Author Topic: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review  (Read 35177 times)

Offline Filler.

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #160 on: September 26, 2013, 09:18:44 PM »
I had wondered if the 2nd half of the book might be a bit sadder, and half expected many long passages of Bill cleaning the cooker etc. There was that one gloriously long passage where he cleans the car and mows the lawn, going on for about 10 pages or so, but that was it really, and it's a really important part of the book. What I hoped for was a bit of Sir Bob's years, and we got a good chunk of that. I particularly loved the passage where Bill's talking about the lead up to the '81 European Cup Final, and talking about Breitner and his pre and post match comments and how Sammy Lee marked him out of the semi final v Bayern. Also found it moving to read about Shankly leaving early for the train back home from Wembley during the 78 European Cup Final. On his own. On the train. Back home. Smiling.

Can't recommend the book highly enough, and I think I'll be asking every Red I ever meet... 'have you read 'Red or Dead?'.


What I regret tho, is not reading it with lfchistory.net infront of me. I read it on the bus, and in my lunch break. I don't know when I first saw the link on each of the games details where you can view the table, as it was then, for any game during the season, but that's a colossal undertaking, and came as no surprise that Peace and the lads who've built that fantastic site, and liverweb of course were in contact, referencing things. What was a surprise was to see Wooltonian thanked for this post:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=29832.msg448422#msg448422


I remember it well.

So if David Peace does drop in here on occasion... we'd love to see and hear those conversations with Harold Wilson on youtube, and the interviews that John Roberts gave you. Thanks for writing this great book.

Offline saoirse08

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #161 on: October 4, 2013, 12:58:37 PM »
Another nail in the coffin of DJ Taylor's theory that both the working class and women - the main readers of modern fiction - will have difficulty accessing Red or Dead. The Missus, both a female and working class, and also a prodigious reader of contemporary fiction, is half-way through the novel and loves it. And she continually praises the the brilliance and readability of Peace's prose. Peace's prose. With all that repetition. Odd that. Very odd that.


What I regret tho, is not reading it with lfchistory.net infront of me. I read it on the bus, and in my lunch break. I don't know when I first saw the link on each of the games details where you can view the table, as it was then, for any game during the season, but that's a colossal undertaking, and came as no surprise that Peace and the lads who've built that fantastic site, and liverweb of course were in contact, referencing things. What was a surprise was to see Wooltonian thanked for this post:

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=29832.msg448422#msg448422


Thanks for pointing this post out. Read about it the acknowledgments too but had never come across it till now.
“The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It’s the way I see football, the way I see life.”

"The old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear."

Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #162 on: November 15, 2013, 05:34:01 PM »
Finished it this morning. Before it came out I said, if Peace manages to get into the DNA of the great man I would be thrilled. He did that and some more. Shankly feels like family now, fleshed out, a real person. Don't normally read sport books because I feel the drama happens on the pitch, court, ring and writing about it seems superfluous to me.

I'm a fan of Peace, read all his books apart from the Japan series. I get why he uses repetition in his books, it accurately captures the inner thoughts of driven single-minded people like Clough and Shanks. In the beginning it felt like it was being overdone. But I soon learned to read the repetitive parts like a hymn, skim reading the oven cleaning after a defeat, you know the words, you know what is gong to happen, how he'll deal with it. After that it got a lot easier. Loved the chats with Matt Busby and Don Revie.

The real drama and most enjoyable bits for me from a novelistic point of view come in the second half of the book, the interviews with Harold Wilson, Scottish TV, chats with fans at the local cafe. He feels like a real person I know rather than a historic icon now. The man was a saint, and I love him.
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline Agger

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #163 on: November 28, 2013, 12:02:26 AM »
Just finished it and I can only agree with everyone else. Fantastic book and very inspiring.

Thinking this might be a good christmas present, wonder if you have to be a Liverpool supporter to really appreciate it. Otherwise you might find it a bit of a struggle with the seasons written very similar.
If there was ever a reason for human cloning, Steven Gerrard is it.

