Author Topic: Islamism  (Read 198949 times)

Offline Libero

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1000 on: August 7, 2014, 05:07:47 pm »
Quote

Iraq Christians flee as Islamic State takes Qaraqosh
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28686998

This is Shockingly bad and makes me mad.  These are their home too.   :no

Terrible Stuff this, I mean it really does evoke many a memory of Palestinians being evicted by the Zionists, when the latter embarked on so-called "statehood" and expansion of territory, through terrorism.  :'(


Why is everybody going on about ISIS in Iraq and Syria and ignoring what's happening in Gaza..... ::)


Well, Xabi, You are right of course.  Both are terribly bad, and both topics do deserve to discussed openly and in a forthright manner - Without an islamophobic agenda permitting, of course.


To whoever:  I didn't mention "Jews" - I was talking about Zionism, and its unmistakable twin-like actions when compared to ISIS. 

It is frightening.  Zionism and ISIS are one and the same by their actions, minutia aside.  :wave


« Last Edit: August 7, 2014, 05:45:40 pm by Libero »

Offline SadRed

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1001 on: August 7, 2014, 06:21:35 pm »
I have absolutely no issue with everything you have just said Corkboy and in fact I agree with a lot of it, however what I don't agree with is the double standards on this thread compared to the other. I called up Libero immediately for making an inflammatory and offensive statement regarding Israelis in the same way that on this thread others have taken up people for ignorant Islamophobic posts, therefore my question why is the leniency afforded on this thread and not on the other.   

Agree with this completely. I see no difference to whats happening here to what was happening in the Palestine thread.


Quote
This thread is locked for the foreseeable future.

RAWK is a football forum and we have no need to host or moderate threads on subjects that fuck that up.

We will discuss this in the staff room and get back to you.

This is a perfectly acceptable position as long as it is applied consistently across the board, especially to do with racial, religious and political issues which are sensitive and controversial.

Offline nyctex

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1002 on: August 7, 2014, 06:22:37 pm »


It is frightening.  Zionism and ISIS are one and the same by their actions, minutia aside.  :wave




Does "minutia" have an alternate meaning I'm not aware of? 

Offline Libero

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1003 on: August 7, 2014, 06:37:48 pm »
Does "minutia" have an alternate meaning I'm not aware of? 

Who knows what you're not aware of lad!  :wave

Seem to remember quite a bit of terrorism for the sake of statehood from the Palestinians. Before and after the Declaration of Independence of Israel. But what fun are facts when you can just throw some rhetoric and kisses around.

No Nick, No kisses or rhetoric.  Just the facts lad!

With that out of the way, I partially do agree with you, there was terrorism on the part of the Palestinians, but it wasn't so much about statehood (unless you buy into the crap peddled by the 90% mainstream media controlled by six outlets, which in turn are controlled by an interesting bunch of people). 

No, it was about liberation from oppression.  For example, the African National Congress versus Apartheid South Africa, or perhaps like the Founding Fathers versus their British Colonial Masters. 

Terrorism to gain liberation from an oppressive force. 


See? Just the facts.


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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1004 on: August 7, 2014, 06:50:09 pm »
More on the Yazidi tragedy

"When IS fighters arrived in Sinjar, they said there was no place for us in the area and that we had to leave. But where can we go? .....It's 50C here and we're being bombarded indiscriminately....There are clashes going on between the Islamic State [IS] and the Yazidis. But we don't have weapons so what are we supposed to do?...We're hiding inside caves. We have nothing - no food and no water."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28687329
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Offline AA1122

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1005 on: August 7, 2014, 07:00:55 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28684671

Another profile of an IS fighter, a twenty year old British Eritrean from a Christian background, converts to Islam, and now he is fighting in Iraq and Syria - Why?

I can't believe his grievances are that strong against his 'enemies' to motivate this, yet, it's happening.

Seems to be a similar tale convert/revert goes back and follows a misguided interpretation of jihad as some sort of repentance.

People like this kid are now playing God over people in Iraq and Syria, deciding people's fate. We need to understand them to stop this happening. Makes me sick to think this kid could be killing innocent people and getting kicks out of it.
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Offline Broad Spectrum

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1006 on: August 7, 2014, 07:03:21 pm »
Seem to remember quite a bit of terrorism for the sake of statehood from the Palestinians. Before and after the Declaration of Independence of Israel. But what fun are facts when you can just throw some rhetoric and kisses around.

