Author Topic: End of season round table debate (*)  (Read 67796 times)

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #280 on: June 2, 2015, 08:49:11 AM »

Slightly unfair to call people backstabbers Timbo. A backstabber is one of the lowest things there is. And making a reasoned case for why it might be for the best, if circumstances allow (ie: meaning if a better manager can be secured) is not an issue of backstabbing. I've yet to read any post here that isn't regretful about Brendan. Its not something anyone considers lightly.

If Brendan is here next season its up to us to get behind him and support him. I'll be doing that.



D'you know what you're right Stussy lad - thinking about it a slithery snake in the grass is well lower and a far more accurate representation.

Thanks for correcting me  - I'll alter the wording in the post accordingly.

 ;D


Offline seenitall

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #281 on: June 2, 2015, 09:33:59 AM »
We've paid a very heavy price for buying a squad in one window instead of building it over 3 or 4.  Gambles on costly potential and expensive one season players haven't paid off.  Been said a good few times on previous pages so won't start bleating about who shouldn't have brought in as its all too obvious.

Whose fault is it?  Who knows?  The structure and suggestions about the transfer committee paint nothing but a confusing and murky picture.  Makes it so difficult to identify the shortcomings.  Maybe its a collective problem due to the system but there was always going to be one man hung out to dry if it all went tits up.

Do I blame Rodgers?  Managers make mistakes and I believe he is a very good man who isn't blameless.  As has been suggested, maybe the LIverpool job has come 5 or 6 years too early for him.  Maybe last season was about individuals, fewer games and having the rub of the green.  Maybe this season has been about bad signings, too many games and bad luck on the field in games and with injuries to key players.  I reckon the truth lies somewhere in between.  On some matters Brendan has to take the blame.

In respect of the season - Negatives?  Even though I've purposefully given it a week for the dust to settle I could still sit here all night typing about negatives. 

Positives?  Jordon Ibe, Emre Can (in a central position) and the fact that the stadium expansion has started - albeit about 15-20 years after it was required!

Going forward to next season.  Not sure really.  With the exception of Hodgson I haven't been in the position of ever wanting one of our managers sacked and I'm still not.  The owl was the only one who just didn't get anything about the club and fans.  Brendan does and I so want him to succeed and I want him to be given a chance but there are just so many odds stacked against him.

I think the type of player he requires to deliver his 'vision' means we are going to be out-priced in the market for key targets.  We need players with proven technical ability that have done it over a number of seasons at a high level. More concerning is I think that a new spine to the team is required - goalkeeper, a top centre back, a holding midfielder (Can?) and goalscorer - whats the cost of that investment?  £120m-£130m.  What is the chance of getting those players in and it working straight away?  Another year of big investment is needed and will FSG trust him with another shed load of money?  Just can't see it personally.

I look at it this way.  If we invest in the right players and we get a good start under Brendan - fantastic.  I'm confident it will continue and be a good season.  But the doubt is currently there and always will be through the close season.  We need to spend and if we have another pre-season like last season it could set us back numerous years to putting a realistic challenge for top four in.  It will be interesting to see which players we bring in as I notice that we are being linked with mostly free transfers as our (supposedly) main targets.

The Palace 3-1 and Stoke 6-1 could have left irreparable damage to Brendan's relationship with certain players and a lot of the fans.  The fans that want him gone will skin him alive if we don't start well next season.  Most of the other fans who want it to work out could easily lose the faith at a poor start.  Even if Brendan does avoid the boot, it will be either 'hit the ground running' or be ousted early in the season.

I look at the owners and their knowledge of the game.  I look at the way they they ruthlessly culled Kenny.  I look at the lower risk signings we are being linked with.  I look at the links with Klopp and him now saying he's going to take (indefinite) leave from the game after vehemently denying he was having a break a few weeks back (if he's not being lined up here then he's being lined up for somewhere!).  Then I look at when Sturridge is to return - a chap whose goals last season could have evaded all this doubt and, as much as want it to work out (on the memories of the 13/14 seasons brilliant football) I to have doubts he'll be given sufficient opportunity.

Great, measured post


Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #282 on: June 2, 2015, 11:12:10 AM »
We dont want any comment on Brendan Rodgers on these boards, even if you are measured and not personal.Even though there may be good reasons to question his tactics , player management, positioning of players and transfer policy. If you do comment you will be banned. Pravdaesque.  :wave

I know more than a few lads with your take on things so I think I do 'get' the intrinsic thinking here.

These are lads around 30/40 ish - sons of mates - and they recoiled in horror when FSG first appointed Rodgers. They felt a huge club of LFC's standing required a heavyweight manager with a standing that corresponded to ours. Someone like a Van gaal or an Ancelotti or a Mourinho etc. One who could attract and manage players of the very highest calibre so we didn't simply have to rely upon the attraction of the club's past record which many younger players might not even rate that highly.

And so these lads have never been able to shake off that in built downer on Rodgers.

Any time I talk with them- even during the amazing effort of the season before last - the dissing of Rodgers for not being up to the level fit for LFC would permeate any discussion based upon their jaundiced take on even the positive aspects let alone the negative ones.

"With Suarez and Sturridge up front any idiot could manage this team and win the league".

"Why didn't he just play for the draw against Chelea and let them come at us?"

"He's the manager, he signed all the players - so he's responsible for us being so shite".

And so on and so forth.

Now there's no denying the slithers of truth and reality in what these lads maintain and only a complete Rodgers apologist would deny the blatant failings and mistakes the fellow has made. Then again only a complete anti-Rodgers apologist would be unable to admit to the undeniable positives of the same fellow's tenure.

And underpinning it all there surely has to be a link of some sorts back to one of the core tenets of this club's very essence - namely to stick not just with the club but also with your manager through the thick and the thin such that when you do emerge on the other side with perhaps something to show it will actually be something of a truly collective tripartite fan/team/manager worth and not just some trinketty honour borne on the back of some reliable old '5 times around the block' warhorse or the latest state of the art German

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #283 on: June 2, 2015, 11:19:47 AM »
Agreed, that's a poor run of results, but it also ties in with losing Suarez, Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Arbeloa, Hyppia, Carragher, Kuyt, Rodriguez - I'm sure there are others who slip my mind. Add in the loss of form/quality of Reina, and the ageing process of Gerrard... There's only so much you can do with a lesser quality of player. Even Rafa, while giving us all Istanbul, achieved 5th with a poor squad of players inherited from the end of Houllier's days.

