Topic: FSG (*)

[jooneyisdagod]

What we need is a couple of seasons in mid table and watch how many tourists and locals are desperate for tickets then.

To be fair, the previous Australasian tour came on the back of the H&G days, the deplorable period under the owl faced one and the disappointment of the King's second reign with Brendan's own getting off to an average start with a season's finish of 7th. And Liverpool filled out the MCG and the stadiums in Jakarta and elsewhere.

[Draex]

What we need is a couple of seasons in mid table and watch how many tourists and locals are desperate for tickets then.

I know some people want to erase the Owls tenure from their memory, but it happened. We all went through it together, demand was still exactly the same.

[CraigDS]

Not at all - they can buy TV subscriptions and merchandise.

This is about the ground and local kids and access.

Simple.

So what you're saying it... "Foreigners, we want your money so we can build a great team and be competitive, but we don't want you to buy tickets as that's just for us locals".

Cake and eating it really isn't it?

[L666KOP]

We're not taking your money though are we? FSG  (the club) are. All that we (me a local) are saying is take your money somewhere else so my 17 year old lad ,can stop scrambling around trying to get a ticket and build some sort of loyalty. I gave up after the other yanks were fucked off  but my lad loves the  footy and can he fuck get a ticket without all kinds of begging and favours and that type of thing . Im fucked if im being accused of being xenophobic, im pro scouse and pro my lad.
I couldn't give a fuck about yer bans. Weather you like it or not positive dicrimination is needed towards the locals or you might aswell build a new stadium in donefuckingal and it will serve the same purpose there.

So when I was travelling 40 miles to Anfield on match day hoping to pick up a spare on the off chance and having to take a ticket at 3 times face value of a local who wanted to make a few quid, rather than go to the game himself does that make me less of a supporter ?

Paying 400 quid for CL final tickets when I've attended every home game, and paid the same for aways ?

Like Chops said, accent only identifies your location, actually getting off your arse and going to the match proves your support. And whether you walk up, or get on a plane a supporter is one that attends the game.

[Alf Garnett]

I know some people want to erase the Owls tenure from their memory, but it happened. We all went through it together, demand was still exactly the same.

No it wasn't, nothing like the demand.

[Graham Smith]

So what you're saying it... "Foreigners, we want your money so we can build a great team and be competitive, but we don't want you to buy tickets as that's just for us locals".

Cake and eating it really isn't it?

Almost.

Be part of this but the balance is being adjusted inside the ground. Not saying no visitors, just saying less and replaced by locals.

What's wrong with that?

[jooneyisdagod]

Almost.

Be part of this but the balance is being adjusted inside the ground. Not saying no visitors, just saying less and replaced by locals.

What's wrong with that?

What is the right balance according to you then ?

At what point would you say, alright locals, we have enough of you in here. We need to have some seats for all the foreigners as well. At what point would you say that ?

[Graham Smith]

So when I was travelling 40 miles to Anfield on match day hoping to pick up a spare on the off chance and having to take a ticket at 3 times face value of a local who wanted to make a few quid, rather than go to the game himself does that make me less of a supporter ?

Paying 400 quid for CL final tickets when I've attended every home game, and paid the same for aways ?

Like Chops said, accent only identifies your location, actually getting off your arse and going to the match proves your support. And whether you walk up, or get on a plane a supporter is one that attends the game.

Sorry, the touting issue is a red herring and while it needs to be addressed by FSG (have they the will?) - I'm not talking about being a better or worse supporter, just that someone young, local and financially dispossessed deserves the chance to get into their community's football club more than a visitor.

I'm not apologising for trying to be part of a move to redress the balance a bit.

[CraigDS]

We'll see - this is about a dedicated full-time team of people hunting down the tickets being touted by online companies.

Will they be that bothered bearing in mind they've already sold the ticket?

I guess it depends how big the problem is.

It's it a decent amount of tickets, then the club is potentially missing out on between £9.25 and £14.75 from each one a tout sells on because they could possibly be returned tickets the club could then sell on for those profits.

If they are ST's then the club is potentially losing out on the difference between a ST ticket price and a general sale ticket price, which I think is also between £9 and £14.