And what about the acts of guerrilla warfare carried out by Israeli forces against the British in the years running up to the eventual creation of the state Israel? Or the numerous activities carried out by Mossad over the past few decades...?

There is not much difference at all between ISIS and Zionists (after the Balfour declaration of 1917) when they turned their attentions from strategically purchasing land and alienating locals, to outright aggression to any non-Jews in those lands.

(Since read your last comment!)
« Last Edit: August 7, 2014, 07:04:54 pm by Broad Spectrum »

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1007 on: August 7, 2014, 07:11:17 pm »
...unless you buy into the crap peddled by the 90% mainstream media controlled by six outlets, which in turn are controlled by an interesting bunch of people).

Peddling conspiracy shite is a banning offence. In the context it's obvious what you mean and it's not acceptable on any level.

Pack it in or you're off

*Edit*

This is evidently what you mean:

http://www.rense.com/general44/sevenjewishamericans.htm
http://www.infowars.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america/

If Rense and Alex Jones are your fellow travellers you have no place on here.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2014, 07:25:47 pm by Alan_X »
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Offline XabiAlonsosBeard

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1008 on: August 7, 2014, 07:13:40 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28684671

Another profile of an IS fighter, a twenty year old British Eritrean from a Christian background, converts to Islam, and now he is fighting in Iraq and Syria - Why?

I can't believe his grievances are that strong against his 'enemies' to motivate this, yet, it's happening.

Seems to be a similar tale convert/revert goes back and follows a misguided interpretation of jihad as some sort of repentance.

People like this kid are now playing God over people in Iraq and Syria, deciding people's fate. We need to understand them to stop this happening. Makes me sick to think this kid could be killing innocent people and getting kicks out of it.

Without knowing the background of the man in question, the fact that he's from Eritrea could be telling. A repressive, brutal country which people are literally queuing up to get out of. Illegally, of course.

It's the modus operandi of radicalising groups like ISIS. Prey on the disenfranchised, the desperate and brainwash them.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people who helped him get out of Eritrea (more than likely to Sudan) were the people who radicalised him.
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Offline Libero

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1009 on: August 7, 2014, 07:26:38 pm »
Peddling conspiracy shite is a banning offence. In the context it's obvious what you mean and it's not acceptable on any level.

Pack it in or you're off


Alan, hang on a second mate!

The context I'm using is funding - and I'm not peddling any conspiracy or anything else. 

Business Insider ran the story on the media consolidation (will send PM the link if you want as proof) 

But fine, at your request I'll not reference it.

EDIT: never heard of rense, and I don't pay attention to that fat guy alex jones.  I was talking business insider.




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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1010 on: August 7, 2014, 07:33:14 pm »
Incorrect. Zionists came over and purchased lands to settle. This made them their lands, their home.

Look man, I get that you have an agenda, but your petulant and condescending way of speaking down to anyone who disagrees with you, regardless of how many years they spent living in the region or regardless of what their actual opinion might be is a massive turn off and kills every conversation and has killed another thread already.

All I've seen you add to conversations is arrogance, and since you basically a wum who won't leave, I should. Thanks.
This Zionist crap is just a way of passing off antisemitic arguments under a flag of convenience  IMO.
Anti Israeli government is a valid argument of course.

I find it odd that either is being used in a thread about Islamism however!
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1011 on: August 7, 2014, 08:02:29 pm »
Agree with this completely. I see no difference to whats happening here to what was happening in the Palestine thread.

I'm still not seeing it. What's the comparison?

Offline Libero

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1012 on: August 7, 2014, 08:04:23 pm »
This Zionist crap is just a way of passing off antisemitic arguments under a flag of convenience  IMO.

Please refrain from slandering critics of Zionism as anti-Semites, most of us don't want this thread to be locked because of such actions.

FYI:

There are many who claim that those who criticize the State of Israel are practicing anti-Semitism.

The term "anti-Semitism" means hatred of the practitioners of a specific religion - Judaism.