I'm happy if Rodgers is our Manager next season. Wouldn't have swapped him for Klopp or Rafa. The former I'd be happy to have, but had less teams/wealth to compete with domestically, and has also had a very difficult last season, below expectations. I don't see too much difference to Rodgers there. Rafa would keep an already divided fan base very much apart. Ancelotti though, that made me think. 3 time European Cup winner. Multiple domestic/cup champion. Would attract players. Command, rather than still be earning/developing, respect within the game. If he's not available though, I'm still made up we have Brendan.

Timbo (along with others) has been determined to focus on the lack of strikers through this thread, and rightly so in my book, it's all about the goals that went missing from Suarez/Sturridge. If, IF, we can replace that in the summer, we'll be there or thereabouts next season. Add in a couple of other players who immediately offer more than value that what we have - and we might be a surprise again.

If you break the 3 seasons down into smaller parts, Rodgers' time goes something along these lines:

Season 1 - One fit striker, Suarez, until January - signs Coutinho/Sturridge. January onwards - posts over 2 points per game, aka, top four form.

Season 2 - Continues around 2 ppg until Xmas. January onwards, takes us on an 11 game winning streak, plays the most brilliant expansive game, showing no fear home/away, and takes us to within an inch of the title. From 7th place.

Season 3 - Loses Suarez/Sturridge. Up until xmas form/performance/results range from patchy at best, through poor but lucky all the way to bad. Adapts formation around the midway point, goes on very lengthy  unbeaten run posting title challenging form over about 12-13 games.

It's at this point, looking back, that the major concerns kick in for me. The poor performances in the key games against Man Utd & Villa, the seemingly unsure selections and mid-match changes, the complete loss of confidence towards the end of the season. In itself, I'm not too concerned. A bit of time away to re-think, re-jig, adjust the squad, reflect and review would be beneficial to all. Unfortunately he doesn't work in a vacuum and the split of the fans at large, with outright hatred and venom in some quarters, will make turning things round more difficult. Doesn't make we want him sacked though.

I hope, and have belief, that we could well be at a similar point to his mid-first season, lack of strikers/attacking class. Get him a bit of attacking threat. Then we can go at about 2 points per game. If we have the cash, get him some more. Then we might win it.

Smashing post btw.

I see things exactly the same way. It's just that as soon as I start a post intending to achieve the sort of ambivalence you've achieved so effortlessly, the emotions take hold and I end up never being able to hold back all the instinctive frustration I feel for the 'me me me, I want, I demand, I'm owed' footy generation and those amongst even the older footy generation whom their self-righteous demands seem to have contaminated.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2015, 11:32:55 AM by Timbo's Goals »

Offline Stussy

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #284 on: June 2, 2015, 12:57:38 PM »
D'you know what you're right Stussy lad - thinking about it a slithery snake in the grass is well lower and a far more accurate representation.

Thanks for correcting me  - I'll alter the wording in the post accordingly.

 ;D

Just people with a point of view different to yours. That's the better change in wording to make.

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Offline RedHopper

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #285 on: June 2, 2015, 03:36:45 PM »
There are some great posts on this thread, and a lot of serious thought and insight.

I think if this season taught us anything, it is about the value of a striker. Last year we went so close, because in Suarez, we had a striker who gave us enormous tactical flexibility, and made virtually every system we employed look better. Suarez had enormous pace, strength, and ability to hold up the ball, or dribble, and link up. He could run in behind the opposition, which terrified most defences, but if you sat deep, he could drop a little deeper, and receive a long pass, and turn and commit defenders, or instantly finding a teammate. Virtually every pass to suarez turned into a good pass. If you ran to a good position, off him, suarez would definitely be able to receive the ball and find you. The goals were also great, but I'm more concerned with his impact on the way we played as a team.

Suarez made raheem sterling into a much better player. Every time he overelaborated, or made the wrong decision, suarez would scream at him. When he started to do what suarez told him, he became a much more effective player, and suarez set him up for a lot of goals, and scored from a lot of his passes. and Then Suarez would shower him in love when he did the right thing. Defenders looking around nervously to see where suarez went, meant that sturridge made hay. I suppose the point ultimately is that Suarez was the sort of complete forward that could make any system work. Coutinho flourished in the maelstrom of high speed attacking movement.

I suppose the point of mentioning this is that Having a player like suarez means that he breaks the link between results, and whether or not you are doing the best job of organizing and fielding your other 10 players. You get a lot of false positives. For instance, we nearly won the league, that would almost indicate with certainty that our defence was well organized, and our midfield was offering them adequate cover. That was very far from the case. We let in 50 league goals. Essentially, you can't really see the areas where a manager is supposed to be making the real difference to the team. Identifying that you have a brilliant player, and building the front half of the team to support him is only one part of the job.

You see, even after three years, it's not clear what Brendan Rodgers' vision of football is. It seems to change all the time. I was listening to Steven Hunt talking about him on the second captains podcast, and he writes a very readable, and interesting column in the Sunday Independent. Firstly Hunt really likes rodgers as a person, and is very grateful to him for the thoughtful and decent way he dealt with him around the time he was leaving the club. (Echoing what Roy Keane says about rodgers the man.) But there was a very big gap between the way rodgers talked about football post swansea, and when he was at reading. At Reading it was all 4-3-3, resting on the ball, quick attacking transitions, and set pieces. And if you didn't know that he had been at chelsea, learning from mourinho, he would use portuguese words all the time. Hunt's reaction was "why are you using portuguese words, you're from Northern Ireland." Then after swansea it was death by football, and bringing out the technical skills in players. Two years at a club with a different culture of playing, and he was talking about playing in almost exactly the opposite way about football. He had made the philosophical jump from being a disciple of Mourinho to being a disciple of Guardiola.

Brendan received a lot of credit for the way that swansea took the premiership by storm. However, with the benefit of hindsight, it might be more appropriate to see Brendan as one in a line of managers who has implemented basically the same way of playing, and this consistency of style has enable a club with a 20,000 seater stadium regularly finish in the top half of the premier league, win a cup, get into europe, and generate huge profits along the way.  He did a great job with them, and got them promoted, unlike martinez, but he didn't really invent that way of playing at all.

Now ideally, this could indicate the sign of a tacitcally flexible mind. Someone who was prepared to see football from both sides, before melding the two into a perfect fusion of physical, defensively well drilled total football. But after three years that's not really what has happened at all is it? We're still conceding an average of 47 goals a season. We're keeping a clean sheet in about a third of our games, but we're letting in an average of two goals in all of the rest. We're a shambles at defending set pieces. In the past people used to love to jump on Rafa when zonal marking at set pieces  went wrong (but never showing all the times it went right) but now they show us defending like fools at set pieces, and there's no upside to that.

