Topic: Booooooooooo

[DutchRed]

It's all in the ticket prices really. People working hard to be able to fork out the ticket prices and for me it's just becoming a bit boring, if I'm honest. It's all about big money.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

F*** me...!

We've had a succession of managers who've arrived with a 'five year plan' and have asked us to be patient.
..to wait until it all comes good.

Is there nobody out there who's understanding of the point of view that there are those who are sick n tired of being served up shite while they wait?

I am not sure you know what being served up shite is, if you are talking about LFC...  Being served up shite is having your jobs exported overseas or being paid the same wage for 40 years while your employer's executives have been made millionaires.   

Being served up shite also smacks of some entitlement as if you are god given royalty, expected to be served up gold on a platter.  It is the worst type of colonization.   If you cannot see:

1) Henderson's, Allen's and Can's work ethic
2) Stevie giving up his body to block crosses
3) Coutinho trying to slice through four players to create
4) Sterling muscling off players twice his size
5) Balotelli (while not a great fit for our team) trying to develop new habits
6) Kolo & Lucas staying fit and ready for the team when needed

Then there is not much anyone can do for you...  We are not guaranteed results here at LFC, this is what made last year so special.  They took their game to the other and said what are you going to do about it.  This year, we do not have the scoring and are more disorganized.  This does not mean everything is shite.

It means, we are back where we started after the poor start in year 1, except our young players have more experience, growth in the game, and tactical awareness to sort out problems the game presents....

Stop with self-pity masking as high expectations...  it does no one any good.

[BCCC]

If you're pissed off with the club's owners then don't give them the money, don't go. Don't pull that argument and then boo the team.

[Elf Pistolero_7]

I am not sure you know what being served up shite is, if you are talking about LFC...  Being served up shite is having your jobs exported overseas or being paid the same wage for 40 years while your employer's executives have been made millionaires.   

Being served up shite also smacks of some entitlement as if you are god given royalty, expected to be served up gold on a platter.  It is the worst type of colonization.   If you cannot see:

1) Henderson's, Allen's and Can's work ethic
2) Stevie giving up his body to block crosses
3) Coutinho trying to slice through four players to create
4) Sterling muscling off players twice his size
5) Balotelli (while not a great fit for our team) trying to develop new habits
6) Kolo & Lucas staying fit and ready for the team when needed

Then there is not much anyone can do for you...  We are not guaranteed results here at LFC, this is what made last year so special.  They took their game to the other and said what are you going to do about it.  This year, we do not have the scoring and are more disorganized.  This does not mean everything is shite.

It means, we are back where we started after the poor start in year 1, except our young players have more experience, growth in the game, and tactical awareness to sort out problems the game presents....

Stop with self-pity masking as high expectations...  it does no one any good.

Great post mate.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

The club treats supporters like consumers, not supporters.

In the corporate world if I don't like something then I give someone else my money, and I am entailed to give negative feedback to the corporation in question.

That attitude now prevails in the stands, at anfield and elsewhere.

There's a vicious cycle at work here, and i really can't see anyway it's getting broken.

Be specific.  Who at the club?  Is it possible to hold a position that consumers deserve better and still work for the club?

What you appear to be upset is called Neoliberalism.  Here are the step to financializing any outcome:

Step 1: Get Consumers to Open Up -------------------------->  collect information via data mining, interviews, and hidden information
Step 2: Identify Centers of Profitability ---------------------->  identify how much money can be made via financializing all products (profit)
Step 3: De-regulate ----------------------------------------------> changes the rules using individualism, competition and within groups' culture
Step 4: Privatize --------------------------------------------------->  own the revenue streams privately (once begun almost impossible to reverse)
Step 5: Cut Social Supports -------------------------------------> foster dependency, create new relations and fund them, cut off old ones
Step 6: Protect Profits -------------------------------------------->  whatever it takes to maintain profit (Exxon --- create monopoly power)

Who are the club are neoliberals would be a more apt question.

[Narwin Dunez]

It's not all in the ticket prices, it's all in the c*nts they let in.

I have never been flush for cash, not living in Liverpool means my ticket is instantly doubled every week when you take train fare and daytime food/drink into consideration. I still go. Have done since I was 18, Europa League games under Rafa and Roy and Kenny, league games under Rafa Roy, Kenny and Brendan, and now CL games under Brendan too.

I can't afford to go. I couldn't afford to use my paltry student loan for the tickets in years gone by either. I chose the worst Uni accomodation, ate the shittest food, forwent nights out to save for the ticket and train, all whilst we were good, garbage, exciting and dull.

