Author Topic: The unravelling. A team, manager and fans shafted by transfer incompetence  (Read 586028 times)

Offline QC

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3160 on: November 29, 2014, 06:52:24 pm »
You really can't see why coming in here to post that on the back of a win might wind people up? Have you ever met people?

Well obviously I see the error of my ways now. I thought post-match analysis could extend to more than just expressions of happiness; but clearly not.

Offline HighSix

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3161 on: November 29, 2014, 06:53:29 pm »
The wider point was that the attack was weak today, and we were given a lifeline by the defense. But sadly the "support the team my way or else" mob is in full swing here, so there's no discussion just abuse.

With our recent results, following an away CL fixture & against Stoke today was always going to be a scrap. You definitely have a point with Lambert as was highlighted by Coutinhos, Hendersons & Sterlings reactions towards him at various points today but he did his job well today & without him probably would have just one point.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3162 on: November 29, 2014, 06:55:28 pm »
Well obviously I see the error of my ways now. I thought post-match analysis could extend to more than just expressions of happiness; but clearly not.

Aside from the question of why you aren't happy with a win, which is sort of the whole point of football, it's just a matter of timing. Why on earth would you decide that this was the right time for having a go at our players? The biggest problem we've seen in this side recently hasn't been anything to do with tactics or personnel, it's been about confidence, and right when they get a decent shot in the arm, just when we're on the up, there you are to slap us all in the face.

It speaks volumes about what sort of person you are.
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Offline QC

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3163 on: November 29, 2014, 06:59:47 pm »
Thats a lazy analysis. Today showed that with lucas in the DM position the opposition don't get a free run at our defence and we retain possession a lot better. When Gerrard plays there the centre just can't hold. It would be interesting to see if we retain the defensive solidity if lovren were to come in for Toure (thats not to say Toure hasn't been great). 

It's really lazy to say our transfers are shit because the new players don't play when it's dam clear most could make a positive contribution. Its been the lack of rotation in certain positions that have really cost us. Thats down to the manager as it's been clear up until recently that the team wasn't being picked on form and it has damaged the confidence & moral of both those who are playing and those who aren't. Personally I would have preferred Can for Lucas and lallana for coutinho to link up with Lambert and give us an attacking outlet in the final 10 mins, and both are new players.

I disagree, as i feel Rodgers rotated well in the earlier stages of the season; particularly in relation to the midfield (Markovic, Lallana, and Balotelli were incorporated/debuted into the team carefully). But i'll probably respond in further detail later when the current furore has died down.

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3164 on: November 29, 2014, 07:02:09 pm »
Aside from the question of why you aren't happy with a win, which is sort of the whole point of football, it's just a matter of timing. Why on earth would you decide that this was the right time for having a go at our players? The biggest problem we've seen in this side recently hasn't been anything to do with tactics or personnel, it's been about confidence, and right when they get a decent shot in the arm, just when we're on the up, there you are to slap us all in the face.

It speaks volumes about what sort of person you are.

You continue to resort to personal abuse over a discussion over football in a forum. Surely that says more about your own character. I've already admitted that the timing wasn't great, but you continue to dig. Furthermore, you take it as a slight on the unused summer transfers, but ignore the fact that the post endorses the performances of those who contributed.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3165 on: November 29, 2014, 07:03:44 pm »
You continue to resort to personal abuse over a discussion over football in a forum. Surely that says more about your own character. I've already admitted that the timing wasn't great, but you continue to dig. Furthermore, you take it as a slight on the unused summer transfers, but ignore the fact that the post endorses the performances of those who contributed.

You continue to moan about "abuse". It's simply an observation. Stop crying.
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Offline lindylou100

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3166 on: November 29, 2014, 07:04:50 pm »
I disagree, as i feel Rodgers rotated well in the earlier stages of the season; particularly in relation to the midfield (Markovic, Lallana, and Balotelli were incorporated/debuted into the team carefully). But i'll probably respond in further detail later when the current furore has died down.