I think what we may have seen over the last three years was Brendan adapting his view of how football played a third time to fit the circumstances of the club he was managing. When he took over the two main pillars of the team were Gerrard and Suarez. So instead of implementing all of the things that he was hired to implement, he set about getting the most out of those two players. And that looked glorious last season. However this season, with Suarez gone, and with a load of money to sign players to implement his vision, we were left with a frequently shambolic defence, an unbalanced midfield, and a frequently non-functioning attack. We're no nearer seeing a cohesive style of play, that balances defensive organization and cohesive work off the ball, with an identifiable, possession based system of play when we do have the ball.

A certain amount of this can be put down to needing to accommodate Steven Gerrard, who offered a lot to us in terms of leadership by example, and ability to distribute the ball accurately and effectively over long distances. However he offered very little when we didn't have the ball, due to toll taken by age and injury, and his struggles with adapting to a deeper lying role. When Dejan Lovren was playing well at southampton the season before, he had a regular defensive partner, two well drilled full backs, he had fraser Forster behind him, and schneiderlein and wanyama in front of him. Everything was set up for him to succeed. This season, we've offered him no midfield cover, and chopped and changed our defence constantly while asking him to play in a way that leaves him more exposed to counter attackers.. No wonder he's struggled.

The big worry I would take from the season just gone, is that there was no coherent plan. When suarez left, we needed to find a forward who at least did all the things that suarez did that sturridge couldn't really do. We did nothing of the sort. That combined with sturridge's injury put enormous pressure on the rest of the team, to overcome the loss of attacking potency. Without an effective line leading forward, who could link up with teammates, it was No wonder that so many of our new signings struggled. There was no clear, and effective way of playing for them to fit into. If you look back at the way we seemed to be able to seamlessly introduce players into the liverpool way of playing, back at our peak, it was made easier by us having such a consistent and all encompassing way of playing. If you wanted a fight, then we'd give you a fight. When we defended, we defended as a unit. When we had the ball, we could attack down either flank, or through the middle, and switch effortlessly between both sides. We had forwards who could score every sort of goal, so you didn't know how to defend against us, and as a defender, our players only gave you bad choices. A new signing was given a defined role, and could adapt to it, while being supported by top class players, who were all doing their own job consistently well. Bob Paisley and joe Fagan's teams were so dominant at home, and in europe because they had such a well ingrained system of play, that enable intelligent players to show tactical awareness, to consistently find weaknesses in whatever opponent they played. So many times we went to some far flung corner of europe, shut the opposition down, and grabbed an away goal, before bringing them home to anfield and smashing into them like a train. 

This consistency of approach and all encompassing nature of style of play characterized Ferguson's time at man utd. Like us at our peak, it was never a question of only having a really good plan A. There was also plan B, C and D to take out of the drawer at the appropriate time. Like us at our peak, they always seemed to find a way. That's how you win titles. Again like us at our peak they had a pretty decent record of making their relatively small number of transfers stick. Ferguson never innovated anything. He just carefully studied what worked really well for other people, and ruthlessly implemented it, within a consistent set of footballing principles. again he didn't come up with this way of doing things.   It's how we did things at our peak.

This is why I'm particularly worried about what we saw this season. I don't know if the manager has a clear vision in his head of how it all fits together. If he has a vision in his head that fuses his time learning from mourinho, with his immersion in possession football at swansea, Combining the best features of the two, would be perfect for us. But this season, there was little  evidence of this vision on the pitch, and we certainly didn't buy players fitted to achieving it.  The point here is that time is ticking. Mourinho is strengthening Chelsea season by season. Arsene Wenger is showing worrying signs of life. Van Gaal is a managerial genius, and  more than any other manager in football, he has a clear idea of how it all fits together tactically. With the amount of money at his disposal, god help us all when man utd stop buying players at random, and buy them to fit his system.

The point is that we are a relatively rich club by world standards. We're not as wealthy as the clubs above us, and we can't go out and sign too many of a certain class of established, top quality players. But there are still an awful lot of good players out there, and if you look back at the players we signed when we were at our peak, there were very few world stars signed for massive fees. This is why we need a manager who has a coherent effective style of play, and can find players who fit that system, and make our own stars. Like we used to, back when we kept having to expand the trophy cabinet every season. The question for us this season doesn't hinge around us finishing sixth in the league, wasting a lot of money in the transfer market, losing nearly all our big games, and playing some awful football at times. These things happen. Instead We have to decide if Brendan Rodgers has this vision in his head, and if he can implement it. Because if he can't, we can't afford an other season of drifting along, and finishing outside the CL, while the other clubs pull ahead of us financially.

The potential rewards for success are huge. Regular Champions league football would lead to a big cash injection. A regular place at the top table of european football, would make it easier for us to keep our better players, and attract the players to make the next step to title challengers. Success and exposure in the CL and in title challenges would enable us to use our global fanbase to massively increase our commercial earnings. Expanding our stadium would have a much bigger impact if we were getting five or six CL full houses every season. But in order to achieve this, we need to have the right man in charge. And this season has left me very depressed on that front. 

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #286 on: June 2, 2015, 05:19:23 PM »
The negativity of the fan base at the moment is unbelievable.  I'm quite upbeat about the season to come.

You must be in a population of 2 or 3 then. I cannot see us coming higher than 5th. Realistically i reckon 5th - 7th. We are miles off the top four now.

Offline actwithoutwords

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #287 on: June 2, 2015, 05:29:42 PM »
I'm not a Brendan-hater, and I want him to succeed. But this is all feeling a bit deflating. It felt like there was a plan before. Feels like we're just drifting now. Brendan is very damaged from these last three months. The lack of character in big games, the way the players have behaved since the FA cup semi, his own poor decisions, his apparent breakdown in communication with Sterling and the fact it seems multiple players are fed up with him. Where do we go from here? Can't help but feel Brendan won't last 12 months and next season is going to be another write-off.

Offline muyuu

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #288 on: June 2, 2015, 05:30:44 PM »
You must be in a population of 2 or 3 then. I cannot see us coming higher than 5th. Realistically i reckon 5th - 7th. We are miles off the top four now.

