. FSG have done a great job in lowering expectations.

Yeah, having owners who sold the family silver to cover their loan costs can do that to you. As can the emergence of yet another oil funded club and a club which had the foresight to build a new ground back in the early 00's.

[jambutty]

From 1999 to 2009 we finished outside of the top 4 twice (and got in CL anyway due to winning it one of the times). Since 2009 we have finished in the top 4 once. FSG have done a great job in lowering expectations.

Since the 2012 season, we've finished 2nd every other year.

[kcbworth]

Since the 2012 season, we've finished 2nd every other year.

 

[JerseyKloppite]

From 1999 to 2009 we finished outside of the top 4 twice (and got in CL anyway due to winning it one of the times). Since 2009 we have finished in the top 4 once. FSG have done a great job in lowering expectations.

In 1999 there were 3 'big clubs' in England - United, Arsenal and us. Leeds flirted with the top, Newcastle had one or two decent seasons. Then Chelsea were bought by Abramovich and the football landscape changed.

Still, from circa 2004 until 2008/2009 there were 4 big clubs, the previous three plus Chelsea. No great surprise that we qualified for the CL most seasons, led by Rafa.

Then in 2008 City were bought, and have since spent shedloads to close the gap and overtake us. We don't have their resources, nor avenues to attain them. Meanwhile, we were bought by fuckwits who damaged the club spectacularly from a financial perspective. We've been rebuilding ever since, and on top of that trying to catch up with the kind of commercial operations that our rivals had in place over a decade before.

So we have Chelsea (mega-rich), City (mega-rich), United (very wealthy with a background of huge recent success) and Arsenal (stability, huge new stadium, champions league consistency). Even Spurs' brief fling with success complicated the equation.

So whose fault is it that things haven't been so rosy since 2009? If you still think it's all FSG's then there's no point arguing about it. They're trying to build the club within its means, and until Bill Gates outs himself as a Liverpool fan there's not a lot more we can do. Even if we got a stupidly rich owner now FFP would inhibit their influence.

[The 5th Benitle]

We started off moaning about how shit Sakho is

For fuck's sake.

[jambutty]

How 'bout a moan-o-meter, that logs you (your) bitches and lets you know when you get dangerously close to reaching critical ass.

[Alan_X]

From 1999 to 2009 we finished outside of the top 4 twice (and got in CL anyway due to winning it one of the times). Since 2009 we have finished in the top 4 once. FSG have done a great job in lowering expectations.

Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003 and pumped hundreds of millions into the team. Sheik Mansour bought Man City in 2009 and did the same with Man City.

In 2007 we were bought by two arseholes who almost destroyed the club.

In 2013 Arsenal (owned by an American who knows fuck all and cares less about soccer) paid off the loans they took out to build the Emirates and started to free up funds for big transfers.

At Man United, despite the Glazers using the clubs income as a slush fund, their income dwarfs every other club and until the comedy appointment of Moyes had been managed by the king of the flat track bullies.

But yeah, it's all FSG's doing.

Personally, my expectations were lowered by Hicks and Gillette when my principal target was to see my club freed from the ownership of two poisonous leeches and hopefully not go bankrupt and be relegated to the Championship. But I guess when you're rewriting history you might as well airbrush out anything that doesn't fit the current 'truth'.

[Mr_Morosoph]

The constant positivity from some posters is more annoying to me to be honest. People who tell you everything is great when they clearly aren't. People who will tell you Joey Barton would be a good signing if he signed tomorrow. Sometimes things are shit and sometimes we sign players that aren't very good. You've seen them play for years but you're not allowed to judge them until they've had their testimonial at Liverpool, unless you think they're good.

[Solomon Grundy]

The constant positivity from some posters is more annoying to me to be honest. People who tell you everything is great when they clearly aren't. People who will tell you Joey Barton would be a good signing if he signed tomorrow. Sometimes things are shit and sometimes we sign players that aren't very good. You've seen them play for years but you're not allowed to judge them until they've had their testimonial at Liverpool, unless you think they're good.

Yes, we all know your upset we've signed Danny Ings mate. Let it all out...