But thats my point, at earlier stages of the season we weren't in crisis and against tottenham our decisive goal was by moreno, a new player who mow for some reason can't play. In the past month or so in the games we've played, who have been the ones who were singled out for their poor contribution? it certainly wasn't the new players (bar lovren) thats for sure.

Offline kkhaku

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3167 on: November 29, 2014, 07:09:55 pm »
It's telling that our first win occurs when the majority of the new signings were resigned to the bench; and even then, our weakest link was Lambert.

It's clear that whoever was in charge of transfers failed completely. They wasted the platform we established last season, and wasted the funds of one of the best players in the world. Unless we uncover another Suarez or Torres, it is very unlikely we will have the opportunity we had this summer again. It's clear another rebuilding job is required. None of our strikers are fit for purpose, and we're still relying on an Toure. But as you often advocate, we can only support the team. There's nothing that can be done except: hope we can stay within contention for the top 4 until January; hope the owners fix the regime in charge of transfers; and hope that the owners are willing to buy two the strikers we desperately need.

All in all i think it's very clear the downturn is down to flawed transfer business.

I won't argue you with about the transfer business being flawed, because it's obvious we haven't replaced Suarez properly, and the rest of the transfers have yet to prove themselves. However, before going to the extent of labelling it a complete failure, let's remember that Lallana, Lambert,  Manquillo and Moreno have done fairly well as individuals, and Emre Can hasn't done much to discount his potential either. Lovren and Balotelli are the ones that spring to mind as failures, and even in their cases, a third of the way into the season is a bit early to use the words 'complete failure'.

Additionally, to use the victory against Stoke to illustrate poor transfer business seems an attempt at trying to twist facts to suit an agenda. The one new signing that was on the pitch is a 32 year old striker that just played three 90-minute games in a week, alone up front, scored in two games, and set up the winner in the 3rd.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3168 on: November 29, 2014, 07:10:50 pm »
I disagree, as i feel Rodgers rotated well in the earlier stages of the season; particularly in relation to the midfield (Markovic, Lallana, and Balotelli were incorporated/debuted into the team carefully). But i'll probably respond in further detail later when the current furore has died down.

You appear to be grasping straws of negativity after a much needed win,  now i am not asking you to support the team the way i do,  because christ i could not support it the way you seem to do, we won, enjoy it, move on, grab a beer, a joint,  a person of your choice, or whatever it takes to amuse yourself in some way.

my original comment was a joke. ;D :o
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Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3169 on: November 29, 2014, 07:31:24 pm »
Tell you what, Rickie Lambert has done enough to earn a starting spot even when Balotelli returns, good player that lad, underrated.

Offline rob1408

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3170 on: November 29, 2014, 07:38:20 pm »
Tell you what, Rickie Lambert has done enough to earn a starting spot even when Balotelli returns, good player that lad, underrated.
Personally, I think it's too early to be having a go at any of our signings, but I can understand some being frustrated.  Lambert should be exempt.  He was an opportunistic signing, perhaps there was a little bit of romance involved, but he's came in and done a job right when we needed him.  He was signed as a backup, but he's stepped up and is doing a decent job of leading the line.  Pleased for the lad.

I used to watch him at  Bristol Rovers, and while he hasn't got any quicker, he's certainly a cleverer player.  With a fully fit squad I can imagine him being a great partner for Sturridge.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3171 on: November 30, 2014, 02:34:49 pm »
Tell you what, Rickie Lambert has done enough to earn a starting spot even when Balotelli returns, good player that lad, underrated.

Came out the ground reinvigorated yesterday by our second half performance which for a few spells made a lie of my own desperation for the mobile pacy strikers to hurt the opposition back four = because hurt them we certainly did at times. And yeah, Rickie played out of his skin and offered significantly more than Mario has shown.

