Topic: The unravelling. A team, manager and fans shafted by transfer incompetence

[Mutton Geoff]

So, we've moved on from crisis, Brendan's job, Gerrard, transfers and Suarez to Grobbelaar?

i call that an improvement Ken

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

excuse me even ex players deserve respect remember that or we might think you are the knob posting bile.

Respect as a player but none as a person. What's wrong with that?

[Ken-Obi]

i call that an improvement Ken

Come on mate, you don't enjoy the company of Pitchfork & Torches FC?

[lindylou100]

Even if you believe Grobbelaar innocent and that he let in some outrageous goals by mistake, it makes him criticizing mignolet laughable when he's sitting in one of the most fragile of glass houses.

[Scouse_12]

Regardles of what Grobbelaar did/didn't do..

Mignolet's not good enough for the level that we aspire to be, or at least, what I HOPE we aspire to be.

[Red Genius]

Regardles of what Grobbelaar did/didn't do..

Mignolet's not good enough for the level that we aspire to be, or at least, what I HOPE we aspire to be.

Well fuck me, hold the world spinning, we need to stop and ask what you hope to aspire to.... he's what we have, so instead of fucking stabbing him left right and centre, wanna get behind the lad? Because that's who we have between the sticks for now and as far as i know the transfer window is not open.... eh?

[Scouse_12]

Well fuck me, hold the world spinning, we need to stop and ask what you hope to aspire to.... he's what we have, so instead of fucking stabbing him left right and centre, wanna get behind the lad? Because that's who we have between the sticks for now and as far as i know the transfer window is not open.... eh?

Stabbing him left, right and centre?

We have him, doesn't mean we should be thrilled about that fact.  He's not good enough for a team aiming to compete for the league title and the European Cup consistently. I imagine that's what most of us supporters aspire our club to be, as well as the manager.
For those targets, Mignolet is simply not good enough.  Just because someone states that fact or is critical of Mignolet, doesn't mean that they're not supporting the club or not 'getting behind the lads.'

[Red Genius]

Stabbing him left, right and centre?

We have him, doesn't mean we should be thrilled about that fact.  He's not good enough for a team aiming to compete for the league title and the European Cup consistently. I imagine that's what most of us supporters aspire our club to be, as well as the manager.
For those targets, Mignolet is simply not good enough.  Just because someone states that fact or is critical of Mignolet, doesn't mean that they're not supporting the club or not 'getting behind the lads.'

Alright genius, what we gonna do now? I'm giving you Brendan Rodgers power, what next lad? For the next game... even if Mignolet was a medusa stone.... what do we do?.... he's what we've got, so we have to work with that.... no hang on, i tell you what lets have a bitch, whine and moan yeah? Because that's gonna make it all better....

Honestly lad, you're a waste of space on here. Come January, express a better option with all that massively informed opinion you like to share, but for now, that's what we have.... are you a Liverpool supporter? or just another fucking customer, get behind the lad for fuck sake, you think he needs folk like you making him more nervous between now and then?

Nah - that's right... he don't, so why the fucking hell do you do it?

[Scouse_12]

Alright genius, what we gonna do now? I'm giving you Brendan Rodgers power, what next lad? For the next game... even if Mignolet was a medusa stone.... what do we do?.... he's what we've got, so we have to work with that.... no hang on, i tell you what lets have a bitch, whine and moan yeah? Because that's gonna make it all better....

Honestly lad, you're a waste of space on here. Come January, express a better option with all that massively informed opinion you like to share, but for now, that's what we have.... are you a Liverpool supporter? or just another fucking customer, get behind the lad for fuck sake, you think he needs folk like you making him more nervous between now and then?

Nah - that's right... he don't, so why the fucking hell do you do it?

I don't think you understand what a forum or a purpose of a forum is clearly. We're here to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our team with fellow supporters.
Someone stating that Mignolet is not good enough is one of the many opinions that someone might have.
Criticizing the obvious flaws in our team doesn't mean you're not 'getting behind the lads'.

"you think he needs folk like you making him more nervous between now and then?"
Fairly certain he doesn't really read RedandWhiteKop's forum on a regular basis, and even if he does, someone's opinion, that too a fan's is not going to make him nervous.
And if some supporter criticizing him is going to make him nervous, boy oh boy we DEFINITELY need someone else between the sticks.
Fortunately enough, I doubt that's the case. But that also doesn't mean that he's good enough to be the #1 at the club.