But this does not apply to the critics of the State of Israel - because they are criticizing a government and its policies, and a political philosophy (Zionism) - which are rights gaurenteed in our democratic system, and in the State of Israel itself, which it claims is also a democracy.

It is a mistake to label this criticism of Israel and the Zionist philosophy anti-Semitism because:

    1. Critics are not criticizing a religion, but a government;
    2. The policies being criticized are not the teachings of that religion, but are actually immoral according to that religion;
    3. There are many practitioners of that a religion who passionately oppose the policies of that government;
    4. The victims of the government policies being criticized are themselves - Semites.

Many of the supporters of Israel claim that there is a complete identity between the religion of Judaism and the government of Israel, and that this is the basis to the claim that criticism of that government is criticism of the Jewish religion and its followers. But this is a grave error because governments are completely different from religions. This is a dangerous and unnatural association because it is very important that we be able to criticize governments because of the way they affect the lives of people. For example, the people of the government of South Africa and members of the Ku Klux Klan considered themselves to be good Christians, yet no one labels their critics Christian-haters. And it is very important that we criticize the South African government and the Ku Klux Klan.

This is why two of the basic principles of democracy are free speech to criticize the government and also separation of church and state.

Very often, defenders of Israel don't even try to counter criticisms of Israel with facts or reason but instead just try to attack the accuser directly by labelling him/her anti-Semitic. Often people use such tactics when they cannot defend their position - they just attack the messenger.

This is another effort to censor free speech.

Source: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/websitematerials/intropages/disclaimer.htm


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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1013 on: August 7, 2014, 08:05:04 pm »
This Zionist crap is just a way of passing off antisemitic arguments under a flag of convenience  IMO.
Anti Israeli government is a valid argument of course.

I find it odd that either is being used in a thread about Islamism however!

I agree with you. But I don't find it odd. That's the nature of obsessions. Everything, everything, is reduced to them.

Any road there's a rumour, on twitter, that the Turkish airforce has been bombing ISIS positions this afternoon. Any truth?
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Offline SadRed

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1014 on: August 7, 2014, 08:08:57 pm »
I'm still not seeing it. What's the comparison?


Quote
This thread is locked for the foreseeable future.

RAWK is a football forum and we have no need to host or moderate threads on subjects that fuck that up.

We will discuss this in the staff room and get back to you.


Offline Libero

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1015 on: August 7, 2014, 08:12:19 pm »

Case in point:

Quote
Very often, defenders of Israel don't even try to counter criticisms of Israel with facts or reason but instead just try to attack the accuser directly by labelling him/her anti-Semitic. Often people use such tactics when they cannot defend their position - they just attack the messenger.


Regarding rumours of a turkish air-strike I've "heard" this also, and there are alliances being forged it in the region, including the Kurds of Syria being involved.

For now, the NY Times states:

Obama Weighs Airstrikes or Aid to Help Trapped Iraqis, Officials Say


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/middleeast/obama-weighs-military-strikes-to-aid-trapped-iraqis-officials-say.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Banner&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1


In his own words "it's a very fluid situation".  Goodness, how many decades was it that Iraq saw some semblance of stability and peace.

Mad world.




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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1016 on: August 7, 2014, 08:27:32 pm »

No, this was the post you agreed with. Now that I see it again, I really should have addressed my query to Euskadi.

I have absolutely no issue with everything you have just said Corkboy and in fact I agree with a lot of it, however what I don't agree with is the double standards on this thread compared to the other. I called up Libero immediately for making an inflammatory and offensive statement regarding Israelis in the same way that on this thread others have taken up people for ignorant Islamophobic posts, therefore my question why is the leniency afforded on this thread and not on the other.   

Where is the leniency on this thread? And where are the Islamophobe posts?

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1017 on: August 7, 2014, 08:28:21 pm »
Alan, hang on a second mate!

The context I'm using is funding - and I'm not peddling any conspiracy or anything else. 

Business Insider ran the story on the media consolidation (will send PM the link if you want as proof) 

But fine, at your request I'll not reference it.

EDIT: never heard of rense, and I don't pay attention to that fat guy alex jones.  I was talking business insider.