As for the game, the media - and Mark Hughes - seem to have had their match assessments coloured a bit by the chances that fell to Stoke to score and they certainly did make those opportunities. The reality, however, was we were considerably the better side virtue of our second half performance which may have only produced a similar number of chances as Stoke but had Stoke on the ropes at times and with Sturridge or someone similar up front would have resulted in a significantly more comfortable victory.

So it was great to see at long last a performance - consummated by a win - to gladden the heart.

It doesn't change much in terms of the desperation for the return of Daniel and the signing of the mobile, pacy striker signing but it certainly offers hope until such time that with the right team selections and player performances the team can enter the field of play with the belief we can at least produce performances that can win us games. 

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3172 on: November 30, 2014, 02:40:17 pm »
Jackson Martinez..... :wave


Timbo..that one was for you.   ;)

er Cheers Mel lad.

Is that courtesy of the old  Bogata/Houston bush grapevine or what?

 :)

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: The current downturn - due to flawed transfer business or something else?
« Reply #3173 on: November 30, 2014, 02:51:01 pm »
It's telling that our first win occurs when the majority of the new signings were resigned to the bench; and even then, our weakest link was Lambert.

It's clear that whoever was in charge of transfers failed completely. They wasted the platform we established last season, and wasted the funds of one of the best players in the world. Unless we uncover another Suarez or Torres, it is very unlikely we will have the opportunity we had this summer again. It's clear another rebuilding job is required. None of our strikers are fit for purpose, and we're still relying on an Toure. But as you often advocate, we can only support the team. There's nothing that can be done except: hope we can stay within contention for the top 4 until January; hope the owners fix the regime in charge of transfers; and hope that the owners are willing to buy two the strikers we desperately need.

All in all i think it's very clear the downturn is down to flawed transfer business.
I don't think they failed at transfers mate. The thing to note here is that there were a lot of new players who needed gametime and seeing as Brendan has already had his hands full with increased information and tasks as well as decreasing preparation time, it was always going to be hard to gel so many players.

These players had plenty of gametime now, so I think we're at the right point where they should be introduced as subs or starting only to be subbed.

You might be saying- "so yes- they did make bad calls", but what we seem to forget is that the amount of signings were necessary. Brendan knew that and even before the beginning of the season, he hinted that it will be a bedding-in period.

These players have had their confidence shot- moreso than those already here(the established players have a stronger resolve, having been involved in their fair share of battles week-in-week-out, at the top) and there would've been no real visible value from them. Players hwo come to Liverpool might have confidence, but we require a strong resolve to maintain that confidence and that is what they should build here, because everyone already here has had to build that resolve. If we keep it this way, they should now be able to build that sort of resolve and we could see the majority fulfill their value.

I still think we made good signings- Lambert is the more established of the bunch now and he and Sturrigde will get on like a house on fire. The rest- it's too early to make a negative call, seeing as they'd been here 2 minutes and have yet to gain the necessary confidence and knowledge of the team and Brendan's methods. Sure, they understand theme and know some of the team, but it comes down to puting it in practice week-in-week out and sofar there has just not been enough time.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 03:08:44 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3174 on: November 30, 2014, 02:56:35 pm »
Came out the ground reinvigorated 

Bollocks to it.

I'm feeling so good about what I saw in that second half I've changed the thread title.

Onwards and upwards.

The downturn is officially fuckin over.

  ;D

Online Gnurglan

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3175 on: November 30, 2014, 02:59:46 pm »
It was good to win yesterday. And it was good to see Lambert play well. That we played 'old' players and not new signings may be important too. We battled to win. Without Gerrard for the most part of the game. Without Sturridge and without players bought for 100M. Now there's a lot of good in that. Among other things, it's a sign for the new faces what's needed to win games. And it's a sign that they won't have a free pass to the first team. They'll have to prove their worth, or we go with the others. We have every reason to.

        * * * * * *


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Offline 4pool

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3176 on: November 30, 2014, 03:07:09 pm »
er Cheers Mel lad.

Is that courtesy of the old  Bogata/Houston bush grapevine or what?

