Topic: anfield road stand

[Alan_X]

Chelsea's is designed by Herzog & de Meuron, Barca by Nikken Sekkei, and our Main Stand was designed by KSS.

3 different architects.

KSS have done work at Stamford Bridge.

[CraigDS]

KSS have done work at Stamford Bridge.

Read it as the new one. Guess they could mean the current one, but been a while since they've have work done hasn't it?

[Espresso Bar]

This was taken in the Annie Road today - looks as though some of the restricted views were there already - at least those posts holding up the main stand roof will be going
@Johnn_Brandie

[clinical]

Annie road definitely need redeveloping. Whether it makes sense financially or not is a different matter.

[Alf]

Annie road definitely need redeveloping. Whether it makes sense financially or not is a different matter.

Well that's what the decision will be based on.

[LOHAG]

I have to say I'm a little disappointed that we haven't heard anything on the ARE.
I'd of thought by now that some of the key decisions on whether or not the stand is viable are answered. The performance of Carillion as a contractor must now be understood, and whether the three criteria for success of projects (time, quality / cost) have either been met or not.
Demand I suspect is known. I've chosen my seat for next year in the upper tier. I suspect all others have too. So they must  know that a full house is pretty much guaranteed. With an outstanding backlog of punters still wanting seats.
So FSG know the sums, why delay?
To me, there is a significant cost to the demobilisation and then mobilisation of a site which can run to millions. Best to crack on I say!
Any one got a finger on criteria for the go-ahead?

[CraigDS]

I imagine they know full well if things will go ahead or not, and it's more a case of timing the announcement for when they think it's best rather than anything else.

[carl123uk]

I still think they should have built this as one build and made it wrap around as the same design

[Laz]

We now know the new main stand will not be finished completely until December this year at the very earliest. So we are likely to hear very little about the ARE until later this year. I do agree with the other poster that I'm sure FSG have worked the numbers and have made their decision but if you remember what Tom Werner has said before "Our style is to under-promise and over-deliver" then we wont hear anything until presumably FSH submit a full planning application which wont come until the autumn at the earliest.

[Nessy76]

I imagine they know full well if things will go ahead or not, and it's more a case of timing the announcement for when they think it's best rather than anything else.

Yes, don't know why people are so nervy about this, they've said already that take up of the new corporate seats was quicker than anticipated, and they'll have done the research into demand even before they started on the Main Stand. It will happen, but they can't start until the Main is completed at least. And I would guess they'll want to run a while with the new Main at full capacity just to work out the wrinkles before starting work on another ambitious and lengthy construction saga.

[CraigDS]

Yes, don't know why people are so nervy about this, they've said already that take up of the new corporate seats was quicker than anticipated, and they'll have done the research into demand even before they started on the Main Stand. It will happen, but they can't start until the Main is completed at least. And I would guess they'll want to run a while with the new Main at full capacity just to work out the wrinkles before starting work on another ambitious and lengthy construction saga.

Wouldn't surprise me, if they decide to go ahead, to see it start Summer 2017 if they push for planning during next season.

That's pure guesswork though.

[Alan_X]

I have to say I'm a little disappointed that we haven't heard anything on the ARE.
I'd of thought by now that some of the key decisions on whether or not the stand is viable are answered. The performance of Carillion as a contractor must now be understood, and whether the three criteria for success of projects (time, quality / cost) have either been met or not.
Demand I suspect is known. I've chosen my seat for next year in the upper tier. I suspect all others have too. So they must  know that a full house is pretty much guaranteed. With an outstanding backlog of punters still wanting seats.
So FSG know the sums, why delay?
To me, there is a significant cost to the demobilisation and then mobilisation of a site which can run to millions. Best to crack on I say!
Any one got a finger on criteria for the go-ahead?

They said they are going to review after the Main Stand is open.

Demobilisation/Mobilisation of the site is irrelevant. By the time the first phase is complete there will be no significant site setup. The ARE will be a new contract - they won't just hand it to Carillion.

