Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1823686 times)

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #520 on: October 26, 2014, 07:47:34 pm »
I'm sure there are clubs that would take him but I'd imagine finances/wages are an issue

Yes, but if he was as good as a few still seem to think he is, i'm sure a club like QPR or similar would have bid or even some Italian teams
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #521 on: October 26, 2014, 07:49:16 pm »
Love Lucas but he isn't good enough anymore, it speaks volumes that we were trying to offload him in the summer and we didn't receive any permanent offers, even Borini/Assaidi had clubs wanting to sign them to deals

Its as if they didn't see those famous losses at City and Chelsea last season, those performances alone should have gotten him a move. He was outstanding.

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #522 on: October 26, 2014, 07:57:25 pm »
Pace, power, technique and athleticism.

Watching Chelsea v's Utd (for my sins) and seeing a player like Matic showed the blue print for the right type of player for the Premiership. When Chelsea brought on Mikel it co-incided with Utd getting more of the ball and pushing Chelsea back, the difference? He is slow, he can't get up and down the pitch so the team retreated to compensate for that. It's the same with Gerrard, for all his excellence on the ball, I think if our defense wasn't a bunch of headless chicken he has to babysit we'd see far less of him on the field, as he simply hasn't got the legs to compete v's much younger (less skilled) players.

It's why I think Allen for all his industry, technique simply won't cut it for us if we aspire to push on towards the title. He gets knocked off the ball far too easily, just like Lallana - it's pointless having all the quick feet in the world if 9 times out of 10 you simply get bullied off the ball by a huge clogger who hasn't got even the slightest amount of skill as you.

We seem to have players who for the most part do 1 aspect of what is a great midfielder.. This is a slight hyperbole to prove a point, so bare with me.

Henderson - Athletic
Allen - Technical
Gerrard - Vision/Leadership
Lucas - Reading of the Game

Players who more "specialise" in a certain area than being an all rounded player - in this day and age and in the Premier League in world football you can't just have 1 cravat to your game, you need it all - it's one of the reasons I think our defence suffers, our midfield isn't good enough - we are too slow/static and don't cover the ground in front of the midfield properly, we get cut open with pretty simple passing at times, we don't track runners well. If we slow our very soft center our defence will grow in stature I'm sure. At the moment it appears a vicious cycle of needing Gerrard's leadership as our backline are displaying none, but Gerrard isn't covering our midfield due to his energy levels so the backline suffers.

Can gives me great hope as he has good feet, a great turn of pace and is a big strong lad, he fits the profile.. If Henderson could unleash his shackles and stop playing it so safe he is another player who has all the correct attributes etc.

I believe the midfield has moved away from specialists - Germany in the world cup had Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Khedira - you couldn't say which of any's "weak" area of their game was, as they don't have one. Any one of the 3 could drop deep and dictate play or cover the defence, all had the engine to get up and support the attack, they could all pass long and short and score.. It's the future of the game. The days of the "Makelele" specialist are a thing of the past, why have 1 excellent defensive midfielder when you can have 3, but those 3 can do all other aspects of the game also?

Liverpool are stuck with specialists who individually are excellent at certain aspects of the game, but not all round excellent. So if one of them is out we loose their individual excellence in that area and are always weaker as a whole. When Allen is out we are screaming for a player who can take the ball forward and keep it in tight spaces, when Gerrard is out we loose the ability to switch play and his leadership, when Henderson is out we miss his pressing and energy across the park etc.

We need to move with the times or get left behind.

To answer the OP?

I'd play Can + Henderson + Coutinho, with a direct Gerrard replacement my primary aim for January/Summer.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:01:28 pm by Draex »

Offline rocco

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #523 on: October 26, 2014, 07:58:00 pm »
Love Lucas but he isn't good enough anymore, it speaks volumes that we were trying to offload him in the summer and we didn't receive any permanent offers, even Borini/Assaidi had clubs wanting to sign them to deals
Borini and Assaidi got offers as they were out on loan and getting regular games  , put Lucas in the same position and he would have got a decent offer as well

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #524 on: October 26, 2014, 08:01:43 pm »
Joe Allen is beginning to frustrate again. Every opportunity we had to break forward yesterday Joe either miscontrolled the ball or would pirouette on the ball in slow motion similar to pro evolution soccer 2 and halt the break away, then lay it off to Skrtel or Gerrard.

