Topic: The Racist Russian Fanciers Party

[SP]

It depends how you define standards Jim. Public school and a university education are just as likely to be breeding grounds for right-wing racists as council estates. Probably even more likely.

Public school was the most racist and homophobic environment I have ever been in. Imagine being locked up with hundreds of embryonic Daily Mail readers. University I found completely different. But I concede that that could have been self selection. Universities are large enough that you can choose to associate with non-bigoted people.  I doubt that university is the breeding ground for bigots - the prejudice is already there by that time.


As to the BNP's correlation to racist attacks, it is unlikely to be a causal relationship - more likely that the same underlying cause drives both effects. In times of economic hardship, blaming "others" is a seductive easy narrative. BNP supports increases at such times, and overt racism increases. The BNP is a symptom rather than a cause.

[Oddball]

Yes there is - but it has not put him off - he realises they are in a minority - well they are for the moment I hope

I should think so mate. The more time that passes the more and more people realise what is right and proper.

Looking at Fiasco's post kind of sums up what I mean

Quite a few of the older folk in my family are wary of anybody who isn't from where we live locally, never mind people from another country and too often people of a different race. That poll made me think of the Jeremy Clarkson n-word controversy the other week (not to derail the thread into a Clarkson one). 36 percent of over 55's admitted to racial prejudice. How many of those people would cite 'being born in a certain era' as a reason or justification for their prejudice?

36% of over 55's. I should say when were 55 (16 and a bit years away for me) that percentage will drop. By how much I dont know. When our kids (not mine and yours I hasten to add before some RAWK smartarse comes along ) then that figure will have, this time, significantly have dropped again, and so on. I think there will always be some kind of racism, again as in Fiasco's post, depending on where you are born for example.

I say that I think the figure will drop drastically as there is so many different cultures/races mixing at schools now for example. When I was at school I can remember 2 black lads. When picking up my daughter from primary school a few years back, it was quite a multi cultural class, as Im sure others were. With more and more mixing with kids from other countries/cultures, then our children and our childrens children will see everyone for what they are, just normal human beings like them and you, me and the rest.

I hope ive worded the above correctly and nothing can be misread. Im not the best with words.

[redmark]

As to the BNP's correlation to racist attacks, it is unlikely to be a causal relationship - more likely that the same underlying cause drives both effects. In times of economic hardship, blaming "others" is a seductive easy narrative. BNP supports increases at such times, and overt racism increases. The BNP is a symptom rather than a cause.

Of course support for the BNP is a symptom, but they (and others) are I think a cause (literally, incitement) of increased actual violence. There are plenty of BNP members (some senior) who have been convicted of racially motivated violent offences, and evidence of the incidence of violent offences increasing in areas the BNP targeted for 'political' campaigning. It's slightly naive wishful thinking, I think, to suppose that racist/fascist rabble rousing has no effect in the immediate vicinity, and doesn't embolden the verbally abusive local racist thug to go a step further. They're not 'creating' racists or racist thoughts, but they do whip up fear, suspicion and anger against ethnic communities. In a number of documented cases, they commit acts of violence themselves. In others, those convicted of racist attacks were found to have attended BNP meetings or forums and been reading the 'literature'.

From a Human Rights Watch report into racially motivated violence in the UK in the 1990's:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d2PmadZOASYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Racist+Violence+in+the+United+Kingdom&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_eGFU7e7GajB7Ab51IDgDA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Racist%20Violence%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom&f=false

There is evidence that the BNP efforts to mobilize voters and activists does increase violence in ethnic communities. During the month of January 1994, following the first election victory of a BNP candidate, the number of reported racist incidents increased by 300 percent in that area compared to January 1993. Between 1991 and 1992, when the BNP established its headquarters in the Plumstead area of South East London, there was a 61 percent increase in the number of reported cases of racist violence as well as four racially motivated murders. The increase in this area took place at a time when violence in London was generally decreasing and there had been no reports of racist murders for many years.