That was my prediction last season, I expect similar this season but let's see how things shape up before the start of the season.
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Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #289 on: June 2, 2015, 05:32:19 PM »
That`s the beauty of football, nothing is permanent. Football fans are so fickle if we start winning again and we`re up there Christmas time all this will be forgotten and people will get behind him. But he has to find the goalscorers we need and he has to start winning games again.

Offline Obviously

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #290 on: June 2, 2015, 05:32:36 PM »
Well if he's staying I hope some positive changes are happening, whether its in our recruitment or in Brendan's plans for how he's going to achieve something next season.

I think we'll fall further behind to be honest, i don't want us to, but the faith is gone. We'll lose Sterling this summer, probably Coutinho next summer, and might even have to change managers before the season is over, thats my prediction. We are on a downward spiral, and we won't change that until both the TC and manager changes IMO. Rodgers doesn't have the ability to change that, another year like this is another year wasted and more distance between us and the top. I had the same feeling with Hodgson, and it doesn't feel good.

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #291 on: June 2, 2015, 05:32:40 PM »
I'm not a Brendan-hater, and I want him to succeed. But this is all feeling a bit deflating. It felt like there was a plan before. Feels like we're just drifting now. Brendan is very damaged from these last three months. The lack of character in big games, the way the players have behaved since the FA cup semi, his own poor decisions, his apparent breakdown in communication with Sterling and the fact it seems multiple players are fed up with him. Where do we go from here? Can't help but feel Brendan won't last 12 months and next season is going to be another write-off.

Pretty much how I feel. He can't afford to start slowly come August.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #292 on: June 2, 2015, 05:41:09 PM »
Well if he's staying I hope some positive changes are happening, whether its in our recruitment or in Brendan's plans for how he's going to achieve something next season.

This.

Happy enough that he's staying but things need to change in the recruitment department.

I am slightly concerned what the atmosphere surrounding the club will be like if we don't have a good start to the season though.

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #293 on: June 2, 2015, 05:44:38 PM »
This.

Happy enough that he's staying but things need to change in the recruitment department.

I am slightly concerned what the atmosphere surrounding the club will be like if we don't have a good start to the season though.

Thing is, we've already got our targets now. Even if our 'strategy' does change, it won't affect this summer.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline Stussy

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #294 on: June 2, 2015, 05:44:52 PM »
Brendan faces massive challenges pushing on next season after the way this season ended. If I'm not mistaken we ended up with fewer points than Moyes did after his United campaign. By sticking with Brendan FSG are taking a real bold stance. They better back him up in the transfer market in a major way, and somehow we have to have communicated to us what exactly is going to change.
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Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #295 on: June 2, 2015, 05:47:24 PM »
They have shown the money, the problem is were throwing it away to other PL clubs.



The problem is FSG's wage structure. It is believed they are very keen on offering lower wages with performance related bonuses on top. In theory that sounds good, but in reality it makes Brendan and the TC's job even harder to convince the really good players to join us, especially without CL football. Which means we end up having to pick from a shelf or two down. Which brings greater risk because usually those players aren't top notch or only have the potential to become top notch players. Which gives us a wider margin for error in the transfer market.

Offline Obviously

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #296 on: June 2, 2015, 05:59:48 PM »
The problem is FSG's wage structure. It is believed they are very keen on offering lower wages with performance related bonuses on top. In theory that sounds good, but in reality it makes Brendan and the TC's job even harder to convince the really good players to join us, especially without CL football. Which means we end up having to pick from a shelf or two down. Which brings greater risk because usually those players aren't top notch or only have the potential to become top notch players. Which gives us a wider margin for error in the transfer market.

I'd say the problem is that they pick the wrong players, look at the wrong market. If we're only going for the Ings, Benteke, Lovren, Lallana, Clyne, Milner type players, then i could be a scout at the club, takes no effort what so ever. Look at MOTD and there you go. There are great players out there, you just need to pick them up at the right time. No we can't compete with biggest clubs, so we have to be smarter than them. We have to pick up Dybala and Lacazette last summer before their stock rises. Monchi at Sevilla has proven it can be done, you just have to be smart. We have a bigger wage budget and transfer budget than them, but they are a better team than us. The whole PL proven idea is flawed, and the last 15 years we haven't brought in anyone from another PL who was good enough IMO. That said, Henderson is developing nicely. Arbeloa cost us 2 million, Johnson 17(?), and id rather have Arbeloa any day of the week.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #297 on: June 2, 2015, 06:12:09 PM »
Some of the phrases that have been used in reporting this news suggest that there has been some compromise on both sides. One of the outcomes that I really desire to see though is the abolishment of the transfer committee. Okay, it sounded like a good idea but in practice it was disastrous. Time to leave it behind and go back to a conventional model.

Can't say that I am doing backflips about the news, but it is what it is. Time to get behind Brendan and hope that we are able to uncover a gem of a striker who will score 20 plus league goals. We won't be buying a ready made one so I hope the scouts are keeping themselves busy.
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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #298 on: June 2, 2015, 06:13:15 PM »
I'd say the problem is that they pick the wrong players, look at the wrong market. If we're only going for the Ings, Benteke, Lovren, Lallana, Clyne, Milner type players, then i could be a scout at the club, takes no effort what so ever. Look at MOTD and there you go. There are great players out there, you just need to pick them up at the right time. No we can't compete with biggest clubs, so we have to be smarter than them. We have to pick up Dybala and Lacazette last summer before their stock rises. Monchi at Sevilla has proven it can be done, you just have to be smart. We have a bigger wage budget and transfer budget than them, but they are a better team than us. The whole PL proven idea is flawed, and the last 15 years we haven't brought in anyone from another PL who was good enough IMO. That said, Henderson is developing nicely. Arbeloa cost us 2 million, Johnson 17(?), and id rather have Arbeloa any day of the week.


You have a point. But who set up the TC and picked the people who formed it?...

Basically despite FSG putting money back into the club they're just as culpable for wasting it, because despite being here 4 years they still don't have proper structure in place with real footballing men who are capable of running a club of our size. Men who can spot a gem of a player when they see one and men who are capable of getting deals past the finish line for those such players.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2015, 06:15:01 PM by Solomon Grundy »

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #299 on: June 2, 2015, 06:19:48 PM »
Brendan faces massive challenges pushing on next season after the way this season ended. If I'm not mistaken we ended up with fewer points than Moyes did after his United campaign. By sticking with Brendan FSG are taking a real bold stance. They better back him up in the transfer market in a major way, and somehow we have to have communicated to us what exactly is going to change.