If you aren't aware of the way those sorts of stories are spun by the likes of Rense and Infowars you should really educate yourself. You may not be an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist but the 'interesting' group of people in italics is going to be read by anyone who is better educated in these things than you as a clear reference to Jewish World Domination.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

To a lot of people you come across as anti-semitic. 6 corporations control 90% of the media in America (not the World). That's true. But media is not the news - it includes movies, music radio and many other types of media that have little to do with forming public opinion on US foreign policy.  The fact that a lot of people at the top in the media is largely to do with the history of films and music in the US. In a country where anti-semitism was rife, entrepreneurial Jewisjh immigrants had limited opportunities. Music, theatre and eventually the movies were slightly seedy areas where Jews could flourish through talent alone.

In the early twentieth century, Sam Goldwyn, The Warner Brothers and Louis B Mayer created Hollywood and Paley, Sarnoff and Goldenson created the three major TV Networks (CBS, ABC and NBC). Jewish agents and artists were big in the music business and ran theatres. The fact that 80, 90 years on there are still many Jews at the head of media corporations is an accident of history and has nothing to do with this thread.

Can you drop the veiled references in italics as well. Either say what you mean or don't say anything.
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Offline SadRed

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1018 on: August 7, 2014, 08:37:00 pm »
No, this was the post you agreed with. Now that I see it again, I really should have addressed my query to Euskadi.

Fair enough

Quote
Where is the leniency on this thread? And where are the Islamophobe posts?

Do you think the other thread should have been closed?  For me the question is of consitency, not necessarily of Islamophobia.

Offline SadRed

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1019 on: August 7, 2014, 08:46:54 pm »
Although I will add this:

I certainly do think that there are remarks on the thread that I believe are Islamophobic. There is unquestionable outrage and disgrace as the way ISIS and a lot of Islamist groups operate. They are terrible bunch of people no doubt. But there is a subtle but consistent attempt here to link violence to Islam/Muslims which I think is unfair. This is only my opinion and I may be wrong, but this is how I see it quite clearly. And I think this is really unfair. There is a clear divide of people who post here and are forthright in their condemnation of Islamic terrorism (and rightly so) but will not do so in other cases, which makes me question the motives a little bit.

I will only add that no such attempt was made in the other thread, which was consistent in its criticism of Israel, not Jews. And no attempt was made to link it to the religion of Judaism. Yet it was bordering on getting there with some posts, and therefore it was closed. I have no problem with that, I dont see the same response from mods here which is what frustrates me.

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1020 on: August 7, 2014, 08:52:04 pm »
Do you think the other thread should have been closed?  For me the question is of consitency, not necessarily of Islamophobia.

I don't have a view on that. The Mods do what they do, I rarely stick my nose in. I still don't see the comparison between this thread and that. The Israel/Palestine thing is fairly raw geopolitics and concerns a specific flashpoint. This thread is about fuckwits inspired by a particular religion, globally. I am aware that certain posters have alleged that they have been offended on this thread, possibly even by me. That doesn't mean they're right, or somehow immune from offence.

If you're suggesting that this thread is open because the "victims" are Muslim, while the Gaza thread got locked because those "victims" weren't, well I have yet to see any evidence of that. And if that's not what you're suggesting, well then I'm lost.

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1021 on: August 7, 2014, 08:53:30 pm »
Although I will add this:

I certainly do think that there are remarks on the thread that I believe are Islamophobic. There is unquestionable outrage and disgrace as the way ISIS and a lot of Islamist groups operate. They are terrible bunch of people no doubt. But there is a subtle but consistent attempt here to link violence to Islam/Muslims which I think is unfair. This is only my opinion and I may be wrong, but this is how I see it quite clearly. And I think this is really unfair. There is a clear divide of people who post here and are forthright in their condemnation of Islamic terrorism (and rightly so) but will not do so in other cases, which makes me question the motives a little bit.

I will only add that no such attempt was made in the other thread, which was consistent in its criticism of Israel, not Jews. And no attempt was made to link it to the religion of Judaism. Yet it was bordering on getting there with some posts, and therefore it was closed. I have no problem with that, I dont see the same response from mods here which is what frustrates me.

The Israelis aren't bombing Gaza in the name of Abraham.

Offline Euskadi

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1022 on: August 7, 2014, 09:08:12 pm »
No, this was the post you agreed with. Now that I see it again, I really should have addressed my query to Euskadi.