 :)

Something like that...
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3177 on: November 30, 2014, 03:14:23 pm »
It was good to win yesterday. And it was good to see Lambert play well. That we played 'old' players and not new signings may be important too. We battled to win. Without Gerrard for the most part of the game. Without Sturridge and without players bought for 100M. Now there's a lot of good in that. Among other things, it's a sign for the new faces what's needed to win games. And it's a sign that they won't have a free pass to the first team. They'll have to prove their worth, or we go with the others. We have every reason to.
Is right mate.
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline artanis

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3178 on: November 30, 2014, 03:15:12 pm »
We will know in a few weeks if the Stoke win marks a turn in our form. If we do improve you can even point to apparent solidity in the Ludogorec game where we were solid for 80+ minutes sandwiched between unfortunate defensive errors.
Our first half against Stoke was equally as important to the players as they realized they are capable of holding a decent PL team to absolutely no chances. Once they did that there was something to build on in the second half. One can see that Gerrard may need to be an impact sub from now on once opposition has tired.

Online Gnurglan

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3179 on: November 30, 2014, 03:15:32 pm »
Wow, that was a quick change of the title.
Let's hope we can build on yesterday. I still think there are some issues that we need to deal with. They won't go away just because we won a game. But those issues are off the pitch. On it we know what to do. Generally, better focus, hard work and playing those who are in form is a good start. Another win next and I believe Rodgers will feel more at ease. Could prove to be a very important time for him.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3180 on: November 30, 2014, 03:17:03 pm »
Leicester and Sunderland this week. Two wins are required.

Offline Zephyr

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3181 on: November 30, 2014, 03:22:46 pm »
I don't think one second half performance against Stoke reversed it. We played much better than we have recently, but we still were not anywhere near the level that we were at last season. A 1-0 at home against Stoke shouldn't be the measurement of how far we've improved. Only a good run of results, i.e. five wins without a loss, will be evidence for how much we would be improving. I think we're capable of it, though. We have a squad filled with talent and potential, and with Brendan we have a chance.

Come on, Redmen.
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Offline theMilkman

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3182 on: November 30, 2014, 03:56:12 pm »
three good performances on the bounce against Leicester, Sunderland and Basel (with preferably three wins) and we can talk about a turnaround. most importantly Brendan needs to get his team selection right. but there was a lot in that performance to build on so hopefully that's the worst of the storm over  :)
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Offline gregorio

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3183 on: November 30, 2014, 03:56:49 pm »
In response to the new OP, if grit and courage were enough, I'd say yes.
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3184 on: November 30, 2014, 04:08:49 pm »
Wow, that was a quick change of the title.
Let's hope we can build on yesterday. I still think there are some issues that we need to deal with. They won't go away just because we won a game. But those issues are off the pitch. On it we know what to do. Generally, better focus, hard work and playing those who are in form is a good start. Another win next and I believe Rodgers will feel more at ease. Could prove to be a very important time for him.

Have to admit G - I have been yearning to have a reason to flip the thrust of the title and the feeling of 'justice done' as Johnno bravely put his head on the line seems to fit the bill as far as justifying a quick  flip [if you'll pardon the expression  ;D].

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3185 on: November 30, 2014, 04:09:31 pm »
In response to the new OP, if grit and courage were enough, I'd say yes.

Yeah - let's go for it.

 :)

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3186 on: November 30, 2014, 04:10:28 pm »
three good performances on the bounce against Leicester, Sunderland and Basel (with preferably three wins) and we can talk about a turnaround. most importantly Brendan needs to get his team selection right. but there was a lot in that performance to build on so hopefully that's the worst of the storm over  :)

Couldn't agree more.  :)

Offline sempi

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3187 on: November 30, 2014, 04:18:46 pm »
I don't think one second half performance against Stoke reversed it. We played much better than we have recently, but we still were not anywhere near the level that we were at last season. A 1-0 at home against Stoke shouldn't be the measurement of how far we've improved. Only a good run of results, i.e. five wins without a loss, will be evidence for how much we would be improving. I think we're capable of it, though. We have a squad filled with talent and potential, and with Brendan we have a chance.