FSG just didn't fancy paying him off.
I think they are now treading water until they put us up for sale when the stand is finished.
The imminent signings do not suggest any real drive to push us back up the table. Neither does keeping Rodgers, who looked a busted flush for more than half the season.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #300 on: June 2, 2015, 06:21:51 PM »
FSG just didn't fancy paying him off.
I think they are now treading water until they put us up for sale when the stand is finished.
The imminent signings do not suggest any real drive to push us back up the table. Neither does keeping Rodgers, who looked a busted flush for more than half the season.

That sounds plausible to be honest.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #301 on: June 2, 2015, 06:33:57 PM »
There are some great posts on this thread, and a lot of serious thought and insight.

I think if this season taught us anything, it is about the value of a striker. Last year we went so close, because in Suarez, we had a striker who gave us enormous tactical flexibility, and made virtually every system we employed look better. Suarez had enormous pace, strength, and ability to hold up the ball, or dribble, and link up. He could run in behind the opposition, which terrified most defences, but if you sat deep, he could drop a little deeper, and receive a long pass, and turn and commit defenders, or instantly finding a teammate. Virtually every pass to suarez turned into a good pass. If you ran to a good position, off him, suarez would definitely be able to receive the ball and find you. The goals were also great, but I'm more concerned with his impact on the way we played as a team.

Suarez made raheem sterling into a much better player. Every time he overelaborated, or made the wrong decision, suarez would scream at him. When he started to do what suarez told him, he became a much more effective player, and suarez set him up for a lot of goals, and scored from a lot of his passes. and Then Suarez would shower him in love when he did the right thing. Defenders looking around nervously to see where suarez went, meant that sturridge made hay. I suppose the point ultimately is that Suarez was the sort of complete forward that could make any system work. Coutinho flourished in the maelstrom of high speed attacking movement.

I suppose the point of mentioning this is that Having a player like suarez means that he breaks the link between results, and whether or not you are doing the best job of organizing and fielding your other 10 players. You get a lot of false positives. For instance, we nearly won the league, that would almost indicate with certainty that our defence was well organized, and our midfield was offering them adequate cover. That was very far from the case. We let in 50 league goals. Essentially, you can't really see the areas where a manager is supposed to be making the real difference to the team. Identifying that you have a brilliant player, and building the front half of the team to support him is only one part of the job.

You see, even after three years, it's not clear what Brendan Rodgers' vision of football is. It seems to change all the time. I was listening to Steven Hunt talking about him on the second captains podcast, and he writes a very readable, and interesting column in the Sunday Independent. Firstly Hunt really likes rodgers as a person, and is very grateful to him for the thoughtful and decent way he dealt with him around the time he was leaving the club. (Echoing what Roy Keane says about rodgers the man.) But there was a very big gap between the way rodgers talked about football post swansea, and when he was at reading. At Reading it was all 4-3-3, resting on the ball, quick attacking transitions, and set pieces. And if you didn't know that he had been at chelsea, learning from mourinho, he would use portuguese words all the time. Hunt's reaction was "why are you using portuguese words, you're from Northern Ireland." Then after swansea it was death by football, and bringing out the technical skills in players. Two years at a club with a different culture of playing, and he was talking about playing in almost exactly the opposite way about football. He had made the philosophical jump from being a disciple of Mourinho to being a disciple of Guardiola.

Brendan received a lot of credit for the way that swansea took the premiership by storm. However, with the benefit of hindsight, it might be more appropriate to see Brendan as one in a line of managers who has implemented basically the same way of playing, and this consistency of style has enable a club with a 20,000 seater stadium regularly finish in the top half of the premier league, win a cup, get into europe, and generate huge profits along the way.  He did a great job with them, and got them promoted, unlike martinez, but he didn't really invent that way of playing at all.

Now ideally, this could indicate the sign of a tacitcally flexible mind. Someone who was prepared to see football from both sides, before melding the two into a perfect fusion of physical, defensively well drilled total football. But after three years that's not really what has happened at all is it? We're still conceding an average of 47 goals a season. We're keeping a clean sheet in about a third of our games, but we're letting in an average of two goals in all of the rest. We're a shambles at defending set pieces. In the past people used to love to jump on Rafa when zonal marking at set pieces  went wrong (but never showing all the times it went right) but now they show us defending like fools at set pieces, and there's no upside to that.

I think what we may have seen over the last three years was Brendan adapting his view of how football played a third time to fit the circumstances of the club he was managing. When he took over the two main pillars of the team were Gerrard and Suarez. So instead of implementing all of the things that he was hired to implement, he set about getting the most out of those two players. And that looked glorious last season. However this season, with Suarez gone, and with a load of money to sign players to implement his vision, we were left with a frequently shambolic defence, an unbalanced midfield, and a frequently non-functioning attack. We're no nearer seeing a cohesive style of play, that balances defensive organization and cohesive work off the ball, with an identifiable, possession based system of play when we do have the ball.

A certain amount of this can be put down to needing to accommodate Steven Gerrard, who offered a lot to us in terms of leadership by example, and ability to distribute the ball accurately and effectively over long distances. However he offered very little when we didn't have the ball, due to toll taken by age and injury, and his struggles with adapting to a deeper lying role. When Dejan Lovren was playing well at southampton the season before, he had a regular defensive partner, two well drilled full backs, he had fraser Forster behind him, and schneiderlein and wanyama in front of him. Everything was set up for him to succeed. This season, we've offered him no midfield cover, and chopped and changed our defence constantly while asking him to play in a way that leaves him more exposed to counter attackers.. No wonder he's struggled.

The big worry I would take from the season just gone, is that there was no coherent plan. When suarez left, we needed to find a forward who at least did all the things that suarez did that sturridge couldn't really do. We did nothing of the sort. That combined with sturridge's injury put enormous pressure on the rest of the team, to overcome the loss of attacking potency. Without an effective line leading forward, who could link up with teammates, it was No wonder that so many of our new signings struggled. There was no clear, and effective way of playing for them to fit into. If you look back at the way we seemed to be able to seamlessly introduce players into the liverpool way of playing, back at our peak, it was made easier by us having such a consistent and all encompassing way of playing. If you wanted a fight, then we'd give you a fight. When we defended, we defended as a unit. When we had the ball, we could attack down either flank, or through the middle, and switch effortlessly between both sides. We had forwards who could score every sort of goal, so you didn't know how to defend against us, and as a defender, our players only gave you bad choices. A new signing was given a defined role, and could adapt to it, while being supported by top class players, who were all doing their own job consistently well. Bob Paisley and joe Fagan's teams were so dominant at home, and in europe because they had such a well ingrained system of play, that enable intelligent players to show tactical awareness, to consistently find weaknesses in whatever opponent they played. So many times we went to some far flung corner of europe, shut the opposition down, and grabbed an away goal, before bringing them home to anfield and smashing into them like a train. 