This season is the first I've sold my tickets, and it's not 'cos we're not as good as last season, because it's still better players and better football than I have seen in the past. It's because of the fans. I spend every single 90 minutes hating the people sitting around me, and every single journey home seething that I didn't turn round and lamp the boo'ers and the whingers.

And I'm not saying I'm better than anyone else, BUT, I add to the atmosphere. I'm a goon who sings every song, even if I'm not in the Kop, shouts for every FK, Penno, Corner or otherwise. Claps the team on and off, waves his scarf (red + white before anyone starts ) and goes into Homebaked and a local boozer before the game to throw a bit of money Anfield's way.

But the bile that is brought up by the shit fans who have jumped on the bandwagon last year and haven't left yet, well, they actually depress me.

And when I sell my ticket, who is it going to? The most reliable person I can find, but who knows what they're like in the ground.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The ticket prices do have an affect on the c*nts that come into the ground

[Narwin Dunez]

Actually maybe it does a bit, it makes the berks who would be berks anyway be even bigger berks because they expect to be entertained like a fucking opera or play.

But then they leave 5-10 minutes before the end! They wouldn't even get to see what happened to the swans in the lake or whatever happens at the end of an opera.

Coming to Anfield isn't a chore, it's a privilege, and every fan has a JOB TO DO. Not to sit there like a lemon, to be the 12th man and scare the opposition. Do that or fuck off.

edit - apologies for the swearing but even thinking about the state of some of our fans puts me in an awful mood.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Actually maybe it does a bit, it makes the c*nts who would be c*nts anyway be even bigger c*nts because they expect to be entertained like a fucking opera or play.

But then they leave 5-10 minutes before the end! They wouldn't even get to see what happened to the swans in the lake or whatever happens at the end of an opera.

if you have to pay £60 for something that was £40 5 years ago and was better quality then to be honest I can't blame someone for booing, we aren't supporters to them we are customers to the club now, and customers have the right to express their disappointment with a poor product so they can't have it both ways

And yeah don't get the whole leaving early, guess the traffic isn't as bad when it's a few thousand at the opera

[Narwin Dunez]

But Brendan and the lads aren't responsible for ticket pricing. It's not the subs fault we have to pay through the nose. If we're going to boo at all (which we shouldn't) it should be at the Directors Box surely? Not taken out on the players.

Sorry pal we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Rome-77]

Ground was full of c*nts wearing half and half scarves today, all merrily clicking away with their camera phones. Why would anyone expect anything different?

spot on

[Lush is the best medicine...]

But Brendan and the lads aren't responsible for ticket pricing. It's not the subs fault we have to pay through the nose. If we're going to boo at all (which we shouldn't) it should be at the Directors Box surely? Not taken out on the players.

Sorry pal we'll have to agree to disagree.

youre right but that's not how it works out in reality

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Actually maybe it does a bit, it makes the c*nts who would be c*nts anyway be even bigger c*nts because they expect to be entertained like a fucking opera or play.

But then they leave 5-10 minutes before the end! They wouldn't even get to see what happened to the swans in the lake or whatever happens at the end of an opera.

Coming to Anfield isn't a chore, it's a privilege, and every fan has a JOB TO DO. Not to sit there like a lemon, to be the 12th man and scare the opposition. Do that or fuck off.

edit - apologies for the swearing but even thinking about the state of some of our fans puts me in an awful mood.

The swearing detracts from your points, it makes you seem more unreasonable even though many of us know you are reasonable.

Another issue is generalizing and attributing behaviors to larger groups.  Not every one who leaves early is necessarily a c**t, nor do we all show the same understanding of what being a 12th man means. 

Attending a game at Anfield is a privilege, but there has to be a better way to communicate what it means to be a LFC supporter rather than weak generalizations of money by association, and club pathos memes.  I do not have the answer here.  Nonetheless, broad generalizations and weak associations minimize your much larger and very important points.

[DutchRed]

The real point, which sadly rings very true, is that the club don't really want us to be there. Which isn't a Liverpool problem, nor a Premier League problem, it's present in a small league like the Dutch one too. Obviously they like getting 60 quid from 45,000 people, but they'd much rather we didn't turn up to save them cleaning and police costs. Sure, we'd be welcome to come for a programme, a Scouse pie and a cup of tea for which you could get two full dinners at any chippy in the Anfield area. Moreover we'd be welcome to buy the full kit and other items making you look like a Muppet(on second thought though, couldn't the scumbags just fuck off to Liverpool ONE and/or Williamson Sq. because there's much more space there)? The sheer hunt for maximum revenue has long since overtaken the supporters' well-being as the club's primary target and anything to rake in some more will be considered.

