Topic: It's just a battle for the order of the first 4 spots now between 5 teams...

[serpentnebula]

I think Everton and United are both out of it. Everton are more likely to slip further back than catch us. It'll be one of us, Spurs or Arsenal for 4th. If Arsenal are 4th, hopefully we'll have leapfrogged them into 3rd.. or better

[Canuck33]

Is this true? It can't be

If we finish 4th we have to go into the non-champions play offs. There'll be 10 teams and depending on who's coming through we could end up being non ranked. Unlikely, but it could happen. But even being ranked could leave us with a tough opponent, like Fenerbahce or Dnipro or Lok Moscow. So I'm not too worried about it. Let's just plow through this and finish first.

[Serenity]

Here's something no one has put out there yet: we're still on for a league and cup double... wouldn't that be something!? 

[professorj]

If you watch the BBC live text commentary thing on a Saturday/Sunday it's mad, the tweets and even the BBC guys who do the main comments - every time someone scores a goal it's EVERLASTING GLORY for that team and THE END OF THE WORLD for the team that has conceded - never more true than for Fulham and Manchester United on Sunday.   The comments swung violently between 'Even Fulham can beat this United team' to 'Here comes the deserved comeback of Champions' to 'I told you Moyes is the man after all' and finally of course to 'This is the lowest point of any United team in the past 40 years' - all in the space of 90 minutes and sometimes 90 seconds. This proves (for the umpteenth time) two things: a) Football fans are totally fickle and b) Football is completely unpredictable.

Even the most erudite of supporters who grace this wonderful forum, as well as the less erudite ex-pro pundits, had written off many games as home or away bankers to the 'big teams', not taking into consideration that those little teams will be fighting for their lives and that the 'bigger' ones are full of over-paid fancy dans a lot of the time and to their credit are under a great deal of pressure to win this so-called 'banker'.  So we get predictions saying Liverpool can only realistically get 4th.  Why?  Because the 'mighty' Manchester City MUST beat Norwich City, surely. It's over before a ball is kicked for many pundits.

Thankfully, football managers like Brendan Rodgers clearly do not think in this way and it seems he has constructed his team without fancy dans and with a truly united team spirit (just look at the handclapping Suarez was giving Dan at the start of Saturday's jizzfest despite messing up the final ball).  We need not only to take each game as it comes but also to look at the league as it IS, not how it might be IF...

At the moment we are in a fight for 3rd place, because we are 4th.  When we are 3rd, which may happen soon, we will be in a fight for 2nd.  Sorry to be Dr. Watson stating the obvious, but this idea of 'realistically' is what rankles me.  It assumes far too much will go on above us against us.

REALISTICALLY, we are Liverpool, we are poetry in motion. And our motion is only upwards at this point.

[rickardinho1]

BR and the players need to look at the next game, and avoid thinking about the table at all cost. Our biggest weakness right now is our inability to focus mentally for the "easy matches". If they can think of Fulham as a top team, we will win.

Fulham taking a point from United will be a big eye-opener for our team. I'm sure they won't be underestimating them after that result

[rickardinho1]

If you watch the BBC live text commentary thing on a Saturday/Sunday it's mad, the tweets and even the BBC guys who do the main comments - every time someone scores a goal it's EVERLASTING GLORY for that team and THE END OF THE WORLD for the team that has conceded - never more true than for Fulham and Manchester United on Sunday.   The comments swung violently between 'Even Fulham can beat this United team' to 'Here comes the deserved comeback of Champions' to 'I told you Moyes is the man after all' and finally of course to 'This is the lowest point of any United team in the past 40 years' - all in the space of 90 minutes and sometimes 90 seconds. This proves (for the umpteenth time) two things: a) Football fans are totally fickle and b) Football is completely unpredictable.

Even the most erudite of supporters who grace this wonderful forum, as well as the less erudite ex-pro pundits, had written off many games as home or away bankers to the 'big teams', not taking into consideration that those little teams will be fighting for their lives and that the 'bigger' ones are full of over-paid fancy dans a lot of the time and to their credit are under a great deal of pressure to win this so-called 'banker'.  So we get predictions saying Liverpool can only realistically get 4th.  Why?  Because the 'mighty' Manchester City MUST beat Norwich City, surely. It's over before a ball is kicked for many pundits.

Thankfully, football managers like Brendan Rodgers clearly do not think in this way and it seems he has constructed his team without fancy dans and with a truly united team spirit (just look at the handclapping Suarez was giving Dan at the start of Saturday's jizzfest despite messing up the final ball).  We need not only to take each game as it comes but also to look at the league as it IS, not how it might be IF...