Demand isn't known. Season ticket take up may be known but no one knows what impact of the new capacity will have on general admission/membership ticket sales.

Let's hope for a good end to this season and a good start to next season to push demand sky high and that the need for additional seats is clear.

[poopscoop]

I have to say I'm a little disappointed that we haven't heard anything on the ARE.
I'd of thought by now that some of the key decisions on whether or not the stand is viable are answered. The performance of Carillion as a contractor must now be understood, and whether the three criteria for success of projects (time, quality / cost) have either been met or not.
Demand I suspect is known. I've chosen my seat for next year in the upper tier. I suspect all others have too. So they must  know that a full house is pretty much guaranteed. With an outstanding backlog of punters still wanting seats.
So FSG know the sums, why delay?
To me, there is a significant cost to the demobilisation and then mobilisation of a site which can run to millions. Best to crack on I say!
Any one got a finger on criteria for the go-ahead?

From a costs only perspective this is not a bad time to buy up the steel surplus that China has been bashing out. Apologies for my insensitivity to any UK steel workers who read this.

[Easy]

It depends what quality of steel they need. If it's good quality stuff, they may need to buy British anyway. Chinese steel is unreliable in terms of quality, you don't necessarily get what's on the label.

[poopscoop]

A poster on Skyscrapercity by the name of BG claims the club has removed all reference to redevelopment of the ARE from their media channels:
"I have always been in favour of a new Anfield Stadium as the 45,000 existing seats are just not fit for purpose, however FSG are in charge, not me, and if the redevelopment does not stop at putting some lipstick on the pig that was the old main stand then I will support their choice of a financially prudent solution. Time will tell, the proposed Anfield Road part of the redevelopment appears to have been removed from all LFC related media, only the club can explain why and they seem reluctant to do so."

It puzzled me a bit so had a look around - and all the original docs are still viewable on the .gov site. Has anyone else heard rumours that FSG are distancing themselves from the redevelopment of the Anny Road? I cannot imagine them ploughing into a second major project so soon after completion of the main stand. I recognise that my post is based on conjecture but I am interested to here if others have heard that the project has been mothballed? 

[CraigDS]

I don't think there was anything on there about the Anny Rd in the first place was there?

I mean other than outline planning there is nothing else to talk about, no images, or details, etc.

[Nessy76]

A poster on Skyscrapercity by the name of BG claims the club has removed all reference to redevelopment of the ARE from their media channels:
"I have always been in favour of a new Anfield Stadium as the 45,000 existing seats are just not fit for purpose, however FSG are in charge, not me, and if the redevelopment does not stop at putting some lipstick on the pig that was the old main stand then I will support their choice of a financially prudent solution. Time will tell, the proposed Anfield Road part of the redevelopment appears to have been removed from all LFC related media, only the club can explain why and they seem reluctant to do so."

It puzzled me a bit so had a look around - and all the original docs are still viewable on the .gov site. Has anyone else heard rumours that FSG are distancing themselves from the redevelopment of the Anny Road? I cannot imagine them ploughing into a second major project so soon after completion of the main stand. I recognise that my post is based on conjecture but I am interested to here if others have heard that the project has been mothballed? 

They said they are going to review after the Main Stand is open.

Sounds like more nonsense. If there is demand, they'll build it, why wouldn't they? If there isn't demand, why would we want loads of empty seats?

[The Lord Admiral]

A poster on Skyscrapercity by the name of BG claims the club has removed all reference to redevelopment of the ARE from their media channels:
"I have always been in favour of a new Anfield Stadium as the 45,000 existing seats are just not fit for purpose, however FSG are in charge, not me, and if the redevelopment does not stop at putting some lipstick on the pig that was the old main stand then I will support their choice of a financially prudent solution. Time will tell, the proposed Anfield Road part of the redevelopment appears to have been removed from all LFC related media, only the club can explain why and they seem reluctant to do so."