The club wants customers over supporters, preferably customers forking out a tenner for a new half and half scarf every game, and they're getting it their way.

[Redman0151]

The swearing detracts from your points, it makes you seem more unreasonable even though many of us know you are.

Another issue is generalizing and attributing behaviors to larger groups.  Not every one who leaves early is necessarily a c**t, nor do we all show the same understanding of what being a 12th man means. 

Attending a game at Anfield is a privilege, but there has to be a better way to communicate what it means to be a LFC supporter rather than weak generalizations of money by association, and club pathos memes.  I do not have the answer here.  Nonetheless, broad generalizations and weak associations minimize your much larger and very important points.

If you leave the game early without a very valid reason (emergency/missing your train) then you're a pretty poor supporter, especially when your team are 2-1 down pushing for an equaliser. The people who leave 5-10 minutes early just so they can avoid traffic and get back on the motorway are a shower of cocks. Was made up loads of them missed the penalties against Boro

[Trendisnotdestiny]

if you have to pay £60 for something that was £40 5 years ago and was better quality then to be honest I can't blame someone for booing, we aren't supporters to them we are customers to the club now, and customers have the right to express their disappointment with a poor product so they can't have it both ways

And yeah don't get the whole leaving early, guess the traffic isn't as bad when it's a few thousand at the opera

Our behavior should not be contingent upon the inflated prices of tickets. 

I thought the notion that we are Liverpool we are different rung true --- meaning we behave a certain way because we have thought it through, its best for us and the club... we do this every time because it has meaning (YNWA) etc...

[Narwin Dunez]

The swearing detracts from your points, it makes you seem more unreasonable even though many of us know you are.

Another issue is generalizing and attributing behaviors to larger groups.  Not every one who leaves early is necessarily a c**t, nor do we all show the same understanding of what being a 12th man means. 

Attending a game at Anfield is a privilege, but there has to be a better way to communicate what it means to be a LFC supporter rather than weak generalizations of money by association, and club pathos memes.  I do not have the answer here.  Nonetheless, broad generalizations and weak associations minimize your much larger and very important points.

I honestly can't tell if you're agreeing with me or that was a dig. I must be tired.

[DutchRed]

The swearing detracts from your points, it makes you seem more unreasonable even though many of us know you are.

Another issue is generalizing and attributing behaviors to larger groups.  Not every one who leaves early is necessarily a c**t, nor do we all show the same understanding of what being a 12th man means. 

Attending a game at Anfield is a privilege, but there has to be a better way to communicate what it means to be a LFC supporter rather than weak generalizations of money by association, and club pathos memes.  I do not have the answer here.  Nonetheless, broad generalizations and weak associations minimize your much larger and very important points.

Leaving early isn't making a good show really. I know sometimes there are valid reasons to leave, but I also know nobody left the ground a second early against Man City in April.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

I honestly can't tell if you're agreeing with me or that was a dig. I must be tired.

Translation: You are reasonable, but your use of c**t lost me... no worries

Its been fatiguing 24 hours.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Our behavior should not be contingent upon the inflated prices of tickets. 

in reality it does, if you feel that they're taking the piss then you will complain more loudly and more vocifierously

[Trendisnotdestiny]

in reality it does, if you feel that they're taking the piss then you will complain more loudly and more vocifierously

I am not sure how any analysis of any game we have played this year constitutes the club, players, or coaches as taking a piss.

Evidence would need to be offered, in my reality.

[adamski29]

Great post that. This part especially rings true. I don't like to engage in grass is always greener nostalgia too much, but 30 years ago you'd get the lads winning a Cup Final and coming to celebrate with the fans in some shithole pub in the city. No airs or graces - a genuine connection between supporters and players. Between players and the club. Between the club and the city.

Nowadays, I doubt most of them would waste their piss on you if you were on fire. Surrounded by security, so far removed from normal life and the people who inhabit it. The closest they get to a meaningful connection is a 140 character tweet typed up by their publicist, or an interview they've been forced into by their sponsor.

I took one of the kids autograph hunting after training last season, spent over an hour waiting in the rain only to see sports car after sports car leather it past the gathering minions who'd braved the conditions. The few that did throw pity on us didn't look up once, didn't say a word other than the occasional grunt, and zoomed away again 5 seconds later. Still, breadcrumbs eh?

That's what amuses and saddens me in equal measure with the posters on here who react to any criticism of their favourite player like you've just walked into their house and slapped their dog with your cock. Some of these are worse than fucking One Direction fans on Twitter.