[Graham Smith]

What is the right balance according to you then ?

At what point would you say, alright locals, we have enough of you in here. We need to have some seats for all the foreigners as well. At what point would you say that ?

First thing is for FSG to be honest about the numbers, then address things like tickets in wrong names and touting.

I'd say general admission should be at least 70% locally biased.

[Graham Smith]

I guess it depends how big the problem is.

It's it a decent amount of tickets, then the club is potentially missing out on between £9.25 and £14.75 from each one a tout sells on because they could possibly be returned tickets the club could then sell on for those profits.

If they are ST's then the club is potentially losing out on the difference between a ST ticket price and a general sale ticket price, which I think is also between £9 and £14.

You're forgetting (or more likely ignoring) that touted tickets get into the hands of visitors rather than locals. And what do visitors do more than locals?

[Alan_X]

First thing is for FSG to be honest about the numbers, then address things like tickets in wrong names and touting.

I'd say general admission should be at least 70% locally biased.

Do you have figures on what it is at the moment?

[CraigDS]

Almost.

Be part of this but the balance is being adjusted inside the ground. Not saying no visitors, just saying less and replaced by locals.

What's wrong with that?

I have zero issue with the balance be adjusted, never have and have said as much in previous threads on the issue - however I have no idea what the current balance is.

However I do have an issue with on one hand saying 'take your money elsewhere' (as I replied to) and on the other wanting OOTers to spend, spend, spend on the club.

[Anfield Ed]

Almost.

Be part of this but the balance is being adjusted inside the ground. Not saying no visitors, just saying less and replaced by locals.

What's wrong with that?

Everything is wrong with that. Just because you are lucky enough to be born  and raised in Liverpool doesn't make me or any other non liverpool resident less of supporter of this football club that we all love.

I do accept that it is important that the young locals are integrated into the club and given the best opportunity to attend games. Because the lifeblood of the club is the locals, that is 100%.

However this does not take away the fact that Liverpool FC is not just for the locals but for every single Liverpool supporter world-wide who loves this club.

[SlowRap]

When I go over to Barcelona and I fancy watching them whilst there, I have no problem knowing that I'm paying more than the locals, and if part of my ticket goes towards subsidising a ticket of a kid from Barcelona then I'd be more than happy to pay extra. It's a one off trip for me so I don't mind paying that little bit extra.

Now if I was a Barca fan and travelled from Liverpool each week to watch them play, then I'd obviously have a fan/membership card and expect parity with the locals. I think maybe the answer is to make LFC membership a bit harder to buy?

[CraigDS]

You're forgetting (or more likely ignoring) that touted tickets get into the hands of visitors rather than locals.

Do you have figures for this?

[Graham Smith]

Do you have figures on what it is at the moment?

No one has. But you will get every local matchgoer tell you about every area of the ground having pockets of clear visitors - and again not saying go and stay away - just saying redress the obvious imbalance.

And before we get the usual "Well without the numbers this is a debate going nowhere" you know and I know this is an issue and the balance is wrong - or do you think it is fine?

[Pistolero]

I do accept that it is important that the young locals are integrated into the club and given the best opportunity to attend games. Because the lifeblood of the club is the locals, that is 100%.

How do you suggest that happens then?....

[Graham Smith]

I have zero issue with the balance be adjusted, never have and have said as much in previous threads on the issue - however I have no idea what the current balance is.

However I do have an issue with on one hand saying 'take your money elsewhere' (as I replied to) and on the other wanting OOTers to spend, spend, spend on the club.

In a redrawn balanced ground why would these supporters stop spending on the Club?

All that is being said is that visitors will get less access to tickets, so they wait a year or two more to get that visit - they can still buy the bedspreads and ponchos.

[KiNki]

How do you suggest that happens then?....

a stadium big enough for all, so anyone, local or non, can rock up to the ground and get in.

[CraigDS]

In a redrawn balanced ground why would these supporters stop spending on the Club?

All that is being said is that visitors will get less access to tickets, so they wait a year or two more to get that visit - they can still buy the bedspreads and ponchos.

That isn't 'all that is being said' though. It is by you maybe, but it wasn't last night and it wasn't by the guy I replied to just up above. It was 'take your money elsewhere'.