[Red Genius]

No mate i know what a forum is all about, i spent about 10 years playing in a top youth team coached by guys who now feature in the premier league, i'm asking you to substantiate your opinion....

All you've done is make a statement, not given it any weight... so lets talk like adults yeah? explain why, and i'll tell you where you're going wrong okay fella?

[Scouse_12]

No mate i know what a forum is all about, i spent about 10 years playing in a top youth team coached by guys who now feature in the premier league, i'm asking you to substantiate your opinion....

All you've done is make a statement, not given it any weight... so lets talk like adults yeah? explain why, and i'll tell you where you're going wrong okay fella?

Think it is quite obvious why he isn't good enough, but I'll specify it for your sake then..

His handling is not upto the mark. His reflexes are not top draw, or what you'd expect of a goalie competing for the very very best trophies. Let's put it this way, he is NOT one of the top 10 goalies in the world.
Most importantly, he is NOT an imposing figure or doesn't take command of his area at all. You need all those things to be a top class goalie, and not only do you need all those things, you need to be excellent in all those things..

Mignolet is a good goalie, a decent goalie. No one's denying that.
But he isn't good enough for a team who wishes to challenge for top honours.

[Red Genius]

Okay i tell you what mate, let's trade him in for Casillas... eh? oh no wait hang on the TRANSFER WINDOW ISN'T OPEN SO WE CAN'T

Do you fucking get it now??? This is what is what we have? Wanna hammer him, go for it pal.... that aint ever gonna help him is it? but don't worry, you can pick up your brownie badge when you come back and say "yeah i said he wasn't good enough"

You're a fucking idiot pal, and i'm done here, for that reason. I'm reported my own post... so you can get to fuck, sick to death of talking to absolute idiots like you, who don't recognise the fact, he's here, he's our man, he's what we have, we cant change that right now...so fucking hell are you a supporter or a wanker?

[artanis]

Our problem is not the transfers.
We actually bought some good players. Some of them need coaching and I think Rogers in time can improve them. Rogers' problem though is his tactics. He does not seem to realize that the equation has changed. We cannot play expansive football and outscore the opposition. We muse be compact, solid, have good protection infront of the back 4 (read Lucas and Allen or Can) and just gring out results like 1-0 or 2-1. In away games to decent opposition (read as any top 10 team) set up just not to get beat and if you nick an away win, celebrate like you just won the CL.
Just grind out results. Use Gerrard only as an impact sub.
So basically Rogers is a good coach and a le to develop players but he has to make a 180 degree turn on his tactics and approach.

[GBF]

If Rodgers isn't given money in January it's a very bad sign.

There is always money, he can sell and use the money. 

[Historical Fool]

He's the first to be caught on tape talking about throwing matches and then later describing it as a double bluff or whatever excuse he tried to give. It was seedy. From memory it was found he had taken bribes but couldn't be proved he had fixed matches or something of that ilk. He ended up getting damages of £1 didn't he and made to pay his own costs so he obviously didn't walk away with his reputation enhanced.

You can make your own judgement on him Geoff, I'll make mine.

It was a defamation suit.. you make it sound like he was charged or something. Clearly he wasn't. And the nominal damages don't go towards reputation in any way or form - in fact the award of nominal damages normally means that the damage done by the defamation to his reputation is negligible (instead of the other way around).

[Timbo's Goals]

Read the Rodgers piece with his quotes about not buying players in Jan. my suspicious mind wonders if he hasn't already had word from above that no money will be spent and he has to fix it on the training ground.
Although we obviously shouldn't be spending big after last summer, I do think bringing in nobody when you are playing poorly is a mistake. Someone fresh gives the fans some optimism and it can lift the players as well.

There's no way that in January we're not bringing in a mobile front man as replacement/alternative/partner for Sturridge.

Rodgers may well have said we're not but it simply will not be the case.

[GIPPO77]

so, where do we get this mobile front man, without spending £25M+ ?

[Historical Fool]

so, where do we get this mobile front man, without spending £25M+ ?

We have 3 of them out on loan

[L666KOP]

There's no way that in January we're not bringing in a mobile front man as replacement/alternative/partner for Sturridge.

Rodgers may well have said we're not but it simply will not be the case.