Can was our best midfielder till Coutinho came on as he ran strongly with the ball with some purpose at least.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:03:36 pm by Upinsmoke »

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #525 on: October 26, 2014, 08:03:34 pm »
Very early, and after two slow matches, but Can looks quite good next to Gerrard.
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #526 on: October 26, 2014, 08:05:33 pm »
Right now I'd use a diamond against swansea with Allen at the base, Henderson and Can as the strong runners and Coutinho at the tip.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #527 on: October 26, 2014, 08:06:06 pm »
Love Lucas but he isn't good enough anymore, it speaks volumes that we were trying to offload him in the summer and we didn't receive any permanent offers, even Borini/Assaidi had clubs wanting to sign them to deals

Clubs contact agents these days before they put offers in my understanding is that Lucas made it crystal clear that he wasn't interested in a move away from liverpool in the summer.
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Offline stockdam

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #528 on: October 26, 2014, 08:18:53 pm »
I'd love to see Lucas finding his old form pre-injury as he moved the ball around very efficiently.

Coutinho is a must and generally Henderson is also. Can needs a run of games but looks promising.

I'm not sure you can start Lallana if Coutinho is playing.

That leaves one spot for either Allen or Gerrard. I still think that Gerrard should play but we all know that he cannot keep up the intensity that he used to have.
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #529 on: October 26, 2014, 08:39:16 pm »
Borini and Assaidi got offers as they were out on loan and getting regular games  , put Lucas in the same position and he would have got a decent offer as well
He played a lot more than Assaidi did last year and only about 3 full games less minutes wise than Borini.

Offline Gerry83

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #530 on: October 26, 2014, 08:49:54 pm »
Surely we'll see Stevie rested for Tuesday. If so we may be able to answer the question of our best midfield combination. Right now the only names on the teamsheet are Sterling and Sturridge when fit. Moreno at a push.

Offline Passmaster Molby

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #531 on: October 26, 2014, 08:54:24 pm »
Love Lucas but he isn't good enough anymore, it speaks volumes that we were trying to offload him in the summer and we didn't receive any permanent offers, even Borini/Assaidi had clubs wanting to sign them to deals

Rafa wanted him at Napoli but De Laurentis wouldn't stump up the cash to take him there. Can only assume we refused to do a loan deal with them.

FWIW I think Lucas just needs a run of games to get some match sharpness and form back, but its clearly not going to happen under Rodgers so hopefully he can at least get a move somewhere to get first team football.

Offline Anonymous5

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #532 on: October 26, 2014, 08:54:34 pm »
Surely we'll see Stevie rested for Tuesday. If so we may be able to answer the question of our best midfield combination. Right now the only names on the teamsheet are Sterling and Sturridge when fit. Moreno at a push.
Coutinho atm as well to be fair.

Offline Adeemo

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #533 on: October 26, 2014, 08:55:59 pm »
Moreno at a push.

Definitely not at a push, he's head and shoulders above every other option at leftback.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #534 on: October 26, 2014, 08:56:05 pm »
Surely we'll see Stevie rested for Tuesday. If so we may be able to answer the question of our best midfield combination. Right now the only names on the teamsheet are Sterling and Sturridge when fit. Moreno at a push.

At this stage of his career why would Stevie give someone an opportunity to come in and stake a claim for his place.
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Offline The Infamous_LFC

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #535 on: October 26, 2014, 08:57:28 pm »
Would like to see Lucas,Can,Lallana and Coutinho against Swansea with maybe Allen for Lallana or Coutinho for a bit more solidity.

Can looks good. The way he eats up the pitch is impressive. Carries the ball well if there isn't a viable pass to play. Also he is a good physical option in the middle. Gives us a bit more height and strength in the middle when we can get over powered by teams shown by West Ham away in the past.