Come on, Redmen.

Agreed but the way the flow of the game went, with slick passing 1-2s coming off and heck, even commitment, desire and sheer bravery from Johnson meant we got our just rewards. That plus a clean sheet for a change.

Offline Easy

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3188 on: November 30, 2014, 04:23:19 pm »
In response to the new OP, if grit and courage were enough, I'd say yes.

Well it's a good place to start.

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3189 on: November 30, 2014, 04:25:01 pm »
I don't think they failed at transfers mate. The thing to note here is that there were a lot of new players who needed gametime and seeing as Brendan has already had his hands full with increased information and tasks as well as decreasing preparation time, it was always going to be hard to gel so many players.

These players had plenty of gametime now, so I think we're at the right point where they should be introduced as subs or starting only to be subbed.

You might be saying- "so yes- they did make bad calls", but what we seem to forget is that the amount of signings were necessary. Brendan knew that and even before the beginning of the season, he hinted that it will be a bedding-in period.

These players have had their confidence shot- moreso than those already here(the established players have a stronger resolve, having been involved in their fair share of battles week-in-week-out, at the top) and there would've been no real visible value from them. Players hwo come to Liverpool might have confidence, but we require a strong resolve to maintain that confidence and that is what they should build here, because everyone already here has had to build that resolve. If we keep it this way, they should now be able to build that sort of resolve and we could see the majority fulfill their value.

I still think we made good signings- Lambert is the more established of the bunch now and he and Sturrigde will get on like a house on fire. The rest- it's too early to make a negative call, seeing as they'd been here 2 minutes and have yet to gain the necessary confidence and knowledge of the team and Brendan's methods. Sure, they understand theme and know some of the team, but it comes down to puting it in practice week-in-week out and sofar there has just not been enough time.

On the sort of performance level he gave us yesterday I agree entirely [highlighted bit]. The immobility we've all been so eager to highlight as such a handicap - myself included - he certainly compensates for in no small way by intelligent movement and awareness and no lack of effort.

Of course, we still need the pacy partner/replacement for Daniel but Rickie's last three performances have shown clearly that we do not need to feel quite the despair that without Daniel or the pacy mobile striker replacement we've got nothing in our armoury to hurt the opposition. and the rest of the team seems to think so to, judging by the improvend peformances of the likes of sterling and Coutinho and the midfield lads like Henderson.

 :)

Offline Easy

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3190 on: November 30, 2014, 04:25:39 pm »
Leicester and Sunderland this week. Two wins are required.

We need to do what Utd have done, string a couple of wins together and all of a sudden the table looks a lot friendlier.

Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3191 on: November 30, 2014, 04:45:51 pm »
That's a very good article and his statistical analysis is interesting to say the least; however, one thing I think is missed is that when you are at a disadvantage financially it is paramount that you hold on to your best players. After getting close to the title in 2009 we lost Alonso and bought poorly; Benitez was not given all of the Alonso money, which may have been a factor in going for Aqua; however, it turned out to be a very poor signing.

Again last season we went close, loose Luis and buy poorly hence we have fallen back. Had we kept hold of Luis and Daniel stayed fit I think we would be right up there of course we'd need some good fortune with injuries all team do (think of City without Aguro or Chelsea without Costa) but I still think a top manager with cleaver signings can still make a huge difference. Otherwise how did Simone manage to overhaul RM & Barca and come within a whisker of a La Liga & CL double last season? They like us lost their star striker and this season are still competing, whereas we have collapsed. 