Where is the leniency on this thread? And where are the Islamophobe posts?

My mistake on the Islamophobic stuff, must have either been another thread or another forum I am active on, I will edit my earlier post accordingly and explained myself better.

I am not going to derail this thread further, I will take up my issues and queries with the appropriate members of the forum.
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Offline Libero

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1023 on: August 7, 2014, 09:08:22 pm »
If you aren't aware of the way those sorts of stories are spun by the likes of Rense and Infowars you should really educate yourself. You may not be an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist but the 'interesting' group of people in italics is going to be read by anyone who is better educated in these things than you as a clear reference to Jewish World Domination.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

To a lot of people you come across as anti-semitic. 6 corporations control 90% of the media in America (not the World). That's true. But media is not the news - it includes movies, music radio and many other types of media that have little to do with forming public opinion on US foreign policy.  The fact that a lot of people at the top in the media is largely to do with the history of films and music in the US. In a country where anti-semitism was rife, entrepreneurial Jewisjh immigrants had limited opportunities. Music, theatre and eventually the movies were slightly seedy areas where Jews could flourish through talent alone.

In the early twentieth century, Sam Goldwyn, The Warner Brothers and Louis B Mayer created Hollywood and Paley, Sarnoff and Goldenson created the three major TV Networks (CBS, ABC and NBC). Jewish agents and artists were big in the music business and ran theatres. The fact that 80, 90 years on there are still many Jews at the head of media corporations is an accident of history and has nothing to do with this thread.

Can you drop the veiled references in italics as well. Either say what you mean or don't say anything.


Well Al,

I've heard of Alex Jones (infowars chap), but to me he's a nut.  Don't know rense, so thanks for the heads up.

However, I do take objection to this "To a lot of people you come across as anti-semitic" remark.

Who are my accusers? What constitutes a lot of people? What are their charges? besides coming across in way that they don't like. 

All of this from a single post (that I later PMed to you and explained that I'm happy to show you Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg citations on the Business insider story?) - hard to believe.

Just trying to understand where tarring me with the stain of an anti-Semite comes from. 

Especially since the admins did state that they come down hard on this sort of behavior.




Also, bumping my earlier request: 

If  you are anyone else for that matter, are interested, then let me have your take on this short clip regarding  the Palestinian / Israeli situation, and by all means give me your feedback:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y58njT2oXfE

It will come as no surprise to some that I'm an advocate of "Jewish Voices for Peace", so tell me your honest views on this, and which parts you agree / disagree with,

Cheers!











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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1024 on: August 7, 2014, 09:13:16 pm »
The Israelis aren't bombing Gaza in the name of Abraham.

I am astonished. You seem a very knoweledgable guy in a lot of matters with Islamic extremism but you are blatantly ignorant about how racist and religious Israeli government is. This is precisely what I was talking about.

If you wished to know about what people in Israeli government think of palestinians and their beliefs about god given right to rule in Israel, you could find out. But evidently you dont, so me searching for it will not change a thing.

In any case, thats not the point of this thread. What is more shocking is you seem to believe its okay to not discuss people being bombed for a political conflict, but you wish to keep you right to talk about it when its a matter of religious extremism? Whats the agenda here?

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1025 on: August 7, 2014, 09:16:00 pm »
I'm not an expert on Islam or the Quran by any means, but I think some of it stems from the perception, whether right or wrong, that it is a violent book. Ergo, if the guiding book of the religion is violent, the violence is justified by the religion.

I'm guessing, don't throw things at me please.

Edit: Corkboy said it far more eloquently.

I wont blame you if thats what you think, especially after reading this thread. Do me a favour and please open the Old Testament or Mahabharata will you?

Offline Euskadi

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1026 on: August 7, 2014, 09:18:01 pm »
I'm not an expert on Islam or the Quran by any means, but I think some of it stems from the perception, whether right or wrong, that it is a violent book. Ergo, if the guiding book of the religion is violent, the violence is justified by the religion.

I'm guessing, don't throw things at me please.

Edit: Corkboy said it far more eloquently.