Someday they'll realise, he's just not that into you.

  this cheered me up

[flatiron]

I'd like to thank those who praised my first post in years.

Reading the other posts it looks like everyone is trying to give some complicated reason why some fans choose to boo when really it is as plain as the nose on your face.

yes we are treated badly by the club, yes we pay our hard earned money and make sacrifices to go to the game and yes we are alienated from the players wearing our club shirt.

But the boos were just because the fans were pissed off.

If we'd had played well and won then the ticket price and being treated like mugs by the club would not have stopped us clapping players off who do not give a toss about us.

[Always_A_Red]

But Brendan and the lads aren't responsible for ticket pricing. It's not the subs fault we have to pay through the nose. If we're going to boo at all (which we shouldn't) it should be at the Directors Box surely? Not taken out on the players.

Sorry pal we'll have to agree to disagree.

Im going to start by saying I don't agree with booing but how on earth can you say that Brendan and the lads are not responsible for ticket pricing? For someone constantly in the ticket threads I'd assume that you'd know that the 2 align together more than anything else. In terms of wages, they account for 64% of Liverpool FCs overall turnover. So every time you see Sterling get a new contract from £30k to £100kp/w or Sturridge jumps up to £120k p/w, you can be 1000% sure that the way the club will pay for it is through increasing ticket prices.

Obviously we're getting onto something here that can go much deeper (and probably already has) but I don't want to derail the thread. I just thought that this point needed making

[Narwin Dunez]

Yes but they don't set the prices. The board could have used the increase in TV revenue to lower prices a bit.

In an ideal world yes, the players and manager earn far less and we get in for 20 quid a pop, but even if the players and manager earned 20% of what they do, you think ticket prices would come down? I think dividends would go up.

The players and manager are just pawns.

[NealFrom25Yards]

We've had a succession of managers who've arrived with a 'five year plan' and have asked us to be patient.
..to wait until it all comes good.

Is there nobody out there who's understanding of the point of view that there are those who are sick n tired of being served up shite

Save your pity for old buggers like me who statistically don't have many more 5 year plans left in them. 

[DutchRed]

Im going to start by saying I don't agree with booing but how on earth can you say that Brendan and the lads are not responsible for ticket pricing? For someone constantly in the ticket threads I'd assume that you'd know that the 2 align together more than anything else. In terms of wages, they account for 64% of Liverpool FCs overall turnover. So every time you see Sterling get a new contract from £30k to £100kp/w or Sturridge jumps up to £120k p/w, you can be 1000% sure that the way the club will pay for it is through increasing ticket prices.

Obviously we're getting onto something here that can go much deeper (and probably already has) but I don't want to derail the thread. I just thought that this point needed making

There's  £3bn going in Premier League TV rights alone. Annually, that is. We're not talking about sponsorships or even about Champions League money.

For the 2012-13 season our income was just above 200m, match day revenues not even forming a quarter of that. Our PL revenues for last season actually were so much higher than in 13/14 that we could have let in everybody for free and still would have left with the same income. With sponsor money ever on the rise and CL money back at Anfield too, it's not like the fans HAVE to pay for everything. They choose to.

[Always_A_Red]

Yes but they don't set the prices. The board could have used the increase in TV revenue to lower prices a bit.

In an ideal world yes, the players and manager earn far less and we get in for 20 quid a pop, but even if the players and manager earned 20% of what they do, you think ticket prices would come down? I think dividends would go up.

The players and manager are just pawns.

Ok. So how do the club pay the wages without increasing the ticket prices?

Yes I actually do think that ticket prices would be lower because 5 years ago we played Real Madrid at home in the CL in the last 16 and my ticket was £35. This season in the group it was almost 60. 5 years ago, wages were lower and tickets were lower. Go back to the late 90's and the players were on much less and tickets were £20-30 in the PL.

Its ok saying its all the clubs fault and saying that the board should just take a hit and let the fans off, but you're being pretty naive with that thinking. It'd take a wage cap from the PL for it to halt ticket prices and that's never going to happen. I guarantee in the next 10 years, there will be a player who will earn £500k a week in the game (not at LFC mind) and we'll see ticket prices increase to £80-100 at Anfield during that time.

And people want to keep the traditions of the club and remember what it built upon when Shanks was here? Its dead mate. Done. The sad thing is, it's only going to get worse.