This consistency of approach and all encompassing nature of style of play characterized Ferguson's time at man utd. Like us at our peak, it was never a question of only having a really good plan A. There was also plan B, C and D to take out of the drawer at the appropriate time. Like us at our peak, they always seemed to find a way. That's how you win titles. Again like us at our peak they had a pretty decent record of making their relatively small number of transfers stick. Ferguson never innovated anything. He just carefully studied what worked really well for other people, and ruthlessly implemented it, within a consistent set of footballing principles. again he didn't come up with this way of doing things.   It's how we did things at our peak.

This is why I'm particularly worried about what we saw this season. I don't know if the manager has a clear vision in his head of how it all fits together. If he has a vision in his head that fuses his time learning from mourinho, with his immersion in possession football at swansea, Combining the best features of the two, would be perfect for us. But this season, there was little  evidence of this vision on the pitch, and we certainly didn't buy players fitted to achieving it.  The point here is that time is ticking. Mourinho is strengthening Chelsea season by season. Arsene Wenger is showing worrying signs of life. Van Gaal is a managerial genius, and  more than any other manager in football, he has a clear idea of how it all fits together tactically. With the amount of money at his disposal, god help us all when man utd stop buying players at random, and buy them to fit his system.

The point is that we are a relatively rich club by world standards. We're not as wealthy as the clubs above us, and we can't go out and sign too many of a certain class of established, top quality players. But there are still an awful lot of good players out there, and if you look back at the players we signed when we were at our peak, there were very few world stars signed for massive fees. This is why we need a manager who has a coherent effective style of play, and can find players who fit that system, and make our own stars. Like we used to, back when we kept having to expand the trophy cabinet every season. The question for us this season doesn't hinge around us finishing sixth in the league, wasting a lot of money in the transfer market, losing nearly all our big games, and playing some awful football at times. These things happen. Instead We have to decide if Brendan Rodgers has this vision in his head, and if he can implement it. Because if he can't, we can't afford an other season of drifting along, and finishing outside the CL, while the other clubs pull ahead of us financially.

The potential rewards for success are huge. Regular Champions league football would lead to a big cash injection. A regular place at the top table of european football, would make it easier for us to keep our better players, and attract the players to make the next step to title challengers. Success and exposure in the CL and in title challenges would enable us to use our global fanbase to massively increase our commercial earnings. Expanding our stadium would have a much bigger impact if we were getting five or six CL full houses every season. But in order to achieve this, we need to have the right man in charge. And this season has left me very depressed on that front. 

Exactly, look at Fergusson, made a career out of buying the best strikers he could and pretty much letting the rest of the squad sort itself out.
Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #302 on: June 2, 2015, 06:54:56 PM »
Brendan Rodgers to STAY as Liverpool manager

BRENDAN RODGERS will remain as Liverpool manager following his end-of-season review with the Anfield hierarchy.

By PAUL JOYCE
PUBLISHED: 18:30, Tue, Jun 2, 2015 | UPDATED: 18:36, Tue, Jun 2, 2015

Rodgers met chairman Tom Werner and Mike Gordon, president of the club’s owners Fenway Sports Group, for a two-hour debrief at a city centre location yesterday into why the campaign had fallen short of expectations.

The upshot the meeting is that Rodgers will be handed the chance to lead Liverpool’s revival next season after all parties agreed on a “comprehensive plan for improvement” designed to help the club move forward.

Liverpool did not discuss the details of that blueprint, and it is unclear whether there will be a reshuffle behind the scenes, but Rodgers’ position is unchanged.

The summit talks have been described as “good and productive” and that manager and FSG “move forward together.”

Imminent deals for the likes of James Milner and Danny Ings have been set in motion by Rodgers, who is also keen to land Southampton full-back Nathaniel Clyne. Liverpool had a bid of £9m rejected last week.

Rodgers’ position had come under scrutiny after Liverpool’s campaign fell short of expectations with a sixth place finish in the Premier League and an early exit from the Champions League.

Although he guided the club to semi-finals in both domestic cup competitions, last summer’s £110m spending spree has left the club feeling short changed with a number of players failing to establish themselves.

Set against that have been the repeated injuries suffered by Daniel Sturridge, who was ruled out for practically all of last season and Liverpool suffered as a result.

The 6-1 drubbing by Stoke in the final game of the season has seen many supporters lose faith in Rodgers and he will head into next season under pressure to prove himself once again.

Werner and Gordon had flown into Merseyside on Monday night for a number of meetings of which the get-together with Rodgers was just one.

Discussions on Liverpool’s stadium expansion were also on the agenda and Werner will now attend the Premier League’s shareholders meeting on Thursday.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/581765/Brendan-Rodgers-remain-Liverpool-manager-talks-Anfield-owners-Fenway-Sports-Group

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #303 on: June 2, 2015, 07:02:39 PM »
Well, I'm a Brendan man then. Club comes first. Hope he proves me wrong.

Yep. If Alex Ferguson was hired tomorrow I'd support the man and I genuinely mean that. Ultimately if Rodgers does well then the club does well and that is all I want.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #304 on: June 2, 2015, 07:02:41 PM »
Liverpool news: Brendan Rodgers stays at Anfield after crunch talks
Liverpool FC manager given go-ahead to revive Anfield club's fortunes after holding pivotal talks with Fenway Sports Group to explain poor season

By Chris Bascombe
6:30PM BST 02 Jun 2015

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has been given the go-ahead to revive his and the club’s fortunes next season following talks with his hierarchy.

Rodgers met chairman Tom Werner and Fenway Sports Group President Michael Gordon on Tuesday where – as expected – the primary focus was how to reshape the side to achieve his targets next season, formulating a ‘comprehensive plan for improvement’. After two hours of talks it was confirmed Rodgers remains in charge, although it remains to be seen if there will be any changes to personnel behind the scenes.

Beyond the clarity on Rodgers' position, no details regarding Liverpool’s plan of action have been revealed at this stage, but the club wants to return to the Champions League and get back to the stylish, attacking football that led to a title challenge in 2014. Rodgers will certainly be backed with several new signings in order to achieve those ambitions.