Offline MichaelA

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #164 on: December 23, 2013, 10:33:00 AM »
If you've not read this yet, why not? Make sure it's on your Christmas list - otherwise you're a wool ;)

Offline CRAZY HORSE EMLYN

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #165 on: January 22, 2014, 12:41:33 PM »
Held on until Xmas for this.
Now very gutted, Mr Shankly has just retired.
Don't know what's going to become of Liverpool FC either.

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #166 on: July 31, 2014, 08:12:24 PM »
Just finished this. I deliberately kept away from all reviews and RAWK-focus as I wanted to read it without prejudice. I tend to do this with most things as I want to be surprised, intrigued or disappointed without being prompted to do so.

First off, the OP by Michael A is great - a real homage to the book

As for the book, it's like nothing I've ever read. As times 50 pages whistled by without missing a beat. I was living those results, clenching my fists or screwing my face with equal measure depending on the outcome. It got me totally absorbed and I couldn't wait for my next sitting to read how the season ends or how the match will go. I also loved the insights into the training, the match days, the club politics, the man's politics and his moral purpose. All these things have largely been common knowledge for a while but looking at it through the prism of a novel made it all so much more intense but also richer. I always thought I was a student of the club and its history, but I'm now way more informed.

However, it would be disingenuous of me to say I loved it from start to finish. It was attritional at times with the repetition. I started off enjoying the quirk but it then became something I was 'getting through' in the slower chapters. Don't get me wrong, I appreciated the style and I felt it reflected Shankly's own methodology in his preparations and lifestyle - do, repeat, do, repeat, do, repeat...but while marks for artistic style were high I could have happily seen less of it at times.

But ultimately I'm so pleased to have read it and would recommend it to anyone who wants to know more about the man and his significance in the club's history and present. It makes you regard Shankly as more than a statue with messianic draw. It makes realise this was an extraordinary man with a clear vision and driving mantra that ran through everything he did...keep it simple.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #167 on: August 13, 2014, 11:11:40 PM »
For London RAWKites (and intrepid ones living elsewhere) this could be interesting. David Peace talking to Mark Lawson on 19th August.   
http://bit.ly/1oJFEDU
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Offline John C

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #168 on: August 13, 2014, 11:50:37 PM »
Did I hear rightly that Neil Atkinson from TAW is meeting him in Liverpool Thursday 14/8?

Offline MichaelA

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #169 on: August 16, 2014, 02:51:59 PM »
Off to see him at the Edinburgh International Book Festival this evening, with our very own royhendo.

Offline MichaelA

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #170 on: August 30, 2014, 12:51:46 PM »
It's the Book At Bedtime on Radio Four this week. :wave

If anyone missed this, PM me. ;)

Online Red_Mist

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #171 on: August 31, 2014, 09:11:28 AM »
Finally took this down off the book shelf last week and settled in with it. I'm a slow reader, only 200 pages so far, but it's completely sucked me in. Pure poetry as others have said.

I won't review it until I've finished it, but one of the many things that struck me early on is how easily your perception of a clubs' standing can change, especially Liverpool's! He transports you so well back to those early years that you suddenly see Liverpool Football Club for what they were back then and it all makes sense. The true size of the challenge Shanks faced. You wonder how we'll ever beat the likes of Wolverhampton Wanderers, Preston North End, Sheffield Utd, Ipswich Town and the dreaded Leicester City......let alone how on earth we could hope to win at Leeds, Arsenal, Manchester United, ....Everton! Then suddenly we're hammering the likes of Inter Milan. I mean, i know the history as well as the next person, but I've never been transported back in time so well. Blows your mind to wonder how incredible it must have been. To be there from the start. If i could have one wish..... :)

Offline MichaelA

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #172 on: July 25, 2015, 12:56:06 PM »
I was wondering about the Red Or Dead screenplay earlier this morning, and by coincidence discovered that I posted this review two years ago.

If anyone has an IMDBPro account, can they spill the beans for us mere mortals? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3144152/

Offline MichaelA

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Re: #SHANKLY100 - David Peace: 'Red or Dead' - The RAWK Review
« Reply #173 on: August 1, 2019, 12:22:47 PM »
Facebook just reminded me that this was published six years ago today. You've all read it, right?