Nicky, I am no expert either but what I can say is that if people interpreted the Old Testament word for word we would be in a lot of trouble. All you have to do is read about the total nut jobs in America (and maybe other parts of the world) called the Christian Zionists, probably some of the biggest anti-Semites out there, because of some scripture of Armageddon for Jews in the Bible. It is scary stuff, though unlike ISIS who engage in terrorist activity (mass murder and other wonderful things alike) these believe that by putting all the Jews in one place, they will be destroyed by God and a 100,000 will be saved who will convert to Christianity. What a relief that the Christian Zionists belief that their imaginary friend is the one who is going to do the killing...
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but he's a blue nose, so he's a c*nt
 
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Online Alan_X

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1027 on: August 7, 2014, 09:22:16 pm »
I will only add that no such attempt was made in the other thread, which was consistent in its criticism of Israel, not Jews. And no attempt was made to link it to the religion of Judaism. Yet it was bordering on getting there with some posts, and therefore it was closed. I have no problem with that, I dont see the same response from mods here which is what frustrates me.

Where does it say that's the reason the thread was locked? Some allegations were made bia the report to mod button and PM and we're deciding how to deal with them. It will hopefully get opened again in due course. Unfortunately, there are some subjects that people are simply incapable of discussing rationally. You'll notice that we have given up on Rangers/Celtic threads because all the usual sectarian bollocks always comes out. We have given up discussing conspiracy theories because the people who believe them are by definition, incapable of rational thought.

The history of the middle east is fascinating and complex.  Unfortunately the debate is often dominated by hectoring, loud-mouthed zealots on both sides. The reason it is so intractable is that there is no black or white. There is no simple answer. It's just one of many conflicts that have justice on both sides.

And on a practical level, if you're unhappy or frustrated with the moderation of a thread use the report to mod button. We are not omniscient and we are not mind readers.
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Offline Euskadi

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1028 on: August 7, 2014, 09:23:46 pm »
Where does it say that's the reason the thread was locked? Some allegations were made bia the report to mod button and PM and we're deciding how to deal with them. It will hopefully get opened again in due course. Unfortunately, there are some subjects that people are simply incapable of discussing rationally. You'll notice that we have given up on Rangers/Celtic threads because all the usual sectarian bollocks always comes out. We have given up discussing conspiracy theories because the people who believe them are by definition, incapable of rational thought.

The history of the middle east is fascinating and complex.  Unfortunately the debate is often dominated by hectoring, loud-mouthed zealots on both sides. The reason it is so intractable is that there is no black or white. There is no simple answer. It's just one of many conflicts that have justice on both sides.

And on a practical level, if you're unhappy or frustrated with the moderation of a thread use the report to mod button. We are not omniscient and we are not mind readers.

Fair enough point taken, will not be derailing this thread any further and I have corrected my earlier posts.
;D  Mate of mine and me are the same, everyone swears we are brothers when we're out. He calls me slaphead, I call him slaphead, so when I see him I go "slap" and he replies "slap. People be looking and thinking what the f**k are these 2 on  ;D
but he's a blue nose, so he's a c*nt
 
as per "Slaphead" on the 10th May 2018

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1029 on: August 7, 2014, 09:28:13 pm »
Thanks...
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
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Offline Euskadi

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1030 on: August 7, 2014, 09:31:14 pm »
Gents, I didn't say that's how I think. I said that's it's the prevalent perception of Islam and the Quran. At least where I am.

Nicky, if it came across that way my mistake. I was just trying to point out that neither of the monotheistic religions is particularly peaceful and cited the example of the Christian Zionist nut jobs. Hope that clarifies what I posted earlier.
;D  Mate of mine and me are the same, everyone swears we are brothers when we're out. He calls me slaphead, I call him slaphead, so when I see him I go "slap" and he replies "slap. People be looking and thinking what the f**k are these 2 on  ;D
but he's a blue nose, so he's a c*nt
 
as per "Slaphead" on the 10th May 2018

Offline Broad Spectrum

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1031 on: August 7, 2014, 09:32:20 pm »
The Israelis aren't bombing Gaza in the name of Abraham.

And why did they chose to populate the 'Land of Zion', or what we know today as the state of Israel? Because this is believed to be the only land where Jews, as a collective, can prepare for the coming of the Messiah. If that isn't religious based then I don't know what is.