The conversations with Werner – who flew to England on Monday - have been described as ‘positive, good and productive’ with Liverpool reiterating Rodgers’ position as manager was never on the agenda – the club has delivered that message consistently despite a disappointing campaign.

Rodgers spoke openly after Liverpool’s calamitous final day to defeat to Stoke City, admitting it was inevitable serious questions would be asked about his role, but even then his bosses moved to quell suggestions the outcome of an end-of-season review would end in dismissal.

Privately, club sources persistently dismissed claims Jurgen Klopp and Carlo Ancelotti were under consideration to replace Rodgers.

Although Rodgers will have faced some difficult questions regarding Liverpool’s underperformance, the will remains to see him continue and develop as a coach at Anfield.

Rodgers can now press ahead securing reinforcements with deals for James Milner and Danny Ings agreed in principle. Providing there are no late hitches, both will officially join the club on July 1.

Liverpool will also try to secure the signatures of Christian Benteke and Nathaniel Clyne, but are braced for a summer of resisting several bids for winger Raheem Sterling.

Werner has several departmental meetings to attend for the rest of the week, ahead of attending the Premier League shareholders meeting in London this Thursday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11646998/Liverpool-news-Brendan-Rodgers-stays-at-Anfield-after-crunch-talks.html

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #305 on: June 2, 2015, 07:13:52 PM »
Im glad he is staying. But i dont think anyone can be in any doubt that his position is still on a knife edge. He has to start well. No excuses and people thinking things will get better over time. If he doesnt then the fan pressure will ramp up further and he will drown in a sea of opposition.

He needs to win at least 6 of the first 10 games in the league.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #306 on: June 2, 2015, 07:21:13 PM »
Even 10 days or so after the Stoke debacle, I'm still not sure if Rodgers should be retained as manager. There are so many good posts in here outlining both my doubts and hopes surrounding Rodgers. Thanks to all who have explained their hopes/worries better than I. If I'm being honest, I really can't get those last ten or so games out of my system. They were appalling. Hodgson-like appalling. From the tired and lethargic performance in Turkey, when we went (perhaps unluckily) out a tournament that has both a cup and way to qualify for the Champions League, to a lame defeat away at Hull - who were ultimately relegated during what is possibly the worst Premier League for some time. Added to that, the capitulation to an Aston Villa side in the FA Semi final managed by Tim Sherwood; a side whose limitations were so easily exposed by a ruthless Arsenal at the weekend. Indeed an Arsenal who did to Villa what they did to us at the Emirates a couple of months earlier.

But the worst was still to come in the form of Crystal Palace nearly doing at Anfield what Stoke did a week later. That hammering against Stoke was coming. I could feel it, anyway. The team had been playing as if they no longer wanted to out on the pitch, during a 10-game run, remember, in which it was still possible to win a trophy and even pip United to top 4 (given how badly they ended the season). Something wasn't right. Gone was the carefree and joyous football of 2013/14. Now it was too many players out of position. Too many issues and distractions off the field. Players not playing for the manager. Nor the fans. That was clearly evident.

It's this level of performance which has left doubts in my mind about Rodgers. It's my worry that the ending of this season is carried over into next season, with devastating results for top 4 ambitions/Europa league progression. Indeed, the other nagging doubt I have over Brendan is Europe. His European record over the 2 seasons he played in both European tournaments is shocking. We definitely need coaching staff that have vast European experience. We don't. And it shows. I would love us to take the Europa League serious next season because it could be our best chance of qualifying for CL. But our recent European form suggests another half-hearted effort, with a perfunctory effort at rotating the side and getting the best out of the squad.

Perhaps Brendan needs to bring back that defensive coach he jokingly said he'd hired a few months back, during the bright third of our season. Remember that couple of months? Or he needs to find that formula again of outscoring our rivals. If we cannot win by scoring more goals, I'm still doubtful we'll achieve it by keeping a tight defence. His 3 seasons thus far suggest that we will keep on conceding. And yes, they will mainly be of the comic variety, too, I imagine. Even when we got close to winning the title, the goals we conceded were hilariously bad.

On the other hand, I find the vitriol towards Rodgers quite shocking. One thing is for sure, judging purely by internet fandom reaction, this could be Rodgers' last transfer window as Liverpool manager. Hope not. If it is, we know we've had a terrible autumn & an early winter. Feels like we are a couple of bad results away from a full-on Hodgeson reaction from the supporters who go the game. If, or when, he loses the Anfield crowd, we can write off another season and embark on yet another rebuilding job.

Plus ca change...once more at Anfield.
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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #307 on: June 2, 2015, 07:23:45 PM »
Yep. If Alex Ferguson was hired tomorrow I'd support the man and I genuinely mean that. Ultimately if Rodgers does well then the club does well and that is all I want.

If Brendan can transform the team that lost 6-1 to Stoke into one that gets into the Champions League, which is the MINIMUM expectation, he'll have done an incredible job and proven his worth. He has to be backed big time by the owners now. They have to prove they're not time wasters now. They've shared the burden of responsibility for this season gone by allowing him to continue I reckon. They have to step up.
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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #308 on: June 2, 2015, 08:05:10 PM »
Putting the name calling of those that have a different perspective but have the club's best interest at heart I'm astonished at the numbers here that suddenly think things will change for the better without serious personnel/organisational restructure. Insanity.

Stop hiding behind the superfandom® cloak and admit your hubris is nothing more than dogma, blind faith or cultizm. The very real truth is that if Southampton accept our bid for Clyne I think we go to having THE MOST EXPENSIVE defense in Europe world football. Given it's more porous than an Aldi Earl Grey with no long term improvement after 3 years, I don't know whether it is laughable? a crying matter? I just dunno anymore.

Well, strap on your seatbelts and get ready for yet more superfluous voxpop hubris from Brendan just before defining games followed by more demoralising performances/defeats. I'm happy to support someone unconditionally if they show the signs of having the minerals (which I did for BR until the run of games after the 2015 United/Arsenal defeats). I still hate that we lost Rafa. This guy is no Rafa- maybe in future but not now. I don't think we have the time or the funds to just sit back and watch this experiment unfold. In fact most experiments have a hypothesis, a plan: what was ours again?
« Last Edit: June 2, 2015, 08:12:38 PM by Johns_Barn »

Offline GregCharrua

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #309 on: June 2, 2015, 08:43:15 PM »
As I posted earlier in this thread my feelings about Rodgers are uncertain because I've seen us play brilliantly and I've seen us play absolute dogshit. After last summer's transfer dealings the water is muddied even further.