[Graham Smith]

Everything is wrong with that. Just because you are lucky enough to be born  and raised in Liverpool doesn't make me or any other non liverpool resident less of supporter of this football club that we all love.

I do accept that it is important that the young locals are integrated into the club and given the best opportunity to attend games. Because the lifeblood of the club is the locals, that is 100%.

However this does not take away the fact that Liverpool FC is not just for the locals but for every single Liverpool supporter world-wide who loves this club.

Don't disagree with that but the Club is the people and the Club is rooted in its community - people have invested their support because of what the Club is and its culture and history - you can't keep that culture by diluting it, and atmosphere is part of that culture that needs to be protected.

I'm sorry, whether you like it or not this Club is called Liverpool - it isn't a franchise.

[jooneyisdagod]

First thing is for FSG to be honest about the numbers, then address things like tickets in wrong names and touting.

I'd say general admission should be at least 70% locally biased.

That's a decent start and a reasonable number as well. I'll just say my piece in a short post before I go back to working.  I think the number you poster 70% at least to me being a foreign supporter is entirely reasonable. I'm totally behind the idea that local support should be encouraged, especially local youth support.

Perhaps your idea of what would be an ideal situation isn't that far away from mine and dare I say it, looks quite similar. I think younger fans should have some way of getting concession tickets. Perhaps a student concession of some sort. That's just one suggestion.

But it's the manner in which the message has come across that is concerning to me. Your battle isn't against some OOT/OOC. Most of them here will tell you that it is important that young fans get to watch their team. No one as far as I can see is standing here and demanding their right to buy tickets off touts. Yet, the message seems too often directed at us. I'm happy to jump into the pot for one out of the 30% of Anfield tickets, as I'm sure many others are. But the manner in which that message has been said here has been quite divisive and exclusionary.


Edit: Do you have any figures on what the current balance is ? What would your estimate be ? And I'm including those OOT supporters that are there no matter what as some people have alluded to in the 'local' list because as far as I understand the gripe is that many foreign fans just come and buy shit and fuck off while not contributing to the club's atmosphere whereas these 'supporters' clearly do and have done so for many years.

[KiNki]

All that is being said is that visitors will get less access to tickets

All that should be said is that we need a bigger ground to accommodate all. 

[Graham Smith]

Do you have figures for this?

Ha ha, you're really clutching at straws here now.

[Graham Smith]

That isn't 'all that is being said' though. It is by you maybe, but it wasn't last night and it wasn't by the guy I replied to just up above. It was 'take your money elsewhere'.

I've got a mandate to represent Merseyside supporters - that's what I am doing.

If others take a more hardline approach then I am not going to criticise that unless it steps over a boundary - locals have had enough.

[John C]

And what is your metric for this? Is it purely geographical? Over the years I've met lads aho have supported us for 10,20,30,40 odd years and live miles away, are they to be binned off to accomodate local kids.

Absolutely mate. The lad that sits to our right comes from Hull, every game, cups included, through good & bad. He's seen some shite over the years but he isn't selective when he comes, he just travels and supports. The people to our left are locals and 50% of the time different people are in their seats, obviously using the clubs exchange scheme to decide when it suits them to support. The same applies to where my best mate sits in his ST - he never knows who is going to be next to him due to the locals being "selective". Oh and he's scouse but lives in Warrington, hmm.

But of course I'm desperate to see young lads there like me & my mates did years ago.

[CraigDS]

Ha ha, you're really clutching at straws here now.

Was a genuine question.

You said work was underway on the matter, so was actually interested if you happened to have any figures on it.

[Graham Smith]

All that should be said is that we need a bigger ground to accommodate all. 

FSG have no intention of undermining their business model by doing anything like that (although they should).

So, in the meantime we make do and mend.

[KiNki]

I've got a mandate to represent Merseyside supporters - that's what I am doing.

If others take a more hardline approach then I am not going to criticise that unless it steps over a boundary - locals have had enough.

Make sure the 'hardline approach' is directed where it should be, with the owners and policy makers, not the people who come from belgium or birkenhead.

[Graham Smith]

Was a genuine question.