It puzzled me a bit so had a look around - and all the original docs are still viewable on the .gov site. Has anyone else heard rumours that FSG are distancing themselves from the redevelopment of the Anny Road? I cannot imagine them ploughing into a second major project so soon after completion of the main stand. I recognise that my post is based on conjecture but I am interested to here if others have heard that the project has been mothballed? 

Have you got a link?
cheers

[CraigDS]

Here is the Stadium Expansion page from the offy site....
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/stadium-expansion


Here it is from the 1st Jan 2016 with no mention of the Anny Rd....
http://web.archive.org/web/20160101002516/http://www.liverpoolfc.com/stadium-expansion


Even going back to Dec 2014 there is no mention of the Anny Rd....
http://web.archive.org/web/20141230042537/http://www.liverpoolfc.com/stadium-expansion

[poopscoop]

Have you got a link?
cheers

Didn't think it was worthy of a link as it was only a mention, which I highlighted in quotes. I was just interested in whether anyone else has heard similar. Have to agree with Nessy - if there's a need they'll build it, if not, business as usual.

[dudleyred]

Didn't think it was worthy of a link as it was only a mention, which I highlighted in quotes. I was just interested in whether anyone else has heard similar. Have to agree with Nessy - if there's a need they'll build it, if not, business as usual.

Would the club not see 25000 waiting list for ST as demand right off the bat?

I appreciate only a % of these would actually purchase if offered but surely a decent number would?

[Nessy76]

Would the club not see 25000 waiting list for ST as demand right off the bat?

I appreciate only a % of these would actually purchase if offered but surely a decent number would?

They've done lots of work on trying to estimate demand, much more sophisticated than just looking at the ST list. There will be a clearer idea when the Main Stand is finished. If they still see evidence that a lot more want tickets than can currently get them then they'll go ahead.

[CraigDS]

They've done lots of work on trying to estimate demand, much more sophisticated than just looking at the ST list. There will be a clearer idea when the Main Stand is finished. If they still see evidence that a lot more want tickets than can currently get them then they'll go ahead.

Were loads of spares for the Newcastle game, wonder where the 25k ST waiting list was then?

[Peter McGurk]

A poster on Skyscrapercity by the name of BG claims the club has removed all reference to redevelopment of the ARE from their media channels:
"I have always been in favour of a new Anfield Stadium as the 45,000 existing seats are just not fit for purpose, however FSG are in charge, not me, and if the redevelopment does not stop at putting some lipstick on the pig that was the old main stand then I will support their choice of a financially prudent solution. Time will tell, the proposed Anfield Road part of the redevelopment appears to have been removed from all LFC related media, only the club can explain why and they seem reluctant to do so."

It puzzled me a bit so had a look around - and all the original docs are still viewable on the .gov site. Has anyone else heard rumours that FSG are distancing themselves from the redevelopment of the Anny Road? I cannot imagine them ploughing into a second major project so soon after completion of the main stand. I recognise that my post is based on conjecture but I am interested to here if others have heard that the project has been mothballed?

1. How anyone can describe the Main Stand Redevelopment as lipstick on a pig (or lick of paint or anything else we've heard) is beyond me. Like it, love it or think it's ok, it's a significant investment. I imagine even after getting so far, some people can only picture what's there instead of what will be there.

2. The club is developing Anfield - not FSG. Clearly FSG have an interest as owners and investors (in the club, not the stadium - as they are being paid straight back with no interest, it is at 'arm's length') but they have bigger fish to fry, like TV. And who would blame them? Why invest 100s of millions in stadium capacity for relatively small return at high risk when a TV deal blows the money out of the water at the stroke of a pen. I exaggerate but the point is made.

3. The club has spent money and gone to some trouble for an Outline Consent for ARE. This lasts for 5 years at least (it can be renewed). It is a valuable asset registered to the club and cannot be taken away from it nor sensibly would the club relinquish it.