   

i think losing arbeloa was far more of a loss although alonso was a loss.

the back 4 then had to carry a rookie left back and an attacking right back with no sense of defensive and attacking balance.
it was like carrying 2 defenders int eh abck 4 and was always gonna cause a problem.

also teams worked out that if you marked gerarrd in  the cam positition you bascially made it hard for the torres gerarrd combo to work.
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Offline Cantona

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3192 on: November 30, 2014, 04:52:30 pm »
Bollocks to it.

I'm feeling so good about what I saw in that second half I've changed the thread title.

Onwards and upwards.

The downturn is officially fuckin over.

  ;D
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Offline rawcusk8

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3193 on: November 30, 2014, 04:53:38 pm »
Anyone watching Spurs right now will see how a bit of fight and determination can work wonders for you. They press the ball high up win it back, 5 of them go on to attack and end up scoring. Pressing is what has been missing from us this season and we saw glimpses of it in yesterdays game. Hope we can bring back that sort of intensity especially against the lower placed teams. We've been outfought many times this season it's about time we did it others. As the poster above mentions, win the next couple of games and the table begins to look alot better.
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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3194 on: November 30, 2014, 04:53:40 pm »
i think losing arbeloa was far more of a loss although alonso was a loss.

the back 4 then had to carry a rookie left back and an attacking right back with no sense of defensive and attacking balance.
it was like carrying 2 defenders int eh abck 4 and was always gonna cause a problem.

also teams worked out that if you marked gerarrd in  the cam positition you bascially made it hard for the torres gerarrd combo to work.
Arbeloa was more of a loss than Alonso ?

Nah, you can't compare a full back's influence to a top class centre midfield player.

Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3195 on: November 30, 2014, 05:02:12 pm »
Arbeloa was more of a loss than Alonso ?

Nah, you can't compare a full back's influence to a top class centre midfield player.

depends which way your looking at it.

a back 4 now having 2 weak links in it was always gonna weaken the side......
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Offline bigbear

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3196 on: November 30, 2014, 05:07:57 pm »
depends which way your looking at it.

a back 4 now having 2 weak links in it was always gonna weaken the side......
as is constantly turning over possession through losing one of your top class players who dictated the game against whoever he played against.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3197 on: November 30, 2014, 05:09:16 pm »
Corner turned?

It depends upon your definition of the noun 'corner' and  the adjective 'turned' - but, whatever, yesterday felt great when justice was done with Johnno's finest ever impression of Tony Hateley

 ;D

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3198 on: November 30, 2014, 05:29:30 pm »
Corner turned?
It would take more than just a 3-0 win against lowly Hull mate.
You've turned so many corners, you've been going around in circles.

On a more serious note- too bad you lot are starting to peak with regard to fitness and the manager's philosophy taking hold(just about the same time PoP predicted). I can see a simialr run to ours last season. Had we gotten ourselves together earlier, we might've been shoulder-to-shoulder. You've got the real deal.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 05:35:20 pm by the_red_pill »
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

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Re: The downturn - has that inspired second half against Stoke just reversed it?
« Reply #3199 on: November 30, 2014, 05:59:01 pm »
Started this post as a response to something in the post-match thread, but I think it makes more sense here.

It shouldn't be about dropping him or Gerrard or whoever. What has been done wrong this season is that there hasn't been enough inter-changing of Lucas and Gerrard in that role this keeping them both fresh and using Gerrard further forward if we want to.

Gerrard should be nowhere near playing 3 games a week these days. Not because he can't do it because he probably can to a degree, but because he will maintain a higher degree of freshness and physical capacity if he is can target his game time.

Similarly, if Lucas was playing 3 games a week his levels would drop.

This is one of the biggest transitions in moving to regular European football, the need to manage players so that you keep the team as fresh as possible is a totally different scenario. From early on, when Rodgers decided Sterling needed a rest, or when the same player was left out of the England team and all that followed, there has been a lack of understanding of the need for players, particularly the younger and older members of the squad, to not be overplayed.