Shame Lucas hasn't had a chance to replace Gerrard in the DM position in any of our league games but I would like to see him play in the cup game
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:59:00 pm by The Infamous_LFC »

Offline Gerry83

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #536 on: October 26, 2014, 09:02:49 pm »
At this stage of his career why would Stevie give someone an opportunity to come in and stake a claim for his place.

Hopefully Brendans calling the shots and not the skipper though.

Offline istvan kozma

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #537 on: October 26, 2014, 09:03:30 pm »
Clubs contact agents these days before they put offers in my understanding is that Lucas made it crystal clear that he wasn't interested in a move away from liverpool in the summer.
Borini wasn't interested in a move away but it didn't stop clubs bidding for him, it seemed obvious the club was courting bids for both players.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #538 on: October 26, 2014, 09:11:02 pm »
Borini wasn't interested in a move away but it didn't stop clubs bidding for him, it seemed obvious the club was courting bids for both players.

Borini was at Sunderland on loan though and may not of got the same opportunities if he had made it clear he wasn't interested in moving there. There is also a train of thought that Borini would of been open to a move back to Italy.

Lucas has a young family and is settled in Liverpool and wanted to fight for his place.
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Offline Anonymous5

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #539 on: October 26, 2014, 09:15:59 pm »
To me it seems simple, play the players on form. Going by form, I'd play last seasons midfield of Henderson, Gerrard, Coutinho; Sterling, Lallana, Sturridge if we were to play 4-3-3. With the diamond, again play best form players, Gerrard; Henderson, Allen; Sterling; Sturridge, Balotelli (he played well in our diamond).

The reason I say play the best 'on form' players is to get us out of this patch we find ourselves in

Offline The Infamous_LFC

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #540 on: October 26, 2014, 09:19:42 pm »
To me it seems simple, play the players on form. Going by form, I'd play last seasons midfield of Henderson, Gerrard, Coutinho; Sterling, Lallana, Sturridge if we were to play 4-3-3. With the diamond, again play best form players, Gerrard; Henderson, Allen; Sterling; Sturridge, Balotelli (he played well in our diamond).

The reason I say play the best 'on form' players is to get us out of this patch we find ourselves in
Yeah would like to see that once Studge is back. Go back to last seasons midfield

Offline istvan kozma

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #541 on: October 26, 2014, 09:22:18 pm »
Borini was at Sunderland on loan though and may not of got the same opportunities if he had made it clear he wasn't interested in moving there. There is also a train of thought that Borini would of been open to a move back to Italy.

Lucas has a young family and is settled in Liverpool and wanted to fight for his place.
In other words nobody good enough were willing to pay what LFC want for him, just like Borini.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #542 on: October 26, 2014, 09:38:01 pm »
In other words nobody good enough were willing to pay what LFC want for him, just like Borini.

Totally different Borini has had a nomadic existence flitting from Club to Club whereas Lucas has had 2 Clubs in a decade and has already forced his way back from the brink once. If Lucas decides that he wants to move for first team football then that will be the time to see who comes in for him.
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #543 on: October 26, 2014, 09:40:31 pm »
At this stage of his career why would Stevie give someone an opportunity to come in and stake a claim for his place.

If Gerrard is picking the side then we have bigger issues than what our best midfield is.

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #544 on: October 26, 2014, 09:56:21 pm »
Always surprises me how much hate lucas gets. Loyal to the end and at his best easily worthy of a starting role for the Brazilian NT.
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Offline harryc

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #545 on: October 26, 2014, 10:01:07 pm »
Always surprises me how much hate lucas gets. Loyal to the end and at his best easily worthy of a starting role for the Brazilian NT.

Unfortunately his best was more than 2 years ago.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #546 on: October 26, 2014, 10:13:05 pm »
If Gerrard is picking the side then we have bigger issues than what our best midfield is.

I haven't said Gerrard is picking the team but if I was a betting man I would say Stevie will be desperate to play.Given that he has given up playing for England and the current situation at the Club I would be amazed if the manager drops him.
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #547 on: October 26, 2014, 10:20:28 pm »
Unfortunately his best was more than 2 years ago.

We really don't know that. He's only 27.
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Offline BER

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #548 on: October 26, 2014, 10:21:32 pm »
He played as a CM in some of our biggest games last season.

and yet...