4. The time to 'sell' something (on social media, whatever) is when you're doing it and you have the momentum of doing it. How can you sell anything when you are not certain what you are selling (the existing stand has a surprising number of hospitality packages in the upper tier - will these packages stay in some new seats???), who you are selling to or precisely when it will be available? You can't.

[RaveDave]

Were loads of spares for the Newcastle game, wonder where the 25k ST waiting list was then?

Unless you know the exact details of the 25k on the waiting list you can't really use that as an argument, what percentage of those people live within 30-40 miles of Anfield? who would be able to just rock up at Anfield at short notice and pick up a spare?

Having loads of spares for a game is fine for fans who are in the city or who are prepared to head to Anfield on the off chance that they will pick up a spare. Fans from all over the UK aren't going to just turn up at Anfield on the off chance of this being the case. Fans who are travelling hundreds of miles to get to Anfield or those from further afield who have to organise flights and accomodation need certainty of tickets and when the additional tickets for the new main stand are available next season they will be sold out in no time.

FSG are going about this the right way IMO bring the capacity up to 54k and then monitoring sales before going again, i have no doubt the additional tickets will be sold out every week and they will quickly move onto the Anfield Road End, some of our fans underestimate the demand for tickets, i have a feeling even the club do, i personally know quite a few fans here in NI who want to go to games but have simply given up even trying for tickets such is the difficulty in getting them.

[CraigDS]

Unless you know the exact details of the 25k on the waiting list you can't really use that as an argument, what percentage of those people live within 30-40 miles of Anfield? who would be able to just rock up at Anfield at short notice and pick up a spare?

Having loads of spares for a game is fine for fans who are in the city or who are prepared to head to Anfield on the off chance that they will pick up a spare. Fans from all over the UK aren't going to just turn up at Anfield on the off chance of this being the case. Fans who are travelling hundreds of miles to get to Anfield or those from further afield who have to organise flights and accomodation need certainty of tickets and when the additional tickets for the new main stand are available next season they will be sold out in no time.

You'd imagine the vast majority who want a ST would have some ability to get to games at shorter notice. I mean they'll have the ability to get to at least 19 games a season so doubt the majority are coming from 100's of miles away each time (some will obviously).

to be honest I was more making as ridiculous a point as the whole 'we have 25k on the list' is anyway. There are too many variables (in both arguments) to simply come out with statements like them.

[dudleyred]

Not sure I agree. If the club offered a ST to the next 8000 on the list after the current 2000 I would expect 6000 to take one up. Where they are based is immaterial to the club. Equally if it's all about finances I'm not sure they'd be fussed if they weren't all occupied every game.

If there was general sale element to consider then I could appreciate the complexity of trying to understand the demand etc.

What we can agree on is if the new development is fully occupied then the development is likely to be considered

[Nessy76]

Were loads of spares for the Newcastle game, wonder where the 25k ST waiting list was then?

Were there actual tickets still available from the club? That's highly unusual.

[CraigDS]

Were there actual tickets still available from the club? That's highly unusual.

I'm honestly not sure, as said above it was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment.

With the amount of empty seats I'd be really surprised if some of these weren't available via the club. Were plenty empty.

[Alan_X]

A poster on Skyscrapercity...

Stopped reading right there. Skyscraper City is full of the worst whoppers.

The people re-writing history must have missed this on the Club's website:

"....Incorporating the iconic club crest into the proposed Main Stand's exterior elevation, the scheme will also include a two-storey podium and a carefully designed cloister which will become the new home for the Hillsborough Memorial.

The Main Stand will open onto a wide public concourse which will link the stadium into the wider Anfield area.

The outline proposals for the Anfield Road Stand provide for an increase in its capacity of around 4,800 seats.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/stadium-expansion/161747-lfc-reveal-stadium-expansion-vision

There's a major construction project underway and the ARE has outline permission (the documents showing it are available to download from Liverpool Council's website.

There are some people desperate for the ARE not to go ahead because it will give them the chance to say "I told you so..."