[redmark]

So, is there more information? Were they all ethnic Indians asked? Were they all ethnic West Indian? Etc... etc....

Many people immediately assume the responders were all white and everyone who responded to being prejudice are probably BNP (now UKIP)  supporters when they see this kind of thing.
There are probably as many ethnic Pakistanis who are racially prejudice as there are black Britons or Irish.
I remember seeing an ethnic Indian woman in the UK say immigration to the UK should be stopped.
If she was white it would be seen by many as racist.

There's a link from the story to further information about the survey methodology, and even the data itself.

[CornerFlag]

Is it in bad taste to say that a vote for Frottage significantly increases the chances for a Dunblane-like event happening?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/24/nigel-Frottage-uk-gun-control-laws-relaxed

[CornerFlag]

Incidentially, I can't wait to be earning £221 a week so I can pay £68.40 tax.  Nothing like paying the same tax rate as Wayne Rooney or Yaya Touré.

Nor can I wait for them to bin off paternity leave, hack apart maternity leave, reduce holiday entitlement, lose the minimum wage, stop unfair dismissal tribunals, take away flexible working and sack off the working time directive when I'm earning that significantly reduced cash.

I also will enjoy the fact that, when I go to an NHS hospital I'll be operated on by people who work for companies that hold the contract because they're willing to do the work for less money that others and will be obsessed with cuts rather than the health of the patient.

I'll enjoy learning the difference about why I'm okay to have German neighbours and not Romanian ones too...

[TepidT2O]

Incidentially, I can't wait to be earning £221 a week so I can pay £68.40 tax.  Nothing like paying the same tax rate as Wayne Rooney or Yaya Touré.

Nor can I wait for them to bin off paternity leave, hack apart maternity leave, reduce holiday entitlement, lose the minimum wage, stop unfair dismissal tribunals, take away flexible working and sack off the working time directive when I'm earning that significantly reduced cash.

I also will enjoy the fact that, when I go to an NHS hospital I'll be operated on by people who work for companies that hold the contract because they're willing to do the work for less money that others and will be obsessed with cuts rather than the health of the patient.

I'll enjoy learning the difference about why I'm okay to have German neighbours and not Romanian ones too...

Ahh policies....

You weren't supposed to look at those.


They're abhorrent

[Mutton Geoff]

One UKIP guy elected for Yorkshire and Humberside has stated he will never attend any meetings or take his seat in the European Parliament  etc, so a couple of things come to mind, in that case i would expect the guy not to claim any salary for not doing his job. Also as he is the representative for a large area if he never goes to the Parliament, they have no voice at all is this fair, i would complain if i was them isnt it their democratic right to have a person supporting them in Parliamentary debates?

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

One UKIP guy elected for Yorkshire and Humberside has stated he will never attend any meetings or take his seat in the European Parliament  etc, so a couple of things come to mind, in that case i would expect the guy not to claim any salary for not doing his job. Also as he is the representative for a large area if he never goes to the Parliament, they have no voice at all is this fair, i would complain if i was them isnt it their democratic right to have a person supporting them in Parliamentary debates?

Sounds like a right prick.
So people elect him to be their representative at the european Parliament, and he decides not to go as some sort of lame protest against the EU? Can he even get away with that?

[Cochise]

Great article in the echo today about what Europe has done for Liverpool. Was nice to see.

You have a link to that please? Gonna post it in twitter. Can't believe 20,000+ people in Liverpool voted for these gobshites.

[CornerFlag]

You have a link to that please? Gonna post it in twitter. Can't believe 20,000+ people in Liverpool voted for these gobshites.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-european-union-ever-done-7175124

So what has the European Union ever done for Merseyside?

With the rise of UKIP securing three seats in the European Parliament, David Bartlett examine how our region has benefitted from the EU.


UKIP has just secured a record three seats in the European Parliament representing the North West.

The party rode a wave of Euro-scepticism and almost doubled the size of its vote from 261,740 in the 2009 poll to 481,932.