[gregorio]

If you leave the game early without a very valid reason (emergency/missing your train) then you're a pretty poor supporter, especially when your team are 2-1 down pushing for an equaliser. The people who leave 5-10 minutes early just so they can avoid traffic and get back on the motorway are a shower of cocks. Was made up loads of them missed the penalties against Boro

100% agree

[Narwin Dunez]

I don't think we're in too much disagreement mate, I agree with you that wages should be lower, and that it would take a salary cap league wide, but I was saying that the board could and should have offset the many more millions we get from TV and CL for wages, not that they were ever going to.

Still, booing is for sillies.

[Redman0151]

I don't think we're in too much disagreement mate, I agree with you that wages should be lower, and that it would take a salary cap league wide, but I was saying that the board could and should have offset the many more millions we get from TV and CL for wages, not that they were ever going to.

Still, booing is for sillies.

The offset should also come from the FA and Premier League who are raking in billions on a sport that they're supposed to be running for the fans

[scouse neapolitan]

Fans leaving early was ridiculed by the Kop throughout the 70s...When the "miss the traffic" brigade used to leave the ground 10 minutes early, it was always greeted with "Sit down you bums, sit down you bums....etc"............
No excuse for going home early unless you've got a ggood excuse

[-HH-]

I wonder how many of those booing will stand up and admit they were wrong when the club does something stupid, sacks Brendan and we end up going backwards like after we sacked Rafa. Once Hodgson appeared suddenly everyone knew it was a mistake to sack Rafa - slagging off the board at the time rightly and ignoring that they were amongst the dissenting voices so that not enough people actually argued that decision at the time. The grass was greener - one bad season enough to undo everything that came before. I'm starting to worry that Brendan may not even get that long.

I've always been an advocate of managerial stability - you pick your man and you back him for a number of seasons, even (in fact especially) when the going isn't so good. Generally, apart from splashing silly amounts of money it is where success has been obtained particularly as money has made the game almost unrecognisable.

And that is all before you even get to the general gobshitery of booing the team or the manager for not making the changes as you would have. Any manager who takes a team from 7th, 8th, 7th to 2nd in the league clearly knows what he is doing more than anyone sat in the stands does - should he not be able to make a substitution you don't understand? Or is that only allowed when we're in good form? When you sing you'll never walk alone do you not feel massively hypocritical knowing you can't abide a poor run of form without publicly booing the manager or players?

The notion of supporting when the team is doing well will never die. The notion of supporting through the wind and the rain? Dead, thanks to the kind of c*nts booing the subs on Saturday.

[BCCC]

"If you can't support us when we lose or draw then don't support us when we win."

Shanks' eloquent way of saying fuck off to the boo boys.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I wonder how many of those booing will stand up and admit they were wrong when the club does something stupid, sacks Brendan and we end up going backwards like after we sacked Rafa. Once Hodgson appeared suddenly everyone knew it was a mistake to sack Rafa - slagging off the board at the time rightly and ignoring that they were amongst the dissenting voices so that not enough people actually argued that decision at the time. The grass was greener - one bad season enough to undo everything that came before. I'm starting to worry that Brendan may not even get that long.

I've always been an advocate of managerial stability - you pick your man and you back him for a number of seasons, even (in fact especially) when the going isn't so good. Generally, apart from splashing silly amounts of money it is where success has been obtained particularly as money has made the game almost unrecognisable.

And that is all before you even get to the general gobshitery of booing the team or the manager for not making the changes as you would have. Any manager who takes a team from 7th, 8th, 7th to 2nd in the league clearly knows what he is doing more than anyone sat in the stands does - should he not be able to make a substitution you don't understand? Or is that only allowed when we're in good form? When you sing you'll never walk alone do you not feel massively hypocritical knowing you can't abide a poor run of form without publicly booing the manager or players?

The notion of supporting when the team is doing well will never die. The notion of supporting through the wind and the rain? Dead, thanks to the kind of c*nts booing the subs on Saturday.

the problem with that approach is that you can back the wrong man and set you back years if not decades

[Always_A_Red]

the problem with that approach is that you can back the wrong man and set you back years if not decades

But we haven't got the wrong man. Have we?

[Redman0151]

the problem with that approach is that you can back the wrong man and set you back years if not decades

Who is the supposed right man then?


A manager like Ancelotti or Mourinho is never going to come to Liverpool were they're told by the owners to buy players with resale value and focus on developing them. The only realistic possible alternative I see is Rafa, and he's hated by Ayre and FSG wouldn't like him so I can't see it happening

[Pheeny]

But we haven't got the wrong man. Have we?

No

[John C]

No

Thank you
And to the rest, no way is this going to become a speculation or right/man wrong man thread.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

But we haven't got the wrong man. Have we?

it was more a general point not slating rodgers