It may or it may not go ahead. But whatever you do - pay no attention to what some whopper says on Skysraper City. 

[CraigDS]

There are some people desperate for the ARE not to go ahead because it will give them the chance to say "I told you so..."

Wonder if they are the ones who said it about the Main as well, as were plenty of them.

[Alan_X]

Wonder if they are the ones who said it about the Main as well, as were plenty of them.

Haha - BeeGee has got RAWK's number:

March 7th, 2015, 02:41 PM      #681
BeeGee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wirral - Greater Liverpool
Posts: 1,104
Likes (Received): 362

Zander - just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you!

I am somewhere in the middle on this subject. As a long term (very long term) season ticket holder at LFC I have seen examples of coordinated response to criticism. Try Red & White Kop (RAWK) and post some critique of the Anfield Redevelopment or of FSG and be prepared to reap a whirlwind. The attack will be immediate and comes from a group of identified individuals including a moderator who sing from identical hymn sheets.

It has been said (they would say that anyway) on other LFC forums that RAWK is indeed heavily infiltrated by funded apologists, that however cannot be proven. However the instant reaction to any negativity towards FSG does make you stop and think.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1720930&page=35

I wonder if BeeGee might be AKABillyGee who used to post the same stuff on here till he had is arse handed to him for talking bollocks:

I stopped posting on here some considerable time ago and became a reader rather than a contributor. The reason for that was that when I voiced my concerns that certain posters (as mentioned here) always took FSG's side - no matter what and that they appeared more cheer leaders than balanced critics, I was attacked for those comments. Staff who are the only ones with the ability to  access my avatar, started to include derogatory comments and innuendo into my personal details.

When I sent an email complaining I received no reply. Delightful.

If you want an independent view on how some of these pro FSG are viewed get onto another forum such as Skyscraper City, especially the Anfield Redevelopment discussions, RAWK is not seen in a positive light. And after my own personal experience, I can see why.

From Skyscraper City:

April 22nd, 2014, 01:49 PM      #103
BeeGee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wirral - Greater Liverpool
Posts: 1,104
Likes (Received): 362

Quote:

Incredible the figures being quoted to justify not building a new stadium.

Athletic Bilbao built a brand new San Marmes with a capacity of in excess of 53,000 for £132m. A new Anfield with 7000 more seats is being quoted at 3.5 times as much - and land and labour in Bilbao is a lot more expensive than Liverpool.

From RAWK:

I find the estimates for a redeveloped Anfield - and come to that a new stadium - quite staggering and totally over the top.  I had reason to visit Bilbao in the Basque country a couple of years ago and visited the old San Mames stadium and discussed the building of the new national stadium to replace it.

Athletic Bilbao have built a brand new 53,332 capacity stadium from scratch adjacent to the old at a total reported cost of £186m paid for by the regional government.  The old ground was tremendous a real football stadium but AB did not wallow in nostalgia they looked at the numbers and moved forward.

I too have studied the figures for new build v redevelopment and whilst I cannot be bothered to once again go into the minutia I would go new build every day of the week.

Basic info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Mamés_Stadium_(2013)

[Nessy76]

"RAWK is indeed heavily infiltrated by funded apologists"

RAWK is HIBFA. Watch out.

[Nessy76]

While we're on the subject, I'm quite prepared to sell my voice on here for the right price. Offers via PM, please.

[Peter McGurk]

I'm sorry but I can imagine what weight all the fan forums put together have with the club... but just because you're a funded apologist, doesn't mean you are wrong 

[Alan_X]

Just because you're a funded apologist, doesn't mean you are wrong 

If I'm a funded apologist I want my money!

[archie]

If I'm a funded apologist I want my money!

Put that in the kitty Thursday!

[John C]

Great spot Alan

[CraigDS]

Who are these funded apologists? 

Come on name yourselves

[Nessy76]

Is there a flat rate or do they pay per apology?

Sorry if anyone has asked this.