Offline gaztop08

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #549 on: October 26, 2014, 10:26:19 pm »
Very early, and after two slow matches, but Can looks quite good next to Gerrard.

Was going to ask how he is it getting on but seems encouraging

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #550 on: October 26, 2014, 10:27:35 pm »
Would love to have Masch back here. he would be outstanding for us.

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #551 on: October 26, 2014, 10:27:41 pm »
Lucas has confirmed that he was in contact with Napoli over the summer and that he'd be looking around given he's not playing. Quotes that went around a few days ago anyway.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #552 on: October 26, 2014, 10:27:42 pm »
Always surprises me how much hate lucas gets. Loyal to the end and at his best easily worthy of a starting role for the Brazilian NT.

I don't think anybody here hates him.

It's just people accepting that his unfortunate injury robbed him of a yard of pace and acceleration and it's unlikely he'll reach that physical level needed again to be a top defensive mid in this league. I'm sure he'd be great in Italy
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Offline Redman0151

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #553 on: October 26, 2014, 10:28:36 pm »
Would love to have Masch back here. he would be outstanding for us.

Tony Barrett said in the summer that Mascherano was saying he never wanted to live in England again, and his wife moved away months before he left us because she hated living here and didn't like the weather/culture.

It's a no goer
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Offline Fowllah

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #554 on: October 26, 2014, 10:36:11 pm »
At this stage of his career why would Stevie give someone an opportunity to come in and stake a claim for his place.
You're bordering on the bitter here. I'd put money on you having a soft spot for the blue neighbours.

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #555 on: October 26, 2014, 10:38:06 pm »
I haven't said Gerrard is picking the team but if I was a betting man I would say Stevie will be desperate to play.Given that he has given up playing for England and the current situation at the Club I would be amazed if the manager drops him.
He dropped him from the side in the previous round...

Offline Lasardine

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #556 on: October 26, 2014, 10:43:22 pm »
Clubs contact agents these days before they put offers in my understanding is that Lucas made it crystal clear that he wasn't interested in a move away from liverpool in the summer.

In that case why did Assaidi and Borini have offers then?

Offline Lasardine

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #557 on: October 26, 2014, 10:49:53 pm »
Regarding our midfield. I don't think we have one player who is Champions League quality, unless you count Coutinho and Lallana as midfielders. I used to quite like Allen but now he offers us nothing - don't give me that keep possession nonsense either. Henderson was well out of his depth against Real, terrible display from him. He's a decent player but is overrated by our fans. Can looks talented but I think he still needs a lot of nurturing. Gerrard I'm not really sure anymore. Tries too many long balls when the shorter pass would actually be more effective in breaking the team down. It comes off sometimes but we're not really doing much with it when it does. Lucas is too immobile now after the injury unfortunately otherwise he'd probably be one of our best midfielders.

Offline istvan kozma

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #558 on: October 26, 2014, 10:51:23 pm »
The logic that our midfield would function much better without the captain in the team is something I can't quite get, especially with the current options we have. The games in which he hasn't played in the middle of the park this season, hasn't exactly shown we are vastly better without him in midfield.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 01:49:02 am by istvan kozma »

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #559 on: October 26, 2014, 10:56:19 pm »
Regarding our midfield. I don't think we have one player who is Champions League quality, unless you count Coutinho and Lallana as midfielders. I used to quite like Allen but now he offers us nothing - don't give me that keep possession nonsense either. Henderson was well out of his depth against Real, terrible display from him. He's a decent player but is overrated by our fans. Can looks talented but I think he still needs a lot of nurturing. Gerrard I'm not really sure anymore. Tries too many long balls when the shorter pass would actually be more effective in breaking the team down. It comes off sometimes but we're not really doing much with it when it does. Lucas is too immobile now after the injury unfortunately otherwise he'd probably be one of our best midfielders.

What is "champions league quality", it's not really a specific term? Good enough to get into real/barca/bayern or good enough to be in a team/squad who reaches the group stages?

I'd say Allen + Henderson are definitely of the required quality, as shown by them dominating Spurs' midfield a month or 2 back.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 10:58:20 pm by Crosby Wych »
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