Well, this summer and next season will be the one that shows us what Rodgers and the club's staff is made of. Hoping for some big changes behind the scenes, but perhaps just a change of strategy is what is needed. The dire performances at the end of the season aside, there was plenty of positives to take from last season if you look for them and don't just go digging for the negatives.

I think its a 'gamble' worth playing, though. What if we threw it all away for an unknown future, but all that was needed was a reassessment and some changes being made? I just hope the fanbase can give him a good number of games at the start of the season before baying for blood.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #310 on: June 2, 2015, 08:51:17 PM »
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #311 on: June 2, 2015, 08:52:01 PM »
If Brendan can transform the team that lost 6-1 to Stoke into one that gets into the Champions League, which is the MINIMUM expectation, he'll have done an incredible job and proven his worth. He has to be backed big time by the owners now. They have to prove they're not time wasters now. They've shared the burden of responsibility for this season gone by allowing him to continue I reckon. They have to step up.

I'm interested to know what you'd like to see from them?
Do you want them to breech FFP, increase our % of wages to turnover ... basically would you like to see them gamble on the financial future of the club?
Because they can't just throw money at the club; not that I think they want to - but even if they did - it would be extremely hard for them to do that.

Now you can take the view that FFP is breachable - you could also take the view that CL qualification pays for it all and you have to invest to get a return

I'm just genuinely interested because the gap to the top 4 has always been much bigger than it looks and I've never been totally convinced as to what the owners should do about it?

Offline TSC

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #312 on: June 2, 2015, 08:57:20 PM »
So as you where then.  At the very least surely they need to look to change the structure that's been in place to oversee transfers and signings, call it the committee or whatever.  It's gonna take a hell of a lot more than a couple of uninspiring signings to even begin to look to change things.

Offline RedKenWah

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #313 on: June 2, 2015, 09:05:32 PM »
well at least they've put this particular speculation to bed in a decent-ish sort of time so kudos to them.

I'll come and say i am surprised about it though, i would have thought that they would have let him go but they have decided to keep him. I will also now refer to what i said earlier in that now they have the makings of creating their own drama for the following season... all it will take next season is the first loss to happen and then the drama will unfold.

I suppose now only time will tell with the incoming signings and hope that they improve the team. I'd hope that they'd abandon the premiership proven thing as well as i don't think it pays any more dividends than going further afield...


Offline edeyj

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #314 on: June 2, 2015, 09:14:17 PM »
My guess is that Brendan has convinced them that purchase of a striker or two and we get back to the levels of 2013/14. Of course that would resonate with some of our "senior" fans posting on here (no names no pack drill!!).

Anyway, we now have to get behind Brendan and hope that next season is more like 2013/14 than 2014/15.

Time to enjoy the summer if the weather ever improves. When is the first pre-season jamboree?

Offline peachybum

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #315 on: June 2, 2015, 09:17:30 PM »
I'm glad that the speculation's over and the club can get on with trying to identify what went wrong last season and what lesson's can be learnt. I doubt we'll find out much of what's been discussed. There's no quick way to re-establish ourselves in the top 4 and as title challengers. There's 4 massive obstacles in front of us and we aren't likely to find ourselves with the third best player in the world very often. They've chosen to stay the course. Fair enough iMO.

I was always 50/50 over Brendan after last season. He had a bad season as a manager. He can't afford another and he'll know it. I really hope he can put it right, start the season well, lift some of the negativity and get some faith back he's lost.

I also don't see how backing Brendan means that FSG don't give a shit as they're selling the club anyway blah blah blah. Don't we want owners that back managers? That don't shit the bed and make dramatic change season to season? I always thought that's what we wanted.
I wanna be like Jurgen Klopp

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #316 on: June 2, 2015, 09:33:38 PM »
Righto...

Lets go again, with a different dynamic that a club legend is moving/shifting/we are dying..

Can we move on now

As has been pointed out somewhere else..FSG could have said BR gone..new man, give him two years etc ad nauseum..

No, BR is their man so THEY are gonna be judged on his performance too,

Bravo
« Last Edit: June 2, 2015, 09:36:49 PM by Greyfox »

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #317 on: June 2, 2015, 09:40:09 PM »
not impressed by our clubs ambitions. never seen us play such dire football and waste so much money in the transfer market as this season.

still grumpy our talisman was sent packing and our transfer targets are fucking awful. am fuming actually, really wanted Rodgers to succeed here. just think we need experience in the club as am sure as hell positive FSG have got none with football. if Kenny got the sack for bagging a trophy then seriously, wtf?

not a popular opinion round these boards am sure but wanted to get that off ma chest.
- all in my opinion of course -

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #318 on: June 2, 2015, 09:44:43 PM »
not impressed by our clubs ambitions. never seen us play such dire football and waste so much money in the transfer market as this season.

still grumpy our talisman was sent packing and our transfer targets are fucking awful. am fuming actually, really wanted Rodgers to succeed here. just think we need experience in the club as am sure as hell positive FSG have got none with football. if Kenny got the sack for bagging a trophy then seriously, wtf?

not a popular opinion round these boards am sure but wanted to get that off ma chest.

Previous years' footie shite then?

"Never seen such dire football"...

..You've haven't been watching properly over the years previous. Talisman gone, yep...radical thought...talisman shadow cast over the Club with the farewell tour now gone,

As Andy@Allerton would say...Liverpool Football Club, not Gerrard FC. Players come and go, magnificent and mediocre. Club does pn
« Last Edit: June 2, 2015, 10:01:58 PM by Greyfox »

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Re: End of season round table debate (*)
« Reply #319 on: June 2, 2015, 09:54:10 PM »
Previous years' footie shite then?

it was amazing greyfox, cant fault it. it has been said by a few that just about any manager could've got results with those 2 at our frontline. our defence was bad though and this was never addressed over the summer. I wasn't happy with most of our signings and wait with baited breath this summer. is only my opinion here but its not looking too rosy this year either with our targets, plenty of time yet though.

its not all Rodger's fault, the coaching staff, losing our doctor and sturridge injury is all salt on the wound.

speaking with matching going fans, im not alone, most of us our raging about whats happened. I know some folk go over board after a bad result on here and get rightfully shot down, think some people are afraid to speak their minds on rawk for fear of ridicule. just how I feel though, angry.
- all in my opinion of course -