With so many switching their votes to the party, it seems an opportune moment to reflect on what the EU has done for Merseyside.

Our area has quite a lot to be grateful to the EU for, more than 2 billion euros in fact.

Given the current debate taking place about our relationship with Europe in the wake of David Cameron wielding his veto last week I thought it salient to remember how Merseyside has benefitted from the EU.

Been to a show at the arena? The EU helped pay for that. Caught a flight to Ibiza or Lanzarote from Liverpool John Lennon Airport? The EU helped pay for the airport's expansion.

In fact the EU has been involved in funding most of the major projects that have taken place across the region in the past decade and a half.

Walk through any town centre across Merseyside and you will be able to spot investments that were paid for with European funding.

The region's love affair with continental funding started in 1994 when £700m of funding was allocated under the Objective 1 programme. In 2000 another £928m followed. Between 2007 and 2013 the North West is sharing another £700m, and Europe is set to agree to £450m for Merseyside to be spent between 2014 and 2020.

Objective 1 contributed funds to more than 1,802 projects between 2000 and 2008 - that is a whole lot of things that might would not have happened without the EU.

The investment in Merseyside has seen the country move from one of the poorest areas in Europe into a "transition region". That means its GDP is between 75% and 90% of the EU average.

Cllr Flo Clucas, former deputy leader of Liverpool council and an expert on Europe, in 2009 said: "In 1994, something wonderful happened, we were given Objective 1 status.

"If we had not had it, my city would have gone into a decline and we would never have recovered."

In the same year Phil Woolas, former North West minister, predicted Merseyside's population would have plummeted by up to 20%.

"The big point of Objective 1 is actually what would it have been like if we had not got it," he said.

"My guess is that it would have been pretty disastrous, and Merseyside would not be in the position it is in today.

"The population would probably have been 10% to 20% less than it is.

"Investment would have probably been half what it is, and the city would have been written off. Because it lost confidence in the 1980s, people had lost confidence in it.

"Objective 1 has meant that we have been able to get money from right across the European Union to create a prosperous trading partner."

Critics of the EU will point out that the UK puts far more into the EU than it takes out.

But do you really think any UK government would have handed over quite so much money to regions like Merseyside to spend on its own priorities?

Though here's the original blog it appeared on, may be better to reference that too: http://blogs.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/dalestreetblues/2011/12/so-what-has-the-european-union.html

[Cochise]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-european-union-ever-done-7175124


Though here's the original blog it appeared on, may be better to reference that too: http://blogs.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/dalestreetblues/2011/12/so-what-has-the-european-union.html

Cheers mate.

[jillcwhomever]

That Echo article is a good one and to me highlights much of the advantage we've had from Europe in our area. The tragedy is a lot of people who voted for that shower of shite will not be aware of it. They will be going entirely on what is written in all the right wing newspapers who have never had a good thing to say on Europe. Because a lot of people these days are too lazy to actually learn facts for themselves. Instead they just believe every report in the Daily Mail about Europe being totally useless to any British interest.

So sadly people only get the negative they don't get the good points about Europe. I still believe it will be a massive mistake if we leave, and I shudder to think how it will affect areas like Merseyside.

[jameshay]

In the metro today the ukip mep who got elected in Scotland was reported saying that Scotland which needs more workers to contribute taxes shouldn't encourage immigration but should simply have more babies.

[CHOPPER]

In the metro today the ukip mep who got elected in Scotland was reported saying that Scotland which needs more workers to contribute taxes shouldn't encourage immigration but should simply have more babies.

Come and get them boys..........

[Elmo!]

In the metro today the ukip mep who got elected in Scotland was reported saying that Scotland which needs more workers to contribute taxes shouldn't encourage immigration but should simply have more babies.

This is the same MEP who thinks the UK should leave the EU but independence for Scotland is a bad idea because it will mean Scotland will be kicked out of the EU.