And if we don't ?

[LFCsupporter]

We have 3 of them out on loan

Origi, Aspas and who else? Ibe?

[harryc]

Origi, Aspas and who else? Ibe?

Assaidi

[Timbo's Goals]

And if we don't ?

It means I'm talking through me arse again as fucking usual

 

Like every other stupid, pompous, self-righteous twat on here.

 

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

There's no way that in January we're not bringing in a mobile front man as replacement/alternative/partner for Sturridge.

Rodgers may well have said we're not but it simply will not be the case.

Well if FSG won't give him any money then he won't. Unless he thinks he can get good money for his portrait on EBay...

[L666KOP]

It means I'm talking through me arse again as fucking usual

 

Like every other stupid, pompous, self-righteous twat on here.

 

Do you honestly see us spending 'money' on anything other than a short term loan, or a sweetener to get Origi here ?

[Draex]

Do you honestly see us spending 'money' on anything other than a short term loan, or a sweetener to get Origi here ?

Origi won't be coming here - both Rodgers and their Lille manager has said he is staying till the end of the season.

I could easily see us trying to offload Borini and if he goes we'd bring in a top striker - that would leave us next season with Sturridge, Origi, Balotelli, Lambert + Another.

We won't see any movement in untill we offload the fringe players.

[L666KOP]

Origi won't be coming here - both Rodgers and their Lille manager has said he is staying till the end of the season.

I could easily see us trying to offload Borini and if he goes we'd bring in a top striker - that would leave us next season with Sturridge, Origi, Balotelli, Lambert + Another.

We won't see any movement in untill we offload the fringe players.

We've painted ourselves into a corner with Borini though haven't we ?

He's the type of striker we need, and to be fair he should be getting more time. But if we do he'll think he's part of the set up and probably not leave.

Personally I think we'll be allowed to buy players, but only with money we generate ourselves. I think the owners will be of a mind that we make use with what we've got.

Summer will see changes for sure, if we miss top 4 I can see FSG wanting to bring someone in to help out, whether it's a DoF, or whatever other acronym suits. How that will pan out given Brendan's refusal to work with one in the past I don't know ?

[TSC]

Seems some were on the booze until the wee small hours on here dishing out the abuse.

[killer-heels]

Summer will see changes for sure, if we miss top 4 I can see FSG wanting to bring someone in to help out, whether it's a DoF, or whatever other acronym suits. How that will pan out given Brendan's refusal to work with one in the past I don't know ?

I reckon Rodgers would see a hit to the ego as a better approach than a hit to his CV, if he got sacked.

[L666KOP]

I reckon Rodgers would see a hit to the ego as a better approach than a hit to his CV, if he got sacked.

Very likely.

I'd certainly hope FSG don't make his position untenable. He needs the offer of a helping hand rather than the bullet.

If he refuses the help then fair enough, but let's at least offer it.

[mkferdy]

He needs the offer of a helping hand rather than the bullet.

Agree with this its how they present it to him and dress it up. One thing they should be able to do is add spin to make it sound positive 

A question I would be asking if I was the owners is around the conditioning of the players. Why are they so unfit? Yes last season was a draining physically and mentally and many players went to the world cup but so did other teams players. I have never seen a Liverpool side look so off the pace. We are exhausted every second half. If it's by design to peak in the second half of the season then he has got it wrong. With so many new players to integrate into the side with champions league to contend with we should be fitter.

[Brentieke]

There's no way that in January we're not bringing in a mobile front man as replacement/alternative/partner for Sturridge.

Rodgers may well have said we're not but it simply will not be the case.

Thing is Timbo, if you're FSG, would you trust these fools to spend the money in January wisely?

I can see a scenario very much like the the Winter of 2011/12, where Kenny desperately needed a finisher and yet no money was forthcoming.

[Hank Scorpio]

Honestly believe these are the testing times which separate good managers from great managers.

Great managers learn from the experience and are better for it.  You see this type of malaise less and less with experienced great managers.

[joe ®]

Thing is Timbo, if you're FSG, would you trust these fools to spend the money in January wisely?

I can see a scenario very much like the the Winter of 2011/12, where Kenny desperately needed a finisher and yet no money was forthcoming.

And given how the summer's budget was completely wasted, I think they'd be right not to throw good money after bad.