You said work was underway on the matter, so was actually interested if you happened to have any figures on it.

I would say from initial research, that the figures being touted by online companies would be close if not above 1000 a game.

[Graham Smith]

Make sure the 'hardline approach' is directed where it should be, with the owners and policy makers, not the people who come from belgium or birkenhead.

It is positive discrimination in favour of locals, not anti OOT bile.

And I come from Birkenhead!

[Alan_X]

No one has. But you will get every local matchgoer tell you about every area of the ground having pockets of clear visitors - and again not saying go and stay away - just saying redress the obvious imbalance.

And before we get the usual "Well without the numbers this is a debate going nowhere" you know and I know this is an issue and the balance is wrong - or do you think it is fine?

No I don't Graham. The support needs to keep it's local character and heritage. But without the numbers it's hard to say what should be done and how that could be implemented.

[CraigDS]

I've got a mandate to represent Merseyside supporters - that's what I am doing.

If others take a more hardline approach then I am not going to criticise that unless it steps over a boundary - locals have had enough.

Great, but it no good saying something which isn't true - and 'that's all that is being said' is exactly that.

It's certainly what you're saying here, and I actually agree with that to some degree, however there are a lot more going way too far on the matter and causing what is probably a point which has the backing of the majority of the support into a very divisive issue.

[Pistolero]

It is positive discrimination in favour of locals, not anti OOT bile.

And I come from Birkenhead!

wool

[Graham Smith]

Great, but it no good saying something which isn't true - and 'that's all that is being said' is exactly that.

It's certainly what you're saying here, and I actually agree with that to some degree, however there are a lot more going way too far on the matter and causing what is probably a point which has the backing of the majority of the support into a very divisive issue.

Tough life isn't it. It is going to be devisive because lots who post on this site are from a good distance from the ground - they are going to have less access.

It's a football Club in Liverpool - locals should have the dominant opportunity to attend the games at affordable prices to the detriment of visitors.

[CraigDS]

Tough life isn't it. It is going to be decisive because lots who pst on this site are from a good distance from the ground - they are going to have less access.

That isn't what is the devisive point though. If you read the thread most of the 'OOTers' agree with the fact that local support needs to be in the ground and that the issue possibly needs to be addressed.

It's a football Club in Liverpool - locals should have the dominant opportunity to attend the games at affordable prices to the detriment of visitors.

Which isn't 'take your money elsewhere'.

[jooneyisdagod]

Tough life isn't it. It is going to be decisive because lots who pst on this site are from a good distance from the ground - they are going to have less access.

It's a football Club in Liverpool - locals should have the dominant opportunity to attend the games at affordable prices to the detriment of visitors.

Again, most OOTs agree about the local support's importance. Why are you constantly banging the drum that visitors should not have the 'dominant opportunity'. Can't see a single post on the thread that says that visitors should have the dominant opportunity. In fact most of them agree with you that locals should have the dominant opportunity. How many 'visitors' have you engaged with ? As far as I'm concerned, local youths especially getting in the ground is not a divisive issue. In fact, there is a broad consensus on it. It's being turned into a divisive issue with some divisive language.

[Graham Smith]

That isn't what is the devisive point though. If you read the thread most of the 'OOTers' agree with the fact that local support needs to be in the ground and that the issue possibly needs to be addressed.

Which isn't 'take your money elsewhere'.

Circular argument now - I'm not saying that.

I'm saying they get less access to the ground and can carry on spending all they want.

[Graham Smith]

Again, most OOTs agree about the local support's importance. Why are you constantly banging the drum that visitors should not have the 'dominant opportunity'. Can't see a single post on the thread that says that visitors should have the dominant opportunity. In fact most of them agree with you that locals should have the dominant opportunity. How many 'visitors' have you engaged with ? As far as I'm concerned, local youths especially getting in the ground is not a divisive issue. In fact, there is a broad consensus on it. It's being turned into a divisive issue with some divisive language.

I'm not saying they have a dominant opportunity (although Thomas Cook give them a better chance as locals don't use TC).

I'm saying visitors should get a lesser chance via positive discrimination to get locals young and old into the ground ahead of them, but not extinguishing the ability for visitors per se.