At the moment we are in a fight for 3rd place, because we are 4th.  When we are 3rd, which may happen soon, we will be in a fight for 2nd.  Sorry to be Dr. Watson stating the obvious, but this idea of 'realistically' is what rankles me.  It assumes far too much will go on above us against us.

REALISTICALLY, we are Liverpool, we are poetry in motion. And our motion is only upwards at this point.

This.

[farawayred]

They are already out of both cups as lost at Old Trafford in both the FA cup against Swansea and in the Capital One cup on pens against Sunderland. The only way they will get European football is by passing Spurs and/or us or if they win the CL. Neither is very likely.

That's what I said - only 5th is good enough for them. And they will try to get it. And probably fail, but help us on the way.

[jepovic]

Fulham taking a point from United will be a big eye-opener for our team. I'm sure they won't be underestimating them after that result

I wish I could believe that. WBA had gotten points from most top teams before our game, but that didn't improve our attitude one bit.

[jepovic]

That's what I said - only 5th is good enough for them. And they will try to get it. And probably fail, but help us on the way.

5th place and EL might give Moyes another year to ruin them. That would be beautiful. I fear ManU might get themselves a proper manager if they finish 8th.

[DanA]

I'm a mixed bag. On the one hand I don't want them to win the Europa League because it guarantee's a Champions League spot next season. So in that respect if they fail to qualify that's good. But I don't want them to sack Moyes and I want them to continue to need a big squad and occasionally get distracted by midweek games.

[Nessy76]

I'm a mixed bag. On the one hand I don't want them to win the Europa League because it guarantee's a Champions League spot next season. So in that respect if they fail to qualify that's good. But I don't want them to sack Moyes and I want them to continue to need a big squad and occasionally get distracted by midweek games.

They have very little chance of winning the Europa League.

[Po The Panda]

The media are hilarious all season long going on about how it's only between Chelsea and City , yet now suddenly urging Rodgers to include us in the title race.  With a few games left if we are 3 points off that would be fantastic, Whereas right now 1 or 2 poor results would see us 10 points off and out of it. Either way to be this close in only Rodgers 2nd season is a brilliant achievement.

[Buck Pete]

I'm a mixed bag. On the one hand I don't want them to win the Europa League because it guarantee's a Champions League spot next season.

Shit I didn't know they had approved that??

Thought it was just an idea being banded around!!

[Nessy76]

Shit I didn't know they had approved that??

Thought it was just an idea being banded around!!

Next season's Europa winners get a place in the Champions League play-offs.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=311932.0

[Buck Pete]

Next season's Europa winners get a place in the Champions League play-offs.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=311932.0

Fair play. Good idea.

[Warks Moustache]

Fair play. Good idea.

Honestly though, the FA should award CL places based on who wins the domestic cups and the top two teams in the country. Celebrating 4th like its the end all be all is sickening.

[Pricey]

Points per game against top half of table: 1.36

Points per game against bottom half: 2.5

I don't think it's the weaker teams we need to worry about.

We've played all the big teams away and all the bottom half teams at home. Irrelevant stats.

[PhaseOfPlay]

We've played all the big teams away and all the bottom half teams at home. Irrelevant stats.

Not at all Pricey.

Home or away, the bottom teams are the bottom teams for a reason.

It's because they are generally crap.

Quality should, 8 or 9 times out of 10, beat crap

That's why we try to develop skill in young players, because eventually, skill wins over chance.

[Tormentorres]

Yes, the two other teams being Tottenham and Arsenal.

[Joseph-Immanuel Queen]

Honestly though, the FA should award CL places based on who wins the domestic cups and the top two teams in the country. Celebrating 4th like its the end all be all is sickening.

Can you imagine if that were the case now? Wigan in the Champions League!

[conman]

Can you imagine if that were the case now? Wigan in the Champions League!

it wouldn't so much be like that as the top teams would have a renewed focus on winning  cups

[spider-neil]

Points per game against top half of table: 1.36

Points per game against bottom half: 2.5

I don't think it's the weaker teams we need to worry about.

Our main problem is our away form with a win ratio of 1 in 4. But to be fair we played most of the top sides away in the first half of the season.

[Black Bull Nova]

Here's something no one has put out there yet: we're still on for a league and cup double... wouldn't that be something!? 

Remember what happened to city once they started talking about the 'quadruple', they turned to shit. Fulham, nothing more ast this stage.