Now I appreciate the fact that Israeli's are definitely more Westernised than many of the Arab's of the Middle-East, and they may come across as more cultured and civilised than these hard-line Jihadists. But don't think Religion doesn't have a massive part to play in their discriminatory views of non-Jews throughout that region.

Offline SadRed

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1032 on: August 7, 2014, 09:44:36 pm »
Where does it say that's the reason the thread was locked? Some allegations were made bia the report to mod button and PM and we're deciding how to deal with them. It will hopefully get opened again in due course. Unfortunately, there are some subjects that people are simply incapable of discussing rationally. You'll notice that we have given up on Rangers/Celtic threads because all the usual sectarian bollocks always comes out. We have given up discussing conspiracy theories because the people who believe them are by definition, incapable of rational thought.

The history of the middle east is fascinating and complex.  Unfortunately the debate is often dominated by hectoring, loud-mouthed zealots on both sides. The reason it is so intractable is that there is no black or white. There is no simple answer. It's just one of many conflicts that have justice on both sides.

And on a practical level, if you're unhappy or frustrated with the moderation of a thread use the report to mod button. We are not omniscient and we are not mind readers.

I dont expect you to be a mind reader etc. The reason you have given on the thread is very vague. One can argue the same is happening in this thread. But I am not interested in reporting anyone or anything, neither do I wish this to be locked. I am disappointed the Palestine thread was closed, because I believe in condemning what is happening in Gaza. Taking that away is disappointing, especially as that story has been traditionally misrepresented in the media.

But you have told us whats going on, so I hope it can be opened again. That is all.

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1033 on: August 7, 2014, 09:46:29 pm »
Gents, I didn't say that's how I think. I said that's it's the prevalent perception of Islam and the Quran. At least where I am.

I understand mate. And one cannot blame you. Islamists are wreaking havoc in the world. So its natural people think this.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1034 on: August 7, 2014, 09:46:45 pm »
I am astonished. You seem a very knoweledgable guy in a lot of matters with Islamic extremism but you are blatantly ignorant about how racist and religious Israeli government is. This is precisely what I was talking about.

Racist, sure, that's a charge with some heft behind it, and yes, they are religious but you don't hear them blaring it all over the shop, and they don't kill in the name of their god. Do they? I don't hear it. Perhaps they have better PR but they always talk about secular things like, you know, people and nations. The Islamists are always desperately keen to let everyone know how crucial their religion is to them and their acts. Incidentally, lest there be any doubt, I am not the one who introduced the comparison between Israelis and Islamists.

Quote
In any case, thats not the point of this thread. What is more shocking is you seem to believe its okay to not discuss people being bombed for a political conflict

Now you're just making stuff up. Not only have I expressed no view on that thread lock, I actually said "I don't have a view on that." It's up to the Mods, that thread was a firefight. And no, I don't think it was to protect Israeli sensibilities.

Quote
but you wish to keep you right to talk about it when its a matter of religious extremism? Whats the agenda here?

My agenda on this thread, now that you mention it, has to been to widen the parameters of Yorky's original topic to include the barbaric practices uniquely associated with Islam which enjoy such troublingly widespread acceptance in parts of the world. Not like I've been hiding it.

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1035 on: August 7, 2014, 09:54:15 pm »
I don't have a view on that. The Mods do what they do, I rarely stick my nose in. I still don't see the comparison between this thread and that. The Israel/Palestine thing is fairly raw geopolitics and concerns a specific flashpoint. This thread is about fuckwits inspired by a particular religion, globally. I am aware that certain posters have alleged that they have been offended on this thread, possibly even by me. That doesn't mean they're right, or somehow immune from offence.

If you're suggesting that this thread is open because the "victims" are Muslim, while the Gaza thread got locked because those "victims" weren't, well I have yet to see any evidence of that. And if that's not what you're suggesting, well then I'm lost.

I have never suggested anything of this sort. I think you are smart enough to get my drift here, so there is really no point repeating.

On offending people - please feel to criticize - Islam, Muslims or anything else you wish to - till you are satisfied. I have no problem with that, the internet is awash with such things. In any case, I rarely post on RAWK I only read peoples comments. I dont have the desire to offend, nor do I get pleasure in it. I only posted in Palestine thread because I was frustrated at imbecile politicians to take Israel to task when people were dying. With ISIS everyone is on the same page, I hope and pray there is peace again.