The strains of overplaying can lead to a drop in performance, and increase the risk of injury. So you end up like Man United, where so many players have been out with injuries that others who would otherwise be rested are being played and picking up strains themselves. It becomes a viscious circle. With us, it's more a question of form. There's no doubt Sterling has looked a litle jaded from time to time as much of the attacking focus of the team has been on him. Also Gerrard clearly isn't the powerhouse he once was, and wherever you stand on the "quarterback question" a fit, rested Gerrard is more effective than a stressed out, overplayed one, whether that's coming off the bench or starting games.

Balotelli has been picking up knocks, too, and it could be partly that it's because he is being asked to do things, make movements, that his body simply isn't used to. It you're relying on strength in areas that just aren't used to that level of performance, then that has to have an impact on your chances of damaging yourself.

This is why it was absolutely essential for us to go out and buy as many players as we did over the summer, so that we can get back to the level we were at in 08/09 where the absence of any given player didn't dramatically weaken the team. You need three players in the squad for each position on the pitch. Having flexible players helps there, so you don't need a squad of 33, but you still don't want a situation like where we had Glen Johnson as both first choice right back and second choice left back, simply because it meant we had to overplay him and when he inevitably got injured we ended up playing kids at both sides of the defence. (The lads did fine, of course, but that's not a situation anyone would deliberately plan, given the choice.)

What we do have now, is a selection of good young players, who can come in and get games. Emre Can is a great example. A lad that age was never going to be "first choice" in his position when he was up against Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson and Allen, but he's had a fair few games, and will undoubtedly get more. As he seems to look better every time he plays, that's no bad thing. It's about easing the player in.

The trouble we've had was the need to ease in so many in such a short time. In an ideal world, Markovic, for instance, would have arrived when we had a settled team, and got the odd game as cover for Sterling, Coutinho or whoever, or come off the bench as an impact sub in a dozen games before Christmas. That way, the lad gets to know the team, but the team as a whole is still coherent, it's not a bunch of strangers out there, and it's a great way for a young player to gel in to the side, take his chances and make an impact. As it is, Markovic has also had to compete with Lallana, and the front line has been anything but settled, with any given two or three from Sturridge, Balotelli, Lambert, Sterling, Coutinho, Borini and Lallana to try and slot in alongside. Not as simple.

Could we have done anything differently? Arguably we could have bought more last year, but we were facing a possible season of forty games, so it wouldn't have been a case of resting players so much as dropping them. I think it's fair to say we did well last season with what we had availaible. And there were a few players who weren't even used much. So if we had brought in better than Moses, Aspas and co, that might have set us up better for this year, but usually it just doesn't work out like that. We had the right number of players last season, we needed a lot more this season. If we'd relied on the likes of Wisdom, Ilori, Alberto, young lads already at the club, then we'd have missed out on what still look like a decent selection of signings. And those players don't have much more familiarity with first team football here than the signings do, so there wouldn't be much advantage.

In the end, it looks like most of the problems were inevitable, as a consequence of obviously, losing the best player in the world last season, but also having to make so many additions to such a small squad at the same time, which combined with the injury to our key goalscorer, created a perfect storm.

A return to stability, in putting out a more familiar looking side, with Lambert the only "new boy", allowed the team to start to feel like Liverpool again. Someone said a while ago that Lallana was beginning to look like he believed he could play at this level, and I think he's been one of the quickest to adapt, Lambert now looks like he knows what is expected of him (he should do!) and given time, we should be seeing more of the same from the other signings. Moreno, if anything, started too well, scoring a wonder-goal (which obviously, is a good thing) before a couple of small but costly mistakes hit his confidence in himself. He'll bounce back if I'm any judge. Manquillo is still a very young player, but hasn't looked out of his depth at all.

It's at central defence where the partnerships are the hardest to from, and Rodgers' biggest headache going forwards is how to get a consistent solid back line out of Skrtel, Toure, Lovren and Sakho. There are six potential partnerships in there, and it feels like we've seen all of them at times, but the more games we play, the more they should all have an idea of how we are supposed to line up, where they are meant to play and how to read one another's games.
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