[CornerFlag]

In the metro today the ukip mep who got elected in Scotland was reported saying that Scotland which needs more workers to contribute taxes shouldn't encourage immigration but should simply have more babies.

Is that David Coburn?  Had one over on him on Twitter a few weeks ago, felt kinda smug if I'm honest!

[jameshay]

Is that David Coburn?  Had one over on him on Twitter a few weeks ago, felt kinda smug if I'm honest!

Aye . He's a total fucking riot.

[CornerFlag]

Aye . He's a total fucking riot.

Put it this way, me and another guy were pointing out what the SMB (Small & Medium Business) secretary had on their website about how such and such policy makes it impossible to employ people.  He just kept retweeting a picture talking about Labour's lies when no-one had brought Labour up and neither of us are Labour supporters.  He continually evaded the question, in the end resorting to answering our questions with questions of his own (about Labour).  He was, and I guess still is, a twonk of the highest magnitude.

[redmark]

UKIP expels homophobic councillor Dave Small
28 May 2014 Last updated at 23:09
A councillor has been expelled from UKIP amid allegations about racist and homophobic Facebook comments.

Dave Small was suspended after allegedly calling African migrants "scroungers" and Clare Balding and Sir Elton John "perverts".

He told BBC Hereford and Worcester he made the remarks a few years ago but stressed his views remained the same and he had no regrets.

UKIP MEP James Carver said his opinions did not reflect those of the party.

'Never apologise'

Mr Small admitted he is homophobic but claims he is not racist as he has "a lot of black friends".

"Eastern Europeans are everywhere - you can't move for them," he said.

"It's the same as in Redditch now, most of the bus drivers are from Poland and nearly all the taxi drivers are Pakistanis."

Asked why that was a problem, he replied: "because it's getting worse".

Mr Small, who was elected to Redditch Borough Council's Church Hill ward on Friday, said his views had been influenced by the ways his teachers spoke when he was at school.

He refused to apologise for what he had posted on Facebook and said he would not change a word of what he had written.

Mr Small said he would not resign as a councillor and was confident he would still get support.

Mr Carver confirmed Mr Small had been expelled after giving a "shocking interview" to the BBC.

A spokesman for the party said: "He has now been expelled for clearly bringing the party in to disrepute."

[JohnHobbes]

A spokesman for the party said: "He has now been expelled for clearly highlighting the party's disreputable views."

Altered to match what the spokesman actually meant.

[Zeb]

There's something beautiful about a party which condemns the lack of democratic accountability with unelected bodies demanding more peers to sit in the House of Lords.

[BUSHMILLS]

There's something beautiful about a party which condemns the lack of democratic accountability with unelected bodies demanding more peers to sit in the House of Lords.

You see, that's exactly the sort of hypocrisy that Labour should be highlighting.

It would be far more effective than fixating on a few no-mark local councillors with backward views about homosexuality.

[TravisBickle]

 We're so anti-establishment, now give us more peers.

[RojoLeón]

You see, that's exactly the sort of hypocrisy that Labour should be highlighting.

It would be far more effective than fixating on a few no-mark local councillors with backward views about homosexuality.

Defending UKIP again, I see   

[BUSHMILLS]

Defending UKIP again, I see   

No Roger, I'm calling them hypocrites (my use of the word 'hypocrisy' should have given you a clue there).

You're already getting your arse kicked in the climate change thread. Don't make a fool of yourself in here, too.

[RojoLeón]

No Roger, I'm calling them hypocrites (my use of the word 'hypocrisy' should have given you a clue there).

You're already getting your arse kicked in the climate change thread. Don't make a fool of yourself in here, too.

This from someone who can't provide a cogent argument beyond skeptic soundbites, and who tried to conflate belief in climate science with anti-American/anti-Israeli sentiment? 

 think I'm pretty confident you're talking out of your arse 

[BUSHMILLS]

This from someone who can't provide a cogent argument beyond skeptic soundbites, and who tried to conflate belief in climate science with anti-American/anti-Israeli sentiment? 

 think I'm pretty confident you're talking out of your arse 

Back off to bokoharamarethegoodguys.com with you 

[RojoLeón]

Back off to bokoharamarethegoodguys.com with you 

How utterly bizzare 

[Snail]

This sub-forum is bizarre.