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1036 on: August 7, 2014, 09:58:20 pm »
Obviously not every Christian is a member of the WBC and not ever Jew wants to eradicate the Goyim.

I'm going to guess that public opinion on the Gaza situation is almost perfectly inverted between the US and pretty every other western nation, and further, that US polls show far more support for Israel among Republicans who are almost uniformly uber Christian. I find that very weird, to see slack jawed imbeciles like Sarah Palin and Louis Gohmert queuing up at the Wailing Wall. Don't they think the Jews killed Jesus?

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1037 on: August 7, 2014, 09:58:47 pm »
Racist, sure, that's a charge with some heft behind it, and yes, they are religious but you don't hear them blaring it all over the shop, and they don't kill in the name of their god. Do they? I don't hear it. Perhaps they have better PR but they always talk about secular things like, you know, people and nations. The Islamists are always desperately keen to let everyone know how crucial their religion is to them and their acts. Incidentally, lest there be any doubt, I am not the one who introduced the comparison between Israelis and Islamists.

Now you're just making stuff up. Not only have I expressed no view on that thread lock, I actually said "I don't have a view on that." It's up to the Mods, that thread was a firefight. And no, I don't think it was to protect Israeli sensibilities.

My agenda on this thread, now that you mention it, has to been to widen the parameters of Yorky's original topic to include the barbaric practices uniquely associated with Islam which enjoy such troublingly widespread acceptance in parts of the world. Not like I've been hiding it.

I have made my points clear enough to you and whoever reads my previous posts it should be clear. Your particular interest in Islamic barbaric practices over any other barbaric practices is amusing, but hey you are free to have your opinions. There is no point really repeating anything.

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1038 on: August 7, 2014, 10:12:23 pm »
Your particular interest in Islamic barbaric practices over any other barbaric practices is amusing, but hey you are free to have your opinions. There is no point really repeating anything.

And yet we are doomed nonetheless to do so.

Most terrorism in the world right now is Islamist. It used to be the IRA or the Basques or various European cryptofascist outfits. Perhaps in the future it will be South American or Russian, I don't know. But some posters on here think it is out of bounds to point out the association, like we should preface every report of terror with a disclaimer in favour of the peaceful nature of the religion in question. Everyone knows most normal Muslim people are just that, normal people. Not terrorists. It's not difficult. There still remains the thorny question of how a supposedly peaceful religion can spawn such horrible shit.

It's somewhat different when you have whole societies, whole countries who adhere to some disgusting notions about conduct and behaviour, and again it's all uniquely associated with Islam. You don't get the death penalty for adultery or apostasy anywhere but Muslim nations, nor widespread acceptance for those things anywhere but among Muslims. Again, it may not be so in the future. Many western nations had some similar notions not long ago, if not quite the same severity of punishments (add another century or two back for that). Progress is possible but not if talking about it is verboten.

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Re: Islamism
« Reply #1039 on: August 7, 2014, 10:16:08 pm »
And yet we are doomed nonetheless to do so.

Most terrorism in the world right now is Islamist. It used to be the IRA or the Basques or various European cryptofascist outfits. Perhaps in the future it will be South American or Russian, I don't know. But some posters on here think it is out of bounds to point out the association, like we should preface every report of terror with a disclaimer in favour of the peaceful nature of the religion in question. Everyone knows most normal Muslim people are just that, normal people. Not terrorists. It's not difficult. There still remains the thorny question of how a supposedly peaceful religion can spawn such horrible shit.

It's somewhat different when you have whole societies, whole countries who adhere to some disgusting notions about conduct and behaviour, and again it's all uniquely associated with Islam. You don't get the death penalty for adultery or apostasy anywhere but Muslim nations, nor widespread acceptance for those things anywhere but among Muslims. Again, it may not be so in the future. Many western nations had some similar notions not long ago, if not quite the same severity of punishments (add another century or two back for that). Progress is possible but not if talking about it is verboten.
Progress will come form better standards of living in these countries.

Rights, responsibilities, a social security network.

It will lead to a more secular society and fewer issues, the first world should be giving foreign aid to ensure this happens, it's owe it in the long term, but I suspect people are too selfish.

A better class of murdering bastard back in the day eh? (Joke!)
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