[Spraynard Kruger]

This Spurs writer doesn't sound optimistic:

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tottenham/id/2155?cc=5901

It doesn't sound like Sherwood has a particular plan that will come into fruition at some point this season. It's better to be lucky than good, they say, but you'd have to think their luck will run out eventually.

[shanks_legend]

Wait, a Spurs fan is commenting on our away form? What happened when we were away at your ground? 

ha

[johnny74]

It's not luck for Tottenham. All Sherwood has done is release the shackles and they are performing as you'd expect them to given their squad, except for the drubbings (which show his naievety). Has anyone considered that under Sherwood they may be slightly underperforming based on the quality that they have?

[spider-neil]

I'm a mixed bag. On the one hand I don't want them to win the Europa League because it guarantee's a Champions League spot next season.

Since when?

[gregorio]

Honestly though, the FA should award CL places based on who wins the domestic cups and the top two teams in the country. Celebrating 4th like its the end all be all is sickening.

TV companies wouldn't have it, there'd be too many dead rubbers towards the end of the season

[MobileBayRed]

It's not luck for Tottenham. All Sherwood has done is release the shackles and they are performing as you'd expect them to given their squad, except for the drubbings (which show his naievety). Has anyone considered that under Sherwood they may be slightly underperforming based on the quality that they have?

As opposed to massively underperforming under AVB.

[spider-neil]

Next season's Europa winners get a place in the Champions League play-offs.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=311932.0

It's about time. There should be a big reward for the utter slog of playing all those games.

[TravisBickle]

It's not luck for Tottenham. All Sherwood has done is release the shackles and they are performing as you'd expect them to given their squad, except for the drubbings (which show his naievety).

 Performing as they should be? Did you see them against Everton? They have a squad full of attacking talent and they could only muster a single shot on target and even then it shouldn't have stood. They had no fluidity to their game, no spark, no dynamism whatsoever. They managed to grab an opening and took it.

 Given the quality of the players they have, they should be playing more like we are. As it is, they're playing like Man United but actually winning more often than not.

 Sherwood is a clown.

[Chakan]

What the should have the goal been disallowed?

[spider-neil]

It's Everton's fault they weren't alert to the free kick not Spurs.

[johnny74]

Fulham is another banana skin as are all our away games, but we've only lost to one team outside the top four away from home and that's Hull and we don't have to play another side in the top four. This all looks better than I had thought.

So far away we've won against Tottenham, Villa, Sunderland and Stoke (5th, 12th, 13th, and 17th)

We've drawn Everton, Newcastle, Swansea, and WBA (6th, 8th, 10th, and 18th)

Lost to Chelsea, Arsenal, City, and Hull (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 11th)

You might say we can assume the remaining 7 away games might be one of these permutations W3 D4 L0; W4 D3 L0; W3 D3 L1; W2 D3 L1  which is 9-13 pts out of 21.  That's 1.3 - 1.85 ppg which compares with 1.3 ppg up till now.

One disclaimer of course to all this positivity is that we play five relegation battlers in our remaining seven away games. They will be fighting like rabid dogs against us. I hope BR realises this and has a plan.

[TravisBickle]

What the should have the goal been disallowed?

 Walker moved the ball about five yards away from where the foul took place. If he'd moved it five yards forward, no way would it have been allowed.

[johnny74]

As opposed to massively underperforming under AVB.

Exactly.

[Chakan]

Walker moved the ball about five yards away from where the foul took place. If he'd moved it five yards forward, no way would it have been allowed.

5 yards is in the general area of the foul, doubt they would have done anything about it.

If they had the bitters would be complaining furiously over it.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Walker moved the ball about five yards away from where the foul took place. If he'd moved it five yards forward, no way would it have been allowed.

The ball was kicked from behind where the foul occurred. Moving it "forward" confers an advantage. Moving it back, for all intents and purposes, doesn't. And it was moved by an Everton player. So the referee is perfectly entitled to use discretionary judgement to allow the kick seeing as it was taken further AWAY from the goal than the infringement occurred.

[Lenin.]

The ball was kicked from behind where the foul occurred. Moving it "forward" confers an advantage. Moving it back, for all intents and purposes, doesn't. And it was moved by an Everton player. So the referee is perfectly entitled to use discretionary judgement to allow the kick seeing as it was taken further AWAY from the goal than the infringement occurred.

Ifithadntabinferlenganleynotbeingavailabletehrepositiontheballcorrectly.........

[elpistolero7]

Fucking Spurs. Jammy Bastards. Hope Adebayor decides its time for his paid leave and does something daft quick.