[viteslesrouges]

How utterly bizzare 

But not totally unexpected. 

[Red Beret]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28729098

UKIP has defended one of its MEPs who allegedly advised prospective party candidates to learn from the speaking style of Adolf Hitler.

According to the Mail on Sunday, Bill Etheridge described the Nazi dictator as a "magnetic and forceful" performer who "achieved a great deal".

The West Midlands MEP spoke at a public speaking seminar at the Young Independence Conference in Birmingham.

UKIP said Mr Etheridge was discussing the style of great public speakers.

The newspaper says Mr Etheridge told the class: "Look back to the most magnetic and forceful public speaker possibly in history.

"When Hitler gave speeches, and many of the famous ones were at rallies, at the start he walks, back and forth, looked at people - there was a silence, he waited minutes just looking out at people, fixing them with his gaze.

"They were looking back and he would do it for a while. And then they were so desperate for him to start, when he started speaking they were hanging on his every word.

'I'm not saying direct copy - pick up little moments."

[Mutton Geoff]

The guy must think The gays have had a massive party to bring on Bertha.

[CornerFlag]

Doing a great job of weeding these racists from their party aren't they?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-28840210

UKIP MEP Janice Atkinson uses 'outrageous' term for Thai woman.

Comments made by a UKIP MEP about a Thai constituent have been described as outrageous by the woman's husband.

South East MEP Janice Atkinson described Fa Munday, a mobile food seller in Ramsgate, Kent, as a "ting tong from somewhere".

Her comments were recorded by BBC South East Today following an interview on Friday.

Vincent Munday, a UKIP supporter, said it was outrageous, rude and offensive. Ms Atkinson has issued an apology.

'Poor judgement'
The MEP said: "I deeply regret the words I used and am incredibly sorry.

"It was poor judgement and naivety on my part rather than words spoken with any malice.

"I am devastated that I have caused hurt and apologise profusely to both Mr and Mrs Munday."

She was interviewed by the BBC on Friday and had agreed to be filmed while she met local people and UKIP members in Ramsgate.

She wore a microphone and was aware she was being recorded.

Mr and Mrs Munday are both supporters of the party and have met Ms Atkinson at UKIP rallies.

Mrs Munday said: "I'm from Thailand. I'm married to an Englishman and now I'm British.

"No-one has ever spoken about me like that before."

'Stern talking to'
Mr Munday said "ting tong" in Thai meant that a person was mad and the comment had come as "a bit of shock".

"I don't think UKIP are a racist party, but that comment certainly wasn't the brightest thing I've ever heard," he said.

He said the MEP should be given a "stern talking to".

In a statement a UKIP spokesman said: "Janice has apologised for the words she used.

"UKIP in no way condones the use of language that may reflect prejudice or cause offence and we sincerely hope this matter can be resolved privately."

"A Ting Tong from somewhere", are you shitting me?

[gazzalfc]

This is the best way of dealing with UKIP. Just keep giving them rope and they will end up hanging themselves.

It worked for the BNP and it will eventually work on UKIP

[Red Beret]

[jaffod]

I'm assuming they are trying to reflect the public mood at the time. Whether you like it or not there has been a massive swing towards UKIP over the last couple of years and if there was a GE tomorrow they would probably poll as many votes as those other party's combined.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I'm assuming they are trying to reflect the public mood at the time. Whether you like it or not there has been a massive swing towards UKIP over the last couple of years and if there was a GE tomorrow they would probably poll as many votes as those other party's combined.

UK public in racist xenophobic knobhead shocker...

[King_doggerel]

how different are they from BNP?

[Millie]

how different are they from BNP?

You can hardly notice the difference