[TSC]

Agree with this its how they present it to him and dress it up. One thing they should be able to do is add spin to make it sound positive 

A question I would be asking if I was the owners is around the conditioning of the players. Why are they so unfit? Yes last season was a draining physically and mentally and many players went to the world cup but so did other teams players. I have never seen a Liverpool side look so off the pace. We are exhausted every second half. If it's by design to peak in the second half of the season then he has got it wrong. With so many new players to integrate into the side with champions league to contend with we should be fitter.

A few have posted this & I rem POP used to allude to it; the training regime focusing on being fit for the 2nd part of the season.  That's fine if you can at least keep pace with the others in the meantime.  Not like us where you're trying to play catch up 'cos you've been knackered in the first half of the season. 

Of course as well as arguably looking knackered we've been absolute gash too which doesn't help.

Time to do some work and forget about it.

[Pistolero]

And you know this how? Stop talking rubbish or post some evidence.

Exhibit A) the last transfer window

Exhibit B) the one before that..

Exhibit C) ...the one before that

[red_til_i_die]

Think the problem at the minute is the mentality of the players. They've gone from thinking their able to beat anyone last season to saying a draw against Ludogrets when your 2-1 up and then give away another late goal isn't that bad a result.

I'm all from trying to find a positive out of a negative but they need to get a fighting spirit and winning attitude back

[Titi Camara]

So that is why it is folly to claim we spent X on these and we could have bought those. It just doesn't work like that.

I just find it an interesting comparison, it's up to you if you want to draw conclusions.

The thread is about our current transfer business, I've listed all the business our current manager has overseen and placed that against comparable business (from a monetary point of view) from probably the best side on the planet right now.

Now these particular players were not available to us but it shows what sort of calibre of player is available for this amount of money.

I've never said these players were obtainable, I'm just trying to ask some questions about our transfer business and putting two opposing strategies next to one another. At no point have I said this is right or that's wrong.

No idea what this is supposed to prove, but we could have had C Ronaldo for £5m, and Bale for the same. Thommo put the stops on the Ronaldo move, and the board refused to spend that much on an unproven youngster in Bale when Rafa wanted to sign him. (See also, Walcott, Ramsey and half the Man City squad)

Again I'm not trying to prove anything. More trying to spark debate about our current strategy in the transfer market.

[djphal]

Thing is Timbo, if you're FSG, would you trust these fools to spend the money in January wisely?

I can see a scenario very much like the the Winter of 2011/12, where Kenny desperately needed a finisher and yet no money was forthcoming.

correct

I think this is the main reason why Origi has been mentioned, I wouldnt trust them with 40/50 million for a top striker either

[Ken-Obi]

Thing is Timbo, if you're FSG, would you trust these fools to spend the money in January wisely?

Hmm.

[Brentieke]

Honestly believe these are the testing times which separate good managers from great managers.

Great managers learn from the experience and are better for it.  You see this type of malaise less and less with experienced great managers.

Rafa Benitez and Gerard Houllier both went through an almost identical time.

A title charge, failure, an absolutely shambolic transfer window and then a season where the football was unwatchable and results horrific.

This is a car crash of a season. Absolutely everything that could possibly go wrong, is.

Now this the key.

Brendan Rodgers is not Rafa Benitez nor Gerard Houllier. He is an absolte baby in managerial terms.

He's had to contend with the most heartbreaking end to a season since 1989, a World Cup, his captain having the weight of the world on his shoulders, the loss of one of the 2 greatest players in the club's history, the loss to injury of his main striker, a shambolic transfer window, the integration of 8 new players into the squad.

He's had to contend with Champions League football for the first time in his career. He's had to learn how to rotate for the first time in his career.

He's had to contend with all of that at once. There are few managers in world football history who could do that. None in our recent past, that's for sure.

People now have a choice. You either think Brendan is the right man for the job or don't. If you do- and after what we saw last season I cannot understand how someone can't- then you take all those factors into consideration and you support him and excuse his mistakes. If you don't, and thus last season for you had nothing to do with him, then you use all of that as a stick to beat him with.

I'm firmly behind him and said in the Summer that for me this was a free pass season for him. He should be allowed to try things, make mistakes, learn from them without pressure coming from the fanbase.

But the club need to help him. And until they change the amateurs in the transfer committee, Brendan will be hamstrung and the club will not move forwards.